The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 311 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #9301 of 10840 Old 11-08-2014, 09:31 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
All mfr's have roughly a 3% defect rate which is why it's important to check out the unit when received when possible. If you cannot get the mic to make a solid connection, please call Denon CSR and they may be able to ship another mic to you as it could simply be a defective cable tip.
I checked that the system functioned ie. turned on, and produced audio. I never went through the entire calibration rigmarole, so unfortunately I didn't notice the faulty mic jack.

I tried another mic, Pioneer calibration mic, the issue persists. I'm going to call Denon on Monday, can't wait to play this game. Hopefully I'm covered and this doesn't become a huge hassle, like being out of a receiver for weeks upon weeks, or arguing with customer service to honor the warranty.

Kuro'd
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post #9302 of 10840 Old 11-09-2014, 01:31 AM
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^^
The X2000 has a 3 year warranty so there won't be any warranty issues as long as you have the original invoice (if you need a copy, contact your AVScience sales person). Most find repair turn around to be much quicker when shipped to the factory repair center PanurgyOEM in NJ (1-2 weeks), but also worth checking back log at any local repair facilities in your area as replacing a mic jack should be a fairly easy repair.

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post #9303 of 10840 Old 11-09-2014, 07:39 PM
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Save different speaker levels for different settings in x4000

I like Audyssey speaker settings for watching movies, but I want different speaker levels settings for music. Is that possible in the x4000?
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post #9304 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
The X2000 has a 3 year warranty so there won't be any warranty issues as long as you have the original invoice (if you need a copy, contact your AVScience sales person). Most find repair turn around to be much quicker when shipped to the factory repair center PanurgyOEM in NJ (1-2 weeks), but also worth checking back log at any local repair facilities in your area as replacing a mic jack should be a fairly easy repair.
I've shipped the receiver out to Denon for service, it's been shipped to the NJ repair center.

Upon delivery I checked to make sure the receiver functioned when I got it. It played audio and every speaker jack worked, I just never ran the calibration setup portion. I'm quite disappointed with the poor build quality of the receiver, and as a result this will be the first and last Denon product I ever purchase. It's nice that I have a warranty to cover the repairs but I'm still stuck covering shipping rates, the uncertainty of damage incurred from shipping, as well as not having the receiver here to use for several weeks, this is on a BNIB product. I was warned about Denon, I should have taken that advice and bought a Yamaha.

Lesson learned.

Anyways, enough drama. When I still had the receiver I ran Audyssey and got the results. I ended up tweaking a few things, set speakers to small since I wasn't getting anything out of the sub, and finally I set all the speakers to 80hz. Is that an acceptable crossover? Any other tips or advice with this setup? It did feel a little too bassy / boomy, and Audyssey already set the sub to -12db.

Speaker setup:
Center: Polk CS2
L/R: Polk Monitor 60's
Surrounds: Polk Monitor 35B's
Surround Rears: Sony SS-MSP69R/L
Sub: BIC America F12

Kuro'd

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post #9305 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 01:51 PM
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^^
Although I can certainly understand your frustration, many thousands of X2000 owners are extremely happy with their units, likely experiencing no issues what so ever, not to mention a strong rating from Amazon reviews as well. Additionally, at this level, the Denon audio quality is likely superior to Yamaha's similar level models that can't even EQ the subwoofer. With a sub setting of -12db, you'll need to lower the gain knob on the BIC sub to about 7-9 o'clock and run Audyssey again until the setting is closer to 0db than to -12db.
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post #9306 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 03:26 PM
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I got my X1000 in today. Everything is working well. Ran Audyssey and was surprised at where it set things up, but it sure does sound better to my ears than my previous Yamaha, I'll say that. Here's my setup:

Running 5.1:
Mains - Polk Monitor 70's
Center - Polk CS2
Surrounds - Monitor 30's
Sub - Dayton SUB-120

So it set the L/R to large, center to small, surrounds to small. It set crossovers:

