The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 148 - AVS Forum
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post #4411 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 01:31 PM
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Set up my new X4000 yesterday after a month of staring longingly at the box waiting for Christmas to come (I bought it on sale before Thanksgiving, but as it was intended as a Christmas gift, I wasn't allowed to touch it until yesterday). Anyway, I like it a lot so far. It's pretty similar to my old 3310, but a number of nice new upgrades, and a couple of "why did you change that?" things (if a want to use shuffle play on my MP3s, I have to go through the option menu instead of just pressing "random").

One change I noticed is that the "Music mode" sound field is now stereo only. On my old 3310, music mode would generate a nice synthesized 5.1 surround sound that I quite liked. It had a very different character than other surround modes, none of which seemed to sound very realistic for music. Is there a similar synthetic 5.1 mode for music on the X4000?
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post #4412 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 01:48 PM
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Just figured it out myself. I guess you have to press and hold the Music button to access the various Music sound fields. On the 3310, each press would toggle to the next field.
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post #4413 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhachey View Post

On my old 3310, music mode would generate a nice synthesized 5.1 surround sound that I quite liked. It had a very different character than other surround modes, none of which seemed to sound very realistic for music. Is there a similar synthetic 5.1 mode for music on the X4000?

If you hold down the red "music" button on the remote it will let you change the format. I belive multi-channel stereo or virtual surround options will do what you want. You may also want to peek at the web interface/mobile apps for changing DSP modes.
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post #4414 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 01:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jhachey View Post

Just figured it out myself. I guess you have to press and hold the Music button to access the various Music sound fields. On the 3310, each press would toggle to the next field.
Beat me while I was typing! smile.gif
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post #4415 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 01:52 PM
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Hi gang. I just hooked up some new low-end but still highly regarded Monoprice 10565 speakers to my E300 AVR. The Audyssey setup, which I ran twice and got the same settings both times, set my FL/FR crossovers to 110Hz and my Center crossover to 150Hz. These seem pretty high and well above the recommended 60-80Hz crossover setting, but they are small bookshelf speakers so perhaps this is correct. I know the Audyssey FAQ says to NEVER lower the detected crossover setting, but does 150Hz seem right for the center channel? Per the specs for the speaker the Frequency Range is only 110Hz to 20KHz ±3dB. Is it safe to lower these down to 80, 90, 100Hz or should I just leave them alone? All other settings appear to be just fine (all speakers are set as small and the sub is at -2.0dB). Thanks.
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post #4416 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 02:07 PM
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Leave them where they are set. Unlike the mfr testing of the speakers under ideal conditions, your speakers are being calibrated based on their response placed in your room.
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post #4417 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 02:10 PM - Thread Starter
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Those speakers have 3" woofers. What makes you think they should be set down to 60-80hz? Leave them as is.

If you want the center crossover lower (eg if deep male voices end up in the subwoofer) you will probably have to reposition the speaker. There is no setting in between 120hz and 150hz so if the speaker is measuring just above 120hz (very reasonable given the size and potential acoustic impact of sitting it on a shelf or console) then the receiver will set it up a 150hz. So maybe a small adjustment and then recalibrating will get it down to 110-120hz.
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post #4418 of 8725 Old 12-26-2013, 02:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes. There have been owners of the 38XX series around that same time frame that have even been impressed with the audio quality upgrade from lower level models using just Audyssey MultEQ as well. smile.gif

That's good to hear. Looking forward to getting it set up.

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post #4419 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 06:23 AM
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Having a little issue with sub volume/LFE levels. Can't seem to find a good balance. In some movie scenes (not all) the sub is too loud, and the scenes where it is too powerful are often ones where it isn't needed. I expect booming bass in certain movies/scenes (action movies, etc).

