The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 306 - AVS Forum
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post #9151 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
The Audyssey Setup numbers will always reflect the original settings after running Audyssey so you can easily return to them should you desire, whereas the Manual Setup numbers reflect the changes you have made and are the current "active" settings used by the AVR.
Sorry if this is a newbie question but can you have two separate setups on the X4000. One with Audyssey and one without (all manual) and switch back and forth from one to the other in any way?
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post #9152 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Correct, however, if your FL/FR speakers are indeed set to SMALL (as is recommended), there is no need for you to change the factory LFE default from "LFE" to "LFE+MAIN". There is only one LPF for the sub, the LPF for LFE.
Good point! haha

Ok, so next question then. If I set the LPF for LFE to 80hz, if there is content in the LFE track of say a Blu-Ray above 80hz will it be filtered out? or played by my mains?

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post #9153 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 04:38 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Ok, maybe this is a dumb question, I have the X2000 and when you set the crossover setting in the Manual setup "Speakers" menu is this only the HPF for the speakers or is this also setting the LPF for the sub? I'm confused because no where in the "Bass" menu does it state that you are selecting the LPF for the sub, only for the LFE content.. Is this the same thing? I feel like if I set the "Bass" crossover setting lower than 120hz I'll be removing LFE content. Right now Audyssey set my L & R to 60hz, center at 80hz and surrounds at 100hz. LFE crossover is set to 120hz (LFE + main). Thanks in advance.
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
HPF for the speakers only. The LPF for LFE only applies to the LFE (0.1) signal. Reset the sub to (LFE) and not (LFE+MAIN) otherwise you're getting "double bass" from both the LFE and FL/FR speakers which can result in "bloated" bass.
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Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Good point! haha

Ok, so next question then. If I set the LPF for LFE to 80hz, if there is content in the LFE track of say a Blu-Ray above 80hz will it be filtered out? or played by my mains?
Let's clear something up here. A crossover is, by definition, TWO sides. An HPF and and LPF. When you set a specific speaker to an 80Hz crossover, it is setting BOTH an 80Hz HPF on the speaker side, and an 80Hz LPF for the filtered signal that is combined into the SW output.

The LPF for LFE, as JD noted, has nothing to do with crossovers and it only affects the LFE channel (.1). It is not a crossover as there is no HPF on the other side redirecting the signal above the LPF freq back to the speakers. It is simply increasing the steepness of the roll-off of the upper end of the LFE channel.

So in your situation, the subwoofer will play the following signals, summed together:

- Redirected bass content in the L/R channels filtered at 60Hz
- Redirected bass content in the CC channel filtered at 80Hz
- Redirected bass content in the SL/SR channels filtered at 100Hz
- LFE content filtered at 120Hz

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post #9154 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 04:40 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by William K View Post
Sorry if this is a newbie question but can you have two separate setups on the X4000. One with Audyssey and one without (all manual) and switch back and forth from one to the other in any way?
Not sure what you mean by "separate setup" but you can simply disable Audyssey which will turn off MultEQ filters and all other Audyssey stuff (Dynamic EQ, Volume etc). Distances, levels speaker trims and crossovers will be preserved as these aren't really "Audyssey settings", but rather global configuration parameters that are independent of EQ.

You can then switch to Graphic EQ and customize your own EQ sliders, or just leave EQ off completely and use the tone controls for bass/treble adjustment.

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post #9155 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
Let's clear something up here. A crossover is, by definition, TWO sides. An HPF and and LPF. When you set a specific speaker to an 80Hz crossover, it is setting BOTH an 80Hz HPF on the speaker side, and an 80Hz LPF for the filtered signal that is combined into the SW output.

The LPF for LFE, as JD noted, has nothing to do with crossovers and it only affects the LFE channel (.1). It is not a crossover as there is no HPF on the other side redirecting the signal above the LPF freq back to the speakers. It is simply increasing the steepness of the roll-off of the upper end of the LFE channel.

