The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 205 - AVS Forum
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post #6121 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

Rules of thumb are often not applicable at the extremes of a price range.

I'm big into firearms, for example. People have rules of thumb for how much you should spend on ammo, or magazines, or how many magazines or rounds of ammo you should, per firearm, etc etc. And they are good rules of thumb, even if in some specific examples following them would be ludicrous. I can only imagine the same applies here. Like, if I buy a precision bolt action rifle chambered in .338 the number of rounds I "should" buy to go with it will be quite different than if I buy a Ruger 10/22. 

One must be intelligent and thoughtful enough, and educate themselves about a particular topic enough, to realize when their situation is an exception. Right?

That is what is getting missed in his haste to backhand people and prove how right he is and how wrong others are...
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post #6122 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 09:09 AM
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Originally Posted by gadgtfreek View Post

I think you are making yourself look bad. If you are as smart as you think you are you'd be able to interpret "good rule of thumb" as what it is.

If someone owns $15k speakers, they most likely will have or require amps, which added to the cost of a pre pro, is quite pricey. Between my amp and AVR, I've spent close to $2000, and my speaker cost is around $5000.

Stop acting like you know everything, because you are showing you do not. Also, just because it happens in your backyard it doesn't mean it applies to the entire world.

I'm not on here to try and impress anyone, I'm trying to help the new comers that may stop by looking for advice. You tell them what you want, I'm telling them to buy whatever AVR has the feature set to match your needs regardless of how much your speakers cost. This isn't my 1st week... rolleyes.gif

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post #6123 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 09:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Guibs View Post

Guys quick question regarding the HDMI switches in those Denon receivers and possible input lag when playing console games. I'm sensitive to it and would hate to introduce input lag to my console gaming by switching to a newer receiver with HDMI connectors. Does these AVR provide mode that add zero processing to the HDMI signal coming from the console to the TV with sound? I keep reaading about passthrough and some features you can disable on the HDMI level, will these allow to keep the AVR from adding any input lag? Most TV have some kind of a "game mode" to disable process and reduce input lag. Are these receivers equip ed with a similar feature?

thanks,

Yes, they are ... Video Mode = Game. smile.gif

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post #6124 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

I'll bet it is a "real" sale. I didn't see an X4000 at my store, but the X1000 for $349 sure makes it easy to believe the X4000 is at $999. 

I looked on the website (and everywhere else online I knew of) when I was shopping as well, and I never saw that price online. Even right now it still show $450 online...but in store it's $350.

I would make the trek to the store and have a look. Better yet, call them and talk to the HT/magnolia people first and ask them...

Thank you for the heads up. My Pioneer VSX-1021 died this weekend and I was looking at replacing it with the X1000. Was going to order it last night but didn't get around to it. Glad I waited! I called my local BestBuy (90 miles away). They did not have it in stock but they did order me one. Better yet, they are shipping it to me for free! FWIW, they told me the X2000 is currently on sale for $617.

Thanks again!
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post #6125 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 10:14 AM
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Not to mention there are other options as well. smile.gif
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post #6126 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 10:25 AM
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617 is not much of a sale, FWIW , there are indeed other places.

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post #6127 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 11:04 AM
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X-2000 update went well and took 44 minutes. I don't expect to see any differences myself, as I don't use any of the services that the update supposedly addressed. Thanks for all those announced the update was available, as I don't have my 2000 connected to the internet, and only do so to install the update.

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post #6128 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 11:08 AM
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So I have a question about my X4000 and the TiVo. When I skip through the ads, or when a show ends, the thing clicks like it's loosing signal or changing source feeds.

Is this OK? The reason i ask is the 805 it replaced never did that.

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post #6129 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 11:34 AM
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Tivos sounds are generated in PCM just like Directv I believe. The answer may be to take it off auto detect on signal type, ie. digital / analog / optical. Just keep it on Fixed. What happens is you are searching very quickly through the broadcast and it is switching from DD to PCM. Switch it to fixed and the relay clicking could subside. Just my experience, Its possible your 805 was not set to auto.

Code:
Denon AVR-4311CI:

Its found under source select / input mode/decode mode


Switch from Auto to DTS

Let me know how that works. What tends to happen is that when the track changes, that quickly switching from OS sounds( your tivo) to the track embedded in the DVR recording, it confuses the auto setting on the AVR. This happens with XBMC in both windows / linux, although the new audio-engine core in "Gotham" is better at handling this.

Its the same if you have ever tryed to get a signal aiming sound from Directv setup menu. You have to turn off DD / and change to PCM to hear it. Each component handles differently.

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post #6130 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 01:30 PM
 
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X4000 clicking relay when audio stops and starts.