L/R: Full
Center: 40 Hz
Surrounds: 60 Hz

Those crossovers seem low, but when I start bumping things up, I loose the "fullness" that I'm liking (as opposed to my decidedly thin sounding Yamaha entry-level receiver that this one replaced). Any suggestions, comments, or explanations? I'm eager to learn. I see the following in the tutorial at the start of this thread, but I'm wondering if due to my underwhelming subwoofer (I had to set it at 3/4 gain in my large room), I should modify this plan (until I can upgrade my sub):

Quote:
The AVR will generally set any speaker that is capable of playing a < 50hz frequency (regardless of what the mfr's spec is on paper) in your room to LARGE. Note this setting is NOT about the physical size of the speaker, rather simply whether it can play low frequencies (LARGE) or not (SMALL). However, after running Audyssey Setup, if you are using a sub, go into the Denon GUI and change ALL speakers to SMALL and raise any crossovers that were set below 80Hz up to either 60Hz or 80Hz (whichever you prefer). This not only transfers those lower frequencies to the sub (which is generally able to handle them better as it's got it's own amp) but also frees up some extra headroom for the AVR.
Another thing I noticed is that when I switch TV channels (I use OTA and get audio back through ARC over HDMI), it seems to fade the volume back in from a low level vs. a hard switch. The fade is so slow it's annoying...makes you wanna grab the remote and turn it up, then you realize it's back up...just long enough to switch the channel again and repeat the frustration. I've had Pioneers and Yamaha's now, and never a Denon...is this some brilliant signature feature in the name of protecting something, or is there a setting I can change?

I also was surprised at how turning off Dynamic Volume really dropped the overall level (Audyssey set it to Medium). I didn't find that setting until later in my initial listening session and it kind of threw me for a loop when I changed it...made me wonder if I should start over with my tweaking with it off, as I typically don't want to apply and compression but keep that dynamic range. Again, comments are very welcome...I'm looking for setup advice. Again, I've read the tutorial, but why does it sound so "full" to me with the compression applied? I thought it would be the other way around (sounding lifeless and squeezed).

I'll stop there for now!

Thanks,
Chris
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post #9307 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 03:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Gracepreacher
Another thing I noticed is that when I switch TV channels (I use OTA and get audio back through ARC over HDMI), it seems to fade the volume back in from a low level vs. a hard switch. The fade is so slow it's annoying...makes you wanna grab the remote and turn it up, then you realize it's back up...just long enough to switch the channel again and repeat the frustration. I've had Pioneers and Yamaha's now, and never a Denon...is this some brilliant signature feature in the name of protecting something, or is there a setting I can change?
As the rest of your questions are really a matter of preference, I'll address the above. The "fading" is because you are using Dynamic Volume. That's it's purpose, to keep the volume "even" (no jolting commercial breaks). It kicks in on channel changes as it doesn't have a reference for the new channel, then slowly raises it up.

Re: Your sub vs. the Monitor 70s, I would guess that your sub is overwhelmed a bit. A bigger/badder sub (think Hsu, SVS, PSA) will make a pretty dramatic difference. Just how big is your room, and does it open to others? That can be a big factor as LFE is not confined to your listening position (long waves "spill" into surrounding areas). Another thing you may need to do if you haven't already is the "sub crawl". Google it if you're not familiar with the term.
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post #9308 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
I got my X1000 in today. Everything is working well. Ran Audyssey and was surprised at where it set things up, but it sure does sound better to my ears than my previous Yamaha, I'll say that. Here's my setup:

Running 5.1:
Mains - Polk Monitor 70's
Center - Polk CS2
Surrounds - Monitor 30's
Sub - Dayton SUB-120

So it set the L/R to large, center to small, surrounds to small. It set crossovers:

L/R: Full
Center: 40 Hz
Surrounds: 60 Hz

Those crossovers seem low, but when I start bumping things up, I loose the "fullness" that I'm liking (as opposed to my decidedly thin sounding Yamaha entry-level receiver that this one replaced). Any suggestions, comments, or explanations? I'm eager to learn. I see the following in the tutorial at the start of this thread, but I'm wondering if due to my underwhelming subwoofer (I had to set it at 3/4 gain in my large room), I should modify this plan (until I can upgrade my sub):
Set the FL/FR speakers to SMALL/60Hz and raise the center to 60Hz as well and invest in a better quality sub.

