The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 151 - AVS Forum
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post #4501 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 09:15 PM
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Hopefully this is not too redundant. Having lost the first x2000 after attempting a firmware update and the unit being locked in a firmware loop that would not allow it to recover in any way,  I have finally received the replacement. I am not planning on doing any kind of firmware update for obvious reasons at this time. 

 

However, having used the unit for a couple of days now, and having connected a dedicated SACD player via its analog outputs and a universal player via its analog outputs, I have realized that even in direct and pure direct mode, the x2000 shows that you can adjust the main speakers to an 80hz crossover point with small fronts and engaging the sub, which requires the unit to convert all incoming analog signals to digital for processing. Thus, making the receiver have absolutely no ability to provide any higher resolution than its own internal A/D converters and subsequently its own D/A conversion. 

 

So there is no use in purchasing or connecting anything to do with sacd or dvd-a. Or even more importantly there is no need in connecting my outboard phono pre and turn table as there is absolutely no analog getting through.

 

The most this unit is capable of is the on board 24/192 d/a and the dts and dd hi res codecs.

 

If have missed something please let me know.  This appears to be a significant downside and so restrictive that it completely takes any other Denon universal disc player (or any manufacturer for that matter) out of the loop. Affording it ONLY the streaming of hi res downloaded music from USB thumb drive and the any network connected hard drives strictly.

 

Thanks for any additional information. I would love to learn I am wrong here. I just have to wonder, however, why a manufacturer would put such a restrictive design in play with all that is changing in the world. And to be fair, there is really no mention of this type of restriction in any literature or reviews that have been published thus far.

 

I appreciate the help.

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post #4502 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maytime View Post

Yeah, when he told me $450 I laughed and thought he was messing with me...and then when I realized he was serious I was thinking "damn they mark these things up like crazy"

Not quite as this is WELL below dealer cost. His company simply sells them at a loss as an employee benefit apparently.

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post #4503 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 09:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I think im seeing random green flashes on my display.

I dont know if this is from the Denon but I just bought a new ZT60 and bought brand new monoprice hdmi cables. I swapped my older ones out to rule the hdmi cables out as the problem.


Any known issue with the Denon X4000 and random green flashes when watching content?

I havent done a frimware update yet....

Nope.

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post #4504 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 09:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by torsionbat View Post

I got my audio and video working on the zone two output. After messing around and reading the manual it came down to me not having the hdmi cable seated properly in the avr. One thing I couldn't find in the manual was if it's possible to assign an different audio source while watching tv through my cable box. What trying to do is be able to watch sporting events on the tv but have the speakers output audio from my PC using my hi def gpu. I have the gpu connected to the avr via hdmi cable through the media player input. Is it possible to assign two different audio sources to a single video source and be able to toggle from one audio source to another?

Sorry, but not from two different HDMI sources no. You would simply have to set them up as two different sources.

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post #4505 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 09:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjv247 View Post

Hopefully this is not too redundant. Having lost the first x2000 after attempting a firmware update and the unit being locked in a firmware loop that would not allow it to recover in any way,  I have finally received the replacement. I am not planning on doing any kind of firmware update for obvious reasons at this time. 

However, having used the unit for a couple of days now, and having connected a dedicated SACD player via its analog outputs and a universal player via its analog outputs, I have realized that even in direct and pure direct mode, the x2000 shows that you can adjust the main speakers to an 80hz crossover point with small fronts and engaging the sub, which requires the unit to convert all incoming analog signals to digital for processing. Thus, making the receiver have absolutely no ability to provide any higher resolution than its own internal A/D converters and subsequently its own D/A conversion. 

So there is no use in purchasing or connecting anything to do with sacd or dvd-a. Or even more importantly there is no need in connecting my outboard phono pre and turn table as there is absolutely no analog getting through.

The most this unit is capable of is the on board 24/192 d/a and the dts and dd hi res codecs.

If have missed something please let me know.  This appears to be a significant downside and so restrictive that it completely takes any other Denon universal disc player (or any manufacturer for that matter) out of the loop. Affording it ONLY the streaming of hi res downloaded music from USB thumb drive and the any network connected hard drives strictly.

Thanks for any additional information. I would love to learn I am wrong here. I just have to wonder, however, why a manufacturer would put such a restrictive design in play with all that is changing in the world. And to be fair, there is really no mention of this type of restriction in any literature or reviews that have been published thus far.

