The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 178 - AVS Forum
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post #5311 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:14 PM
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I feel stupid, that was what did it.
Glad to "hear" you got it working! biggrin.gif
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post #5312 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:16 PM
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I have a quick question about running a sub 'hot'.

After about an hour and turning my PSW10 down to about 25-30% volume I finally got it to -2 DB (from -12). If I wanted to run it 'hot' do I just go into the levels and turn it up to +3.5 or so? I am sort of confused by the wording in the FAQ as it says run the test again..but i'd think that would set it to the -2db it was originally at?
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post #5313 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:24 PM
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Originally Posted by SeanWPayton View Post

I have a quick question about running a sub 'hot'.

After about an hour and turning my PSW10 down to about 25-30% volume I finally got it to -2 DB (from -12). If I wanted to run it 'hot' do I just go into the levels and turn it up to +3.5 or so? I am sort of confused by the wording in the FAQ as it says run the test again..but i'd think that would set it to the -2db it was originally at?

You don't need to run the Audyssey calibration again if you increase the subwoofer channel's level setting in the receiver.

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post #5314 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:27 PM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

You don't need to run the Audyssey calibration again if you increase the subwoofer channel's level setting in the receiver.

Ah alright, so it wouldnt mess anything up to just take it from -2DB up to +3 DB?
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post #5315 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:32 PM - Thread Starter
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No, the sub will still be EQ'd flat, it will just be "shelfed" up by 5dB relative to the other speakers instead of being level.
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post #5316 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:54 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

No, the sub will still be EQ'd flat, it will just be "shelfed" up by 5dB relative to the other speakers instead of being level.

Alright, thank you very much! I am guessing if the bass still isn't enough for me then I just re-run audyssey again (after adjusting the knob on my woofer) and get a lower -DB rating so I can increase it even higher?

Not saying I am going to be blowing out windows or anything, just figured i'd ask just to make sure that is alright to do..I definitely don't want to blow my sub by running it too hot.
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post #5317 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:57 PM
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Just remember that an increase of 10dB is the same as increasing the power output by 10x.

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post #5318 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by SeanWPayton View Post

Alright, thank you very much! I am guessing if the bass still isn't enough for me then I just re-run audyssey again (after adjusting the knob on my woofer) and get a lower -DB rating so I can increase it even higher?

Not saying I am going to be blowing out windows or anything, just figured i'd ask just to make sure that is alright to do..I definitely don't want to blow my sub by running it too hot.

Are you using Dynamic EQ?

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post #5319 of 8198 Old 02-01-2014, 06:58 PM
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Are you using Dynamic EQ?

Yep, have that on.

Sorry originally got dynamic volume confused with dynamic EQ
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post #5320 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 12:40 AM
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Anyone compare the X4000 to the Pio SC-1323K? The Pio is currently half the price of the X4000 and I'm really tempted but the XT32 seems so highly regarded I'm not sure what to do.
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post #5321 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 01:19 AM
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Anyone compare the X4000 to the Pio SC-1323K? The Pio is currently half the price of the X4000 and I'm really tempted but the XT32 seems so highly regarded I'm not sure what to do.

I dunno about the Pioneer, but I personally couldn't live without XT32 and I came from XT which is just one step down. They say room and speakers are the main thing for making up your sound, well I would say room correction is the third thing of importance.... XT32 has been one of the nicest boosts in sound quality that I can remember in a long time... Well in all honesty, jumping from YPAO in a Yamaha 663 to XT in a 3311 was also a nice boost, but XT32 has easily been the best and most memorable and now owning a unit with XT32 I couldn't even live with XT again, lol...
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post #5322 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 04:48 AM
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This. I was already a big fan of Audyssey, when I only had the XT version. I knew XT32 would be even better, but I didn't know how much better. To call it a "night-and-day" difference is an exaggeration, but not a huge one. The difference is definitely noticeable. The sound, from my speakers, in my room, became more smooth (less harsh, less bright), and more detailed and lifelike when I went to XT32 from XT.