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post #9309 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 05:11 PM
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You all have been extremely helpful. I'm honing in. Thanks!

The next thing I am noticing is that the on screen display will show when I adjust the volume on all the inputs but not on my ota via arc. Anyone know if I can get it there? Again, the Yamaha did.
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post #9310 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 05:24 PM
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Re: Your sub vs. the Monitor 70s, I would guess that your sub is overwhelmed a bit. A bigger/badder sub (think Hsu, SVS, PSA) will make a pretty dramatic difference. Just how big is your room, and does it open to others? That can be a big factor as LFE is not confined to your listening position (long waves "spill" into surrounding areas). Another thing you may need to do if you haven't already is the "sub crawl". Google it if you're not familiar with the term.
Yes....I know...I am just on an extremely limited budget. However i have been saving and researching. The room is large...16.5x20x10 with several openings to entry ways. I am finding out that filling this room will cost me. Do you think a BIC PL-200 would be a upgrade? I would love to keep saving for a SVS PB1000 but I am afraid it won't fill my room. This Dayton plays fairly loud but it is loose and boomy. The location of the sub is without other options.
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post #9311 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 05:45 PM
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Any reason I should not update the firmware ?
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post #9312 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 05:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
You all have been extremely helpful. I'm honing in. Thanks!

The next thing I am noticing is that the on screen display will show when I adjust the volume on all the inputs but not on my ota via arc. Anyone know if I can get it there? Again, the Yamaha did.
Th OSD displays over the source video passing through the AVR. As there is no OTA video passing through the AVR, there is no OSD.

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post #9313 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 06:17 PM
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Th OSD displays over the source video passing through the AVR. As there is no OTA video passing through the AVR, there is no OSD.
I would say it is passing through the AVR via ARC. If it didn't pass through the AVR, the sound wouldn't come out of my speakers, eh? Fortunately, it's not that big of a deal. I suppose I could be remembering wrong that this was available on the Yamaha? Either way, no worries. Things are sounding great and I'm pleased with my purchase.
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post #9314 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 06:28 PM
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No, if you've got an antenna connected directly to the TV and you're watching that signal then there's NO path for the receiver to apply any video overlay. All that's passed back to the receiver via ARC is audio (it's Audio Return Channel). That's why you get audio through the speakers connected to the receiver.

In order to get the receiver's overlay there would have to be a video signal going into the receiver and then out to the TV. Watching an OTA signal directly into the TV doesn't allow for that. There's no path sending video to the receiver; only audio via ARC. I'd have thought this would've been obvious.

Note, I find it handy to use the TV's ability to pass it's IR volume up/down commands back to the receiver via HDMI-CEC. This way I can use my Tivo remote to control the volume when I'm watching using the receiver or via the built-in speakers during pass-through. This is handy for late night TV watching when I don't want to use the AVR's speakers. When the receiver's on I get the OSD showing "Home Theater Volume". When the receiver's off it just shows the TV's default Volume slider (it's a Panasonic VT60). This also allows using the regular Panasonic remotes.
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post #9315 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 07:05 PM
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No, if you've got an antenna connected directly to the TV and you're watching that signal then there's NO path for the receiver to apply any video overlay. All that's passed back to the receiver via ARC is audio (it's Audio Return Channel). That's why you get audio through the speakers connected to the receiver.

In order to get the receiver's overlay there would have to be a video signal going into the receiver and then out to the TV. Watching an OTA signal directly into the TV doesn't allow for that. There's no path sending video to the receiver; only audio via ARC. I'd have thought this would've been obvious.

