The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 308 - AVS Forum
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post #9211 of 9227 Unread 10-26-2014, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by NoFateDenon View Post
i am verry limited to configure my router settings, we receive a router from our provider
does it help to configure dhcp instead of static?
It may work better, but also note you don't have to necessarily use the router provided by the provider. In fact, if you are paying a monthly rent on it, you can likely just buy a better model and stop having to pay rent.

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post #9212 of 9227 Unread 10-26-2014, 03:05 PM
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Thanks JD. I did a 10 minute unplug followed by the microprocessor reset series. I have had to do that twice. Oh well, back it goes.
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post #9213 of 9227 Unread 10-26-2014, 10:19 PM
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I just bought the last X4000 in Alaska. (at least at the BB stores--I don't know if the smaller independent store has any). I missed the last new in box unit by a few hours, so I ended up with a former display.

After reading most of this thread and the corresponding 2014 model thread I had intended to wait until next fall to maybe pick up an X4100 or X5200 on clearance, but my older Onkyo started cutting out (audio) and then shutting off last week. That's all the excuse I needed to accelerate my plans.

I have to scrounge up a power cord, and they ended up giving me a remote from an X3000, but the receiver itself looks like it's in good condition.

Fingers crossed...
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post #9214 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 04:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rogersmj View Post
Thanks. I'd already tried swapping the ethernet cables around. I went through the HDCP reset but no change. I unmounted the bar TV and carried it over to the receiver, and connected directly to the X4000 there was no issue.

HOWEVER, swapping the other TVs (as you suggested) causes problems -- meaning I can take the TV that's on Zone 2 and works perfectly, simply move the cable from Zone 2 HDMI out to Monitor 2, and it won't work. Same cables, same HDMI extenders, etc. So something is different about the way the X4000 handles the signal between those HDMI outputs.

Placing an HDMI signal booster on the line (near the receiver, oddly, not the TV which is usually recommended) helps somewhat, but even at max boost it doesn't eliminate the TV from losing its picture every few seconds (then immediately coming back). This behavior is consistent no matter which TV I connect Monitor 2 to. The good news is that putting the signal booster in there eliminates the main TV from ever picture/HDMI handshake cycling.

I've ordered a different HDMI booster and am going to see if that helps. Or maybe I just order an HDMI splitter and abandon the X4000's built-in Monitor 2.
For anyone wondering how this turned out, a $23 HDMI splitter did what my $1000 Denon receiver couldn't -- send a reliable signal to a second monitor. That was a lot of hours of troubleshooting and grief. Oh well.
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post #9215 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 05:18 PM
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Someone just referred to setting the audio delay (lip sync) on multiple inputs: TiVo, DVD, Roku, etc. How do you do that accurately?

Setting it on my DVD/BD is easy - run a test disk. But how do you do it on TiVo or Roku where you can't control the signal? I've tried just watching a program and guessing but I never feel it's just right.

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post #9216 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 09:52 PM
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I have the x4000. My question is, with Room correction etc. Is it important to have same length speaker cables anymore? I'm about to run my new wiring for my remodel and the right side will require much more cable in the front, and much less cable in the rears. My AVR will be located in the back right corner. All speakers except the right rear will be routed up through the ceiling and down a 20ft wall. than the right front will have to cross over another 13ft. Is 13ft difference going to be a problem (same with front heights)? The left rear cable is much shorter than the fronts at 20 ft long and the right rear only needs to be about 4ft. I really don't want to match all my speakers to the extra long front right witch I guess will be about 70ft when finished.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but i wasn't sure if AVR model had an effect on same length cables.

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post #9217 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 10:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy1970 View Post
I have the x4000. My question is, with Room correction etc. Is it important to have same length speaker cables anymore? I'm about to run my new wiring for my remodel and the right side will require much more cable in the front, and much less cable in the rears. My AVR will be located in the back right corner. All speakers except the right rear will be routed up through the ceiling and down a 20ft wall. than the right front will have to cross over another 13ft. Is 13ft difference going to be a problem (same with front heights)? The left rear cable is much shorter than the fronts at 20 ft long and the right rear only needs to be about 4ft. I really don't want to match all my speakers to the extra long front right witch I guess will be about 70ft when finished.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but i wasn't sure if AVR model had an effect on same length cables.

It shouldn't as long as it isn't too small of a gauge. What size are you using?


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post #9218 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 10:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post
It shouldn't as long as it isn't too small of a gauge. What size are you using?


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14 gauge

Denon X4000 - Klipsch KLF-10 Fronts - Klipsch KLF-C7 Center - Klipsch KLF-C7 X 2 Surrounds - Dual HSU VTF-3 MK4 Subs - BenQ W1070 projector - 106" Antra fixed Screen - 3D powered by AMD home built computer
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post #9219 of 9227 Unread Yesterday, 10:16 PM
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You should be fine[emoji106]


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post #9220 of 9227 Unread Today, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy1970 View Post
I have the x4000. My question is, with Room correction etc. Is it important to have same length speaker cables anymore? I'm about to run my new wiring for my remodel and the right side will require much more cable in the front, and much less cable in the rears. My AVR will be located in the back right corner. All speakers except the right rear will be routed up through the ceiling and down a 20ft wall. than the right front will have to cross over another 13ft. Is 13ft difference going to be a problem (same with front heights)? The left rear cable is much shorter than the fronts at 20 ft long and the right rear only needs to be about 4ft. I really don't want to match all my speakers to the extra long front right witch I guess will be about 70ft when finished.