I had upgraded speakers, from Paradigm's Monitor series, to the Studio series. It was a big improvement, especially for music. Still, with XT, I still found them just a little bright, and a little harsh with some upper mid-range frequencies. XT32 fixed those issues and now I feel like my speakers are playing to their true potential in my room.

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post #5323 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 05:13 AM
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Hi All:

I have an E400. My TV supports ARC, but I elected not to use this feature when setting up. I have connected an optical cable between my smart TV and the E400, but I am having trouble hearing TV sound through the receiver. Specifically, for example, if I access Netflix via the TV, then I am unable to hear the TV sound. I keep thinking that there must be a procedure, using the E400 remote, for hearing the sound. The "TV Audio" button seems like the obvious choice, but using it does not work--at least given my modus operandi. And, in this regard, the E400 manual seems to imply that this button works only in connection with ARC.

What additionally do I need to do to get TV sound out using the optical cable?

And, could my problem be that my TV sound source of interest is the internet, rather than a sound source (say a DVD player) built into my TV? Would using ARC solve my problem given that the source of interest to me is the internet?

Thank you very much for any help you can give.
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post #5324 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 05:39 AM
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znoddy,

Can you hear sound from other TV sources, like TV channels decoded by the TV's internal tuner?

If not, make sure that you've associated the receiver's digital input with the AVR's source that you've selected.

Also, please provide the exact model number of your TV. You might have overlooked a setting in it. Someone else looking at its manual might notice one which would make a difference. In general, you need to disable its internal speakers and/or specify that you're using an external sound system.

Many TVs can't forward multichannel audio to ARC or to their S/PDIF outputs, only stereo.

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post #5325 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by znoddy View Post

Hi All:

I have an E400. My TV supports ARC, but I elected not to use this feature when setting up. I have connected an optical cable between my smart TV and the E400, but I am having trouble hearing TV sound through the receiver. Specifically, for example, if I access Netflix via the TV, then I am unable to hear the TV sound. I keep thinking that there must be a procedure, using the E400 remote, for hearing the sound. The "TV Audio" button seems like the obvious choice, but using it does not work--at least given my modus operandi. And, in this regard, the E400 manual seems to imply that this button works only in connection with ARC.

What additionally do I need to do to get TV sound out using the optical cable?

And, could my problem be that my TV sound source of interest is the internet, rather than a sound source (say a DVD player) built into my TV? Would using ARC solve my problem given that the source of interest to me is the internet?

Thank you very much for any help you can give.

The "TV Audio" source name is not used exclusively by the HDMI(ARC) feature. As the default source name on the optical input is "TV Audio" this indicates that selecting this input on the remote would allow the AVR to play the audio from the optical input if audio is being received from the TV. Although you may have the HDMI-CEC feature (Anynet+, VierraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) disabled on the TV, the TV likely still needs to be set to "External speakers" or "Home Theater" to pass audio via the optical audio output.


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post #5326 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by SeanWPayton View Post

Alright, thank you very much! I am guessing if the bass still isn't enough for me then I just re-run audyssey again (after adjusting the knob on my woofer) and get a lower -DB rating so I can increase it even higher?

Not saying I am going to be blowing out windows or anything, just figured i'd ask just to make sure that is alright to do..I definitely don't want to blow my sub by running it too hot.

You do not need to re-run Audyssey. Just keep turning up the sub-woofer's level in the AVR until you are happy with it.
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post #5327 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 06:44 AM
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Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

znoddy,

Can you hear sound from other TV sources, like TV channels decoded by the TV's internal tuner?

If not, make sure that you've associated the receiver's digital input with the AVR's source that you've selected.

Also, please provide the exact model number of your TV. You might have overlooked a setting in it. Someone else looking at its manual might notice one which would make a difference. In general, you need to disable its internal speakers and/or specify that you're using an external sound system.