So in your situation, the subwoofer will play the following signals, summed together:

- Redirected bass content in the L/R channels filtered at 60Hz
- Redirected bass content in the CC channel filtered at 80Hz
- Redirected bass content in the SL/SR channels filtered at 100Hz
- LFE content filtered at 120Hz
I have to disagree with your assertion that a crossover by definition is 2 sided. You can easily set up speakers be it active or passive with separate lpf and hpf filters, they do not have to occur at the same frequency. In addition there is no lpf for a tweeter, nor does there have to be a hpf for a woofer, simply a rolloff at the other end.

Unless I understand how the crossovers in the denon work, no content gets actively transfered to another channel (except LFE content), but rather content above or below the crossover is simply filtered out. .. please correct me if this is wrong as I don't have much knowledge when it comes to avr's but have a lot more when it comes to active car audio setups.

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post #9156 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 04:53 PM
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Originally Posted by William K View Post
Sorry if this is a newbie question but can you have two separate setups on the X4000. One with Audyssey and one without (all manual) and switch back and forth from one to the other in any way?
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.

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Last edited by jdsmoothie; Yesterday at 05:06 PM.
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post #9157 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 04:54 PM
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I'm having some major issues with my X4000's secondary HDMI monitor. I finished my basement, and have 3 total TVs. The two "extra" TVs are connected via HDMI over dual cat6 ethernet HDMI extenders. The "zone 2" screen works pretty much all the time, the occasional HDMI handshake issue notwithstanding. I can have it running the same or different input from the primary TV, no issues.

The problem is with the third screen, a TV in the bar that I just want to mirror what's on the main TV (which was a factor my selection of the X4000, with it's secondary HDMI monitor for the primary zone). The short version is that it appears the secondary HDMI output of my X4000 just won't work. I can hook either TV up to the separate zone 2, and it works fine. If I hook either of them up to the "mirror" zone 1 HDMI output, I see one of the following behaviors:

1. Both TVs search for signal (primary TV and mirror/TV2). Sometimes main zone plays the input's audio, although both TVs are blank.
2. TV2 gets a signal occasionally, but mostly is searching for signal. Main TV frequently sync-cycles, losing signal for a few seconds and then reconnecting.

I have tried adding a powered HDMI amplifier, both at the end near the receiver and near TV2. No meaningful change (maybe I get signal a little more often on TV2, but it's all so erratic it's hard to tell). Again, if I switch things around and hook up one of the secondary TVs to the independent "Zone 2" HDMI, they both work fine. So the signal of those HDMI over ethernet runs -- which really aren't incredibly long (well within the tolerances of the extenders), and which I've tested using network equipment -- shouldn't be the issue. Unless there's something so drastically different about the way the X4000 handles a TV attached to Zone 2 vs one attached to Monitor 2.

Any ideas? Thanks!
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post #9158 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 05:03 PM
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^^
Try swapping the HDMI/Cat 6 cables to each extra TV and see if that changes anything. Try doing a soft reset by unplugging the power cable to the X4000. Try doing an HDMI HDCP reset as noted in my post below. If the bar TV is mobile, connect it with a shorter (eg. 6') cable to the HDMI Monitor 2 output to see if the issue still presents.

The 'Official' 2014 Denon "S Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.
I don't follow. ..

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post #9160 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 05:08 PM
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^^
That reply was meant for another poster.

In your case however, try not to get caught up in semantics. Batpig has listed at the bottom of his response exactly what is occurring in your setup based on the various speaker crossover and sub LPF setting.

