The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 22 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #631 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 03:14 AM
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Not sure if this is allowed or not, but just saw on dealnews that PaulsTV has a coupon for the X2000, regularly $649. Coupon REC15 brings it down to $551. Was going to jump on it this morning but I need to learn to ask the wife AFTER not before.

I do not work for dealnews or PaulsTV.

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post #632 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 03:53 AM
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^^
The nice thing about picking up the phone and "calling" AVScience sales is you do not need a coupon code and their price generally is quite nice. Give Craig a call and compare to the above. Then let us know which you chose. wink.gif

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post #633 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 03:59 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo1 View Post

Questions
1) In the Zone 2 setup menu, I'm still not sure what the HDMI Audio option does. The on-screen menus and the manual describe it this way:

HDMI Audio Selects the audio signal format for playing an HDMI source in ZONE2.
Through (Default) : The HDMI audio signal is passed through the AV receiver to the device in ZONE2.
PCM : The HDMI audio signal is converted to PCM format so you can listen to HDMI sound from the ZONE2 pre out or ZONE2 assigned speakers.

My impression was that HDMI audio must always be translated into PCM 2.0 in order to play on the 2 speakers in zone 2... So I am not sure what this does. Any suggestions?

Through - HDMI signal is passed through the HDMI (Zone2) out as is (ie. DD/DTS 5.1, DD 2.0, or PCM 2.0) and not processed (rather the processing is done by the HDMI sync (ie. TV or AVR) that the HDMI (Zone2) cable is connected to

PCM - HDMI signal is first converted to PCM 2.0 and then passed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts

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post #634 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 06:53 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The nice thing about picking up the phone and "calling" AVScience sales is you do not need a coupon code and their price generally is quite nice. Give Craig a call and compare to the above. Then let us know which you chose. wink.gif

Yeah, that was kind of my point as well (but not as nicely put as yours) with they guy that paid msrp but got "free" financing...
Craig is awesome. He even call to let you know stock status and shipping times as well..
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post #635 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 08:42 AM
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Hey, thanks guys. Be patient with me today - I'm a bit hammered from 3 hours in a roasting hot attic battling 12 gauge speaker wire followed by 2 1/2 hours swapping out recievers and installing some speakers. If you ever think about attaching your speaker wire to your framing in the rough frame stage, don't do it! It makes trying to pull new heavier wire in the future intersting to say the least......eek.gif

Anyway, I replaced my 4310 with a 4520 last night. But the reason for posting in this thread - wow, the Audyseey MultEQ XT32 is a big improvement ( in my somewhat treated room anyway ) over the last version I had. The soundstage is noticably more 3 dimensional. I also ran wire to and set up wide speakers. In fact, I'm so pleased with the improvement just going to 9.1 from 7.1 ( I used the last part of Zero Dark Thirty - the attack on OBL's compound as a test ) that I may blow off going to 11.2. The X4000 is a steal compared to the 4520 - if I didn't have 4 ohm speakers all the way around, I would have gotten a X4000 instead. It's great Denon included the MultEQ XT32 at this price point - and Neo: X sounds outstanding !! smile.gif

I was up until 1:15 am in my theater just going " wow " !smile.gif
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post #636 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 08:55 AM
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"Yeah, that was kind of my point as well (but not as nicely put as yours) with they guy that paid msrp but got "free" financing...
Craig is awesome. He even call to let you know stock status and shipping times as well.."




I understood that but price is not the only thing some buyers shop by.
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post #637 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 12:49 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cablebandit3 View Post

"Yeah, that was kind of my point as well (but not as nicely put as yours) with they guy that paid msrp but got "free" financing...
Craig is awesome. He even call to let you know stock status and shipping times as well.."