I appreciate the help.

Not sure what you mean by "no analog getting through" as that is the whole point of DIRECT/PURE DIRECT modes. However, a moot point as the majority of posters that have used SACD players with multi analog outputs or DIRECT/PURE DIRECT (neither of which uses Audyssey) vs. HDMI (which does use Audyssey) , much prefer the audio over HDMI with Audyssey.

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post #4506 of 8165 Old 12-28-2013, 10:08 PM
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Well what I mean is that the analog inputs on the x2000 are converted to digital so that bass management can be applied and the front L+R speakers can be set with an 80Hz crossover point. That said, advanced resolution material from the analog output of sacd or dvd-a players are not relevant due to that initial conversion from analog to digital. To be clear, when I said that there was no analog getting through, I meant as in "from input to output with no conversions" of any kind with the exception of those that took place in the player. Now I understand that using MultEQ XT with an hdmi connection has many supporters. But I believe there are some concerns with multiEQ downcoverting 24/192 material to 24/96 to apply is processing, be it positive or not. Which in its essence negates the necessity of anything over 24/96, obviously. But more imortantly, as the x2000 does not support anything dsd internally, the only way to enjoy any music in that format is to download it and convert to pcm and then stream (or purchase one of the many dsd d/a converter out there now like the Loki which not an option either), which is fine, or to use the analog outputs from a sacd player and not have it converted which I believe it does. 

 

With all that, I am assuming that your follow up comment affirms that the analog inputs are digitized for processing, making the sacd or vinyl options non existent. I was merely saying that Denon should, to be fair to there customers, make that very clear as the downloading of various formats and physical media such as sacd and vinyl are essentially abandoned and will require another setup, which fortunately I have in my two channel system. It is just very unfortunate that with the fast movement of these others options is not supported.

 

And although I am happy that many people seem to enjoy the use of multEQ applied to analog stereo signals, it is unfortunate that it is the only option as anything coming from the player is null and void. And more to the point, not all advanced resolution players support hi res audio playback over hdmi, particularly if they are more than 12-24 months old, forcing you to use the analog outputs.

 

Thanks for you time and any validation of the x series not converting all analog input to digital would be terrific.

 

thanks again.

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post #4507 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 04:42 AM
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Receivers with multichannel audio inputs are the only ones with analog inputs which are guaranteed not to be digitized. Unfortunately, the least expansive receiver in Denon's current lineup which has multichannel inputs is the X4000.

However, the Marantz SR5008 does include them and has a price similar to the X2000. Most Denon resellers also handle Marantz, so you might be able to persuade them to do an exchange.

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post #4508 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 04:58 AM
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No multichannel inputs on the X4000

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #4509 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 04:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I think im seeing random green flashes on my display.

I dont know if this is from the Denon but I just bought a new ZT60 and bought brand new monoprice hdmi cables. I swapped my older ones out to rule the hdmi cables out as the problem.


Any known issue with the Denon X4000 and random green flashes when watching content?

I havent done a frimware update yet....

Sounds like an intermittent handshake issue. Is it happening while you are just sitting there watching tv, or when you change a channel?

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post #4510 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 05:04 AM
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From 2010 onward, the only models with EXT IN inputs have been the 4311CI and its successor, the current flagship 4520CI.

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post #4511 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 05:22 AM
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Thanks everyone else for the assistance. I understand the usefulness of the multi channel in. I own a marantz 7000 and a modified lexicon dc2 (which has an analog input that bypasses all processing).  To be clear, the marantz from what i can tell, even with the multi ch in, does not digitize the analog inputs but has been removed from my multi channel room to make room for the new Denon.

 

Which is exactly why I was so disappointed. The Denon literature and current reviews have no indication at all that the analog inputs are designed strictly for legacy gear and the intention was to digitize those inputs and bring them to current digital standards. In fact, they do the exact opposite, they lead you to believe that those inputs are precisely for the "purist" nature of the analog side. I have even seen reviews that specifically mention you will need to connect an out board phone pre to accommodate such an interest and even to connect an out board dsd d/a converter. But that is just not true. What would be the point in connecting phono rig for it to be, at the end of the day, digitized. It completely defeats the purpose.

 

Thanks again for the insight.