I think I'll re-run Audyssey. I changed the crossovers on the mains, surrounds, and center from 60Hz to 80Hz . They are older PSB Image 1Bs and an 8C center. The sub is a powered PSB Subsonic 6, I have the sub's crossover set at 120Hz.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

One more question: What's a good source for inexpensive (but good quality) easy to install banana plugs? Speaker wire is older Monster 12 awg.
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post #4420 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 06:30 AM
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Hello.

I have had the x4000 model for a month now and I am very pleased with it.
I got one problem.
I have a IPTV-box connected to the x4000 via HDMI. (a Motoroloa VIP1003 from Telia in Sweden)
The x4000 is connected to my Panasonic G10 Plasma from 2009.
The picture from the IPTV box is too bright and black are more like gray.
If I change the input on x4000 to another source and then back again, the picture is fine. Like it is if I connect the box direct to the TV.
It dosen't matter in what order I start the 3 involved devices or how long I wait between it. I always have to change input one time before the picture is good.
This is only a problem with the IPTV-box though. My other inputs, PS3, a Denon Bluray-player and my HTPC have good picture from the beginning.
Does anyone know what might be the problem? Is it the box that dosen't respect the HDMI-protocoll good enough or something like that?

One more question, I can't get the Denon remote to work with the IPTV box with any of the included IR-codes for Motorola.
If I got the learnable remote that is included with AVR-4520, will that remote work out of the box with my x4000 or do they use different IR-codes?

Thanks for the help!
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post #4421 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post

Having a little issue with sub volume/LFE levels. Can't seem to find a good balance. In some movie scenes (not all) the sub is too loud, and the scenes where it is too powerful are often ones where it isn't needed. I expect booming bass in certain movies/scenes (action movies, etc).

I think I'll re-run Audyssey. I changed the crossovers on the mains, surrounds, and center from 60Hz to 80Hz . They are older PSB Image 1Bs and an 8C center. The sub is a powered PSB Subsonic 6, I have the sub's crossover set at 120Hz.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

One more question: What's a good source for inexpensive (but good quality) easy to install banana plugs? Speaker wire is older Monster 12 awg.


Banana plugs
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I actually ordered my speaker cables from there with the plugs already made on one end.

What is the trim level setting for the sub in the AVR menu? I generally adjust my sub gain knob where the AVR internal setting is around -2 or -3db when finished. I then generally boost the sub around 4db int he menu when auto setup is complete. I also cross my speakers at 80hz and set the fronts to small.

65" VT50 / BDT460
X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
Klipsch RF82 II and RC62 II / Hsu VTF-15H (2)
Directv HR44-200 / HR24-500
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post #4422 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 07:16 AM
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AVR-X4000 ordered today, will be here Monday.

Going to be used as a preamp with my model 7125 amp biggrin.gif

65" VT50 / BDT460
X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
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post #4423 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 07:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chimen View Post

Hello.

I have had the x4000 model for a month now and I am very pleased with it.
I got one problem.
I have a IPTV-box connected to the x4000 via HDMI. (a Motoroloa VIP1003 from Telia in Sweden)
The x4000 is connected to my Panasonic G10 Plasma from 2009.
The picture from the IPTV box is too bright and black are more like gray.
If I change the input on x4000 to another source and then back again, the picture is fine. Like it is if I connect the box direct to the TV.
It dosen't matter in what order I start the 3 involved devices or how long I wait between it. I always have to change input one time before the picture is good.
This is only a problem with the IPTV-box though. My other inputs, PS3, a Denon Bluray-player and my HTPC have good picture from the beginning.
Does anyone know what might be the problem? Is it the box that dosen't respect the HDMI-protocoll good enough or something like that?

One more question, I can't get the Denon remote to work with the IPTV box with any of the included IR-codes for Motorola.
If I got the learnable remote that is included with AVR-4520, will that remote work out of the box with my x4000 or do they use different IR-codes?

Thanks for the help!

Odd thing is that when you change to another source and back again the picture is fine. Is the power to the IPTV (is that cable in Sweden?) box left on all the time? It probably should be, otherwise you'd have to do some sort of reset every time you fire it up. It could be a handshake issue with the cable box when you first power on the AVR. Maybe you could check to see if they have newer upgrades to the IPTV box.

