The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 277 - AVS Forum
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post #8281 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 05:46 PM
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I have a quick question which probably has been answered but can't find it. I was playing a movie on my ps3 and noticed the sound was not the way it should be. I noticed that the format on my x4000 say multi ch in. Not sure why this has chAnged maybe the kids adjusted something by accident but I cannot get this to change from multi channel in. This sutuation affects all my HDMI inputs. So no matter were I plug my PS3 in always comes up the same multi ch in. When I switch over to cable/sat I'm fine it reads the Dolby or whatever source is being played. I need some help here on how to correct this situation as I've been working on this for a long time with no solution Thank!!
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post #8282 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 06:17 PM - Thread Starter
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MultiCH IN means that either the PS3 is set to decode the audio to multich PCM (i.e. unpacking the codec so the receiver gets uncompressed audio) or the movie has an uncompressed multich PCM track native (i.e. not packed into TrueHD or DTS or whatever). Have you tried any other movies? If it's happening with any movie, even if you select a compressed track, then you need to change the PS3 audio output settings to bitstream from PCM. If it only happens with that one movie, that means the movie has uncompressed PCM as the native soundtrack.

Did you, at any point, try and check the PS3 info (hit "Select") to see what it reports as the audio decoding?

Either way it has absolutely nothing to do with the receiver. And nothing is really wrong, the audio is exactly the same, it's just decoded before it hits the receiver.

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post #8283 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 06:56 PM
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X3000

Well after reading and researching the different Denon AVRs it came down to the AVR-X3000 and X3100W. I decided the X3k was the better value for my needs.
Tomorrow it will be delivered and I will be able to set it up, I'm so stoked. Currently I have a Bose Cinemate 1 2.1 and have just grown tried of it and it's lack of dialogue clarity. I am sure this will not be the case with my new Denon. I plan on using the X3k in a 7.1 set up with the following speakers:


Polk Monitor 15C center
Polk Monitor 65T L/R
Polk RCi80 in-ceiling front wide or height? (question coming about that)
Polk RCi80 in-ceiling surrounds
Polk PSW505 sub


My living room is very open and approx. 20x23 if that matters. My question concerning the front in-ceiling speakers which are around 45* off the center line from MLP to the TV. The front towers approx. 3' off the center line so they are 6ft apart from each other closer than I like or want but that is with in the keep my wife happy parameters. The front in-ceiling speakers are approx. 15' apart so they are 4-4.5' wider than the towers on each side and almost in line with the towers in terms of front to back distance from the wall the TV is on. So my question is are they considered front height or wides? I think this will play an import part in the Audyssey calibration. The Audyssey FAQ says go with wides when possible but with the speakers being in-ceiling my initial thought was call them height speakers. Being that I'm not sure I figured I'd ask the experts here to try to avoid a trail and error process with calibration. Thanks in advance for any help, forgive me if that isn't really the correct thread for this post but this is my first post after all. Hopefully I have explained my setup well enough for yall to provide a good answer.
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post #8284 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 06:57 PM
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Ok adjusted to PS3 setting from PCM to bitstream as it was happening on all movies. This solved the problem. It turns out my son had a problem with the PS3 a few days ago and had to rebot which more than likely changed the settings s this was a new issue. Thanks for the reply as it was a big help and a bit of good information making forward.
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post #8285 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 07:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gamecock24 View Post
Well after reading and researching the different Denon AVRs it came down to the AVR-X3000 and X3100W. I decided the X3k was the better value for my needs.
Tomorrow it will be delivered and I will be able to set it up, I'm so stoked. Currently I have a Bose Cinemate 1 2.1 and have just grown tried of it and it's lack of dialogue clarity. I am sure this will not be the case with my new Denon. I plan on using the X3k in a 7.1 set up with the following speakers:


Polk Monitor 15C center
Polk Monitor 65T L/R
Polk RCi80 in-ceiling front wide or height? (question coming about that)
Polk RCi80 in-ceiling surrounds
Polk PSW505 sub


My living room is very open and approx. 20x23 if that matters. My question concerning the front in-ceiling speakers which are around 45* off the center line from MLP to the TV. The front towers approx. 3' off the center line so they are 6ft apart from each other closer than I like or want but that is with in the keep my wife happy parameters. The front in-ceiling speakers are approx. 15' apart so they are 4-4.5' wider than the towers on each side and almost in line with the towers in terms of front to back distance from the wall the TV is on. So my question is are they considered front height or wides? I think this will play an import part in the Audyssey calibration. The Audyssey FAQ says go with wides when possible but with the speakers being in-ceiling my initial thought was call them height speakers. Being that I'm not sure I figured I'd ask the experts here to try to avoid a trail and error process with calibration. Thanks in advance for any help, forgive me if that isn't really the correct thread for this post but this is my first post after all. Hopefully I have explained my setup well enough for yall to provide a good answer.
The speakers are high.... They are heights don't overthink it.

