The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 127 - AVS Forum
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post #3781 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 03:29 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you have already ruled out the issue being a result of Dyn Volume being enabled, then the next step would be a soft reset by unplugging the unit for 10 minutes. Beyond that if still no joy, a microprocessor reset after using Web Control to SAVE the config file to a PC.
Ok I have done the unplugging and leaving it for 10-15 minutes. Haven't seen the audio level dropping issue after that till now, will wait to see if it returns. Thanks.
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post #3782 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 03:30 PM
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YouTube app will stream video to another device as well.

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post #3783 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 03:36 PM
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Hdmi handshake issues involve audio and video dropouts. If your issue is with cable TV only, check a few different channels. I've had customers that have issues on certain channels at certain times. It's a cable signal issue.

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post #3784 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 04:01 PM
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Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

To use video you must use another device like Blu ray player, smart tv.

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Not a "problem", it's by design. Apple doesn't license Airplay video streaming to any non-Apple devices, so in this case you'd need an Apple TV.

Thanks for the clarification.
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post #3785 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 05:43 PM
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Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Thanks a bunch for posting about this deal, neutro!!!

Glad I was not the only one here jumping on the occasion. I was kind of disappointed browsing FutureShop's Black Friday flyer, but decided to check on the web site anyway this morning.

Bizarrely, FutureShop's price watch feature totally failed me on this. Glad I double-checked.
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If I could, I'd give you a big bear-hug for sure!!! Thanks, man! biggrin.gif

I think the occasion warrants a little bromance indeed biggrin.gif
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I had a few nervous moments there. I had texted the missus to get her approval, and wasn't getting a response. The inventory number on the webpage, already in single digits, was falling, so I made a panicked phone-call.

Oh well, sure FutureShop has stock dedicated to online sales, but failing that, there's also the in-store stock. I'm pretty sure there will still be X4000 left in Canada up until the end of that sale (that price is valid up until Dec 5).
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Late last year, and earlier this year, I upgraded speakers and subwoofer. I am SO looking forward to hearing how Audyssey XT32 will improve the sound in my room, as compared to XT.

I'm already on XT32 and it sounds quite good. One of my friend has an XT receiver and his sub's frequency response is notably bumpier than mine; though since that was not in the same room it's hard to make definitive comparisons.

I for one am curious to see how SubEQ HT will adjust my dual subs, compared to the manual tweaks I've done myself. (Yeah the 818 has XT32 but *not* SubEQ HT).
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Also, I think my 3808CI should still be worth a few bucks, so my incremental cost will be even lower once I sell it.

I'll sell my 818 to a good friend who already bought most of my older gear already. Can't gouge him on this smile.gif However coming from an entry-level Pioneer, I'm sure he will be ecstatic about the 818.

The 818 is built like a tank, at almost 20 lbs heavier than the X4000. I really like how it looks. But while it excels at the basic stuff (e.g. amplifying signals) clearly the network side of things is a bit shaky. It turns out that I have a small room and powerful subs crossed high (100 Hz), so my AVR usage is not very demanding anyway. I'll happily trade 20 lbs of steel and copper for a more functional network stack right now.

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post #3786 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 06:00 PM
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I just purchased the x4000 and am loving it. Handles all my connections and am now working on setting up the sound. I read through as much of this thread as I could so far and the Audyssey thread but I can't seem to answer a couple of questions. I am not new to Audyssey and I think I asked this before but can not remember so I was wondering if someone on here could help me out.

Audyssey crossover settings
I read you should not lower these but here are my settings
L&R is 150
C is 120
Sur are 200
Sub is 120.

My question is since the L&R are at 150 and the sub is at 120 will there be missing sound/bass?

