The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 133 - AVS Forum
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post #3961 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

He meant that he carefully trimmed back all ends of all speaker cables and reconnected them. Speaker cables are made up of fine wires twisted together in a bundle. It's very easy to not notice that a single strand is sticking out from the bundle and is very close to or touching an adjacent speaker binding post, either on the amp or on the speaker. If it's not quite touching, the vibrations of the sounds in the room can make it touch intermittently. That will cause your receiver to trip off and flash its red front-panel standby light.

Personally, I use banana plugs. It's easy to work with them out in the middle of the room in good light, then plug them into the amp or speaker. Other people prefer soldering the speaker cables to "spade lugs". Working on your knees in the dark down behind equipment or speakers makes it easy to overlook shorts.

You also should check the full length of your speaker cables to make sure they have not been chewed on by pets or rodents (or pet rodents wink.gif )

Thanks for the explanation. I will give it a try today.
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post #3962 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 08:25 AM
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Batpig is the guy for discrete Harmony controls. I'm sure you can get them on your Harmony. So if the quick selects will do it then it is still a good option. One thing to remember is that the AVR will not power both zone 2 and 3.

As for amps the Denon will control the volume. If you search the thread you find some cheap amps that JD recommends. I have had good success with a very low output board amp from Parts Express and expect the higher output ones to be pretty good too. If you're into a little DIY'ing. To power them up and down check out the link I posted earlier for a switched powerstrip.
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post #3963 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 08:36 AM
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New guy with a quick question/issue with internet radio on a x1000. Everything seems seems to be working fine, but I get no audio.

 

My set up is a Receiver connected to router by ethernet

Receiver to tv by HDMI, then I have a optical cable back from tv to receiver for antenna tv.

 

Internet radio, and all apps seem to stream correctly I'm just not getting any audio.

 

I've tried searching other threads, no luck so far for a solution.

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post #3964 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 08:49 AM
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Hi all

Just a quick follow-up to my posts a while back about my X2000 - @jdsmoothie was helping me troubleshoot - I was having terrible HDMI sync problems and problems with the GUI mysteriously not showing up on certain inputs. I have a Bell 9241 PVR, Optoma HD66 projector, X2000, Apple TV 720p, Macbook Pro and PS3.

Turns out that the Optoma wasn't sending proper EDID info to the receiver; the receiver was doing its best but the projector was reporting itself as a 720p 50hz display and everything just got confused.

So I did some research and bought this: http://www.hdfury.com/shop/otherhdfuryhardware/dr-hdmi/

I plugged it in between the X2000 and the HD66 and presto *everything* works perfectly. No sync problems, GUI showing up properly on all inputs, rock solid.

Toot toot!
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post #3965 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheRubberDuck View Post

New guy with a quick question/issue with internet radio on a x1000. Everything seems seems to be working fine, but I get no audio.

My set up is a Receiver connected to router by ethernet
Receiver to tv by HDMI, then I have a optical cable back from tv to receiver for antenna tv.

Internet radio, and all apps seem to stream correctly I'm just not getting any audio.

I've tried searching other threads, no luck so far for a solution.

Can you clarify a bit. You get NO AUDIO with ANY source? Or just internet streaming sources, while other sources work correctly?

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post #3966 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SlaveNewWorld View Post

Hi all

Just a quick follow-up to my posts a while back about my X2000 - @jdsmoothie was helping me troubleshoot - I was having terrible HDMI sync problems and problems with the GUI mysteriously not showing up on certain inputs. I have a Bell 9241 PVR, Optoma HD66 projector, X2000, Apple TV 720p, Macbook Pro and PS3.

Turns out that the Optoma wasn't sending proper EDID info to the receiver; the receiver was doing its best but the projector was reporting itself as a 720p 50hz display and everything just got confused.

So I did some research and bought this: http://www.hdfury.com/shop/otherhdfuryhardware/dr-hdmi/

I plugged it in between the X2000 and the HD66 and presto *everything* works perfectly. No sync problems, GUI showing up properly on all inputs, rock solid.

Toot toot!

Ahhh... the magic of HDMI rolleyes.gif

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post #3967 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by SadPanda83 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I assume you want music ONLY out of the back surrounds? The easiest way without swapping wires would be to set Amp Asssign to "front B" which turns the back surrounds into B stereo speakers, then use the 2ch config menu (all of this under Manual speaker setup) to assign the "B" speakers for 2ch stereo.