Note, I find it handy to use the TV's ability to pass it's IR volume up/down commands back to the receiver via HDMI-CEC. This way I can use my Tivo remote to control the volume when I'm watching using the receiver or via the built-in speakers during pass-through. This is handy for late night TV watching when I don't want to use the AVR's speakers. When the receiver's on I get the OSD showing "Home Theater Volume". When the receiver's off it just shows the TV's default Volume slider (it's a Panasonic VT60). This also allows using the regular Panasonic remotes.
Thank you for clearing that up. Now I see. And thanks for the tip on HDMI-CEC.
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post #9316 of 10840 Old 11-10-2014, 07:48 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Although I can certainly understand your frustration, many thousands of X2000 owners are extremely happy with their units, likely experiencing no issues what so ever, not to mention a strong rating from Amazon reviews as well. Additionally, at this level, the Denon audio quality is likely superior to Yamaha's similar level models that can't even EQ the subwoofer. With a sub setting of -12db, you'll need to lower the gain knob on the BIC sub to about 7-9 o'clock and run Audyssey again until the setting is closer to 0db than to -12db.
Thanks for the tips! I'm sure the repair will go well, its just an added inconvenience. I will say the receiver did sound great.

So I'll mess with the sub gain knob once the receiver gets back, and is 80hz fine for the rest of the speakers? Sub at 120hz I take it as well?

Thanks
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post #9317 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
I would say it is passing through the AVR via ARC. If it didn't pass through the AVR, the sound wouldn't come out of my speakers, eh? Fortunately, it's not that big of a deal. I suppose I could be remembering wrong that this was available on the Yamaha? Either way, no worries. Things are sounding great and I'm pleased with my purchase.
ARC = AUDIO Return Channel. So it only sends audio back to the AVR, not video. Pick any external source besides ARC, and you'll get the overlay.
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post #9318 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 05:10 AM
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Thanks for the tips! I'm sure the repair will go well, its just an added inconvenience. I will say the receiver did sound great.

So I'll mess with the sub gain knob once the receiver gets back, and is 80hz fine for the rest of the speakers? Sub at 120hz I take it as well?

Thanks
You can raise any crossovers up to 80Hz (eg. 60Hz --> 80Hz), but don't lower any that are set > 80Hz (ie. 100Hz --> 80Hz). Leave the LPF for LFE set at it's factory default of 120Hz and raise the crossover setting on the sub to its maximum setting to allow the AVR to do the bass management.

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post #9319 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
Yes....I know...I am just on an extremely limited budget. However i have been saving and researching. The room is large...16.5x20x10 with several openings to entry ways. I am finding out that filling this room will cost me. Do you think a BIC PL-200 would be a upgrade? I would love to keep saving for a SVS PB1000 but I am afraid it won't fill my room. This Dayton plays fairly loud but it is loose and boomy. The location of the sub is without other options.
In a room your size I would think you'd be looking at the PB-2000 at a minimum.

I have a PL-200 in a 13.5x16.5x8 room that opens to a hallway and another room, and it works fine in there (well, from about 28Hz and up). HOWEVER, I used the sub crawl to find a good spot for it. If you are unable to place the sub where you would get the most out of it, any sub could produce substandard results.

If your SUB-120 is boomy you most likely have the gain up too high. Set it to about 11:00, re-run Audyssey at the MLP and see where it sets the sub level. Ideally you want it to be close to 0, anywhere from -5 to 0 should be fine. Then, if the sub isn't producing enough output, bump the trim up on the receiver, not on the sub itself.
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post #9320 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 01:03 PM
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In a room your size I would think you'd be looking at the PB-2000 at a minimum.

I have a PL-200 in a 13.5x16.5x8 room that opens to a hallway and another room, and it works fine in there (well, from about 28Hz and up). HOWEVER, I used the sub crawl to find a good spot for it. If you are unable to place the sub where you would get the most out of it, any sub could produce substandard results.