Sorry if this is in the wrong section, but i wasn't sure if AVR model had an effect on same length cables.
Nope. When you run Audyssey, the level/distance of each speaker/sub is calculated in the first mic position. The AVR will then set the appropriate level for each speaker/sub based on those distance measurements. For the best results, use a mic boom stand or tripod to support the Audyssey mic and you should be good to go.

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post #9221 of 9227 Unread Today, 08:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy1970 View Post
Is it important to have same length speaker cables anymore?
It never was very important, unless you had very long cables (too much resistance) or were using solid wire (skin effect, which also adds resistance).

Electricity travels about 1 foot per nanosecond (10^-9 second). Sound travels a bit more than 1 foot per millisecond (10^-3 second). So, one might say that signal delay due to the length of the speaker cables is about 1/1,000,000 as important as that due to the distance from the listening position to the speakers.
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post #9222 of 9227 Unread Today, 08:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Electricity travels about 1 foot per nanosecond (10^-9 second). Sound travels a bit more than 1 foot per millisecond (10^-3 second). So, one might say that signal delay due to the length of the speaker cables is about 1/1,000,000 as important as that due to the distance from the listening position to the speakers.
Exactly. Having the left speaker cable 3 ft (1 meter) shorter than the right speaker cable has about the same effect as having the left speaker about one micron closer to the main listening position than the right speaker.

Trying to sit absolutely still, your head will still move around on distances orders of magnitude greater than the effect of cable length. Total non-issue.

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post #9223 of 9227 Unread Today, 09:52 AM
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I have to say I was impressed and surprised when I re-ran XT32 in my new room last night.

In the old room Audyssey always set my LSA monitors / LCR center / OW surrounds as Large, which is the norm with receivers these days. And of course I'd go in and set them all to Small with an appropriate crossover point. Well, I did an 8-pt run in the new room and it surprisingly set all the speakers to Small with a 60Hz crossover for the mains and surrounds and a 40 Hz crossover for the center.

I was only able to listen to a few short clips but I have to say it sounds really good as-is, without bumping up the crossover points or adding a few dB to the subs as I usually do.

I'm not sure why Audyssey is now flagging the speakers as Small whereas it used to flag them as Large. The mains are just a little bit further away from the wall than they were in the old room so maybe without the reinforcement it was just enough to change the measurement...
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post #9224 of 9227 Unread Today, 10:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Soupy1970 View Post
I have the x4000. My question is, with Room correction etc. Is it important to have same length speaker cables anymore?
It was never important, so it still isn't

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post #9225 of 9227 Unread Today, 10:56 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pg_rider View Post
I have to say I was impressed and surprised when I re-ran XT32 in my new room last night.

In the old room Audyssey always set my LSA monitors / LCR center / OW surrounds as Large, which is the norm with receivers these days. And of course I'd go in and set them all to Small with an appropriate crossover point. Well, I did an 8-pt run in the new room and it surprisingly set all the speakers to Small with a 60Hz crossover for the mains and surrounds and a 40 Hz crossover for the center.

I was only able to listen to a few short clips but I have to say it sounds really good as-is, without bumping up the crossover points or adding a few dB to the subs as I usually do.

I'm not sure why Audyssey is now flagging the speakers as Small whereas it used to flag them as Large. The mains are just a little bit further away from the wall than they were in the old room so maybe without the reinforcement it was just enough to change the measurement...
The crossovers (well, really the -3dB points) are calculated based on ALL the measurements, unlike the distances / levels which are set only at the first mic position. So a combination of slight changes in speaker location and microphone positioning can definitely yield slight changes in detected low freq roll-off.

I'd probably still raise the center to 60Hz to match the fronts and take a bit of the ultra low bass load away and hand it to the sub(s), but if it sounds good at 60Hz then rock away.
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I had the same thought Batpig, but for now I want to try completely trusting XT32! lol

In all seriousness, I've always tweaked my room correction settings using a Radio Shack meter as well as anecdotal evidence (like the 80Hz XO setting). This time, I'm curious to see if the measured / reference settings that Audyssey comes up with will be the most satisfying in the long-term. I'd like to believe that the Audyssey algorithms were designed to work as a whole, and that if you start tweaking one or two of them the whole presentation will break down... We'll see!

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post #9227 of 9227 Unread Today, 11:15 AM - Thread Starter
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The important thing to understand though is that Audyssey doesn't actually set the crossovers. All it does is measure the speakers' response and pass the data to the processor, which then makes the small/large and crossover decisions. Receiver manufacturers have never been willing to hand over control of bass management to Audyssey (and the primary reason is because they don't want to offend people with big tower speakers by calling them "small" - true story!).

So, while it's a somewhat academic point, it's important to understand because it negates the assumption that the crossovers set are somehow "ideal" or "reference" and that you are "trusting XT32" by leaving them as is. Audyssey themselves would tell you to ALWAYS reset speakers to small if you have a subwoofer: http://www.audyssey.com/blog/small-vs-large

Furthermore, Audyssey never measures the interaction of the subwoofer and the speaker(s) at the crossover splice. It's entirely possible that measurements would reveal that raising the crossover would yield a smoother response due to the vagaries of room acoustics, but you'd really need measurement gear to determine this.

So, while I understand the vague emotional appeal of "trusting the calibration", I just want to make sure you are aware that the crossover settings selected after calibration are not necessarily the "best" or "Audyssey endorsed reference" settings. Obviously, if it sounds good, then roll with it, but just wanted to clarify.

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