The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 175 - AVS Forum
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post #5221 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 09:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

April for that model, YMMV.

 

Thanks, I can wait a few months.

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post #5222 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 09:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Rofl, $122 in Canada biggrin.gif I'll try the HomeSpot one. I could use it at several places (main HT setup, secondary HT setup, even my car) so it probably won't be a waste.

Another disadvantage of going bluetooth though is that you specifically have to switch inputs on the receiver, whereas DLNA/UPnP and AirPlay gets priority on the Denon, and it automatically starts playing when a stream is pushed.
According to Wikipedia, it's an AES-encrypted Apple Lossless stereo stream.
Oh, I also have an HTPC plugged in (running XBMC, which can in fact act as an AirPlay receiver on top of the AVR itself). It's great, and it's yet one more source of music. But the basic functionality of AirPlay / UPnP is basically "I'm in the kitchen and want to listen to music on the HT setup". With AirPlay, assuming your source is already playing on your phone, it's one swipe and one tap. If you want to do it with DLNA/UPnP, you have to open whatever you're playing on a DLNA/UPnP app, if possible. Then, it's basically a few taps aways, and it plays. If you're using a different source (e.g. HTPC or bluetooth receiver), then you either have to physcially go fetch the AVR remote, start the AVR control app, or physically go near the AVR to power on the receiver and switch sources. It sounds like minor differences, but in the end, it makes all the difference. My GF didn't use the HT setup prior to having an AirPlay enabled receiver -- it was just too much of a hassle.

Another reason why I like UPnP/DLNA and AirPlay (and also built-in net radio) is that sometimes, you just want to listen to music without having that ginormous TV all lit up in order to present the GUI.

Wow, that's twice what it cost me.

I'm using the Harmony Ultimate and have old android devices in my zones 2 and 3 with the app runnin so switching inputs is really easy for me. You can use the XBMC remote app to control music without turning the TV on can't you? The way that the Network inputs hijack zone 1 is super annoying.

Believe me I wish all this stuff in the AVR just worked. We all have to make it work for us the way we want.
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post #5223 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post


Not sure if passthrough mode bypasses the magic Marantz electronics, but evidently, both amps had a very similar FR. Audyssey MultEQ XT did a better job at room correction than YPAO however, in my opinion.

Very insightful. I've only tested the Yamaha V475 which has a much more simple room correction, and the difference between that and MultEQ XT was huge. The Yamaha DSP and EQ sucks in comparison, which is why I'm so determined to get a Denon. When will the new 2014 models be announced and on sale? Given that I want Spotify Connect, I have to wait for this year's generation.

 

Edit: nevermind, I see that it's in April. Man, waiting sucks!

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post #5224 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 11:00 AM
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What do people prefer for stereo music listening with 5.1 speaker setups, Neo:6 Music or Dolby II Music? (I'm mostly interested in the differences between the two and what people prefer, ignoring for a second that many people probably just listed to music in normal 2.0/2.1 stereo.)

 

On my previous Pioneer VSX-D1011, I always thought Neo:6 sounded much better than Dolby PL2, but I suspect the algorithms have changed since then (this was back in 2001/2002) because I actually think Dolby sounds pretty good on the Denon X3000, more interesting to listen to compared to Neo:6 which feels like it has a more narrow sound stage, more closely resembling stereo sound I guess.

 

Anyway, just curious to hear what people think! I tried to search for this but all I could find was older threads and I suspect that the technology keeps evolving.

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post #5225 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 12:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Tenser View Post

What do people prefer for stereo music listening with 5.1 speaker setups, Neo:6 Music or Dolby II Music? (I'm mostly interested in the differences between the two and what people prefer, ignoring for a second that many people probably just listed to music in normal 2.0/2.1 stereo.)

On my previous Pioneer VSX-D1011, I always thought Neo:6 sounded much better than Dolby PL2, but I suspect the algorithms have changed since then (this was back in 2001/2002) because I actually think Dolby sounds pretty good on the Denon X3000, more interesting to listen to compared to Neo:6 which feels like it has a more narrow sound stage, more closely resembling stereo sound I guess.

Anyway, just curious to hear what people think! I tried to search for this but all I could find was older threads and I suspect that the technology keeps evolving.


On my X-2000 I use PLII Music for all 2 channel music listening. I like it better than Neo:6 Music because of the Panorama setting, as well as the dimension setting. DTS seems as little too "2 channel" like, which some may prefer, but if I want to listen in stereo, than that's what I would chose. PLII Music just sounds more enveloping to me.