-Anyone annoyed of this? I can hear it and the AVR is quite a ways away from the seating position.

Most noticeable commercial skipping FF/RW DVR operations etc..
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post #6131 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 01:36 PM
 
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Center channel high frequencies:

Previously with MultEQXT, my center channel was pretty much perfectly tuned for high frequencies.

It seems with XT32 that the center speaker has been calibrated to play a lot more of the upper range. So much so I'd like to dampen it down somewhat. I could describe it is being very tinny and harsh with medium to loud volume levels.
Is it possible to adjust down slightly whilst not affecting the rest of the calibration?
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post #6132 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 01:37 PM
 
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/as you may be able to tell I just set my new AVR up wink.gif
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post #6133 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:00 PM
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when you commercial skip does it play audio with scanning 30 seconds or so at a time? ie high speed audio playback??

If so, it is very likely that it is also played back in pcm 2.0, causing the Denon to sense a change in input signal.

If you confirm this, the fix is likely posted above in post #6130

I havent used tivo since an HR-250 from directv, but the Tivo gui sounds are likley the culprit in this case.

Another remedy could be switching off sound effects on tivo for navigation, This works in XBMC as well on linux , windows OS installations.

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post #6134 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

I'm in Best Buy right now, they have a stack of Denon x1000 AVRs for $349.99. lol

Thanks for this!
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post #6135 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:18 PM
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Hey all, question on the "easy connect" terminals on the E400. So these eliminate banana plugs as an option - is anyone using spade lugs instead? Or are the terminals just so well designed that bare wire works just fine?

Thanks.
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post #6136 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:23 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc88keyz View Post

when you commercial skip does it play audio with scanning 30 seconds or so at a time? ie high speed audio playback??

If so, it is very likely that it is also played back in pcm 2.0, causing the Denon to sense a change in input signal.

If you confirm this, the fix is likely posted above in post #6130

I havent used tivo since an HR-250 from directv, but the Tivo gui sounds are likley the culprit in this case.

Another remedy could be switching off sound effects on tivo for navigation, This works in XBMC as well on linux , windows OS installations.

Thanks for the assist. I use a HTPC. If you can imagine a DD or Pro Logic incoming stream stopping and starting each time you skip forwards or backwards. The same happens when it skips commercials automatically. The AVR loses incoming signal and it clicks. It then clicks again when the signal is resumed. My 2112 did not do this. The same thing happens with any source as it starts and stops, it's just quite audible for me.
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post #6137 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cbales24 View Post

Hey all, question on the "easy connect" terminals on the E400. So these eliminate banana plugs as an option - is anyone using spade lugs instead? Or are the terminals just so well designed that bare wire works just fine?

Thanks.

Bare wire should work just fine, but you can also using the thin pin banana plugs as I note in post #7 of this thread.

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post #6138 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:34 PM
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So adust the reciever to DTS vs. auto on the input signal for that hdmi input.

OR turn off internal sounds on tivo gui.


Let me know if it cures the issue you are experiencing. There are two different people in 3-4 hours that have mentioned this.


I had a 5300ES that did this too,

On a Directv box when you select Dolby Digital, the GUI sounds are silenced.

On XBMC via HTPC it will do both, but if you watch the AVR you can see it switching back and forth. Its more taxing for the AVR to do this of course. Every now and then it gets fouled up and you have to kill XBMC or restart the app, Its very rare though these days with Gotham Beta 1 "XBMC"

On Tivo it likes to fight between Digital Stream and those famous bubbles sfx "sent from the TIVO OS


Perhaps with enough feedback it can be addressed by denon with firmware changes but time will tell. It likely has to due with the autosensing and delay on the Input Mode / again....individually programmed for each source.

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post #6139 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:39 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Center channel high frequencies:

If it's any help Audyssey put the center speaker at 100Hz
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post #6140 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Center channel high frequencies:

Previously with MultEQXT, my center channel was pretty much perfectly tuned for high frequencies.

It seems with XT32 that the center speaker has been calibrated to play a lot more of the upper range. So much so I'd like to dampen it down somewhat. I could describe it is being very tinny and harsh with medium to loud volume levels.
Is it possible to adjust down slightly whilst not affecting the rest of the calibration?

Do you have the center channel angled up towards your head and if on a cabinet shelf, pulled out to the edge of the shelf? If not, reposition and run Audyssey again, ensuring the #1 mic position is where your head normally is and the additional 7 mic positions are within a 2'-3' radius around that number one position at the same head height (ie. not necessarily where others sit).

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post #6141 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nc88keyz View Post

So adust the reciever to DTS vs. auto on the input signal for that hdmi input.

