The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 196 - AVS Forum
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post #5851 of 8851 Old 02-26-2014, 08:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

Just checked that setting - I already have it set to AVR under HDMI Audio Out.

HDMI Pass Through is On
and HDMI Control is Off
Pass through source is CBL/SAT

Those are my current settings on that screen.

I also checked the make sure the receiver wasn't on "mute" already.

I just don't get why in the Setup Assistant mode under Input Setup it works great with both video/audio but as soon as I exit that mode I get only video. Very frustrating!

If you are trying to pass the audio/video through to the TV while the AVR is in Standby, you'll need to set the cable box to STEREO or Dolby Digital to OFF if the box won't pass it through to the TV.

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post #5852 of 8851 Old 02-26-2014, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

I've got a Panasonic VT60 connected to an X3000. I can use the smart apps on the TV to play audio through the X3000. I do this NOT by using optical but by using the already connected HDMI cable.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't use ARC for this particular situation. It's there and with the correct modern gear (which your TV should be) it's trivially simple to use it.

That and I seem to recall some issues where using a TV's optical out is actually worse, but I can't recall the specifics. Not specifically related to the audio quality, but how the AVR and TV interpret this, especially when ARC is detected (by either of the devices).

It's actually the opposite as the optical audio out is always going to be able to pass either stereo PCM 2.0 or DD 5.1 while many TVs using ARC can only pass PCM 2.0. Also using ARC will always cause the AVR to switch to the "TV Audio" source when the AVR is first powered on and many prefer it to power on to the last source used which it will do when using the optical audio output from the TV.

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post #5853 of 8851 Old 02-26-2014, 08:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by geocab View Post

Hey guys,


I don't know if I'm going to get a Denon or Yamaha but this question applies to both so I'm asking it in their respective threads.

How many of you are familiar with the Denon Remote App on Android or iPad? The reveiws are averaging at 3 stars out of 5 in the Play Store so I'm wondering how well the app works. And how it compares to the Sonos system apps? I've see the Sonos app it is was pretty smooth and seamless in operation. My wife isn't into electronics and software unless it's a DVR remote, so unless it's simple to use, she'll have no interest in using the app.

TIA

For iOS there's also the DeRemote app. Does much more than the others and worth every penny to me.
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post #5854 of 8851 Old 02-26-2014, 09:21 PM
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What is the Cinema EQ setting in audio? I don't think it was there before the most recent update...I could be wrong though

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post #5855 of 8851 Old 02-26-2014, 10:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Considering it's been a setting in Denin AVRs for at least 10-15 years, pretty sure it was there before the firmware update wink.gif .... Plus, you know, had you actually checked you would have noticed it's in the manual, which would sort of punch a hole in the "it wasn't there until recently" theory tongue.gif

Remember that the available surround parameters are context dependent, not all parameters are available in all surround modes.

Cinema EQ is a high freq roll off that was originally intended to help mitigate harsh film soundtracks for translation to the home. It's essentially redundant with the Audyssey EQ curve which introduces it's own roll off, so the only reason to use it would be if you didn't use Audyssey and/or if if you felt you needed firer high freq attenuation beyond what Audyssey provides.

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post #5856 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 01:00 AM
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I am using the x4000 as a processor hooked up to two Emotiva Amps.

Last night I ran the latest firmware update and the volume level has jumped a good deal (maybe 20% louder at a guess), and I seem to have less bass.. it's almost as though the line levels have been lifted for the preouts going to the amps! but not for the subwoofer.

any ideas?

I'm sure I not going crazy, myself and wife commented on it immediately after firmware update using multiple sources inc Aple TV and Bluray player all using HDMI
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrumpff View Post

I am using the x4000 as a processor hooked up to two Emotiva Amps.

Last night I ran the latest firmware update and the volume level has jumped a good deal (maybe 20% louder at a guess), and I seem to have less bass.. it's almost as though the line levels have been lifted for the preouts going to the amps! but not for the subwoofer.

any ideas?

I'm sure I not going crazy, myself and wife commented on it immediately after firmware update using multiple sources inc Aple TV and Bluray player all using HDMI

Has there been a change in your Audyssey settings?