Hello Batpig

Appreciate the suggestion. I've trailed through all the settings and it appears this is not possible on the AVR-X1000. There is no amp assign option under manual config, unfortunately.

Regards,

SP

Well you didn't mention you had an X1000. There are no amps to assign because it's a 5ch receiver. You asked about using the "rear surrounds" so I assumed you were using a 7ch receiver. A 5ch reciver doesn't have back surrounds.

So the short answer is that it's not possible to play music ONLY out of the surrounds (not rear surrounds) with your receiver short of putting it in multich stereo mode and unplugging the fronts and center.

Why not just play music out of all the speakers?

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post #3968 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rare-air View Post

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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

You are correct. I guess they could have a setting for that automatic switching like they do with surround formats but I don't know if Denon has ever done it that way. If it did automatically switch then it would be a problem for all the folks (like me) that want to use the all 7 amps in zone 1 and also drive z2/3. I wonder if it is something you could program as a quick select buttons. That would be a fairly easy solution. I haven't used the quick selects so I'm not much help with that but I think this is the type of task they are designed for.

As I thought thanks for your help. It seems that they could have accommodated both configurations simply by having another setting in the Amp assignments something like (7/1-5/1 & Zone2 or Zone3) in addition to the existing settings.

Out of all the features that I wanted that was one of the biggest to me.

I do like the receiver and I guess I either return it or suck it up and buy two small amps one for patio and one for the bathroom. I do have a harmony but without a discrete code for amp assignments using the menu and scrolling through the selections likely wouldn't work.

Any suggestions for a small inexpensive amp that would be trigger able on/off and that I could control the volume with the remote or IP control?

To clarify how Denons work:

They do NOT have auto-switching of the assignable amps like the Onkyo, where it automatically drops to 5ch in main zone when you turn on Zone 2/3. Once you set an Amp Assign mode those extra two speakers are locked in. A quick select will not help as they do not memorize Amp Assign (this is a fundamental setting parameter, not an "on the fly" type of adjustment like volume or surround mode).

So the bottom line is if you want to run a 7ch setup in main zone, you have to provide external amplification for any additional speakers.

The other zones though probably don't require much power, I assume they are for typical background music type usage (I can't imagine you are raging at 90dB in the bathroom). I would go to PartsExpress.com and check their amplifier section and find one of the tiny digital amps (T-amps) that has an auto-on circuit so it will sense the signal and trigger automatically, this will make it virtually transparent in opertation. http://www.parts-express.com/cat/amplifiers/106

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post #3969 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:30 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post


Can you clarify a bit. You get NO AUDIO with ANY source? Or just internet streaming sources, while other sources work correctly?

Thanks for the reply.

 

Yes all other audio sources work. Internet radio appears to be streaming thru the internet radio and pandora app. Visually it looks correct, just no audio.

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post #3970 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 11:18 AM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post


Well you didn't mention you had an X1000. There are no amps to assign because it's a 5ch receiver. You asked about using the "rear surrounds" so I assumed you were using a 7ch receiver. A 5ch reciver doesn't have back surrounds.

So the short answer is that it's not possible to play music ONLY out of the surrounds (not rear surrounds) with your receiver short of putting it in multich stereo mode and unplugging the fronts and center.

Why not just play music out of all the speakers?

 

Yep, I found a great alternative called Multi Stereo. I think it works even better so I get more coverage during my party. Thanks anyway for your time and apologies for the confusion.

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post #3971 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 11:52 AM
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Multi Stereo is a beautiful thing for Music.

Will I find La Scala, or better, to displace my La Scala fronts, before I displace my kg1, kg2 & kg3 with Heresy or better?

RED AND BLUE=MAROON!
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post #3972 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 11:54 AM
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Well as much as it pains me to have to purchase an Amp after spending 1k on a new receiver I have an "AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier" on the way. I can at least pull out my non powered speaker switch use this as a fancy powered speaker switch, just wish could control the volume remotely.

My last issue was setting up a Harmony activity for night time TV viewing. So I was using HDMI pass through from cable box through receiver (which is off in standby) and then to the TV. I get video but no sound almost like it is getting stripped away in the receiver somehow. Turning up the TV volume shows the volume bar moving but no sound out of the ZT. I am using HDMI 1 (ARC) out on the receiver then to the TV which is using ARC input 2. Should I stay away from using the ARC ports to get this to work. I looked through out the menu system for a setting for HDMI pass through but didn't see anything.