I understood that but price is not the only thing some buyers shop by.
Whatever floats your boat. AVS offers up an excellent price, has excellent customer service, and an excellent forum to participate on. If you are happy with your purchase that is all that matters...
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post #638 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 03:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Through - HDMI signal is passed through the HDMI (Zone2) out as is (ie. DD/DTS 5.1, DD 2.0, or PCM 2.0) and not processed (rather the processing is done by the HDMI sync (ie. TV or AVR) that the HDMI (Zone2) cable is connected to

PCM - HDMI signal is first converted to PCM 2.0 and then passed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts
Thanks jds. I am still a little confused by this though. I am not using the HDMI zone 2 cable for audio. The audio for zone 2 is just coming from the 6th and 7th speaker connections, which I have set up as the zone 2 speakers.

So I think in my setup, it doesn't matter what type of audio signal is sent through the HDMI 2 out. However, the PCM setting mentions the zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts, which makes me think it is the right choice. But when I switch between these two options, Through and PCM, it does not seem to make any difference.

Any more advice for this setting? If I leave it as through, and the signal is Dolby Digital 5.1, for example, would zone 2 only be playing the left and right channels of this stream and throwing out the other 3.1 data streams? Thank you!
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post #639 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 06:34 PM
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My understanding is that it is an either/or setting, so not sure why you're still getting audio to your Zone 2 speakers when the setting is set to "Through". Perhaps another X3000/X4000 owner can confirm?

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post #640 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 06:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

My understanding is that it is an either/or setting, so not sure why you're still getting audio to your Zone 2 speakers when the setting is set to "Through". Perhaps another X3000/X4000 owner can confirm?
That's what I thought too, but I just checked and it works fine with either setting. I called Denon and they were no help. The first thing the guy actually told me was that you can't play digital audio sources in zone 2. rolleyes.gif I will try their email support, and also give Crutchfield a call tomorrow to see if they have any ideas.
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post #641 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 06:50 PM
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Do you also by any chance have an analog cable connected from the HDMI source to the X3000?

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post #642 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 07:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Do you also by any chance have an analog cable connected from the HDMI source to the X3000?
Nope, thanks to the X3000 I'm analog-free!
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post #643 of 11490 Old 06-06-2013, 09:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablo1 View Post

Thanks jds. I am still a little confused by this though. I am not using the HDMI zone 2 cable for audio. The audio for zone 2 is just coming from the 6th and 7th speaker connections, which I have set up as the zone 2 speakers.

So I think in my setup, it doesn't matter what type of audio signal is sent through the HDMI 2 out. However, the PCM setting mentions the zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts, which makes me think it is the right choice. But when I switch between these two options, Through and PCM, it does not seem to make any difference.

Any more advice for this setting? If I leave it as through, and the signal is Dolby Digital 5.1, for example, would zone 2 only be playing the left and right channels of this stream and throwing out the other 3.1 data streams? Thank you!

That setting can only refer to the HDMI as it is the only digital output on the x3000. The pre-outs and speaker posts can only ever be 2 channel analog.

If you want multi-channel audio in zone 2, you would use HDMI set to "through" and decode/amplify it on the other end.

HTH
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post #644 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by wlr3 View Post

That setting can only refer to the HDMI as it is the only digital output on the x3000. The pre-outs and speaker posts can only ever be 2 channel analog.

If you want multi-channel audio in zone 2, you would use HDMI set to "through" and decode/amplify it on the other end.

HTH
That's what I thought... This setting only matters if you are getting audio through the HDMI 2 out, which I am not. But then why does the manual say this:
"PCM - HDMI signal is first converted to PCM 2.0 and then passed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts"
What does it have to do with the pre-outs and speaker posts at all? How can a PCM 2.0 signal be passed to analog outputs? Maybe it should say this: "The signal is always converted to 2-channel audio to be played on the zone 2 stereo speakers. In Through mode, the original audio signal is passed through the HDMI 2 out unmodified. In PCM mode, the audio signal is converted to PCM 2.0 before being sent out on the HDMI 2 out. This setting only matters if you are running audio signals through HDMI 2 out, such as to the speakers of a TV or to another AV receiver in zone 2. If you use the zone 2 speaker posts for zone 2 audio, this setting has no effect."