Surround parameters
Cinema EQ
Dynamic Compression
Low Frequency Effects

do these not matter when getting a digital feed or using audyssey? seems like these are off by default and redundant from what audyssey does

thanks for the help and I am sorry if I failed at searching to find this info. I tried.
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post #3787 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 06:12 PM
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Originally Posted by outlanderbz View Post

I just purchased the x4000 and am loving it. Handles all my connections and am now working on setting up the sound. I read through as much of this thread as I could so far and the Audyssey thread but I can't seem to answer a couple of questions. I am not new to Audyssey and I think I asked this before but can not remember so I was wondering if someone on here could help me out.

Audyssey crossover settings
I read you should not lower these but here are my settings
L&R is 150
C is 120
Sur are 200
Sub is 120.

My question is since the L&R are at 150 and the sub is at 120 will there be missing sound/bass?

Surround parameters
Cinema EQ
Dynamic Compression
Low Frequency Effects

do these not matter when getting a digital feed or using audyssey? seems like these are off by default and redundant from what audyssey does

thanks for the help and I am sorry if I failed at searching to find this info. I tried.

1) The sub setting of 120 is actually the LFE setting. The LFE channel can have content up to 120hz therefore 120hz is the correct setting, and why it is set at default. Any lower setting would mean that you would throw away any info in the LFE channel above the chosen setting.

2) Cinema EQ takes a bit of treble out of the mix, but Audyssey Reference Curve is supposed to already take care of that so most Audyssey users leave CEQ OFF. Dynamic Compression is a crude volume leveling setting, but Audyssey Dynamic Volume works better if you like compression, so again, most of us leave it OFF. LFE setting at 0db means that you will send 100% of the LFE signal that is on the sound track to the sub (or large R/L if no sub is used). Any other setting means that the LFE signal that is sent is accentuated by the chosen setting therefore meaning a lower LFE output.

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post #3788 of 8707 Old 11-29-2013, 11:38 PM
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Pulled the trigger on a clearance x1000 to start my first HT system. biggrin.gif All I need now are some good speakers on Cyber Monday.

Are there any recommended "first use checks" to make sure everything in the receiver is working as it should?
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post #3789 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 02:11 AM
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Tried to watch a movie last night, using HTPC and VLC. Thing is, movie was unusually quiet. Tried to add some volume, but receives just maxed out at 74. And on the display, it showed something like "offset -31". What is going on? Why can't I go higher than 74? What is this offset (never seen)?

Decoding was DTS. Amp is X-1000 and speakers are MA BX-2 + sub. Volume limit is turned off. S/PDIF is on, Audio output module is default.

Other movies (also DTS) have rocked the house.

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post #3790 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 04:07 AM
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What was the volume on the HTPC? My guys is that it changed since the last time you listened to a movie. Also do you have Dynamic Volume on?

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post #3791 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 04:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

What was the volume on the HTPC? My guys is that it changed since the last time you listened to a movie. Also do you have Dynamic Volume on?
Volume was 100% (volume cannot be changed when using AMD High Definition Audio Output).
Dynamic Volume is off.
Watched another DTS clip (from Home Theater Demo Disc), and it blew my socks off @ 74. However, max allowed volume was 76 with this one. DTS limits volume?

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post #3792 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 04:48 AM
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Originally Posted by nexxest View Post

Tried to watch a movie last night, using HTPC and VLC. Thing is, movie was unusually quiet. Tried to add some volume, but receives just maxed out at 74. And on the display, it showed something like "offset -31". What is going on? Why can't I go higher than 74? What is this offset (never seen)?

Decoding was DTS. Amp is X-1000 and speakers are MA BX-2 + sub. Volume limit is turned off. S/PDIF is on, Audio output module is default.

Other movies (also DTS) have rocked the house.

This is the "Dialogue Normalization" offset (p. 155 OM) which is embedded into the audio track and can only be turned off using the Audio - Surround Paramater - Loudness Management setting to OFF when playing Dolby TrueHD. Normally this offset is either -4db or -7db, but can go as high as -31db.


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post #3793 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 04:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Glad I was not the only one here jumping on the occasion. I was kind of disappointed browsing FutureShop's Black Friday flyer, but decided to check on the web site anyway this morning.

