The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 274 - AVS Forum
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post #8191 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 12:23 PM
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^^
Nope. There should be no change to the stereo 2.0 being sent to the FL/FR speakers.

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post #8192 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 12:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post
When I listen to a stereo TV show and select DD PLIIx the audio seems to get split into the front-center and the L/R rears? I don't hear anything from the L/R fronts. Is there some setting I'm missing?
If you're in PLIIx movie mode any audio sent to both left and right will be rerouted (anchored) to the center channel. Music mode is different, try it.

Sometimes I'll listen to 2 channel streaming music sources with DTS NeoX Music. It doesn't touch the left and right channels but it does add a bit of center and surround
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post #8193 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 01:10 PM
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Thanks but I am specifically referring to TV shows where you would want the dialogue in the center channel and the 'side effects' in the front L/R. So music- game- and pure- modes don't apply.

My experience is that all the non-dialogue audio goes to the rear L/R. I actually thought (think?) it was a bug which would eventually be fixed in a firmware update, but it never was.
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post #8194 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 01:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post
My experience is that all the non-dialogue audio goes to the rear L/R. I actually thought (think?) it was a bug which would eventually be fixed in a firmware update, but it never was.
My experience with my X4000 is that the split is very program-dependent. Even on a single telecaster, like HBO, there is significant difference between programs. One particular commercial run often on CNN seems to be ALL rear channel!

I'm afraid there is no universal solution.

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post #8195 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 01:56 PM
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Well, since I had some unforeseen expenses come up recently. I had to adjust my budget for a new AVR. I wanted one of the new 2014 models that had bluetooth. Now I'm thinking, I haven't had it before, so I can deal with it, or I can get something like an x2000 and maybe add the bluetooth adapter, if I really want it.

Do these adapters need an external power source? I don't want any more little boxes with more little power bricks.


I really wanted 7 HDMI inputs, not including the front. I don't want a cable connected to the front.

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post #8196 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 02:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post
Thanks but I am specifically referring to TV shows where you would want the dialogue in the center channel and the 'side effects' in the front L/R. So music- game- and pure- modes don't apply.

My experience is that all the non-dialogue audio goes to the rear L/R. I actually thought (think?) it was a bug which would eventually be fixed in a firmware update, but it never was.
Does this happen with all programming or just certain programs? This kind of steering could occur with a mono signal, since any "in phase" content in the L/R channels will collapse to the center. The steering looks for differences in the channels to maintain the stereo effect but if there are no differences (mono) it will push it all to the center.

I'm inclined to believe it's not a bug but the way that content is coming in. Try something else, like the stereo track on a good DVD or blu ray.
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post #8197 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
My experience with my X4000 is that the split is very program-dependent. Even on a single telecaster, like HBO, there is significant difference between programs. One particular commercial run often on CNN seems to be ALL rear channel!
Thank you for the confirmation. My primary source here is Netflix though I also experience it with my kids DVDs
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post #8198 of 8291 Old 07-13-2014, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post
Thank you for the confirmation. My primary source here is Netflix though I also experience it with my kids DVDs
SD, it annoyed one of the clients in our remote control iPad app business so much that I had to add Center Channel Volume commands for him<G>.

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post #8199 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 06:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sdsalsero View Post
Thank you for the confirmation. My primary source here is Netflix though I also experience it with my kids DVDs
Kids DVDs are often recorded in mono with fits my theory. You might want to try PLII music mode instead of cinema, which spreads the center image across the speakers instead of trying to focus it in the center.

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post #8200 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 11:57 AM
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Does anybody know the correct Audyssey microphone positions for a loveseat? I have two "theater chairs" side-by-side which basically forms a loveseat with an armrest in the middle.

How does this chart look?


The black rectangles are the armrests and the white boxes are the two seats. The arrows point towards the front of the room.
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post #8201 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 12:00 PM
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^^
If you are the primary listener, better to focus just on your one seat (ie. slide 1 to either 2 or 3 depending on which seat is yours. Either way 1- 6 look good and then 7 would go 1/2 diagonal distance from 1 to 4 and 8 would go 1/2 diagonal distance from 1 to 6.

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post #8202 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 12:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post
Does anybody know the correct Audyssey microphone positions for a loveseat? I have two "theater chairs" side-by-side which basically forms a loveseat with an armrest in the middle.


The black rectangles are the armrests and the white boxes are the two seats. The arrows point towards the front of the room.
You do it by listening position. You want number 1 to be your primary position, followed up by the second seat. You can do the additional areas around it as you've suggested, but I think you'd be better off starting with an actual listening position, not something between them.

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post #8203 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 12:29 PM
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OK - Thanks!

I could've sworn I read on the Audyssey blog that if you only have a loveseat to measure the first position in the middle so it properly sets distance, etc. It also said that if you measure the PLP (primary listening position?) off-center that everything will then be measured off-center and cause other problems...
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post #8204 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 12:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post
OK - Thanks!

I could've sworn I read on the Audyssey blog that if you only have a loveseat to measure the first position in the middle so it properly sets distance, etc. It also said that if you measure the PLP (primary listening position?) off-center that everything will then be measured off-center and cause other problems...
Well you might not want to take my word for it then. Have you checked the Audyssey thread? It's quite long, but perhaps searching for love seat or loveseat will help.