Any ideas?
Thanks
Craig
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post #3973 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 11:55 AM
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Quick Question, my X4000 is set to arrive today. I haven't finished getting my Cat6 cables pulled to the living room. Should I plug the unit into my router in the office first and update it's firmware? Or are receivers more of a don't update till something is broken?
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post #3974 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 12:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post

Quick Question, my X4000 is set to arrive today. I haven't finished getting my Cat6 cables pulled to the living room. Should I plug the unit into my router in the office first and update it's firmware? Or are receivers more of a don't update till something is broken?

I have read that Denon is good in not sending out crappy firmware updates nor do they update often. I tried doing this on my new 4000 last night but it already had the latest firmware. So I suspect there is nothing to update.
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post #3975 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 12:19 PM
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Originally Posted by rare-air View Post

Well as much as it pains me to have to purchase an Amp after spending 1k on a new receiver I have an "AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier" on the way. I can at least pull out my non powered speaker switch use this as a fancy powered speaker switch, just wish could control the volume remotely.

My last issue was setting up a Harmony activity for night time TV viewing. So I was using HDMI pass through from cable box through receiver (which is off in standby) and then to the TV. I get video but no sound almost like it is getting stripped away in the receiver somehow. Turning up the TV volume shows the volume bar moving but no sound out of the ZT. I am using HDMI 1 (ARC) out on the receiver then to the TV which is using ARC input 2. Should I stay away from using the ARC ports to get this to work. I looked through out the menu system for a setting for HDMI pass through but didn't see anything.

Any ideas?
Thanks
Craig

I had the same thing happen when my wife tried to use TV without AVR - almost blew WAF out of the window - pure horror

This is all related to the dreaded siwtch to TV Audio on startup (see FAQ in the first post for more info)
This happened to me even when AVR was off and made me finally give up on the ARC

You can disable HDMI-CEC (ARC) in TV/AVR menu to get rid of this
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post #3976 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 12:21 PM
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I let mine update as soon as I get it but it can probably wait until you get the cables. It's not a game console that needs a day one patch wink.gif. FYI, my update took about 45 minutes.

Once connected to the Internet it will remind you on every power up that there is an update unless you disable the notification from the menu.

I usually update as soon as I see the notification but I don't feel paranoid while updating within warranty.
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post #3977 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 12:23 PM
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Looking for suggestions gents! - I was thinking about adding a bigger amp to my X-4000 to take some work off the receiver. I've currently got a 9.2 with an Audiosource AMP-100 running my height channels ( 50 watts x 2 @ 8ohm ). I've got three options:
1. Add a Emotiva UPA-500 to the system that does 80wpc at 8ohms ( all channels driven ) x 5 channels for 464.00 ( shipping and duties included to Canada ) 5yr Warranty
2. Add two more AMP-100's and run them in bridged mono with my current AMP-100 giving me 150wpc x 3 - 240.00 ( shipping and duties incl ) USED with no warranty ( I figure if one bites it for that price I could buy another used one and it would come in under the price of the Emotiva )
3. Do nothing, as I run music at -20 and movies at -10 anyways, it won't make a lick of difference.

Opinions?

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post #3978 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Multi Stereo is a beautiful thing for Music.


It sure is! :)

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post #3979 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 01:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rare-air View Post

Well as much as it pains me to have to purchase an Amp after spending 1k on a new receiver I have an "AudioSource AMP-100 Stereo Power Amplifier" on the way. I can at least pull out my non powered speaker switch use this as a fancy powered speaker switch, just wish could control the volume remotely.

Good choice, that's an amp I've used in a zone install for a friend and the auto sensing power circuitry works seamlessly. It's also pretty low profile, only a couple inches tall.

Also note that you CAN control volume remotely from the Denon itself. Set the AMP-100 at a gain level that allows sufficient output from the Zone speakers, and then don't touch the knob anymore. On the Denon, you set the volume output to "variable" for the Zone 2/3 outputs and then you can power on a zone and control source AND volume from your smartphone or tablet using a remote app. Easy and slick. So the AMP-100 operates at a fixed gain level and (along with the auto-on circuitry) after you set it up you pretend like it's not even there, everything is controlled from the receiver.