Getting it to sound right with DEQ was a pain, and that is a whole different thread. wink.gif
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post #5226 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I'm using the Harmony Ultimate and have old android devices in my zones 2 and 3 with the app runnin so switching inputs is really easy for me. You can use the XBMC remote app to control music without turning the TV on can't you? The way that the Network inputs hijack zone 1 is super annoying.

I've got an Harmony 650 so I'd have to go fetch it anyway smile.gif I wonder if the Tasker Android app can be used to automate the Denon app... (For example, switching the AVR input to HTPC when starting the XBMC app). I'd have to look into that.

It's true that I could switch inputs but not turn the TV on, then blindly open XBMC and use the app to control it. Or open the TV and then close it. But using a Harmony remote, you probably know how fun it is to place your setup in limbo state biggrin.gif Though I guess in this case it wouldn't be that much of a problem. I still would have to go fetch the remote in the living room.
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Believe me I wish all this stuff in the AVR just worked. We all have to make it work for us the way we want.

+1 to that! IMHO the AVR-X4000 is really close to perfection. I'm really bitching about Android here -- it missed the boat early on and don't seem to want to do any catching up. Of course being Canadian, I can't use most of the services so no Spotify or Pandora for me anyway. I can't comment on that aspect. The only think I'd need (and was really surprised to find it wasn't there) is the ability to enter an arbitrary net station.

I also have an Onkyo 818, which I liked, but had various problems in terms of streaming music. Only the Onkyo app can turn the 818 on -- it doesn't turn itself on when you stream UPnP/DLNA to it. So it was a hassle, and it doesn't have AirPlay. Furthermore, I regularly made its whole network stack crash (requiring a reboot in the form of unplugging and re-plugging the unit) using BubbleUPnP, one of the best UPnP app on Android. But, you could manually configure up to 40 net radio stations by entering their URLs directly in the web config. The X4000 works seamlessly with UPnP/DLNA and AirPlay, but... the only way to access net radio stations is through searching the list made available by Denon. Turn out, out of the dozens of Digitally Imported stations they list, they're missing dear old Drum'n'Bass biggrin.gif

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post #5227 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 01:29 PM
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Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

OK, I have my two speakers hooked up, but I cannot figure out how to get pandora to play through them, which is zone 2. How do I SEE on the screen what is going on? I have to push 'network' to get to the screen where pandora is, but I cant even see the screen when I push 'zone 2'.

What is the process here? Im reading the manual, but its not doing what I want.

Anyone have any insight on this? How do I get a GUI to work with to see whats going on for Zone 2?
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post #5228 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 01:44 PM - Thread Starter
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There is no GUI for other zones. You'd have to use the Denon smartphone/tablet remote app or the web browser interface to see what's happeningin the other zones.

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post #5229 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PolishDude View Post

When does Denon normally release their new models for the year. I am in the market for the X4000 but fear that the price will drop drastically once the new model is released/announced or the new one will have features I will want? I currently have a Pioneer Elite SC-63 so can hold out for longer if need be.

As the main feature upgrade for the 2014 models will be HDMI 2.0 (which the majority of owners will not be able to take advantage of), it is highly unlikely the price for the X4000 will drop much below its successor.

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post #5230 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 02:18 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

There is no GUI for other zones. You'd have to use the Denon smartphone/tablet remote app or the web browser interface to see what's happeningin the other zones.

Ok. Cool. Long as I'm not missing it. How do you access the web interface? RTFM ?
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post #5231 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 02:19 PM
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I wanted to thank JD publicly for giving me an excellent deal on the X4000, which is a noticeable improvement over my prior setup. Pleasure dealing with you!
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post #5232 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 02:20 PM
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You're welcome! smile.gif Glad to see you are enjoying your new X4000!
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post #5233 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 02:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post

Ok. Cool. Long as I'm not missing it. How do you access the web interface? RTFM ?

Just enter the units' IP Address from the GUI - Setup - Network - Information.

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post #5234 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 02:39 PM
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So I've had my Denon 4000 for about 3 months now... aaaand I just last night learned how to toggle through the surround modes. (just in case i'm not the only doofus out there, you have to hold down the sound modes buttons, not just press them) Hopefully now I'll enjoy the performance of the receiver a bit more. It was doing just normal DTS on DTS soundtracks but PlIx (or whatever) + cinema for Dolby TrueHD soundtracks (eq was activated in the menu btw). I can only assume the "cinema" mode activates or increases the eq because DTS tracks were almost painfully bright, not to mention having a collapsed soundstage compared with Pllx.