Sidestep but are you committed to that subwoofer? If you have time to return it I would step up to something more powerful in a room that size. If not then I would plan on adding a second sub ASAP.
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The speakers are high.... They are heights don't overthink it.

Sidestep but are you committed to that subwoofer? If you have time to return it I would step up to something more powerful in a room that size. If not then I would plan on adding a second sub ASAP.
Thanks batpig. That's was my initial thought, when in doubt invoke the KISS method, Keep It Simple Stupid. I am stuck with that sub it was an open box I got for $150 off amazon over a month ago. So I'd probably have to get a second sub if I'm not happy with it how it's sounding. I wanted the 75T towers to help with bass but the wife says the 65T are too big. Maybe another smaller sub would be permissible though say an 8" or even a 10" but not another 12" I still have to keep the boss happy.
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post #8287 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 08:05 PM
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I have question about Denon X4000 is rated 125w per channel with 8Ohm speakers. Where I can find real watts per channel I know it is lower then what is on paper. I just want to know how much watts per channel can do Denon X4000 with only 2 channels, 5 channels and 7 channels. Thanks

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post #8288 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 08:20 PM
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^^
Based on past model experience likely: 125W @ 2CH; 90W @ 5CH, 80W @ 7CH ............so bottom line, more than enough power for a 7CH 6-8 ohm setup.

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post #8289 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 08:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Based on past model experience likely: 125W @ 2CH; 90W @ 5CH, 80W @ 7CH ............so bottom line, more than enough power for a 7CH 6-8 ohm setup.
Thank you jdsmoothie, you are always very helpful !!!
how about subs? how much 1 or 2 subs can lower it?

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post #8290 of 8306 Unread 07-23-2014, 10:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by retro124 View Post
Thank you jdsmoothie, you are always very helpful !!!
how about subs? how much 1 or 2 subs can lower it?
Subs will be self powered.
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post #8291 of 8306 Unread Yesterday, 03:38 AM
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Thank you jdsmoothie, you are always very helpful !!!
how about subs? how much 1 or 2 subs can lower it?
The subs should be powered with their own amps and therefore will not draw any power from AVR.

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Hey guys,

I'm looking to build my first HT setup. I picked out the Denon x1000 amp but am confused about speakers and impedance. I was planning on getting the Micca MB42X pair for front and MB42X-C for center, all of which are 4 ohm. Does this mean that they won't work or the performance will be subpar? Also, I want the Fluance AVBP2 for rear which are 8 ohm. Is mixing impedance a bad idea?

Thanks!
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post #8293 of 8306 Unread Yesterday, 10:10 PM
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Do the new Denons X2100W (mine) still have the fancy Blue light that come on when Bitstreaming?
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post #8294 of 8306 Unread Today, 03:36 AM
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Hey guys,

I'm looking to build my first HT setup. I picked out the Denon x1000 amp but am confused about speakers and impedance. I was planning on getting the Micca MB42X pair for front and MB42X-C for center, all of which are 4 ohm. Does this mean that they won't work or the performance will be subpar? Also, I want the Fluance AVBP2 for rear which are 8 ohm. Is mixing impedance a bad idea?

Thanks!

The X1000 should be able to power the speakers at average TV listening levels, however, if you raise the volume much louder (eg. for movies), the AVR may shut down in protection mode so simply don't raise it above that volume level again. Nothing wrong with mixing speakers with different impedance as they will be calibrated for the proper volume level after running Audyssey.
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Do the new Denons X2100W (mine) still have the fancy Blue light that come on when Bitstreaming?
No. That was dropped a few years back.