Do all your sources go through the X4000 HDMI ports and one HDMI to the TV? If not, that would be something to look into. Also, the X4000 could be changing settings based on the source. Need to go into the menus to check that.

There are inexpensive universal remotes that work quite well. I have one from Sony that was less than $30. Many people swear by the Harmony universal remotes but they are generally much more expensive.

There is an outside chance you have a bad HDMI board, Denon HDMI boards are generally reliable, but all manufactures of the latest "in demand" equipment can suffer from quality control problems due to the number of units they're trying to ship.

I don't think I was much help, but I'm no expert, other people here are much more knowledgeable.
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post #4424 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 07:40 AM
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Hi there.  Very new to home stereo and have a cobbled together system as follows:

 

E300

4 B&W LM-1 (hand me downs)

Polk CS2 Series II Center

Polk PSW505

 

I've just added the sub and rerun Audyssey for a new calibration and was hoping someone could give my settings a quick once over.  I thought the sub would be taking a bit more of a low end and really add that dimension to the audio.  I have not yet watched an action movie for explosions etc but have tried various genres of music: Rodrigo y Gabriela (acoustic guitar), Reggae (Toots and the Maytals), R&B/Pop (Adele) and thought the songs would all have a bit more low end in them.  I'm not looking for 16 year old rap bass but had just imagined a bit more low end.   

 

I did read this thread's Audyssey setup guide and found it very useful.  

 

Speaker Config:

Front: Small

Center: Small

Sub: Yes

Surround: Small

 

Levels:

Front L: -7.0 dB

Front R: -7.5 dB

Center: -6.0 dB

Sub: -11.0 dB

Surround L: -2.5 dB

Surround R: -5.5 dB

 

Crossovers:

Front: 90 Hz

Center: 40 Hz

Surround: 60 Hz

 

Distances: All of which seem very accurate

Front L: 10.2 ft

Front R: 10.2 ft

Center: 9.5 ft

Sub: 10.5 ft

Surround L: 13.8 ft 

Surround R: 7.7 ft

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post #4425 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 07:46 AM
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Sub at -11.0db means gain knob on sub is too high. Adjust until that result is +3.0 db to -3.0db. I personally think Audyssey sets my sub too low, so I adjust the knob where the sub lands around -3.0db, I then boost it +4.0db in the AVR menu (result is +1.0db).

Id set the LM1's on 80hz or 90hz, I think their freq response low is 65hz but they are quite small. Might want to even try them at 100hz so all that bass goes to sub. Id also set the polk center on 80hz.

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X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
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post #4426 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 07:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Clark View Post

Having a little issue with sub volume/LFE levels. Can't seem to find a good balance. In some movie scenes (not all) the sub is too loud, and the scenes where it is too powerful are often ones where it isn't needed. I expect booming bass in certain movies/scenes (action movies, etc).

I think I'll re-run Audyssey. I changed the crossovers on the mains, surrounds, and center from 60Hz to 80Hz . They are older PSB Image 1Bs and an 8C center. The sub is a powered PSB Subsonic 6, I have the sub's crossover set at 120Hz.

Thanks in advance for any advice.

One more question: What's a good source for inexpensive (but good quality) easy to install banana plugs? Speaker wire is older Monster 12 awg.

If you don't want to do mail order you can get banana plugs at Lowe's. I believe it was $21 for 5 sets of plugs. They are gold plated and seem to be high quality.
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post #4427 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Sub at -11.0db means gain knob on sub is too high. Adjust until that result is +3.0 db to -3.0db. I personally think Audyssey sets my sub too low, so I adjust the knob where the sub lands around -3.0db, I then boost it +4.0db in the AVR menu (result is +1.0db).