Negatory wink.gif
Unfortunately the AVR still clicks set to PCM, DTS or auto.
It seems to be a 'feature' of the AVR.
It's not menu sounds, It's not a TiVo and I don't use any.

If I could send a constant stream of zeros the AVR would stay 'connected' and wouldn't click.

My question really boils down to whether it's annoying to others too?
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post #6142 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 02:48 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Do you have the center channel angled up towards your head and if on a cabinet shelf, pulled out to the edge of the shelf? If not, reposition and run Audyssey again, ensuring the #1 mic position is where your head normally is and the additional 7 mic positions are within a 2'-3' radius around that number one position at the same head height (ie. not necessarily where others sit).

Yes, it's angled up towards listening position. I was very careful with my eight measuring points. I'll try doing the sequence again I suppose.
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post #6143 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 03:12 PM
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SACD and AVR-X4000
I like the new X4000. I had previously been looking at the 4311. However, the X4000 does not have line level inputs for the surround channels from my Pioneer DVD/SACD player, as the 4311 does. Does anyone know if the optical or coaxial input on the X4000 will decode the SACD and DVD Audio output from an SACD player? Thanks.
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post #6144 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 04:18 PM
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^^
Optical will pass DD/DTS 5.1 and PCM 2.0 from the source player.
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post #6145 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Farley1 View Post

I'll bet it is a "real" sale. I didn't see an X4000 at my store, but the X1000 for $349 sure makes it easy to believe the X4000 is at $999. 

I looked on the website (and everywhere else online I knew of) when I was shopping as well, and I never saw that price online. Even right now it still show $450 online...but in store it's $350.

I would make the trek to the store and have a look. Better yet, call them and talk to the HT/magnolia people first and ask them...

I called my Best Buy and they don't have any X4000s, and they also had never heard of this sale on it for $999. frown.gif I was ready to go buy one tonight.
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post #6146 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 05:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by carlbarry View Post

SACD and AVR-X4000
I like the new X4000. I had previously been looking at the 4311. However, the X4000 does not have line level inputs for the surround channels from my Pioneer DVD/SACD player, as the 4311 does. Does anyone know if the optical or coaxial input on the X4000 will decode the SACD and DVD Audio output from an SACD player? Thanks.

Why would you NOT just use HDMI?

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post #6147 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 05:07 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by nc88keyz View Post

So adust the reciever to DTS vs. auto on the input signal for that hdmi input.

Negatory wink.gif
Unfortunately the AVR still clicks set to PCM, DTS or auto.
It seems to be a 'feature' of the AVR.
It's not menu sounds, It's not a TiVo and I don't use any.

If I could send a constant stream of zeros the AVR would stay 'connected' and wouldn't click.

My question really boils down to whether it's annoying to others too?

The "clicking" on the X4000 vs. the older receiver is due to the potential for "extra" speakes beyond the normal 5.1 setup. What are the specifics of your speaker setup?

The 2112, being a standard 7ch unit, had no opportunity to switch the two assignable amps to another speaker pair. With the X4000, that pair of amps could be potentially powering surround backs, front heights or front wides. There are mechanical relays inside the receiver that control this switching. When it locks onto the signal, it likely clicks the relay to engage the two "extra" speakers you have connected.

To test this theory, temporarily go into the Speaker Config menu (GUI > Speakers > Manual Setup) and deactive everything but the standard 5.1 speakers setup. Then test and see if it still clicks in the same situation.

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post #6148 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 05:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pieandchips View Post

Center channel high frequencies:

Previously with MultEQXT, my center channel was pretty much perfectly tuned for high frequencies.

It seems with XT32 that the center speaker has been calibrated to play a lot more of the upper range. So much so I'd like to dampen it down somewhat. I could describe it is being very tinny and harsh with medium to loud volume levels.
Is it possible to adjust down slightly whilst not affecting the rest of the calibration?

Sounds like Audyessy is doing something to the upper/mid range that you do not like. Try to re measure as has been suggested. Unfortunately when I previously had my X-4000 the treble only seemed to work on the FR and FL channels and not the centre or I would have suggested using that to help fix the upper range however it still would have done nothing for your mid range and even at best treble is a crude control. Can you take a picture of the corrected graphs and post them here to see what Audyessey is correcting for you.
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post #6149 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 05:22 PM
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Why would you NOT just use HDMI?
Because my DVD/SACD player does not have an HDMI output. It only has line level, optical, and coaxial outputs.
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post #6150 of 8633 Old 03-11-2014, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Got it. Unfortunately, as JD noted above, you will not be able to hear multich SACD's as SPDIF (optical/coax) is capable of only 2 channels of hi-rez PCM.
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