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post #4512 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

No multichannel inputs on the X4000

Oops. You're right. Sorry. I was just taking a quick look at the picture of the back panel and saw all the RCAs. I should have looked closely at the labels.

In other words, the only current Denon receiver with multichannel inputs is the AVR 4520. (and I looked more closely at its back panel just now!) Which is quite a bit more expensive.

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post #4513 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mjv247 View Post

Thanks everyone else for the assistance. I understand the usefulness of the multi channel in. I own a marantz 7000 and a modified lexicon dc2 (which has an analog input that bypasses all processing).  To be clear, the marantz from what i can tell, even with the multi ch in, does not digitize the analog inputs but has been removed from my multi channel room to make room for the new Denon.

Which is exactly why I was so disappointed. The Denon literature and current reviews have no indication at all that the analog inputs are designed strictly for legacy gear and the intention was to digitize those inputs and bring them to current digital standards. In fact, they do the exact opposite, they lead you to believe that those inputs are precisely for the "purist" nature of the analog side. I have even seen reviews that specifically mention you will need to connect an out board phone pre to accommodate such an interest and even to connect an out board dsd d/a converter. But that is just not true. What would be the point in connecting phono rig for it to be, at the end of the day, digitized. It completely defeats the purpose.

Thanks again for the insight.

For most people, Audyssey provides a substantial improvement in audio quality which far outweighs the subtle differences in pure analog data paths. Of course, if you have carefully selected speakers in a well treated room, that's much less of a factor.

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post #4514 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

For most people, Audyssey provides a substantial improvement in audio quality which far outweighs the subtle differences in pure analog data paths. Of course, if you have carefully selected speakers in a well treated room, that's much less of a factor.

Ive noticed since XT, Audyssey has come a long way and I generally think it sounds excellent, if done properly.

The cheap boom stand and mic adapter in the front of the Audyssey thread was a great $35 investment from Amazon. X4000 is still on tap for arrival tomorrow, so Ill be running XT32 tomorrow afternoon.

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post #4515 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Nope.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Sounds like an intermittent handshake issue. Is it happening while you are just sitting there watching tv, or when you change a channel?

well this sucks i just bought cables from monoprice and my tv is brand spanking new.

it happens randomly. any content. ps3, cable, xbox 360. but its very rare which makes it hard to test for. probably once a day and i use my system for about 5-6 hours.

so i guess im glad to hear the denon isnt the issue......ill look into using other spare hdmi cables bc an hdmi handshake issue sounds plausible

thanks guys ill get back to u with an update soon
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post #4516 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:55 AM
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Are they active redmere cables, or passive normal ol HDMI cables?

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post #4517 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 07:01 AM
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oh and i think i spotted a bug within the x4000

when switching the x4000 off and going back to the tv there is no volume to be heard from the tv unless i turn the denon back on and switch the sound settings from avr to tv and back again.

then i turn the denon off and voila the sound comes through the tv when using a source connected to the receiver

it just started to happen actually. when switching between sources with the denon on i have no problems with sound from the theater speakers but when i turn it off the sound doesnt get transferred to the tv unless i turn the denon back on and fiddle with the sound output

any ideas?

hdmi pass through is obviously enabled
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post #4518 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 07:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

Are they active redmere cables, or passive normal ol HDMI cables?

passive regular 15 foot hdmi cables
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post #4519 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 07:05 AM
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You got me then.

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post #4520 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 07:10 AM
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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

oh and i think i spotted a bug within the x4000

when switching the x4000 off and going back to the tv there is no volume to be heard from the tv unless i turn the denon back on and switch the sound settings from avr to tv and back again.

then i turn the denon off and voila the sound comes through the tv when using a source connected to the receiver

it just started to happen actually. when switching between sources with the denon on i have no problems with sound from the theater speakers but when i turn it off the sound doesnt get transferred to the tv unless i turn the denon back on and fiddle with the sound output

any ideas?

hdmi pass through is obviously enabled

I would encourage you to review posts #3-6 at the beginning of this thread. In post #4, I discuss known issues, one of which involves the Standby Pass through feature.
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post #4521 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 08:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I think im seeing random green flashes on my display.

I dont know if this is from the Denon but I just bought a new ZT60 and bought brand new monoprice hdmi cables. I swapped my older ones out to rule the hdmi cables out as the problem.


Any known issue with the Denon X4000 and random green flashes when watching content?