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hi peoples just wondering can I plug my Computer into the HDMI port of the TV so I get 4K resolution and still get the 7.1 sound signal to the AVR via the ARC HDMI from the TV? I have a Denon X4000 but I think 4K isnt working well through it. Any help would be great. Cheers

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post #8297 of 8306 Unread Today, 06:45 AM
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AVR-3311 receiver, Zone 1, SAT/CBL HDMI input.

The left/center/right power amps are connected to a speaker sound bar and all three play.

An external amp connected to the "Center" preamp output of the 3311 gets no audio. It does play if connected to the Left or Right preamp outputs.

What settings or conditions might cause the center preamp output to go dead?

Thank you!

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post #8298 of 8306 Unread Today, 07:08 AM - Thread Starter
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hi peoples just wondering can I plug my Computer into the HDMI port of the TV so I get 4K resolution and still get the 7.1 sound signal to the AVR via the ARC HDMI from the TV? I have a Denon X4000 but I think 4K isnt working well through it. Any help would be great. Cheers
No, unfortunately ARC is not effective as a "passthrough" audio switch as nearly every tv (being a stereo device) will only output a downmixed PCM stereo signal from external sources. Typically the only time you get multich output over ARC is from sources internally tuned in the tv, like cable or internet steaming services.
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I'm sorry for asking so many questions about my new AVR-X4000 but I really, really appreciate the help of jdsmoothie, batpig, and everybody else!

I do have one more question though...

What is the surround mode "STANDARD" ? (this is available using the Denon Remote applications or the RS232/IP protocol, etc)

After doing research, I know that there are three surround mode "quick selects" called Movie, Music, and Game. Each of these can be programmed to select your favorite surround mode. (for example, the "Movie" button can automatically select the DTS NEO:X Cinema mode, etc)

However, I'm confused what this "STANDARD" surround mode is and the purpose of it...
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
The X1000 should be able to power the speakers at average TV listening levels, however, if you raise the volume much louder (eg. for movies), the AVR may shut down in protection mode so simply don't raise it above that volume level again. Nothing wrong with mixing speakers with different impedance as they will be calibrated for the proper volume level after running Audyssey.
Thanks for your response. It's a bit confusing because on Amazon the Miccas are listed as 4ohm, but on the Micca website it says "Impedance: 4-8 Ohms" -- so I guess the speakers can be powered by both? But they don't specify at which impedance the 75 watts is.

I think I may go with the Fluance for all 5 of my speakers since they're all 8 ohm. That way no issues
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sofakng View Post
I'm sorry for asking so many questions about my new AVR-X4000 but I really, really appreciate the help of jdsmoothie, batpig, and everybody else!

I do have one more question though...

What is the surround mode "STANDARD" ? (this is available using the Denon Remote applications or the RS232/IP protocol, etc)

After doing research, I know that there are three surround mode "quick selects" called Movie, Music, and Game. Each of these can be programmed to select your favorite surround mode. (for example, the "Movie" button can automatically select the DTS NEO:X Cinema mode, etc)

However, I'm confused what this "STANDARD" surround mode is and the purpose of it...
The "STANDARD" button used to be, um, standard on Denon remotes for surround control. Up until a few years ago when they dropped that on the xx12 models and switched to the newer "quick select" method of having memorizable Movie/Music/Game buttons. But the "Standard" command still persists in the world of universal remotes and custom installs.

Basically, the way you can think about Denon surrounds is that there are three basic categories:

1. STANDARD modes which are the core surround sound processing modes without any "enhancement"
2. 2CH LISTENING modes which include Stereo and Direct surround modes
3. DENON DSP modes like MultiCH Stereo, Jazz Club, etc. which add some proprietary "enhancement" processing

Traditionally, hitting the "STANDARD" button would cycle through the various "standard" surround processing options. Typically the first option would be "straight" decoding (e.g. if DOLBY DIGITAL 5.1 is the input, and you have a 7.1 setup, it would decode the straight 5.1 signal) and then it would cycle through the various "standard" upmixing (Dolby Pro-Logic and DTS equivalent). So if you take that 5.1 signal and keep pressing standard it will cycle from "straight" Dolby Digital through DD+PLIIx Cinema, DD+PLIIx Music, DD+DTS Neo:X, etc.