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post #8205 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post
OK - Thanks!

I could've sworn I read on the Audyssey blog that if you only have a loveseat to measure the first position in the middle so it properly sets distance, etc. It also said that if you measure the PLP (primary listening position?) off-center that everything will then be measured off-center and cause other problems...
You set the mic ##1 position where you want the best audio. If you want that to be your armrest, then that is your choice.

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post #8206 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 02:24 PM
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I'm curious about the technology inside my X4000. Are the power amps historical Class AB bipolar transistors, FETs in an analog configuration, or some mode of switching amp?

Has Denon released any papers about their design?

Thank you!

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post #8207 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 03:51 PM
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Speaking of the Denon X2000 on clearance, we've only got 2 left with no more stock available, so call now if this model meets your requirements.

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post #8208 of 8291 Old 07-14-2014, 11:48 PM
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So it looks like the x4000 will only upscale analog through the front inputs :-/
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I have 2 denon mics in the same drawer. Can someone check their denon x4000 mic and tell me what the number printed on it is?

Sony KDL-70R550A
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post #8210 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 04:22 AM
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^^
Any Audyssey mic released from 2008 onward will work with the X4000 which is shipped with the ACM1HB mic.

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post #8211 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 04:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
So it looks like the x4000 will only upscale analog through the front inputs :-/
Any analog input can be converted/upscaled.

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post #8212 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 06:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2pacalypsenow View Post
So it looks like the x4000 will only upscale analog through the front inputs :-/
I'm not sure what you mean -- are you saying that the information on p229 of the Owners manual is not correct?

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post #8213 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
I'm not sure what you mean -- are you saying that the information on p229 of the Owners manual is not correct?
We must be looking at different manuals. What I see is a diagram showing that ANY component or composite video signal gets converted. That's not literally front inputs. It represents all analog video inputs. In any case, I have lots of analog inputs and they all get converted, front and back.
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post #8214 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 09:00 AM
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We must be looking at different manuals. What I see is a diagram showing that ANY component or composite video signal gets converted. That's not literally front inputs. It represents all analog video inputs. In any case, I have lots of analog inputs and they all get converted, front and back.
Exactly. 2pacalypsenow said "the x4000 will only upscale analog through the front inputs :-/" so I asked him if I understood him correctly since the manual does not make that distinction.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You set the mic ##1 position where you want the best audio. If you want that to be your armrest, then that is your choice.
I'm not trying to disagree with you because I honestly don't know what is best (which is why I'm asking for help!)

However, Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey employee) posted this on the Ask Audyssey forum:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Kyriakakis (Audyssey)
The first position should be in the center of the listening area. Usually, that is where the main seat is. If the seat is off to the side, we still recommend taking the first measurement in the center.
That's why I'm confused because I'm not sure if this information is outdated (it's from Februrary 28th, 2010) or not...
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post #8216 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 10:48 AM
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He is simply implying that ideally the main listening position should be the center. Why not just try two separate Audyssey runs and decide which you prefer? First try arm rest as ##1, listen for a few days or weeks and then your seat as ##1 and stick with whichever you believe provides the best audio experience. Or better yet, just move the two seats so yours is in the center?

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post #8217 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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The big question is whether you want the whole couch to be "equal" in terms of sound quality or if you want to optimize for one side or the other.

The key thing to understand is that with any speaker setup there can only be ONE sweet spot where everything is perfectly calibrated, with all the sound balanced and arriving to that spot at the same time. Audyssey sets the levels and delays based on the first mic position, so that is the spot where things will be "perfect" in that sense. The additional mic positions just feed the algorithm more data about the distribution of acoustic problems in the room.

So it's really a "philosophical" question. If the couch is perfectly centered to the TV and you are equally likely to sit on either side (or if both people are equally sensitive to SQ) then it's probably best to have the first mic position be perfectly centered and then balance the additional measurements across both seats. If you will nearly always be on the left side instead of the right, and/or the other person doesn't care that much about perfect audio, then you should probably shift the first position that way to make sure the levels/delays are optimized for that spot.

If it's a small loveseat then honestly it's not that big of a deal either way, being a couple of feet left or right of the perfect sweet spot shouldn't be that big of a problem in practice with any decent speaker setup.

But in reference to Chris' quote above, I would NEVER recommend having the first mic position be WAY off center. For example there are compromised living room setups where the main listening position is a couch over to the side of the room. It would be silly to try and optimize for something that terribly wrong to begin with.

It's really all about degree ... your loveseat is still basically "centered" so measuring SLIGHTLY off center won't be a huge deal. Just decide if you'd like both seats to be "equal" or would rather bias towards one or the other.
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post #8218 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 11:43 AM
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Going to ask again, as people apparently missed my question.

The bluetooth adapters for these models, do they require external power?

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post #8219 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 11:47 AM - Thread Starter
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What bluetooth adapter? That seems like a question for whatever adapter you happen to buy, not specific to the receiver.

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post #8220 of 8291 Old 07-15-2014, 11:49 AM
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Quote:
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Going to ask again, as people apparently missed my question.

The bluetooth adapters for these models, do they require external power?
Depends on the model you buy. If it doesn't come with power, then no.

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