Sorry, that is a long way to say it. But the way it is written in the manual is not clear at all.
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post #645 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 09:29 AM
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Originally Posted by diablo1 View Post

That's what I thought... This setting only matters if you are getting audio through the HDMI 2 out, which I am not. But then why does the manual say this:
"PCM - HDMI signal is first converted to PCM 2.0 and then passed to the Zone 2 pre-outs and speaker posts"
What does it have to do with the pre-outs and speaker posts at all? How can a PCM 2.0 signal be passed to analog outputs? Maybe it should say this: "The signal is always converted to 2-channel audio to be played on the zone 2 stereo speakers. In Through mode, the original audio signal is passed through the HDMI 2 out unmodified. In PCM mode, the audio signal is converted to PCM 2.0 before being sent out on the HDMI 2 out. This setting only matters if you are running audio signals through HDMI 2 out, such as to the speakers of a TV or to another AV receiver in zone 2. If you use the zone 2 speaker posts for zone 2 audio, this setting has no effect."

Sorry, that is a long way to say it. But the way it is written in the manual is not clear at all.

Yep, you got it. Either the manual writer doesn't know what he's talking about or it was a poor Chinglish translation.

BTW, I'll be setting up my new X3000 this weekend - can't wait. smile.gif
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post #646 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 10:40 AM
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Now that the new Marantz receivers are out, and none look as fit-for-purpose for me, I am a step closer to pulling the trigger on an X-4000.

Goals:
- Entertain nieces and nephews with a kickin' 5.1 surround sound big-TV experience in the basement.
- My wife can have TV in the nearby exercise room off of the same cable box supporting the TV (zone 2).
- We support two outdoor speakers on the deck (zone 3) controlled by my iPhone ap.

This could be Way Cool.

1) Do I need to buy a special remote for the exercise room.
.
2) Do the deck speakers (zone 3) need a separate amp?
.
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post #647 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 11:17 AM
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Im watching HTTYD in 3d from my pc>X4000>plasma......this receiver just rocks.....I love how quickly it syncs the hdmi signal compared to my onkyo 3010. Im not using any video processing from the X4000 to the video from my PC but everything just works like it should and doesn't seem to be near as finicky. I'm in love with Home Theater once again! smile.gif
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post #648 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 04:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereYouGo View Post

Now that the new Marantz receivers are out, and none look as fit-for-purpose for me, I am a step closer to pulling the trigger on an X-4000.

Goals:
- Entertain nieces and nephews with a kickin' 5.1 surround sound big-TV experience in the basement.
- My wife can have TV in the nearby exercise room off of the same cable box supporting the TV (zone 2).
- We support two outdoor speakers on the deck (zone 3) controlled by my iPhone ap.

This could be Way Cool.

1) Do I need to buy a special remote for the exercise room.
.
2) Do the deck speakers (zone 3) need a separate amp?
.

1. Either use an IR extender kit or download the Denon remote app and use an iPhone, iPad, or Android phone.
2. Yup. 7.2 amps only on the X4000(5.2+Zone 2).
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post #649 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 04:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wlr3 View Post

That setting can only refer to the HDMI as it is the only digital output on the x3000. The pre-outs and speaker posts can only ever be 2 channel analog.

If you want multi-channel audio in zone 2, you would use HDMI set to "through" and decode/amplify it on the other end.

HTH

The setting focus is on the direction of the "source" not the specifically the HDMI (Zone 2) output.
Quote:
HDMI Audio Selects the audio signal format for playing an HDMI source in ZONE2
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post #650 of 11490 Old 06-07-2013, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The setting focus is on the direction of the "source" not the specifically the HDMI (Zone 2) output.
Not sure what you mean by "direction of the source"... All of my sources are HDMI, and they are all directed to the HDMI outs for video and the speaker posts for audio... Thanks!
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post #651 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 04:27 AM
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See post #633.

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post #652 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 04:45 AM - Thread Starter
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I'm out of the country on vacation so haven't been able to chip in much but perhaps this post of mine from earlier in the thread will help you understand the setting. It basically changes the EDID info on the receiver so the source "thinks" the receiver can only accept 2.0 PCM, causing the source to do the downmix when it senses the initial handshake. In the same way that if you connect your blu-ray player directly to your tv with HDMI it won't try to send a DTS HD soundtrack because it knows the tv won't decode it, it will send a stereo downmix instead.

