The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 3 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #61 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 06:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

This thing is going to be a monster. So much "trickle down" -- the inclusion of XT32 and 9 channels at once with an external amp is groundbreaking at the price point.

Don't see it anywhere in the specs... Can the Pro kit be used with X4000?
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post #62 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 07:30 AM
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Both the X3000 and X4000 should be Pro kit capable models as are their predecessors.
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--------
2015 Denon AVR thread ----> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...dcp-2-2-a.html

Think your AVR is defective? Check the Owner's manual and do a factory reset 4-5 times if necessary.
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post #63 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 12:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smooth tha boss View Post

not sure the reason why but the 1513 is listed on the comparison chart on the side of the e series boxes, and it's still listed at 249. I think they're keeping it around for this year

As is the predecessor of the 1513, the 1312. The 1513 has been replaced by the E200; however, Denon likely still has stock available on both the 1312 and the 1513 and will delist them as soon as they are out of inventory.

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post #64 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 09:18 PM
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So the equal to the 2313ci is the x3000 model? Any big difference here?
I only have 3 channel, 2 front polk tower r 40 and polk center channel, with 52 inch Toshiba
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post #65 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 09:23 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

A lot of people will have to make that decision. Fortunately some authorized online dealers immediately discount new AVR's somewhat as they are just getting them. I would think the MultEQ® XT32 and Sub EQ HT would be the main attraction with the new AVR-X4000 over the AVR-3313CI, that and the option to use the AVR as a full pre-pro with a separate amp. Some because of a real good bargain will latch onto the AVR-3313CI's being closed out.

Any idea which authorized dealers do that? Which ones should I keep my eye on?
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post #66 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 10:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpep13 View Post

So the equal to the 2313ci is the x3000 model? Any big difference here?
I only have 3 channel, 2 front polk tower r 40 and polk center channel, with 52 inch Toshiba
I posted the new features concerning the AVR-X3000 vs AVR-2313 on post # 44. The Denon.eu data sheet in PDF is linked on the same post.

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post #67 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 10:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpep13 View Post

So the equal to the 2313ci is the x3000 model? Any big difference here?
I only have 3 channel, 2 front polk tower r 40 and polk center channel, with 52 inch Toshiba

Suggest you buy speakers 1st.

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post #68 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thephatp View Post

Any idea which authorized dealers do that? Which ones should I keep my eye on?
See some of the online dealers represented here. Amazon is not one of them that deals. Contacting AVS Science reps might be beneficial. You'll need to call around and get some price quotes when the new models are available. wink.gif

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post #69 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 10:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Both the X3000 and X4000 should be Pro kit capable models as are their predecessors.

Wait, my 3313 is pro kit capable?

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post #70 of 11554 Old 04-27-2013, 11:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Wait, my 3313 is pro kit capable?
Yes both the AVR-2313CI and AVR-3313CI are spec'ed Audyssey Pro ready.

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post #71 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 02:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post

Wait, my 3313 is pro kit capable?

Correct. Also the case with the 2312CI and 3312CI, although you're much better served upgrading to an XT32 model (eg. 4311CI or new X4000) than using the Pro Kit on an XT model.

--------
2015 Denon AVR thread ----> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...dcp-2-2-a.html

Think your AVR is defective? Check the Owner's manual and do a factory reset 4-5 times if necessary.
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post #72 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 06:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

See some of the online dealers represented here. Amazon is not one of them that deals. Contacting AVS Science reps might be beneficial. You'll need to call around and get some price quotes when the new models are available. wink.gif

Thanks JohnAV!
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post #73 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Correct. Also the case with the 2312CI and 3312CI, although you're much better served upgrading to an XT32 model (eg. 4311CI or new X4000) than using the Pro Kit on an XT model.

True. XT does make my 7 channels and HSU sub sound well. It surely dialed in the sub since I was coming from an Onkyo tx-nr609 with 2eq. I'm in the "damn I bought my 3313 in January boat." But I really like it and it performs well. An X4000 would mean money on an amp, two more speakers. Say an emotiva xpa 5 and a couple studio monitors (definitive technology to match my other speakers) would be another 1000 or more. Although I could use like a cheaper crown amp. Either way more money and I'm not sure I want to do that at this point since I have built my current setup since last fall. But in the future I would like to run dual subs, XT 32, and true 11 channel DSX.