AT&T U-Verse Northeast Ohio

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post #5858 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:27 AM
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Have made no changes whatsoever.....

When I look through audessy settings and manual settings (levels/distances etc) nothing has changed?

But am guessing I may need to run audessy setup again which is a royal pain in the backside for a firmware update...
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^^

If your Audyssey settings survived the update, then so did the calibration data. I can't explain why you noticed this change in volume, unless you have DynVol on now but didn't before. I had no disruption of my x4000 after the update.

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post #5860 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Hi all - I currently use a Denon-compatible app on my Android to control it and play music via a media server on my PC. What I'm wondering is, most of the 'remote' apps available are very basic in functionality. Essentially, it only allows me to manually navigate my shared network folders and play songs one at a time. I'm wondering if there's a solution that enables me to queue songs, in essence, create a dynamic playlist.

On Android, BubbleUPnP is great... It allows building playlists from your mobile device's content or content found on media servers on your network, and play it (queued) on the AVR.

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post #5861 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 05:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

I've got a Panasonic VT60 connected to an X3000. I can use the smart apps on the TV to play audio through the X3000. I do this NOT by using optical but by using the already connected HDMI cable.

I'm not sure why you wouldn't use ARC for this particular situation. It's there and with the correct modern gear (which your TV should be) it's trivially simple to use it.

That and I seem to recall some issues where using a TV's optical out is actually worse, but I can't recall the specifics. Not specifically related to the audio quality, but how the AVR and TV interpret this, especially when ARC is detected (by either of the devices).

It's actually the opposite as the optical audio out is always going to be able to pass either stereo PCM 2.0 or DD 5.1 while many TVs using ARC can only pass PCM 2.0. Also using ARC will always cause the AVR to switch to the "TV Audio" source when the AVR is first powered on and many prefer it to power on to the last source used which it will do when using the optical audio output from the TV.

I should have clarified, it wasn't about the audio quality, it was about the 'dance' you have to go through with the inputs. But it's good to know about the DD5.1 possibility (which is a whole other dance given the nature of streaming apps and content sources). Yet another 'almost there' config issue, eh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the X3000 have an option to determine how the last source is used? As in, power back on to a specific source? Or is that just the HDMI bypass?

But then I don't use the 'power' button to turn it on, I use whichever mode is needed (CBL/SAT, GAME, etc). Those apparently accomplish both, powering it up if necessary and switching to that mode. I may be missing that it's defaulting to the TV Audio temporarily while it makes the switch.
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post #5862 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 06:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jrumpff View Post

I am using the x4000 as a processor hooked up to two Emotiva Amps.

Last night I ran the latest firmware update and the volume level has jumped a good deal (maybe 20% louder at a guess), and I seem to have less bass.. it's almost as though the line levels have been lifted for the preouts going to the amps! but not for the subwoofer.

any ideas?

I'm sure I not going crazy, myself and wife commented on it immediately after firmware update using multiple sources inc Aple TV and Bluray player all using HDMI

I also use the X4000 as a pre-pro, sending audio to an XPA-5. I've updated to the latest firmware and found no difference at all.

If you have a save file for your settings and Audyssey calibration, try re-loading it. If that doesn't help, you might need to run Audyssey again.

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post #5863 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 07:48 AM
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I have upgraded from a Denon 1712 to a Denon x4000 and I can't go back. I brought my 1712 in for repair because I thought there was something wrong (it was just the way klipsch sound with audyssey bc it sounded the same with x4000 after set up). I was in the store and was thinking. AaaaaaaaaOki'llgetadenonx4000andtryit. I can always return it right? At that time I was going to be without a receiver for 2 weeks while I awaited repair so I thought I'll just try this a week and return it. The increase in power and XT32 is just too good. I have watched a handful of scenes that I have seen a hundred times. I can give a handful of examples why I am so impressed.

-Opening Song of Lion king the singer sounds physically present in the room, like 3 feet in front of the TV. I have heard the term "ghost singer" but now I've actually heard it.
-The Grid to the games in Tron now the bass isn't as constantly overpowering, it only shows up when it's supposed to. And when it does it sounds more blended and impactful. It makes my subs sound more expensive.