I havent done a frimware update yet....
I have seen this issue with my PS3->x4000-->ST50. I thought my PS3 was dying but it only happened for one show's Blu-ray Discs. I cannot seem to reliably reproduce either (does not occur in same scenes).
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post #4522 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 02:09 PM
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Quick question (might be dumb). Would it be possible to set up a Sonos system using the AVR-X4000 as the media server (instead of using a PC), since the X4000 is connected to my network anyway? I would like to get full house audio, but am not convinced running speaker wire all over is any more cost effective than just buying a Sonos system.

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Originally Posted by maytime View Post

Quick question (might be dumb). Would it be possible to set up a Sonos system using the AVR-X4000 as the media server (instead of using a PC), since the X4000 is connected to my network anyway? I would like to get full house audio, but am not convinced running speaker wire all over is any more cost effective than just buying a Sonos system.

Nevermind, asked Crutchfield and they said no

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post #4524 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 03:10 PM
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I have the Denon X4000

Problem is Denon isnt transferring sound through to tv after unit has been shut off.
HDMI pass through is enabled.
HDMI I Audio Out is set as AVR
HDMI Control is Off
Pass Through Source is Last
Viera Connect on my Panasonic ZT60 is disabled

All my HDMI cables are fairly new with exception of 2 new cables bought this weekend. All are 1.4 high speed cables less than 20 feet.

Ive fiddled already with the settings and noticed switching HDMI Audio Out to AVR to TV and back to AVR and then switching the Denon off the sound will pass through to the tv but if I turn the tv off and back on again the sound is lost and I have to repeat the soft fix to get sound through the tv.

Currently I have to set HDMI Audio Out to TV from AVR and leave the Denon on in order to get sound from my tv. I dont really like to use the theater speakers for light gaming and light tv watching so that is why I am doing that.

Any suggestions?

FWIW I havent updated the firwmare on the Denon at all. Its fresh out of the box firmware.
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post #4525 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:11 PM
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^^
Not sure why you are reposting this question as I answered it just a few posts back. smile.gif

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post #4526 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I would encourage you to review posts #3-6 at the beginning of this thread. In post #4, I discuss known issues, one of which involves the Standby Pass through feature.

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Originally Posted by music_to_my_ear View Post

I have the Denon X4000

Problem is Denon isnt transferring sound through to tv after unit has been shut off.
HDMI pass through is enabled.
HDMI I Audio Out is set as AVR
HDMI Control is Off
Pass Through Source is Last
Viera Connect on my Panasonic ZT60 is disabled

All my HDMI cables are fairly new with exception of 2 new cables bought this weekend. All are 1.4 high speed cables less than 20 feet.

Ive fiddled already with the settings and noticed switching HDMI Audio Out to AVR to TV and back to AVR and then switching the Denon off the sound will pass through to the tv but if I turn the tv off and back on again the sound is lost and I have to repeat the soft fix to get sound through the tv.

Currently I have to set HDMI Audio Out to TV from AVR and leave the Denon on in order to get sound from my tv. I dont really like to use the theater speakers for light gaming and light tv watching so that is why I am doing that.

Any suggestions?

FWIW I havent updated the firwmare on the Denon at all. Its fresh out of the box firmware.

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
Not sure why you are reposting this question as I answered it just a few posts back. smile.gif

Because you told me too and i even made it all neat and tidy
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post #4527 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:29 PM
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I read post #4 regarding standby pass through issues and didnt find anything that helped
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post #4528 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:30 PM
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The first page says the E400 doesn't accept banana plugs but I've heard that it can be done. Anyone on here have experience with banana plugs on the E400? That is the only thing keeping me from purchasing it...
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post #4529 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:44 PM
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Why are banana plugs important? E400 has nice spring clip binding posts, bare wire it and move on...
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post #4530 of 8165 Old 12-29-2013, 06:51 PM
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That is an option but if I don't have to take them off, that would be great.
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Denon Avr 2309ci Receiver , Denon Avr4310ci Receiver , Denon , Denon Electronics , Polk Audio Monitor70 Series Ii Floorstanding Loudspeaker , Onkyo Tx Nr626 7 2 Channel Network Audio Video Receiver , Denon Avr E200 , Denon Avr E300 , Denon Avr E400 , Denon Avr X2000 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X3000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X1000 5 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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