If you send a 5.1 Dolby Digital source to the receiver and then try to output that to Zone 2 speakers it won't work for example. Only a 2.0 PCM digital signal can flow through to the zone 2 speakers, because it doesn't require any processing and can just go straight to a DAC for conversion to "legal" analog output.

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanmark View Post

Ok... super-interested in the multizone stuff from Batpig's post #143.

If I'm understanding it right, with an X3000 all my sources can be connected via HDMI and I can get the audio separated and down-mixed to the Zone 2 pre-outs that connect to my whole house amp? No need to run other audio connections from source devices?

If so, that's really cool.

As some clarification on my earlier post, some updated info:

- It is accurate that the X3000/X4000 can play ANY source, digital or analog, to other zones. However, for digital audio inputs, it will only work with a 2.0 PCM input stream. I now see this is noted clearly in the "Tips" section:




- My earlier thought was that you could play multich audio in main zone, and then the receiver would do a "background downmix" of the multich audio to 2.0 PCM when the ZONE 2 / HDMI AUDIO setting is set to "PCM". So, for example, you could be watching the football game in 5.1 Dolby Digital in Main Zone, and then play the audio from the game on the Zone 2 speakers in stereo with the main zone remaining on DD 5.1. However, this is not accurate -- the receiver itself doesn't do a downmix; rather, when you set that setting to "PCM", the EDID for the Zone 2 source is set to request 2.0 PCM from the SOURCE. So, in the example above, when Zone 2 and Main Zone are playing the same source (football game), the cable box would "see" that the EDID request is for 2.0 PCM, and would set itself to 2.0 PCM output. In other words, the source itself is forced to do the downmix to 2.0 PCM before the signal ever gets to the receiver, and thus the audio in BOTH zones will be 2.0 PCM. So the receiver would then switch to PLII Cinema (or whatever) to matrix the surround sound in Main Zone.

- If Main Zone and Zone 2 are not set to the same source, it's not an issue. So, for example, continuing with the example above. Let's say you have your cable box and Apple TV hooked up to the receiver with HDMI. You set the ZONE 2 / HDMI AUDIO setting to "PCM" to enable HDMI audio to Zone 2. You are watching the football game from the cable box in Main Zone, listening to the DD 5.1 broadcast. Now, you start streaming from music from the Apple TV to Zone 2. The Apple TV will see the EDID request from Zone 2 and provide "legal" 2.0 PCM output, and the HDMI audio will play in Zone 2 with no issues, and the football game will continue in 5.1 DD in Main Zone.


So, in simple terms -- whether you are using the HDMI Zone matrix output or the "standard" Zone 2/3 stereo audio output, if you select the same source for Main Zone and Zone 2/3, you will be limited by the "lowest common denominator" audio rule and the input signal will become 2.0 PCM stereo for all zones. If you select a different source for Zone 2/3 (or of course if Zone 2/3 is off) then the Main Zone will operate normally, and Zone 2/3 will seamlessly force a stereo downmix and can play digital sources without any additional cabling.

This is still a HUGE advance of course, as you finally can toss those analog RCA cables and play audio to any zone using only digital cables. Not quite the "holy grail" of a background downmix of multich digital input sources, but a huge step forward nonetheless.

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post #653 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 04:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by ThereYouGo View Post

Now that the new Marantz receivers are out, and none look as fit-for-purpose for me, I am a step closer to pulling the trigger on an X-4000.

Goals:
- Entertain nieces and nephews with a kickin' 5.1 surround sound big-TV experience in the basement.
- My wife can have TV in the nearby exercise room off of the same cable box supporting the TV (zone 2).
- We support two outdoor speakers on the deck (zone 3) controlled by my iPhone ap.

This could be Way Cool.

1) Do I need to buy a special remote for the exercise room.
.
2) Do the deck speakers (zone 3) need a separate amp?
.

1. Either use an IR extender kit or download the Denon remote app and use an iPhone, iPad, or Android phone.
2. Yup. 7.2 amps only on the X4000(5.2+Zone 2).