Why didn't they allow the x4000 to use 11 channels with amps? It can't be that much more costly right? Or is it rather they have to draw the line somewhere for the price tag of 1299 and save some luster for future or possibly an x5000? I did read batpig talking about build quality being lesser since its built in china rather than Japan. That's something I will watch considering I'm kinda a quality nerd, I dislike cheap products and usually go for mid/upper models for these reasons. Or obviously other brands. By this I don't mean they are pieces of crap, just that I would monitor the reports on the forums. biggrin.gif

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post #74 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 08:19 AM
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The discontinued 4311CI and new 4520CI are both capable of 11CH support. smile.gif

--------
2015 Denon AVR thread ----> http://www.avsforum.com/forum/90-rec...dcp-2-2-a.html

Think your AVR is defective? Check the Owner's manual and do a factory reset 4-5 times if necessary.
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post #75 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 08:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The discontinued 4311CI and new 4520CI are both capable of 11CH support. smile.gif

Yes I am aware of that. I was just thinking out loud. biggrin.gif. I'm sure there is some internal hardware that is more expensive to make the X4000 11channel capable. From my uneducated perspective it seems like it wouldn't take much though.

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post #76 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by jlpowell84 View Post


Yes I am aware of that. I was just thinking out loud. biggrin.gif. I'm sure there is some internal hardware that is more expensive to make the X4000 11channel capable. From my uneducated perspective it seems like it wouldn't take much though.

I think Denon had to make some decisions based upon cost, marketing, etc. There will always be features that someone wishes were present, but aren't. No sense wondering about them. They aren't there.

 

I can't wait for my X4000 to arrive. Will replace my 4308.

 

Regarding building products in China. Well, just because it's China, doesn't mean bad quality. I'm very happy with my MacBook Pro Retina, MacBook Air, and the various iMacs I've had. I can't imagine them being any better if they were built in another country. I think bad build quality can come out of any country. Look at some of the problems the high end Nikons have had regarding build quality that were put together is Japan. 

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post #77 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by Mr. Snigggles View Post

I think Denon had to make some decisions based upon cost, marketing, etc. There will always be features that someone wishes were present, but aren't. No sense wondering about them. They aren't there.

I can't wait for my X4000 to arrive. Will replace my 4308.

Regarding building products in China. Well, just because it's China, doesn't mean bad quality. I'm very happy with my MacBook Pro Retina, MacBook Air, and the various iMacs I've had. I can't imagine them being any better if they were built in another country. I think bad build quality can come out of any country. Look at some of the problems the high end Nikons have had regarding build quality that were put together is Japan. 

Good points

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post #78 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 11:01 AM
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Here is the Denon Electronics (USA), LLC. data sheet pdf for the AVR-X4000

It has quite a bit more information. For comparison purposes to the previous model here's the data sheet against the AVR-3313CI.

Other Denon Electronics (USA), LLC. data sheets available to look at the new line up.

data sheet AVR-X1000
data sheet AVR-X2000
data sheet AVR-X3000

Previous released
data sheet AVR-X4520

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post #79 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Suggest you buy speakers 1st.
I plan on keeping my Polk R40's
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post #80 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpep13 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by SanchoPanza View Post

Suggest you buy speakers 1st.
I plan on keeping my Polk R40's

I meant to take you to 5.1, then 7.1...newegg has some good special on Polks biggrin.gif

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post #81 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 04:03 PM
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post #82 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 04:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post

Fellas how does this new Sony stack up to the X2000. I was really jazzed about that Denon
but this was just announced
Sony STR-DN1040 is not that great if going by images and specifications. They advertise it is capable of 165W x 7 @ 8 ohms 1kHz 0.9% THD 1ch. driven, but it only consumes 240 watts AC max. Also note the power cord is non-replaceable it goes into the chassis.

The Denon AVR-X2000 consumes 500 watts AC max and offers Audyssey MultEQ XT and Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

IMHO Sony STR-DN1040 not even worth considering for $599.

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post #83 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 05:32 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Sony STR-DN1040 is not that great if going by images and specifications. They advertise it is capable of 165W x 7 @ 8 ohms 1kHz 0.9% THD 1ch. driven, but it only consumes 240 watts AC max. Also note the power cord is non-replaceable it goes into the chassis.
I'd wait for the bench tests...as we all know most any mainstream receiver won't output its rated power but the DN1030 still output 94W x 5 and 80W x 4 (albeit at 1kHz) and it weighs in at less than 20lbs. The DN1040 weighs about the same and its "165W" rating is, in true hilarious fashion, with ONE channel driven...at 6 Ohms (and Sony is not the only one doing this 6 Ohm business these days either). So yeah it's definitely not going to do 165Wx7, but neither are many other receivers in the same class, rated for 1xxWx7. If the DN1030 is any indication of the 1040's performance then it will still have solid power in this class. The Denon 2313 tested with similar results for power.
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

The Denon AVR-X2000 consumes 500 watts AC max and offers Audyssey MultEQ XT and Audyssey Dynamic EQ.