Many TVs can't forward multichannel audio to ARC or to their S/PDIF outputs, only stereo.
Thank you for your help. My TV is a Samsung 8000. Its manual does not say much about ARC. It basically says the ARC function allows "digital audio to output" to an ARC enabled receiver. I doubt that the output is restricted to stereo only. The TV's speakers are disabled, and I have specified the use of external sound system. I'll check out the TV's settings again to see if I can find anything else that might be pertinent.

You mentioned hearing sound from other TV sources like "like TV channels decoded by the TV's internal tuner." I have not attempted to do so. I have never used the TV's internal tuner for anything. I use only satellite. I'd be hard-pressed right now to even attempt to use the internal turner. But, I'd give it a try if thought to be necessary.

I am very unclear on whether I would need to follow your suggestion about making "sure that ... [I've] associated the receiver's digital input with the AVR's source that ... [I've] selected." The E400 manual is equally unclear (actually silent on this matter--as it is related to my case AFAIK). I am especially unclear on how I would make this association. If I read you correctly, then you are saying I might have to associate internet input to the TV via the TV's optical output and the E400's optical input. Is this interpretation valid?

Thanks again.
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post #5328 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 07:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znoddy View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by Selden Ball View Post

znoddy,

Can you hear sound from other TV sources, like TV channels decoded by the TV's internal tuner?

If not, make sure that you've associated the receiver's digital input with the AVR's source that you've selected.

Also, please provide the exact model number of your TV. You might have overlooked a setting in it. Someone else looking at its manual might notice one which would make a difference. In general, you need to disable its internal speakers and/or specify that you're using an external sound system.

Many TVs can't forward multichannel audio to ARC or to their S/PDIF outputs, only stereo.
Thank you for your help. My TV is a Samsung 8000. Its manual does not say much about ARC. It basically says the ARC function allows "digital audio to output" to an ARC enabled receiver. I doubt that the output is restricted to stereo only. The TV's speakers are disabled, and I have specified the use of external sound system. I'll check out the TV's settings again to see if I can find anything else that might be pertinent.

You mentioned hearing sound from other TV sources like "like TV channels decoded by the TV's internal tuner." I have not attempted to do so. I have never used the TV's internal tuner for anything. I use only satellite. I'd be hard-pressed right now to even attempt to use the internal turner. But, I'd give it a try if thought to be necessary.
That was just an example of something which originates within the TV as opposed to from a device which is plugged into one of the TV's HDMI inputs. I believe that a multichannel network audio source should be processed in the same way by the TV as an over-the-air multichanel TV channel.
Quote:

I am very unclear on whether I would need to follow your suggestion about making "sure that ... [I've] associated the receiver's digital input with the AVR's source that ... [I've] selected." The E400 manual is equally unclear (actually silent on this matter--as it is related to my case AFAIK). I am especially unclear on how I would make this association. If I read you correctly, then you are saying I might have to associate internet input to the TV via the TV's optical output and the E400's optical input. Is this interpretation valid?
Yes, that was what I was trying to say. The AVR has several "source devices" which can be selected (CD, TV, DVD, etc), but only a single optical audio input. By default, the optical audio input is associated with the AVR's TV source, but you can manually associate it with any of the others. If you bought the receiver as a discounted "open box" unit, for example, its previous owner might have done something like that and left it in that state.

According to the manual that I downloaded, you need to use a cable adapter to connect the TV's optical output to a standard optical cable. Maybe that adapter isn't properly seated or there's a bit of crud preventing an optically-transparent connection between the two cables.

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post #5329 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 07:39 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The "TV Audio" source name is not used exclusively by the HDMI(ARC) feature. As the default source name on the optical input is "TV Audio" this indicates that selecting this input on the remote would allow the AVR to play the audio from the optical input if audio is being received from the TV. Although you may have the HDMI-CEC feature (Anynet+, VierraLink, BraviaSync, etc.) disabled on the TV, the TV likely still needs to be set to "External speakers" or "Home Theater" to pass audio via the optical audio output.