I had swapped in my Onkyo 806 while the Denon was sent off for repairs and was watching Summer Wars (pretty good movie, AMAZING sound design) and was floored by how much bigger and smoother the sound coming out of my speakers was. That was when I really started to dig into the Denon. I thought the difference was all in the THX modes on the Onkyo. Didn't get a chance to play with it last night but tonight I will. Giggidy.
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post #5235 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 03:05 PM
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^^
This is discussed in post #4 of this thread, For a lot more helpful information, review posts #3-6 on page 1 of this thread.

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post #5236 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 04:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by javanpohl View Post

So I've had my Denon 4000 for about 3 months now... aaaand I just last night learned how to toggle through the surround modes. (just in case i'm not the only doofus out there, you have to hold down the sound modes buttons, not just press them).

Anybody figure out how to do this with a Harmony Remote?

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post #5237 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by HaydenAVRX4000 View Post

Hey Everyone,

I have since got everything working now yay!!  New problem though, I seem to be turning music volume to -6db to feel like its loud enough to rock out.  I did audessy setup and all my levels are -11db. Could my Audessy mic be messed up?

EDIT: probably should say I have tried spotify, pandora, fm radio and played itunes via optical cable from desktop.

.bump

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post #5238 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:00 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

Yep, it's a good idea, but my wife would throat punch me if I asked her to do that eek.gif

Ahh the old Apple Punch. Been there😒
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post #5239 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:15 PM
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Originally Posted by HaydenAVRX4000 View Post

Hey Everyone,

I have since got everything working now yay!!  New problem though, I seem to be turning music volume to -6db to feel like its loud enough to rock out.  I did audessy setup and all my levels are -11db. Could my Audessy mic be messed up?

EDIT: probably should say I have tried spotify, pandora, fm radio and played itunes via optical cable from desktop.

A lot of owners generally prefer music listening at higher (near reference 0db) volume levels (when allowed to that is wink.gif). You are likely using very efficient speakers (ie. 98-100db) which is why the AVR lowered them to -11db to calibrate to the 75db test tone.
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post #5240 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:30 PM
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Hi,
I have a question and hopefully someone can answer it. I transferred my movies from my VCR with (Video 2 PC) onto a external HD on my iMac. Quicktime is the default player. Is there a way to plug into the usb in the front of my AVR-X4000 and play my movies? Or do I need to buy Apple TV? Way too many to burn, hoping there is a way.

Thanks
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post #5241 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:35 PM
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^^
USB is audio only so either HDMI or Apple TV.
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post #5242 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
USB is audio only so either HDMI or Apple TV.

Thanks JD!! My external HD only has a usb. Looks like I'll need to buy Apple TV or go with the burning of DVD's.
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post #5243 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 05:47 PM
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Got the app and outdoor speakers on zone 2 working. To listen to my ipod though, it looks like the main zone has to be on so that zone cannot be different than zone 2 like with other sources.
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post #5244 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 06:15 PM
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There are lots of discussion in subwoofer threads about stereo music sometimes lacking bass. I noticed the same and for that reason decided to slightly bump my sub trim level.

However I just noticed something that totally changes the game. I usually listened to music in MULTI CH STEREO mode, which just duplicates what is sent to the mains to the surrounds. There is no volume compensation when in this mode, and this results in about +6 dB SPL compared to running in STEREO mode (when running a 5.1 system... you get a bit under +6 dB in-room due to the surrounds, and a bit more yet due to the center channel being involved as well).

But the sub channel is not raised: I'm pretty sure of it. (EDIT: but perhaps I'm wrong here?) So if you're running the same crossover for all channels, you get a totally out of whack frequency response with much more emphasis (twice the level or more) for frequencies above the crossover.

I just tried the two surround modes (Dolby PL II and DTS Neo:X) and... wow. At first it all sounds muddy because volume is lower and bass is more prevalent. (PL II also seems to send more to the surrounds compared to Neo:X). But after adjusting volume or just letting a few seconds pass -- it's very clear that bass is much more present under those modes.

I just wanted to share that finding and eventually get confirmation that I'm not totally wrong on this...
EDIT: Perhaps I'm just poor at judging things and the surrounds mode are just bumping bass?

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post #5245 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post

Anybody figure out how to do this with a Harmony Remote?

On my 650 I added both Music & Movie modes to my LCD screen for all of my activities. I only use them for PCM signals, as I use PLII Music for 2 channel PCM stereo, and PLII Cinema when a movie is in 2 channel PCM. Otherwise, I just don't need it for multi channel signals as I just decode those natively.