Quote:
My last issue was setting up a Harmony activity for night time TV viewing. So I was using HDMI pass through from cable box through receiver (which is off in standby) and then to the TV. I get video but no sound almost like it is getting stripped away in the receiver somehow. Turning up the TV volume shows the volume bar moving but no sound out of the ZT. I am using HDMI 1 (ARC) out on the receiver then to the TV which is using ARC input 2. Should I stay away from using the ARC ports to get this to work. I looked through out the menu system for a setting for HDMI pass through but didn't see anything.

This is likely an HDMI handshake goof. If, when in standby pass-through mode, you power the cable box and/or the TV on/off, does the volume start piping through?

As the other posted noted above there's a good chance the ARC setting on the TV itself is causing the goof.

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post #3980 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 01:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Looking for suggestions gents! - I was thinking about adding a bigger amp to my X-4000 to take some work off the receiver. I've currently got a 9.2 with an Audiosource AMP-100 running my height channels ( 50 watts x 2 @ 8ohm ). I've got three options:
1. Add a Emotiva UPA-500 to the system that does 80wpc at 8ohms ( all channels driven ) x 5 channels for 464.00 ( shipping and duties included to Canada ) 5yr Warranty
2. Add two more AMP-100's and run them in bridged mono with my current AMP-100 giving me 150wpc x 3 - 240.00 ( shipping and duties incl ) USED with no warranty ( I figure if one bites it for that price I could buy another used one and it would come in under the price of the Emotiva )
3. Do nothing, as I run music at -20 and movies at -10 anyways, it won't make a lick of difference.

Opinions?

How can we provide an opinion about amplification needs when you didn't tell us what speakers you are using? The only answer is "maybe" without any specific parameters like speaker model, sensitivity, and listening distance.

At least you did mention volume... at 10dB below reference, you are only using 1/10th the power needed at reference, so it is likely that you don't really NEED additional amplification (pending the info above). But, then again, the additional clean power may prompt you to start inching the volume up more biggrin.gif

IMO, the answer is either #3 if you have relatively sensitive speakers (e.g. under 10ft listening distance and 89db+ sensitivity) or get a more bad-ass amp if you REALLY need extra juice for difficult to drive front speakers.

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post #3981 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 01:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Warder45 View Post

Quick Question, my X4000 is set to arrive today. I haven't finished getting my Cat6 cables pulled to the living room. Should I plug the unit into my router in the office first and update it's firmware? Or are receivers more of a don't update till something is broken?

IMI -- drag it into the office, plug it in, let it update firmware overnight tonight, and you can set it up with clean current firmware.

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post #3982 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 02:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

How can we provide an opinion about amplification needs when you didn't tell us what speakers you are using? The only answer is "maybe" without any specific parameters like speaker model, sensitivity, and listening distance.

At least you did mention volume... at 10dB below reference, you are only using 1/10th the power needed at reference, so it is likely that you don't really NEED additional amplification (pending the info above). But, then again, the additional clean power may prompt you to start inching the volume up more biggrin.gif

IMO, the answer is either #3 if you have relatively sensitive speakers (e.g. under 10ft listening distance and 89db+ sensitivity) or get a more bad-ass amp if you REALLY need extra juice for difficult to drive front speakers.

My apologies, Psb t5s and b5s all around, they're 90 sensiivity, 8 ohm, and I sit about 7 ft from all the speakers. overkill ?

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post #3983 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 03:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

My apologies, Psb t5s and b5s all around, they're 90 sensiivity, 8 ohm, and I sit about 7 ft from all the speakers. overkill ?

Yea, I would think so. Your subs are taking the strain off of the amp and that combined with your MV, speaker efficiency and listening distance, I doubt you hear any difference at all, except the hollow sound in your bank account. tongue.gif

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post #3984 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Looking for suggestions gents! - I was thinking about adding a bigger amp to my X-4000 to take some work off the receiver. I've currently got a 9.2 with an Audiosource AMP-100 running my height channels ( 50 watts x 2 @ 8ohm ). I've got three options:
1. Add a Emotiva UPA-500 to the system that does 80wpc at 8ohms ( all channels driven ) x 5 channels for 464.00 ( shipping and duties included to Canada ) 5yr Warranty
2. Add two more AMP-100's and run them in bridged mono with my current AMP-100 giving me 150wpc x 3 - 240.00 ( shipping and duties incl ) USED with no warranty ( I figure if one bites it for that price I could buy another used one and it would come in under the price of the Emotiva )
3. Do nothing, as I run music at -20 and movies at -10 anyways, it won't make a lick of difference.