So many other scenes with bass now the same story. I feel like I'm listening to exactly how it's supposed to sound. The voices from the front to back all the way to the LFE sound incredibly well blended. The surrounds are hard to locate and that's pretty impressive considering I sit 2 feet on front of the left surround. I remember when Sam was being fitted with his suit and the female voice in the room was explaining about his disk it sounded like she was "in the air somewhere" as opposed to coming from the speaker behind me. It's smoothed out my bass all the while making it slightly more impactful when it's needed. I didn't think that was possible. Always thought if I dialed it back I would just have to accept it wouldn't be as strong in the big moments. I wasn't planning on upgrading but I can't go back now after hearing how much it has improved my soundtracks.

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post #5864 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

On Android, BubbleUPnP is great... It allows building playlists from your mobile device's content or content found on media servers on your network, and play it (queued) on the AVR.
I must be missing something here. I thought the files in the server had to be loaded into Windows Media player?
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post #5865 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 08:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Teremei View Post

I have heard the term "ghost singer" but now I've actually heard it.
I've had exactly the same impression with the sound effects from the Xbox One when my boy's playing one of his Lego games on it. And I don't even have it fed into a 'proper' speaker setup, just an analog Polk soundbar. I have literally looked around the room on hearing some surround effects. The way the AVR manages to process the multi-channel input is pretty darned amazing.
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post #5866 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 08:04 AM
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Manually adjusting speaker levels post-Audyssey... yay or nay?

I just calibrated everything with my X2000. I already raised the subwoofer from -12db to -6db; I just like a lot of bass I suppose.

Also the center channel dialogue isn't as pronounced as it was with my last receiver. Does raising it a few db completely ruin the Audyssey calibration settings? This is my first time working with Audyssey and don't want to screw things up.

Lastly, I also find that I have to turn my volume up significantly higher than I did on my old Marantz. For example today on the X2000 I put the volume up to MAX which is 98 and while it was loud as hell and I probably wouldn't ever watch a movie at that level, I would have it at that level if I were hosting a party playing music and had a house full of guests down the hall. I found the volume of 92-93 to be on par with the reference level on my last receiver. The sound was crystal clear, but I felt it was a bit quieter than I would have expected. With my Marantz receiver I literally have no idea how loud it could have gone because at reference 0 it was plenty loud enough. I suppose the Marantz just had a lot more head room over the X2000?

Would raising ALL speaker levels equally after Audyssey sets them (say 2db each) completely screw things up, or is that ok as long as they are equal increases? I was thinking this would just give me a little more play in my volume control, but it's not a huge deal.
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post #5867 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 08:08 AM
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From what I've heard anything up to about 3.0 db is fine. Usually though it seems one would increase only one section because they feel the volume is too foward to rear. But if you increased all by 2.0 that wouldn't hurt sound quality.

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post #5868 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 08:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William K View Post

I must be missing something here. I thought the files in the server had to be loaded into Windows Media player?

Not necessarily -- any UPnP/DLNA server will do the job. The Denon AVRs can act as a UPnP media renderer as well as a UPnP client.

The BubbleUPnP Android app can act as a UPnP client, a UPnP server *and* a UPnP control point. So it can fetch media on any UPnP server, including itself, and send it to any UPnP media renderer, in particular your AVR.

WMP is only one of the compatible UPnP servers out there.
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post #5869 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Not necessarily -- any UPnP/DLNA server will do the job. The Denon AVRs can act as a UPnP media renderer as well as a UPnP client.

The BubbleUPnP Android app can act as a UPnP client, a UPnP server *and* a UPnP control point. So it can fetch media on any UPnP server, including itself, and send it to any UPnP media renderer, in particular your AVR.

WMP is only one of the compatible UPnP servers out there.

What he said, and then some! The trickiest parts here are coming to terms with what can or can't actually be done with all the various pieces involved. Some devices do not do as good a job as you think they should. That and the terminology isn't entirely clear. Thank the X-windows folks for the never-ending confusion about what is or isn't a "server". Some devices can be both, some do differently crappy jobs of either (or both).