IMHO Sony STR-DN1040 not even worth considering for $599.
And Sony has always offered it's own proprietary alternative to Audyssey, just because it's not branded/royaltied doesn't mean it's terrible. Given the DN1030 sold as low as $400, I'm betting the MSRP of the DN1040 is going to be $100-200 less, street price. But the Denon does have some different features like serial control, for example. I wouldn't say right away the DN1040 is not competent, and its price point is probably going to be a bit less than MSRP, a few months after release.
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post #84 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 05:47 PM
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Thanks fellas! CNET seems pretty impressed with Sonys offerings.
The GUI looks decent on the 1040.
http://reviews.cnet.com/av-receivers/sony-str-dn840/4505-6466_7-35734384.html

I've waited years to upgrade so I'm just doing my home work before I pull the trigger.
Im upgrading pretty much everything this year for the PS4 and new Xbox.
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post #85 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 05:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ES_Revenge View Post

And Sony has always offered it's own proprietary alternative to Audyssey, just because it's not branded/royaltied doesn't mean it's terrible. Given the DN1030 sold as low as $400, I'm betting the MSRP of the DN1040 is going to be $100-200 less, street price. But the Denon does have some different features like serial control, for example. I wouldn't say right away the DN1040 is not competent, and its price point is probably going to be a bit less than MSRP, a few months after release.
I'm not sold on non ES Sony AVR's compared to Denon's or other well known brands, especially against build quality. Yes I meant that for $599 its not a good deal, as they are typically discounted to a lower price point.

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post #86 of 11554 Old 04-28-2013, 11:28 PM
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Will 3313 be good upgrade for 3808ci?
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post #87 of 11554 Old 04-29-2013, 03:21 AM
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^^
The new X4000 that replaces the 3313CI would be a better upgrade.

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Think your AVR is defective? Check the Owner's manual and do a factory reset 4-5 times if necessary.
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post #88 of 11554 Old 04-29-2013, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

^^
The new X4000 that replaces the 3313CI would be a better upgrade.

Yes, the x4000 is intriguing. but you can pick up a 3313 for 799 from Crutchfield right now.

I have the 3311 adn the X4000 would be nice, but I'm not sure it's warranted for me. I do use audyssey XT and the audyssey upgrade would be nice. I wonder if the audyssey upgrade is worth it given I run a two channel system with supercharged songtowers w/o a sub?
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post #89 of 11554 Old 04-29-2013, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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If you don't have a sub then the Audyssey upgrade is even more valuable, since the greatest area of improvement from XT to XT32 is the filter resolution on the satellite channels -- it jumps from 16x to 512x, which is where the "32" name comes from as the filters have 32x the resolution. The extra resolution (plus an apparent shift in philosophy) means that XT32 is able to focus much more effectively on the bass frequencies on the non-sub speakers, so there's a good chance you would hear a distinct audible improvement in the bass smoothness and overall clarity.

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post #90 of 11554 Old 04-29-2013, 12:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by helvetica bold View Post

Thanks!! Is there a huge difference between the X2000 and the 2113? Currently Crutchfield has both
for listed 650.
Whats changed per the AVR-X2000 pdf from Denon.eu:

NEW FEATURES
  • Horizontal color-coded layout of speaker terminals
  • Improved Setup Assistant, providing easy-to-follow setup instructions and pictures with Graphical User Interface (Advanced GUI, 9-languages)
  • Optimised Bass redirection, for powerful bass performance in configurations without subwoofer
  • 6+1 (front) HDMI inputs with 3D, CEC and ARC support
  • Pre-out for zone2

It's worth pointing out that at least two of those "changes" aren't really. The 2113 already has the fourth bullet (save one extra HDMI input) and the fifth (Zone 2 pre-outs). I don't know what the third bullet means.

As usual it's worth not trusting the marketing specs and instead waiting for the manuals to be released so JD, myself and others can study them for real differences.

It's also a good idea to compare the photos of the back panels. In that sense, there appears to be only minimal difference... just the new horizontal, color-coded speaker terminals, that extra HDMI input, the rebirth of the AM antenna, but the disappearance of the basic composite (yellow) monitor output.

The other changes can be assumed to be the same as the general modifications that apply to all models -- e.g., the assignability of analog (composite) inputs, the disconnect of HDMI Standby Passthrough functionality from HDM-CEC, and the ability to "mix" an HDMI video source with a Network audio stream (e.g. so you can stream Pandora or Airplay audio while watching the video from your cable box). Plus there appears to be improvements to the multizone functionality, as JD has noted that the "All Zone Stereo" feature of the 4520 has trickled down to the X-Series.

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