Bizarrely, FutureShop's price watch feature totally failed me on this. Glad I double-checked.
I think the occasion warrants a little bromance indeed biggrin.gif
Oh well, sure FutureShop has stock dedicated to online sales, but failing that, there's also the in-store stock. I'm pretty sure there will still be X4000 left in Canada up until the end of that sale (that price is valid up until Dec 5).
I'm already on XT32 and it sounds quite good. One of my friend has an XT receiver and his sub's frequency response is notably bumpier than mine; though since that was not in the same room it's hard to make definitive comparisons.

I for one am curious to see how SubEQ HT will adjust my dual subs, compared to the manual tweaks I've done myself. (Yeah the 818 has XT32 but *not* SubEQ HT).

I had a price watch set up on the FS website for the X4000 as well, and I did not get a notification either.

The closest FS to me is still a one hour drive for me, so I was very happy to be able to purchase online, especially since the shipping was free!

I had previously considered the 818 as well, as it can be found for even less than the X4000, but I decided to stick with Denon because my 3808 has served me flawlessly for the 5+ years that I've owned it.

I also wanted the Sub EQ HT and LFC features. I only have one sub right now, but I hope to add a second PSA XS30 sometime down the road.

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post #3794 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 05:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

This is the "Dialogue Normalization" offset (p. 155 OM) which is embedded into the audio track and can only be turned off using the Audio - Surround Paramater - Loudness Management setting to OFF when playing Dolby TrueHD. Normally this offset is either -4db or -7db, but can go as high as -31db.
Good to know. However, during that film, I have these options there:
Cinema EQ OFF
Low Frequency 0dB

No Loudness Management. Audio is A/52 over S/PDIF, DTS Surround.

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post #3795 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 05:49 AM
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^^
Loudness Management only available with Dolby TrueHD.

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post #3796 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 07:46 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Loudness Management only available with Dolby TrueHD.
I see. Tried another movie. It's Dolby Digital 5.1. And volume won't go over 63. Needless to say, I can barely hear the movie. No sign of loudness option anywhere. Do I have to use Multichannel PCM to enjoy the movie?

Edit: found out what's wrong. I have 4.4 speaker setup. When I added center channel in the menu (no real speaker connected), I could go till 85. How weird is that!

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post #3797 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 08:45 AM
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I have an X4000, I have CM340SE mains and center and dual Rythmik LVR12 subs. I have them BOTH at the front of the room, and the mains are on top of them. This is obviously setup for convenience/aestheitcs for now, but I may crawl around and place them for sound. At any rate, I have them hooked up to SUB1 and SUB2 on the AVR. I noticed that one sub is about half the volume of the other when I look them in the settings after running Audyssey. Is this normal? The subs themselves are both set at 50% volume on their knobs.
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post #3798 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

I have an X4000, I have CM340SE mains and center and dual Rythmik LVR12 subs. I have them BOTH at the front of the room, and the mains are on top of them. This is obviously setup for convenience/aestheitcs for now, but I may crawl around and place them for sound. At any rate, I have them hooked up to SUB1 and SUB2 on the AVR. I noticed that one sub is about half the volume of the other when I look them in the settings after running Audyssey. Is this normal? The subs themselves are both set at 50% volume on their knobs.
Exactly what are the settings? If either of them is at -12dB (or +12dB), then Audyssey is pegged and comparing the settings is meaningless. (i.e. you need to turn down the volume control knob of any sub that's at -12dB and recalibrate.) Since you haven't tried to optimize the subwoofer placement, the shape of your room might be causing some of your measurements to be in peaks or nulls for some bass frequencies, which can cause audio anomalies.

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post #3799 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 10:32 AM
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Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

I had a price watch set up on the FS website for the X4000 as well, and I did not get a notification either.

I think FS's price watch feature is broken.
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The closest FS to me is still a one hour drive for me, so I was very happy to be able to purchase online, especially since the shipping was free!