With a stereo input signal the "STANDARD" button will cycle through various upmix flavors (again the correlation with "standard" and surround sound), so it might go PLIIx Cinema > PLIIx Music > DTS Neo:X Cinema > DTS Neo:X Music etc.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzaur View Post
Thanks for your response. It's a bit confusing because on Amazon the Miccas are listed as 4ohm, but on the Micca website it says "Impedance: 4-8 Ohms" -- so I guess the speakers can be powered by both? But they don't specify at which impedance the 75 watts is.

I think I may go with the Fluance for all 5 of my speakers since they're all 8 ohm. That way no issues
Here's the thing -- impedance is not a "fixed" number. It's a contineously variable property of electrical resistance that is going to vary by frequency. For example, here is an impedance graph by frequency of my front speakers (Energy RC-10) from this site:



Notice that it has peaks and valleys, with the peaks at almost 20 ohms in some spots, and dipping below 5ohms at others. The manufacturer can choose to spec the "nominal" impedance which is sort of an average number, or the "minimum" impedance. Or perhaps both (e.g. saying "this speaker is compatible with 4-8ohm receivers").

The important thing to understand is that impedance rating is just one number, that is limited in its meaningfulness, and there are a lot of other variables that determine whether speakers can be driven by your amps. There are some 8-ohm rated speakers that are much tougher loads than other speakers that may be rated at 4-ohms.
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post #8303 of 8306 Unread Today, 11:31 AM
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Here's the thing -- impedance is not a "fixed" number. It's a contineously variable property of electrical resistance that is going to vary by frequency. For example, here is an impedance graph by frequency of my front speakers (Energy RC-10) from this site:



Notice that it has peaks and valleys, with the peaks at almost 20 ohms in some spots, and dipping below 5ohms at others. The manufacturer can choose to spec the "nominal" impedance which is sort of an average number, or the "minimum" impedance. Or perhaps both (e.g. saying "this speaker is compatible with 4-8ohm receivers").

The important thing to understand is that impedance rating is just one number, that is limited in its meaningfulness, and there are a lot of other variables that determine whether speakers can be driven by your amps. There are some 8-ohm rated speakers that are much tougher loads than other speakers that may be rated at 4-ohms.
Wow thanks for the explanation.. Very interesting. You can tell I'm new to all of this. I wish Fluance published that kind of info on their site so I can see how tough of a load their speakers will be. Oh well guess I'll have to wait and find out.

Hmm just read great reviews about the Pioneer SP-BS22 and found someone's impedance measurements here which show that they are pretty easy speakers to drive. Maybe I'll get those then Tough choices!

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Hello. Quick question about using Audissey on my Denon X-2000. I have been using my X-2000 for over a month a now without using the Audissey feature, I mean, I have been using the X-2000 with it's factory presets. So far I have liked it very much but I bought with the Audissey function in mind. The QUESTION is: If I were to install the Audissey equalization and then I didn't like it can I undo the process and have it back like I have it today, that is, without Audissey? Please excuse the ignorance of my question. Thank you.
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Hello. Quick question about using Audissey on my Denon X-2000. I have been using my X-2000 for over a month a now without using the Audissey feature, I mean, I have been using the X-2000 with it's factory presets. So far I have liked it very much but I bought with the Audissey function in mind. The QUESTION is: If I were to install the Audissey equalization and then I didn't like it can I undo the process and have it back like I have it today, that is, without Audissey? Please excuse the ignorance of my question. Thank you.
The X-2000 has four modes (see buttons at bottom of remote), and the "PURE" one completely shuts down all processing, so even once you set up Audyssey, you can toggle out of it with a push of a button.

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Well PURE mode also disables other stuff that he might want like bass management and tone controls. It's easier just to turn off Audyssey in the AUDIO menu under AUDYSSEY settings.
@obonillaf -- One thing to keep in mind is that "Audyssey" is not just ONE thing, there are multiple things that get turned on. Think of it in layers:

Layer 1 -- Audyssey MultEQ XT calibrates and equalizes the speakers (this is the baseline EQ)
Layer 2 -- Dynamic EQ adjusts tonal balance as you drop the volume to keep things rich and immersive, boosting the bass and surrounds
Layer 3 -- Dynamic Volume controls dynamic range swings from loud to soft to keep the volume more consistent (only use if you want to clamp down on dynamic range)

So you might run Audyssey and then decide it doesn't sound good and turn the whole thing off, when really it might just be Dynamic Volume that's the problem and you can keep the rest of it on.

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