Opinions?

This is a question of want because you don't need anything. With your speakers and listening volume you are probably getting great performance already. I think you may getting sucked into the internet forum trap where you read up on something and then start thinking it is a good idea for you too. I have been caught in this trap and I'm sure I'll fall back in it soon.

Oh, you forgot option 4. Where you get a really nice 2 channel amp for the L/R to offload that work from the X4000. The mains are using a lot more power than the heights. Look out! It's a trap.
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post #3985 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 04:54 PM
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Welcome to the trap Sean!
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post #3986 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 07:35 PM
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My X4000 arrived today! I won't be doing any setup until tomorrow. If I'm lucky, I'll have the house to myself for a bit on Sunday to do an Audyssey calibration. Will post my impressions once I've had a chance to do some post-calibration listening. biggrin.gif

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Gear: Speakers (Paradigm Reference Studio Series): 40 v4 (front L/R), CC-690 v4 (centre), 20 v4 (surround L/R). PSA XS30 (subwoofer).
Denon AVR-X4000, Emotiva XPA-5, Samsung PN64F8500 (64" plasma), DarbeeVision Darblet DVP5000, PS3, Sony BDP-S6200, Apple TV (3rd gen.), Harmony One, Sennheiser RS180
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post #3987 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 07:41 PM
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Congrats and welcome to the club!
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post #3988 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 08:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post


IMO, the answer is either #3 if you have relatively sensitive speakers (e.g. under 10ft listening distance and 89db+ sensitivity) or get a more bad-ass amp if you REALLY need extra juice for difficult to drive front speakers.

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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Yea, I would think so. Your subs are taking the strain off of the amp and that combined with your MV, speaker efficiency and listening distance, I doubt you hear any difference at all, except the hollow sound in your bank account. tongue.gif

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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

This is a question of want because you don't need anything. With your speakers and listening volume you are probably getting great performance already. I think you may getting sucked into the internet forum trap where you read up on something and then start thinking it is a good idea for you too. I have been caught in this trap and I'm sure I'll fall back in it soon.

Oh, you forgot option 4. Where you get a really nice 2 channel amp for the L/R to offload that work from the X4000. The mains are using a lot more power than the heights. Look out! It's a trap.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Welcome to the trap Sean!

Well that sounds like a resounding no to me. Fair enough - The Emotiva's do look cool - but that's not enough for me to drop cash for one. Thanks for the reality check guys.

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post #3989 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 09:12 PM
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Marking the thread. Just purchased the X2000 and a Sharp LC-60LE857u. Loving the AVR so. Upgraded from a Harman Kardon AVR300. Big difference.
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post #3990 of 8308 Old 12-06-2013, 10:15 PM
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I'm having a strange problem with my X4000 that's really bugging me. I have a workaround, which I'll explain, but it's just annoying.

I have Netflix available through several devices: Chromecast (plugged into the Aux 2 HDMI port), Oppo BDP-103, Roku streaming stick plugged into the Oppo, and my XBox 360. Multi-channel movies play back fine through any of them. BUT...when I try to play a 2 channel show (say, stand-up comedy), I get no sound, or exremely muffled sound using anything but the XBox! Somehow, for some reason, the XBox will switch the Denon to Dolby Digital, and it will play using only the front 2 channels. But all the other Netflix streamers will switch the Denon to Stereo, and I get nothing.

EDIT: I'm configured in 7.1, using all the built-in amps....just in the interest of completeness.

I'm sure it's a setting on one or the other of the devices, or a combination of settings conflicting, but I just can't figure it out! I can always switch to the XBox to watch those shows, but sometimes I just want to use the Chromecast and stream from my phone or tablet. I mean, if I can get sound on Netflix from the XBox, I should be able to get it on all the streaming devices, right? And the fact that 5.1 movies play fine through all of them just adds to my confusion. Any ideas or suggestions, anyone?

EDIT 2: I've found that this also happens when streaming youtube to the Chromecast. Only the LFE channel makes any noise.
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