I thought FS was the most common commerce in Canada after Tim Horton's biggrin.gif There are 3 FutureShops in a 20-min drive radius here. Still got mine online since I don't want to go to the mall at this time of the year... tongue.gif
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I also wanted the Sub EQ HT and LFC features. I only have one sub right now, but I hope to add a second PSA XS30 sometime down the road.

Wow with two XS30's you'll certainly be in business biggrin.gif

Not sure if I'd trust Audyssey LFC though. Looks too much like a compromise to me rolleyes.gif

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post #3800 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 10:57 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nexxest View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Loudness Management only available with Dolby TrueHD.
I see. Tried another movie. It's Dolby Digital 5.1. And volume won't go over 63. Needless to say, I can barely hear the movie. No sign of loudness option anywhere. Do I have to use Multichannel PCM to enjoy the movie?

Edit: found out what's wrong. I have 4.4 speaker setup. When I added center channel in the menu (no real speaker connected), I could go till 85. How weird is that!

Ah. Many multich digital decodes force compression with no center channel connected. That must be it.

The other track having a 31db offset sounds like a bug. Perhaps some weirdness with VLC or the particular encode.

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post #3801 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 10:59 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Not sure if I'd trust Audyssey LFC though. Looks too much like a compromise to me rolleyes.gif

What do you mean by "not trust" it? It's a feature which solves a specific problem -- excess bass transmitting through walls -- and if you don't need it you don't use it. What does trust have to do with it?

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post #3802 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 11:41 AM
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Here is what I need, help me figure out how and which receiver will get this done...

1)Great Room 5.1 audio/video
2) Master Bedroom TV with Soundbar
3) Lanai 2 channel audio with a projector.

Sources include Satellite, BluRay and AVR network (Pandora, MediaServer, Ipod, SiriusXM)

I'll never need different video in any of these areas but I do need all sources available including network functionality.

Master Bedroom will only need to mirror great room audio and video sources. (think monitor 2 with audio)

Lanai needs full multi-zone audio capabilities but all projector source material will mirror Great room (zone 1)


It would be great if I could run an HDMI cable out of an AV receiver straight to the master bedroom TV but the global limitation of HDMI audio out (AVR or TV) has me looking to you for help with a solution.

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #3803 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 11:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

I have an X4000, I have CM340SE mains and center and dual Rythmik LVR12 subs. I have them BOTH at the front of the room, and the mains are on top of them. This is obviously setup for convenience/aestheitcs for now, but I may crawl around and place them for sound. At any rate, I have them hooked up to SUB1 and SUB2 on the AVR. I noticed that one sub is about half the volume of the other when I look them in the settings after running Audyssey. Is this normal? The subs themselves are both set at 50% volume on their knobs.

My first guess without knowing much about the room setup is that the subs aren't symmetrically placed. Even if they are symmetric against the front wall if there is a door or something close to one of them then they aren't really symmetric in the room and you shouldn't expect the same in room performance.
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post #3804 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 12:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What do you mean by "not trust" it? It's a feature which solves a specific problem -- excess bass transmitting through walls -- and if you don't need it you don't use it. What does trust have to do with it?

Well, who wouldn't like listening to loud LFEs without waking the kids or the neighbors. While it's a specific problem, it's not a rare one and I'd sure try LFC. But what does it do exactly? As always, Audyssey is not keen on giving details. They can't do magic so my guess is that they EQ bass differently (or a similar compromise).

Trust is just in knowing that you're listening to the intended bass track vs how heavily it is tweaked. That being said, I'm curious about what it will actually do and how well it will actually perform.

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post #3805 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 01:11 PM
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X4000 Volume preset question

When using a Harmony remote with the X4000 is there a command or a way to have the volume go to a specific level when an “Activity” starts?