Id set the LM1's on 80hz or 90hz, I think their freq response low is 65hz but they are quite small. Might want to even try them at 100hz so all that bass goes to sub. Id also set the polk center on 80hz.

Thanks.

 

Unfortunately the PSW505 does not have a gain knob, only a volume control.  Per the Audyssey instructions in this thread I was going to dial it back from 50% (where I had it on the first calibration) to about 30% to get the sub level greater than -10.  Instead, I'll try as you recommend and see where it takes me.  Thanks also for the input on the crossovers.  From reading through this thread I was a bit cautious about altering the Audyssey calibration.

 

As a further question, I have the sub connected via "LFE Input (unfiltered)" and the sub out on the sub preout on the receiver.  Per the PSW 505 manual it states, "Low Pass (Hz) - Note: This control does not operate when the subwoofer is connected with Method #1 (LFE Input).  This control adjusts the frequency range over which the subwoofer operates.  When using smaller speakers, the upper range of the control will probably yield the best results......."  

 

The Audyssey setup guide instructs that the Low Pass (Hz) dial be set to it's maximum for calibration but the manual says that this setting does not operate via my connection method.  Is this of any consequence?

 

Thanks in advance.  

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post #4428 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:11 AM
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I say gain, but mean volume or vice versa smile.gif

50% is often times way too much, its better to start around a 9oclock or 25% mark on the sub.

65" VT50 / BDT460
X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
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post #4429 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TightLines View Post

Thanks.

Unfortunately the PSW505 does not have a gain knob, only a volume control.  Per the Audyssey instructions in this thread I was going to dial it back from 50% (where I had it on the first calibration) to about 30% to get the sub level greater than -10.  Instead, I'll try as you recommend and see where it takes me.  Thanks also for the input on the crossovers.  From reading through this thread I was a bit cautious about altering the Audyssey calibration.

As a further question, I have the sub connected via "LFE Input (unfiltered)" and the sub out on the sub preout on the receiver.  Per the PSW 505 manual it states, "Low Pass (Hz) - Note: This control does not operate when the subwoofer is connected with Method #1 (LFE Input).  This control adjusts the frequency range over which the subwoofer operates.  When using smaller speakers, the upper range of the control will probably yield the best results......."  

The Audyssey setup guide instructs that the Low Pass (Hz) dial be set to it's maximum for calibration but the manual says that this setting does not operate via my connection method.  Is this of any consequence?

Thanks in advance.  


Gain and volume control are the same thing. Most here will call it gain, while others and most manufacturers call it volume. A lot of users find that bass is lacking a bit after running Audyssey, so you're not alone. Do you have Dynamic EQ turned on? Give yourself some time to get used to what flatter bass response sounds like. It is OK to turn the sub trim higher (1-4db is the usual amount), but maybe wait a week or so until you've had a chance to adjust.

Most subs have an input that bypasses its own internal x-over control so no matter where it is set, it doesn't matter. That being said, there is no harm in turning the sub's x-over to its highest setting.

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post #4430 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Banana plugs
http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/speaker/index.htm

I actually ordered my speaker cables from there with the plugs already made on one end.

What is the trim level setting for the sub in the AVR menu? I generally adjust my sub gain knob where the AVR internal setting is around -2 or -3db when finished. I then generally boost the sub around 4db int he menu when auto setup is complete. I also cross my speakers at 80hz and set the fronts to small.

Thanks, that's helpful.

I'm not sure what "trim level" setting is. The Audyssey instructions are to set the sub at 50% volume which I did. It didn't specify the sub crossover level, I had it at 100Hz, someone suggested going to 120Hz, I've done that. I'll re-do Audyssey and see what happens. After I first did Audyssey, the sub seemed a little weak, so I started playing with the settings, now it's excessive for certain material (only source right now is FiOS).