So while you "should" be able to do X, Y and Z, you find all kinds of annoying little bugs along the way.

ALL of which get magnified 10-fold when you unleash using these 'features' upon your wife, children or guests...

I do look forward to the hope that I'll be able to configure the X3000 to do 'some' of this. But I've yet to determine if it'll have a decent WAF.
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post #5870 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 10:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by neutro View Post

On Android, BubbleUPnP is great... It allows building playlists from your mobile device's content or content found on media servers on your network, and play it (queued) on the AVR.

Thanks for the recommendation - I installed it earlier this morning and very briefly tinkered with it. It looks like this solution may work, but for some reason, the next song in the queued playlist would never start. I'll play around with it a little more later today once I'm back home.


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post #5871 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tezster View Post

Thanks for the recommendation - I installed it earlier this morning and very briefly tinkered with it. It looks like this solution may work, but for some reason, the next song in the queued playlist would never start. I'll play around with it a little more later today once I'm back home.

I've had this problem for the first time with my Denon X4000 -- it never did that on my Onkyo 818 (although it did have a bunch of other problems). So I think the problem basically is with the Denon AVR. Not sure exactly what I did to fix the problem. In the UPnP settings of BubbleUPnP, I began first by disabling all options that claim to do extra stuff that could affect performances or not be supported. (There are notes in the app telling you if you should disable the option in case you get a problem). With all those disabled, I think it did work well, so I re-enabled some.

Also if I remember correctly, the problem was mostly when playing content from a media server to the AVR, never content from my mobile device to the AVR. So the problem may also have been with the server.

Anyway this illustrates @wkearney99's point pretty well. For all its flaws, AirPlay works so much better than UPnP/DLNA...

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post #5872 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 12:49 PM
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Cheers tboe77

I will re-run audyssey..

Just out of interest though.. I do not use the onboard amps at all.. Using a XPA-2 for fronts and a XPA-5 for rears and center.
Are you using any on-board amplification?
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post #5873 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 12:55 PM
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Quick question, when I had run audyssey, when the receiver got to my subs it had mentioned being out of phase...is it suggesting the subs are or is it saying some channel in the system?

Couldn't tell if it was the sub because how could it be out of phase if using a subwoofer cable...

Thanks
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post #5874 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 02:45 PM
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^^
It was referring to your FL/FR speakers.

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post #5875 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

I should have clarified, it wasn't about the audio quality, it was about the 'dance' you have to go through with the inputs. But it's good to know about the DD5.1 possibility (which is a whole other dance given the nature of streaming apps and content sources). Yet another 'almost there' config issue, eh?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the X3000 have an option to determine how the last source is used? As in, power back on to a specific source? Or is that just the HDMI bypass?

But then I don't use the 'power' button to turn it on, I use whichever mode is needed (CBL/SAT, GAME, etc). Those apparently accomplish both, powering it up if necessary and switching to that mode. I may be missing that it's defaulting to the TV Audio temporarily while it makes the switch.

The normal setting is for the AVR (any model) to power on with the last source used (when the power on button is used). If the HDMI(ARC) setting is being used, the unit will generally power on to the TV audio source regardless of whether you select the power on button or one of the source buttons.

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post #5876 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BrutalBodyShots View Post

Manually adjusting speaker levels post-Audyssey... yay or nay?

I just calibrated everything with my X2000. I already raised the subwoofer from -12db to -6db; I just like a lot of bass I suppose.

Also the center channel dialogue isn't as pronounced as it was with my last receiver. Does raising it a few db completely ruin the Audyssey calibration settings? This is my first time working with Audyssey and don't want to screw things up.

Lastly, I also find that I have to turn my volume up significantly higher than I did on my old Marantz. For example today on the X2000 I put the volume up to MAX which is 98 and while it was loud as hell and I probably wouldn't ever watch a movie at that level, I would have it at that level if I were hosting a party playing music and had a house full of guests down the hall. I found the volume of 92-93 to be on par with the reference level on my last receiver. The sound was crystal clear, but I felt it was a bit quieter than I would have expected. With my Marantz receiver I literally have no idea how loud it could have gone because at reference 0 it was plenty loud enough. I suppose the Marantz just had a lot more head room over the X2000?