Doing the above, only cycles between Movie and Music modes and whatever default setting they are set to. You can press and hold the button which will bring up the menu, but the remote wont cycle within the menu because it is talking to the other device, like my DirecTV, Blu-ray player or Roku.

To change the default decoder within either mode with the 650, I go to the 'device' screen in the 650, where I can now use the remote's up, down and select buttons to swap between different decoders. You have to add Music, Movie, Game ect to the device section however, as they are not there with the default setting.

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post #5246 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 06:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post


A lot of owners generally prefer music listening at higher (near reference 0db) volume levels (when allowed to that is wink.gif). You are likely using very efficient speakers (ie. 98-100db) which is why the AVR lowered them to -11db to calibrate to the 75db test tone.

ok cool, Btw since my speakers have high efficiency is it ok to go past 0 db I did once and took it up to like 12 db just to see if I could have my wife hear it down the street.

 

I didn't hear any clipping and she heard it well too lol =)


My setup

Monster Power Filter

PS3/PS4

DENON AVR-X4000

Klipsch Reference 5.1

   - Center RC-35

   - Sub RSW-12

   - Two Tower RF-82 II (for front L/R) (Bi-amped)

   - Two Bookshelf RB-35 (using as rear L/R)

SAMSUNG 40" LED 120 HZ (Model# UN40B7000WFXZA)

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post #5247 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 07:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Lyons07 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
USB is audio only so either HDMI or Apple TV.

Thanks JD!! My external HD only has a usb. Looks like I'll need to buy Apple TV or go with the burning of DVD's.

Since you mention burning DVDs... Do you have a Blu-ray player? Most of them play video files from a usb device, so long as the files are in formats they recognize.

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post #5248 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 07:08 PM
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I take the "OVER" on the April release date...

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post #5249 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

There are lots of discussion in subwoofer threads about stereo music sometimes lacking bass. I noticed the same and for that reason decided to slightly bump my sub trim level.

However I just noticed something that totally changes the game. I usually listened to music in MULTI CH STEREO mode, which just duplicates what is sent to the mains to the surrounds. There is no volume compensation when in this mode, and this results in about +6 dB SPL compared to running in STEREO mode (when running a 5.1 system... you get a bit under +6 dB in-room due to the surrounds, and a bit more yet due to the center channel being involved as well).

But the sub channel is not raised: I'm pretty sure of it. (EDIT: but perhaps I'm wrong here?) So if you're running the same crossover for all channels, you get a totally out of whack frequency response with much more emphasis (twice the level or more) for frequencies above the crossover.

I just tried the two surround modes (Dolby PL II and DTS Neo:X) and... wow. At first it all sounds muddy because volume is lower and bass is more prevalent. (PL II also seems to send more to the surrounds compared to Neo:X). But after adjusting volume or just letting a few seconds pass -- it's very clear that bass is much more present under those modes.

I just wanted to share that finding and eventually get confirmation that I'm not totally wrong on this...
EDIT: Perhaps I'm just poor at judging things and the surrounds mode are just bumping bass?

Doesn't the sub get the re-directed bass frequencies (those below the crossover settings) from all of the channels used in multi-channel stereo? Wouldn't this have the effect of increasing the gain of the signal sent to the sub to compensate for the additional channels being used?

I've wondered this myself, as I sometimes use multi-channel stereo, rather than stereo when listening to music.

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post #5250 of 8182 Old 01-30-2014, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

On my 650 I added both Music & Movie modes to my LCD screen for all of my activities. I only use them for PCM signals, as I use PLII Music for 2 channel PCM stereo, and PLII Cinema when a movie is in 2 channel PCM. Otherwise, I just don't need it for multi channel signals as I just decode those natively.

Doing the above, only cycles between Movie and Music modes and whatever default setting they are set to. You can press and hold the button which will bring up the menu, but the remote wont cycle within the menu because it is talking to the other device, like my DirecTV, Blu-ray player or Roku.

To change the default decoder within either mode with the 650, I go to the 'device' screen in the 650, where I can now use the remote's up, down and select buttons to swap between different decoders. You have to add Music, Movie, Game ect to the device section however, as they are not there with the default setting.

Yeah, I've got a Harmony One. I have the Movie, Music, and Game mode commands mapped to touch screen buttons (because you can give these custom names, so you know what they are). Trouble is, the "press-and-hold" action doesn't work with the touch screen buttons. As soon as you touch the screen, it registers a single button press and nothing more happens by holding your finger to the button.

I could map those commands to physical buttons, but then I'd have to remember which ones they are, since you can't rename those.

I was wondering if anybody had found a workaround for this.

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