My speakers are set to small and are now at 80Hz (they were at 60). I'll re-do Audyssey and see what happens, then I'll "fine tune" the bass.
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post #4431 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:22 AM
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"Levels:

Front L: -7.0 dB

Front R: -7.5 dB

Center: -6.0 dB

Sub: -11.0 dB

Surround L: -2.5 dB

Surround R: -5.5 dB

"
Those are an example of trim levels in the AVR menu, under Manual settings. Sub setting of 50% is gain/volume can be too much and poor advice. Start with 25% and shoot for -3.0 to +3.0 db for the level result. You want to bypass the sub xover on the back, or if it just has a knob cut it all teh way up. Then set the sub settings under manual settings in the AVR menu to "LFE" and "120hz".

As I stated above, once I get the sub level result in the menu after audyssey to -2 or -3 db, I boost mine +4.0db to +1 or +2db.

Setting the xover to 80hz will send the sub all the sub 80hz stuff (roughly), and setting the LFE channel to 120hz ensures the sub gets everything in the LFE channel already. Bypassing or cranking up the xover knob on the sub ensures it does not muck with what you set in the AVR menu after audyssey runs.

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X4000 / Outlaw Model 7125
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post #4432 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:23 AM
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Unfortunately, the audio from any cable TV system (including FIOS) is going to vary a lot from station to station, so finding optimal audio settings is going to be frustrating. The only way to be sure you're getting source material that contains calibrated audio levels is with BDs or DVDs or files taken directly from them. CDs vary a lot, too.

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post #4433 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by rare-air View Post

If you don't want to do mail order you can get banana plugs at Lowe's. I believe it was $21 for 5 sets of plugs. They are gold plated and seem to be high quality.

I'll check that out. I assume 5 sets means 10 plugs. I need 20 plugs total (10 for the speakers and 10 for the AVR). Just want easy attachment and good quality. Thanks.
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post #4434 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

Unfortunately, the audio from any cable TV system (including FIOS) is going to vary a lot from station to station, so finding optimal audio settings is going to be frustrating. The only way to be sure you're getting source material that contains calibrated audio levels is with BDs or DVDs or files taken directly from them. CDs vary a lot, too.

It IS frustrating. I'll go from one channel to another and the volume level is totally different and the sub level is totally different. I don't do BR's or DVD's, I just do FiOS (right now).
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post #4435 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Sub at -11.0db means gain knob on sub is too high. Adjust until that result is +3.0 db to -3.0db. I personally think Audyssey sets my sub too low, so I adjust the knob where the sub lands around -3.0db, I then boost it +4.0db in the AVR menu (result is +1.0db).

Id set the LM1's on 80hz or 90hz, I think their freq response low is 65hz but they are quite small. Might want to even try them at 100hz so all that bass goes to sub. Id also set the polk center on 80hz.

Would you recommend setting the front LM1's and rear LM1's at the same crossover or would there be a benefit in keeping a differential as Audyssey calibration suggested?

 

Many thanks.  

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post #4436 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TightLines View Post

Would you recommend setting the front LM1's and rear LM1's at the same crossover or would there be a benefit in keeping a differential as Audyssey calibration suggested?

Many thanks.  

I would go with at least 100hz for the LM1s, all around. Let the sub do what is does far better than the LM1s. That change alone will help bass output.

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post #4437 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 09:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TightLines View Post

Would you recommend setting the front LM1's and rear LM1's at the same crossover or would there be a benefit in keeping a differential as Audyssey calibration suggested?

Many thanks.  

Ill defer to someone else on that one. I just know you dont want any of them too low, or lower than they are capable, because that bass is getting wasted and could go to the sub.

I had a Def Tech Pro Cinema system at one time, and their specs would leave you to set them at 80hz for the fronts. After jamming some movies, I was a little worried. After talking with Def Tech directly, they had me set the fronts and center on 100hz, and the sound was better. Sure I heard the sub more, but overall sound was improved.

Sometimes its hard for folks to use "small" and 80hz for their fronts, but it can be the best move smile.gif

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post #4438 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 10:09 AM - Thread Starter
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To add to the above...