Would raising ALL speaker levels equally after Audyssey sets them (say 2db each) completely screw things up, or is that ok as long as they are equal increases? I was thinking this would just give me a little more play in my volume control, but it's not a huge deal.

When the AVR sets the sub to -12db, it means that the sub gain/volume knob is set to high. Lower the sub/gain knob a notch or two, say to around 7-9 o'clock, and rerun Audyssey again to get the level to something < -12db. After that feel free to raise the Sub Level setting on the AVR to your preference level. Raising the volume levels of the sub or speakers does not impact the EQ, rather set them to whatever is your preference. If you are using Dyn EQ (which you should be), then when watching cable/sat TV you may want to set the Reference Level Offset setting to 10db to reduce the bass/surround boost which will in turn improve the center channel dialogue quality. At the very least, ensure your center speaker is angled up towards your head and not pointing to your knees. Also, raising all the speaker levels by Xdb is no different than simply raising the master volume level by Xdb. And lastly, in general, to ensure there is enough headroom in the AVR, it's a good idea to never raise the master volume above reference level, either 80 or 0db, otherwise the unit may shut down in protection mode.

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post #5877 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:32 PM
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Ugh.... so while streaming audio to my x2000, I ran into the dreaded low volume problem described here: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1451338/denon-avr-1913-low-volume-when-streaming. I was increasing the volume via BubblePnP when this happened. Basically, any content I play back via Network mode is extremely low. I double-checked all the settings and they haven't changed - all other inputs are fine. I've already tried a reset to no avail. Anyone have any ideas on how to fix this? That is, other than boxing it up and sending it off somewhere (which would obviously be a huge inconvenience). I'm hoping someone has run across a solution. I don't understand how the simple act of streaming music can cause such a non-recoverable failure in how the unit operates.

So far, trying to stream music from my PC to the AVR the way I want has been an exercise in frustration.


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post #5878 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 03:51 PM
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Originally Posted by neutro View Post

Not necessarily -- any UPnP/DLNA server will do the job. The Denon AVRs can act as a UPnP media renderer as well as a UPnP client.

The BubbleUPnP Android app can act as a UPnP client, a UPnP server *and* a UPnP control point. So it can fetch media on any UPnP server, including itself, and send it to any UPnP media renderer, in particular your AVR.

WMP is only one of the compatible UPnP servers out there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wkearney99 View Post

What he said, and then some! The trickiest parts here are coming to terms with what can or can't actually be done with all the various pieces involved. Some devices do not do as good a job as you think they should. That and the terminology isn't entirely clear. Thank the X-windows folks for the never-ending confusion about what is or isn't a "server". Some devices can be both, some do differently crappy jobs of either (or both).

So while you "should" be able to do X, Y and Z, you find all kinds of annoying little bugs along the way.

ALL of which get magnified 10-fold when you unleash using these 'features' upon your wife, children or guests...

I do look forward to the hope that I'll be able to configure the X3000 to do 'some' of this. But I've yet to determine if it'll have a decent WAF.
It sounds like it might be a lot easier than continuously adding albums to WMP. There is no loss in sound quality right? I usually play FLAC files.
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post #5879 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 04:36 PM
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Cheers tboe77

I will re-run audyssey..

Just out of interest though.. I do not use the onboard amps at all.. Using a XPA-2 for fronts and a XPA-5 for rears and center.
Are you using any on-board amplification?

Nope. Mine is a 5.1 system.

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post #5880 of 8851 Old 02-27-2014, 05:37 PM
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Hey guys, while I still try to decide on my receiver (still looking toward the x2000) I just wanted to confirm that I would be fine with my current speakers which were part of my old HTIB set bought like 12 years ago when speakers were a lot better than today's HTIB.

Could give you stats manually but found some links listing my speakers:

https://indianapolis.craigslist.org/ele/4337241364.html

http://www.crutchfield.com/S-3CeynrOk69w/p_113HTB505/Kenwood-HTB-505.html

Quick question, my powered subwoofer has a crossover knob that allows me to change settings between 60hz to 200hz. What should I set this?
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