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Last edited by jdsmoothie; Yesterday at 05:12 PM.
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post #9161 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 05:18 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by squiers007 View Post
Unless I understand how the crossovers in the denon work, no content gets actively transfered to another channel (except LFE content), but rather content above or below the crossover is simply filtered out. .. please correct me if this is wrong as I don't have much knowledge when it comes to avr's but have a lot more when it comes to active car audio setups.
The crossover in receivers is always two sides, HPF on the speaker side and LPF on the subwoofer side. Each channel (excepting LFE) receives a full bandwidth signal. The crossover frequency determines where the digital HPF is applied to that speaker channel. Then the signal is copied to the subwoofer channel and the LPF at the same frequency is applied so the subwoofer only plays the redirected bass below the crossover freq (yes there are slopes and stuff too, just being simple). So basically the bass management is an active crossover that divides the signal prior to amplification, and sends it to two different places.

I understand the points you are making but they are largely academic. A crossover, by definition, is splitting an audio signal into two separate frequency bands. Sure, they don't have to match frequencies of the LPF and HPF in other applications. And I believe you that there are scenarios where you can use the active roll-off of the driver as an implicit filter on one side of the crossover. But any way you slice it, a crossover by nature is two sided. The LPF for LFE in the receivers is not a crossover as it's only one-sided, there is no redirection.

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post #9162 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 05:37 PM
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Originally Posted by batpig View Post
The crossover in receivers is always two sides, HPF on the speaker side and LPF on the subwoofer side. Each channel (excepting LFE) receives a full bandwidth signal. The crossover frequency determines where the digital HPF is applied to that speaker channel. Then the signal is copied to the subwoofer channel and the LPF at the same frequency is applied so the subwoofer only plays the redirected bass below the crossover freq (yes there are slopes and stuff too, just being simple). So basically the bass management is an active crossover that divides the signal prior to amplification, and sends it to two different places.

I understand the points you are making but they are largely academic. A crossover, by definition, is splitting an audio signal into two separate frequency bands. Sure, they don't have to match frequencies of the LPF and HPF in other applications. And I believe you that there are scenarios where you can use the active roll-off of the driver as an implicit filter on one side of the crossover. But any way you slice it, a crossover by nature is two sided. The LPF for LFE in the receivers is not a crossover as it's only one-sided, there is no redirection.
Thank you for the clarification. That helps.

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post #9163 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 06:04 PM
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I see the link in post #3 now that batpig pointed it out. It does say if you have trouble with IE go to post #4 . Tbh, that section was a bit confusing.

Thanks batpig, that worked! I see both the Save and Load using that URL.
As to the SAVE/LOAD function, just wanted to report that I came across a post that said to use IE in compatibility mode if you don't get the SAVE/LOAD showing up in it and that worked for me - good save without all zeroes. I didn't find that post before in my search. jdsmoothie... perhaps this would be good info to add to your outstanding guide on page 1.

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post #9164 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 06:22 PM
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^^
It's been in post #4 on page 1 for over a year now.

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post #9165 of 9166 Old Yesterday, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
It's been in post #4 on page 1 for over a year now.
I guess I didn't see it there because by that point I was using the modified link for Firefox, but I don't like using the Firefox link because it doesn't feel right since I can't get to it without using the "secret passage".

I think it would make things easier if it were in Post #3 , which is what I was thinking when I posted, since that's the post where the original instructions are, where as #4 is the troubleshooting area. Just a suggestion.

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post #9166 of 9166 Old Today, 03:38 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
No. You would have to disable Audyssey and make your changes. Then change them back and enable Audyssey again.
Why would simply turning Audyssey OFF not enable the "all manual" setup that the OP asked about?

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post #9167 of 9166 Old Today, 03:44 AM
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^^
Audyssey only sets the EQ, not the other parameters (eg. SMALL/LARGE, distance, volume level). So disabling Audyssey still leaves you with the same values for those parameters. If all the OP wants to do is to play with the Graphic EQ, then yes, he simply needs to select Graphic EQ (disabling Audyssey) and when he is done he can return to Audyssey by selecting Audyssey (disabling the Graphic EQ).

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Last edited by jdsmoothie; Today at 03:48 AM.
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