Quote:
Sub at -11.0db means gain knob on sub is too high. Adjust until that result is +3.0 db to -3.0db.

First, let's clear up a misconception -- there is absolutely NO need to re-run Audyssey because the subwoofer came in at -11dB. The only reason to re-run would be if the sub trim was fully "maxed out " at +/-12dB. The ONLY potential detriment to a -11 trim for the sub is if the voltage from the sub out is too low to consistently trigger the sub's auto-on circuit. If the sub's auto-on circuit is triggering consistently, then it is perfectly fine, the calibration (EQ) for the sub is unimpacted by the trim level.

The only other minor negative would be that you have limited "wiggle room" for lowering the sub volume, but in this case he would like to boost the sub so it's a non factor. If he decides he likes more bass he can simply bump the sub up from -11 to -8 or -6 or whatever.

Lowering the gain knob a bit and then re-running Audyssey so the trim comes in at, say, -3 instead of -11 would not change sound quality or output volume in any way (assuming identical mic positions of course). It certainly will NOT make the bass louder, because the sub will still be calibrated to 75dB just like all the other speakers.

So there is no need to re-run Audyssey, just some education and minor settings tweaks.

Quote:
Unfortunately the PSW505 does not have a gain knob, only a volume control.

The knob on a subwoofer (or any amplifier) is ALWAYS a gain knob. It may be labeled as "Volume" to make it more understandable for the end user but it's still a gain knob. There is a difference, although it's not really relevant for this discussion. The bottom line is that the volume/gain is fine where it is, but if you choose to re-run Audyssey at a later date you might as well lower it a bit from 50% to ~30% so you get a slightly higher trim setting (although again keeping my first point above in mind, it's purely for convenience not to improve sound quality).

Quote:
As a further question, I have the sub connected via "LFE Input (unfiltered)" and the sub out on the sub preout on the receiver. Per the PSW 505 manual it states, "Low Pass (Hz) - Note: This control does not operate when the subwoofer is connected with Method #1 (LFE Input). This control adjusts the frequency range over which the subwoofer operates. When using smaller speakers, the upper range of the control will probably yield the best results......."

The Audyssey setup guide instructs that the Low Pass (Hz) dial be set to it's maximum for calibration but the manual says that this setting does not operate via my connection method. Is this of any consequence?

It's actually of consequence but it's a GOOD thing. The Audyssey guide instructions are to set the LPF dial to the max IF you can't simply bypass it. Since you have the option of bypassing the LPF completely, then those instructions aren't relevant. Simply bypass it as you have using the unfiltered input and call it a day; if you used a filtered input you would likely end up with a longer "distance" setting for the subwoofer because of the slight delay imposed by the additional (unbypassed) filter circuitry.

Quote:
Would you recommend setting the front LM1's and rear LM1's at the same crossover or would there be a benefit in keeping a differential as Audyssey calibration suggested?

The LM1's are relatively small speakers, and you have a pretty nice sub, so as others have said let the sub do what it's meant to do. The subwoofer is going to reproduce the lower octaves better than the LM1's. Additionally, because you only have basic MultEQ in your receiver, the filters on the subwoofer channel are MUCH higher resolution (128x vs. only 2x, so 64 times greater resolution). Thus, by offloading additional bass to the subwoofer you gain the benefit of superior EQ filter resolution on those difficult bass frequencies. Feel free to experiment, but I would probably set them all to 100Hz and call it a day.

The reason the crossovers were different for these identical speakers is due to room acoustics. The lowest bass octaves are very sensitive to room acoustics because of the extremely long wavelengths, so they will not perform identically in the bass region when actually placed in a real room.

Quote:
I've just added the sub and rerun Audyssey for a new calibration and was hoping someone could give my settings a quick once over. I thought the sub would be taking a bit more of a low end and really add that dimension to the audio. I have not yet watched an action movie for explosions etc but have tried various genres of music: Rodrigo y Gabriela (acoustic guitar), Reggae (Toots and the Maytals), R&B/Pop (Adele) and thought the songs would all have a bit more low end in them. I'm not looking for 16 year old rap bass but had just imagined a bit more low end.