Actually if I'm reading his post right he does NOT need an extra amp for Zone 3. It looks like his Zone 2 applications will simply be feeding another tv with the HDMI zone output, leaving the last 2 amps free for assignment to Zone 3.

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post #654 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 04:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by diablo1 View Post

2) What have people found is the best way to deal with the default "power on" command on the Harmony One remote turning on both audio zones? I have seen suggestions of programming each zone's input select buttons separately, as these automatically send the power on signal when used. Or just using one of these zone input commands as the power on command, and have it switch sources to the desired source afterwards. I am going to set up my remote tomorrow, so wanted to know what had worked for people here.

Use an input command. I am still using the same Harmony profile I have been using for years (originally an AVR 2105) so I accumulate extra commands. When I upgrade to a newer model I will teach it any new commands on the remote and/or adjust the input commands as necessary.

When I ran into the "all zone power on" issue with my X4000 all I did was go into the device settings for the Denon receiver and tell it the "power on" discrete command was actually the "Input AUX" command. Works perfectly.
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post #655 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 05:42 AM
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Thanks to you both.
JD Smoothie and Batpig.

Since the X-4000 can run my viewing area, feed the TV in the next room, and support my deck music, I'll have a few extra budget $$$ for weather-worthy outdoor speakers.
Right now even the best speakers could not be louder than the cicadas !
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post #656 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 05:00 PM
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I may have missed this question on the iOS Control App in an earlier post...

I want to have 2 Denon receivers, X4000 and (x2000 or E400) in different rooms on the same home wifi network, and want to control them from the iOS app, are there any conflicts or problems? I don't want to have someone in the TV room making x4000 adjustments and the app sending the adjustment to affect the X2000 or E400 in the other room. My alternative is to get a different brand for 2nd room.

Thanks
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post #657 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shop per View Post

I may have missed this question on the iOS Control App in an earlier post...

I want to have 2 Denon receivers, X4000 and (x2000 or E400) in different rooms on the same home wifi network, and want to control them from the iOS app, are there any conflicts or problems? I don't want to have someone in the TV room making x4000 adjustments and the app sending the adjustment to affect the X2000 or E400 in the other room. My alternative is to get a different brand for 2nd room.

Thanks

No problem here, when you launch the iOS app, you will select which receiver you want to control, or if you feel the need to change to the other receiver, just go back to the start screen of the app and select the other one. Each receiver will have its own IP address on your network, so there is no chance of controlling both of them at the same time.. Also, with Apple AirPlay, you select which receiver you want to send the music to. AirPlay is also one receiver at a time if used from an iPhone, iPod or iPad.
Now if you use your computer, and from iTunes, you can select, again which device you wish to send the music to, or select "Multiple Speakers" to send your music to both receivers.

Hope this helps,

Ed

Denon AVR-X4000, Panasonic TCP-55VT50, OPPO BDP-103, DirecTV HR44-700, Apple TV
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post #658 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 07:20 PM
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Ed, Thank you for your clear answer. Cheers
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post #659 of 11490 Old 06-08-2013, 08:44 PM
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I had a problem once, having 3311 in one room & 3312 in another; but, there were twin 7 year olds in the loop, so, prolly operator error.

just 1 more pair of KLIPSCH Classic speakers...
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PANASONIC 60" PLASMA 3D, DENON AVR-3312CI, LG BD670 3D NETWORK BRD (iPhone APPs), TOSHIBA HD-XA2 HD DVD, SAMSUNG BD-UP5000 HD DVD/BRD, iPod 8 GB, 13.2: KLIPSCH La Scala 1980 (Crites Rebuilt Type AA Crossovers Sonicaps) FRONT, HERESY II "SIGNATURE EDITION" WIDE, HERESY II CENTER/SURROUND, kg2 SB, kg3/kg1 Front/Rear HEIGHT, RW-12d SW, km-rsw
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post #660 of 11490 Old 06-09-2013, 02:10 AM
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areadvd.de has completed their review of the Denon AVR-X2000 - June 6th

see this link

Oppo Beta Group
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