Thank you for your reply. I forgot that the optical input is specifically labeled "TV Audio," so, yes, as seems intuitively logical, the "TV Audio" button on the remote should allow me to hear the TV audio (ARC or not)--at least generally speaking. I previously have tried setting the TV both ways--external speakers in use vs TV speakers in use. Neither works for me. Could my problem arise because the audio (of interest to me) reaching the TV is via the internet/network?
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post #5330 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 07:44 AM
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Anyone compare the X4000 to the Pio SC-1323K? The Pio is currently half the price of the X4000 and I'm really tempted but the XT32 seems so highly regarded I'm not sure what to do.
I have compared Pioneer Elite SC-72, Pioneer SC-1523-K (equivalent of Elite SC-75). To me none sound better than Denon X4000 with MultEQ XT32. MultEQ XT32 makes a day night difference when it comes to sound. Advanced MCACC from pioneer was a failure. The sound was quite dull to my taste. I even spent an hour to go through MCACC guide posted in MCACC thread. Still that didn't make any difference. I really wanted to keep pioneer because of D3 based amplifier. But with current MCACC, it doesn't worth my money. May be in future they might improve then I' might get one.

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post #5331 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 07:55 AM
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I have compared Pioneer Elite SC-72, Pioneer SC-1523-K (equivalent of Elite SC-75). To me none sound better than Denon X4000 with MultEQ XT32. MultEQ XT32 makes a day night difference when it comes to sound. Advanced MCACC from pioneer was a failure. The sound was quite dull to my taste. I even spent an hour to go through MCACC guide posted in MCACC thread. Still that didn't make any difference. I really wanted to keep pioneer because of D3 based amplifier. But with current MCACC, it doesn't worth my money. May be in future they might improve then I' might get one.

Hopefully I won't regret this but I bit the bullet on the Pioneer. It's a Gold Box deal and the price was just too good for me to pass on. Thanks to JD for making me a great offer on the X4000, I do appreciate it and thanks to everyone else for their replies. I will now graciously step away from this thread. smile.gif
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post #5332 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by znoddy View Post

Thank you for your reply. I forgot that the optical input is specifically labeled "TV Audio," so, yes, as seems intuitively logical, the "TV Audio" button on the remote should allow me to hear the TV audio (ARC or not)--at least generally speaking. I previously have tried setting the TV both ways--external speakers in use vs TV speakers in use. Neither works for me. Could my problem arise because the audio (of interest to me) reaching the TV is via the internet/network?

Nope. The whole point of HDMI(ARC) or the optical audio out is to pass the TV's smart/network app audio to an AVR. If you have disabled both Anynet+ and still no joy, then the issue is more likely one with the TV and not the AVR. However, you could also try disabling HDMI Control on the AVR if you have the selected.

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post #5333 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 08:06 AM
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Hopefully I won't regret this but I bit the bullet on the Pioneer. It's a Gold Box deal and the price was just too good for me to pass on. Thanks to JD for making me a great offer on the X4000, I do appreciate it and thanks to everyone else for their replies. I will now graciously step away from this thread. smile.gif

No worries. To each their own. You're always welcome back if it doesn't work out for you. smile.gif

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post #5334 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by znoddy View Post

What additionally do I need to do to get TV sound out using the optical cable?

Hi znoddy, double check the optical cable doesn't have any small protective plastic caps at end.Do you any source for testing, e.g xbox 360, BD player etc...? If not try another optical cable.
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post #5335 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 08:46 AM
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Nope. The whole point of HDMI(ARC) or the optical audio out is to pass the TV's smart/network app audio to an AVR. If you have disabled both Anynet+ and still no joy, then the issue is more likely one with the TV and not the AVR. However, you could also try disabling HDMI Control on the AVR if you have the selected.
Thank you very much again.

I apparently never set Anynet+ up. That should be the same as disabling it, right?