So now back to the original question... other than adjusting the crossover to the 90-100Hz range for the LM1's, I would not make any further adjustments until you watch a "reference" source, which is a film on DVD or Blu-ray. Music is inconsistent with how it's mastered, but a good action movie will be an appropriate test of bass performance.

So adjust the crossover, leave the sub channel trim as set by Audyssey, and then watch a good action flick. Adjust the sub level up a bit to taste as needed. As I'm sure you know from reading FAQ's, many people perceive a lack of bass after running Audyssey because the EQ filters have reduced some boomy peaks that were present pre-calibration, which may sound "loud" but are not accurate. The "flat" bass after calibration can sound a bit low when you are used to boomy uncalibrated bass. So watch some good content and find a happy place.

Then, onto music. As noted above engaged Dynamic EQ will help boost the bass, but a lot of people prefer a meatier sound with music than the flat calibration provides. So feel free again to simply bump up the subwoofer as needed, although be aware that you are unlikely to find a single setting that will work for ALL music due to the inconsistencies of recording standards. That's why using a film is a better way to judge.

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post #4439 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 10:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

To add to the above...

Quote:
Sub at -11.0db means gain knob on sub is too high. Adjust until that result is +3.0 db to -3.0db.

First, let's clear up a misconception -- there is absolutely NO need to re-run Audyssey because the subwoofer came in at -11dB. The only reason to re-run would be if the sub trim was fully "maxed out " at +/-12dB. The ONLY potential detriment to a -11 trim for the sub is if the voltage from the sub out is too low to consistently trigger the sub's auto-on circuit. If the sub's auto-on circuit is triggering consistently, then it is perfectly fine, the calibration (EQ) for the sub is unimpacted by the trim level.

The only other minor negative would be that you have limited "wiggle room" for lowering the sub volume, but in this case he would like to boost the sub so it's a non factor. If he decides he likes more bass he can simply bump the sub up from -11 to -8 or -6 or whatever.

Lowering the gain knob a bit and then re-running Audyssey so the trim comes in at, say, -3 instead of -11 would not change sound quality or output volume in any way (assuming identical mic positions of course). It certainly will NOT make the bass louder, because the sub will still be calibrated to 75dB just like all the other speakers.

So there is no need to re-run Audyssey, just some education and minor settings tweaks.

The higher you push the gain or volume knob on the sub, the more susceptible it and its wiring is to hum pick up. The optimum setting for this knob is as CCW as you can go and still be well below max on the sub trim in the AVR. With the usual +12 to -12 range on the sub trim on the AVR someplace between 0 and 8 are good goals.
Quote:
Quote:
Unfortunately the PSW505 does not have a gain knob, only a volume control.

The knob on a subwoofer (or any amplifier) is ALWAYS a gain knob. It may be labeled as "Volume" to make it more understandable for the end user but it's still a gain knob. There is a difference, although it's not really relevant for this discussion. The bottom line is that the volume/gain is fine where it is, but if you choose to re-run Audyssey at a later date you might as well lower it a bit from 50% to ~30% so you get a slightly higher trim setting (although again keeping my first point above in mind, it's purely for convenience not to improve sound quality).

+1
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post #4440 of 8725 Old 12-27-2013, 11:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
The higher you push the gain or volume knob on the sub, the more susceptible it and its wiring is to hum pick up. The optimum setting for this knob is as CCW as you can go and still be well below max on the sub trim in the AVR. With the usual +12 to -12 range on the sub trim on the AVR someplace between 0 and 8 are good goals.

Thanks Arny -- assuming there is no audible hum however, is there any sound quality downside to say a 50% gain knob with -11dB trim vs. a 25% gain knob with a -2dB trim?

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