I have searched both the User’s Manual and this forum and I can’t find a way to do it – if it is even possible, but then both the X4000 and the Harmony are smarter than I am so I may have missed something.
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post #3806 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 01:34 PM
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Exactly what are the settings? If either of them is at -12dB (or +12dB), then Audyssey is pegged and comparing the settings is meaningless. (i.e. you need to turn down the volume control knob of any sub that's at -12dB and recalibrate.) Since you haven't tried to optimize the subwoofer placement, the shape of your room might be causing some of your measurements to be in peaks or nulls for some bass frequencies, which can cause audio anomalies.

OK, I did it again, and when I turned one down, it gave me some sort of error about balancing subs, so It said to adjust sub 1 to be less than 75db....which to me means turn it down, but it looks like it actually means turn it up. When I did, the 'red' box went to green. I just did the same thing with the other sub as well until both were 'about the same'. Then I re-did audyssey. Now, it looks like both are set at -8.0db after calibration. Is that better?
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post #3807 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 02:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Yup, -8 is fine. The initial sub level test is just a rough leveling.

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post #3808 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 02:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shark Bait II View Post

X4000 Volume preset question

When using a Harmony remote with the X4000 is there a command or a way to have the volume go to a specific level when an “Activity” starts?

I have searched both the User’s Manual and this forum and I can’t find a way to do it – if it is even possible, but then both the X4000 and the Harmony are smarter than I am so I may have missed something.

There are discrete commands for -20 and -40 but you have to "hack" them into your harmony. I have instructions posted on my website for doing it.

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post #3809 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 02:23 PM
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Hi All,

I've been trying to figure this out on my own, but after no success I thought I'd see if someone here could help.

I have a really simple setup right now using a Denon AVR-X4000. We have DirecTV connected to the AVR-X4000 with HDMI, which is then connected to our TV via HDMI. I have two old televisions in our backyard with coax lines run to them. I initially wanted to use the monitor video composite out from the AVR-X4000 to the TV's outside (video only) but that didn't seem to work. I have coax to RCA connectors we are running into the TV's composite inputs. I thought maybe my cabling was old so I tried composite out to another TV with a known working cable - and it didn't get a signal.

Out of curiosity I used the monitor component out to another TV to see If I could mirror the display and that too did not work. I have a feeling like I am missing something really simple here but any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Josh
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post #3810 of 8707 Old 11-30-2013, 02:31 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

What do you mean by "not trust" it? It's a feature which solves a specific problem -- excess bass transmitting through walls -- and if you don't need it you don't use it. What does trust have to do with it?

Well, who wouldn't like listening to loud LFEs without waking the kids or the neighbors. While it's a specific problem, it's not a rare one and I'd sure try LFC. But what does it do exactly? As always, Audyssey is not keen on giving details. They can't do magic so my guess is that they EQ bass differently (or a similar compromise).

Trust is just in knowing that you're listening to the intended bass track vs how heavily it is tweaked. That being said, I'm curious about what it will actually do and how well it will actually perform.

If you go to the first post of the 4520 thread I posted a link to measurements done by AustinJerry on the effects of LFC. As you would expect it's heavily attenuating the bass frequencies, and then adding some "secret sauce" psychoacoustic processing to make it feel fuller again.

Again I'm not really getting what's to "trust". You are explicitly NOT listening to the "intended" bass when you use it, that's the point. It is very heavily tweaked, intentionally so. But you would only use it if you have the specific problem it aims to address. You would never want to use it if you were trying to hear the track as "intended".

I can personally attest that it is very effective, it really doesn't sound like it is being as heavily attenuated as the graphs show, so the psychoacoustic processing is somewhat effective in restoring the "feel" of the bass. Obviously you are not going to get the full power of the subs, but that's the trade off. It is also adjustable by 7 steps of "containment" level; at the lowest level it still sounds pretty full and as you would expect at the strongest setting it sounds pretty obviously neutered. But it still sounds much better than turning the sub off completely, which is often the alternative solution that some are forced to use.

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