HDMI control is set to off. I will find a means of testing my TV's optical out, although I don't think I'll find anything wrong. It was working fine with my old receiver. But, who knows?

I now am regretting not using ARC in the first place assuming it would work. I have looked briefly at what might be involved in redoing the setup using ARC. I am guessing that the better way to proceed here would be to redo the setup from scratch. Is there an easier way to switch to ARC? Given my relative lack of familiarity with the E400, the manual isn't helping me a great deal in regard to how to switch to ARC.

I am not completely sure how to start from scratch again either. Would I need to reset the AVR? I don't find a reset instruction in the manual. Or, can I start over without resetting? And, in the later case, would I need to do the Audyssey part of the setup again.

Edit: The audio out on the TV is fine. I hear the Netflix sound through my Sony wireless headphone.
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post #5336 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 08:50 AM
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Znoddy, my brother has the Samsung 8000 and I got ARC to work on his. This is a stupid question but did you make sure the receiver is plugged into the ARC HDMI input (#2 I think)?
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post #5337 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 09:09 AM
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Thank you for your help. You may need to go back to my original post to see my problem more clearly. I did not set up for ARC use in the first place. I am trying to get TV sound via optical. But, I am aware of the ARC to ARC connection that much be used if trying to use ARC with the 8000. Read above, and you will see that I am thinking of resetting up to use ARC. Please stay tuned. It is good to know that ARC to ARC should work on the 8000.

Edit: I should have mentioned here and elsewhere that the 8000's digital out worked perfectly for TV sound on my prior receiver.
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post #5338 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 10:33 AM
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@JChin: Thank you for your input. The cable is good to go. Checked it out for sure earlier.
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post #5339 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 10:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by znoddy View Post

Thank you very much again.

I apparently never set Anynet+ up. That should be the same as disabling it, right?

HDMI control is set to off. I will find a means of testing my TV's optical out, although I don't think I'll find anything wrong. It was working fine with my old receiver. But, who knows?

I now am regretting not using ARC in the first place assuming it would work. I have looked briefly at what might be involved in redoing the setup using ARC. I am guessing that the better way to proceed here would be to redo the setup from scratch. Is there an easier way to switch to ARC? Given my relative lack of familiarity with the E400, the manual isn't helping me a great deal in regard to how to switch to ARC.

I am not completely sure how to start from scratch again either. Would I need to reset the AVR? I don't find a reset instruction in the manual. Or, can I start over without resetting? And, in the later case, would I need to do the Audyssey part of the setup again.

Edit: The audio out on the TV is fine. I hear the Netflix sound through my Sony wireless headphone.

There is no "reset" required to use ARC, rather you simply make the setting changes on the TV (ie. Anynet+, External Speakrs) and AVR (HDMI Control - ON). Make sure the optical input on the Denon is assigned to "TV Audio" in the GUI menu as well as making sure the "TV Audio" source wasn't set to "Hide".

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post #5340 of 8198 Old 02-02-2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

There is no "reset" required to use ARC, rather you simply make the setting changes on the TV (ie. Anynet+, External Speakrs) and AVR (HDMI Control - ON). Make sure the optical input on the Denon is assigned to "TV Audio" in the GUI menu as well as making sure the "TV Audio" source wasn't set to "Hide".
Thank you again very much.

I would have to switch the monitor cable on the E400 so that it connects to the ARC HDMI input on the Samsung 8000. It seem to me, therefore, that I would have to redo the setup.

You mention:

1. "setting changes"--Anynet+, external speakers on the TV. I though these already were correct--Anynet+ disabled (i.e., never set up in the first place) and speakers set to external. Do I have to use Anynet+? Are you saying the speaker setting should be changed to TV speakers on?

2. "Make sure the optical input on the Denon is assigned to 'TV Audio.'" This is the Denon default, right? I haven't changed it so it should be OK right?

Edit: I tried to check out "optical input on the Denon is assigned to 'TV Audio.'" I am unclear to how to do so?
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