If your SUB-120 is boomy you most likely have the gain up too high. Set it to about 11:00, re-run Audyssey at the MLP and see where it sets the sub level. Ideally you want it to be close to 0, anywhere from -5 to 0 should be fine. Then, if the sub isn't producing enough output, bump the trim up on the receiver, not on the sub itself.
I'd really like to go lower than 28 Hz if I'm going to make an investment. But are you saying that a better sub will not improve the sound if I leave it in a place that is not ideal? Or are you just saying that it will never perform as well as it could?

Also, many people have reported the inherent boomy quality of the SUB-120. My current sub level in the AVR is -3. When I put the sub at half gain, Audyssey said it wasn't connected. So, I put it at 3/4 and it registered and set it up. Then I believe I ended up bumping it by 2 db (from -5 to -3). I'll have to confirm those numbers when I get home. I may be off by 1 or 2. Is there something else I'm missing?
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
You can raise any crossovers up to 80Hz (eg. 60Hz --> 80Hz), but don't lower any that are set > 80Hz (ie. 100Hz --> 80Hz). Leave the LPF for LFE set at it's factory default of 120Hz and raise the crossover setting on the sub to its maximum setting to allow the AVR to do the bass management.
Thank you very much!

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post #9322 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 08:52 PM
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When I switch inputs on the x1000, I am noticing that my roku doesn't seem to be "sleeping" while I have been on another input for a good while (checked the screen saver time and it is still set to the lowest setting...five minutes). My previous receiver would switch inputs and then I would see the roku screen saver and I would have to wake it up by pressing any remote button. Is this normal?
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post #9323 of 10840 Old 11-11-2014, 09:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
When I switch inputs on the x1000, I am noticing that my roku doesn't seem to be "sleeping" while I have been on another input for a good while (checked the screen saver time and it is still set to the lowest setting...five minutes). My previous receiver would switch inputs and then I would see the roku screen saver and I would have to wake it up by pressing any remote button. Is this normal?
My Roku sleeps fine when connected to my Denon.
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post #9324 of 10840 Old 11-12-2014, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
When I switch inputs on the x1000, I am noticing that my roku doesn't seem to be "sleeping" while I have been on another input for a good while (checked the screen saver time and it is still set to the lowest setting...five minutes). My previous receiver would switch inputs and then I would see the roku screen saver and I would have to wake it up by pressing any remote button. Is this normal?
My Roku sleeps fine when connected to my Denon.
What about when you leave it in the Netflix app while visiting another input past the chosen screen saver time out? Does it still go to the screen saver ? I may be an idiot. :-)
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post #9325 of 10840 Old 11-12-2014, 07:55 AM
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What about when you leave it in the Netflix app while visiting another input past the chosen screen saver time out? Does it still go to the screen saver ? I may be an idiot. :-)
I don't remember. I can test this weekend and post back. But my understanding is Roku uses the same amount of power all the time anyway. So it doesn't make any difference whether the screen saver ever comes on or not.
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post #9326 of 10840 Old 11-12-2014, 08:22 AM
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I don't remember. I can test this weekend and post back. But my understanding is Roku uses the same amount of power all the time anyway. So it doesn't make any difference whether the screen saver ever comes on or not.
You know...you are basically right. According to this article the only increase comes when you are streaming, and even then it is negligible: https://gigaom.com/2011/08/08/energy...ected-devices/

No need to test unless you just want to...if it's not sucking power, I'd rather have it ready for me like it is! Thanks.
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post #9327 of 10840 Old 11-13-2014, 01:35 PM
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I am also still experiencing problems with DD+ content with my AVR-X2000 after the update--similarly to Mr. Bowes. It sounds like digital artifacts in the form of "clicks" and "beeps". These artifacts can be noticeably heard in the front right channel and rear left channel. Can anyone else confirm this problem? It is very frustrating that this problem still remains unsolved. Any insight into this issue from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
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post #9328 of 10840 Old 11-13-2014, 01:36 PM
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Denon responded to my inquiry about this issue with this:

"Hello Mr. *****,

Our engineering team in Japan is still working on this issue. Any firmware update will be released at a later date. We will continue to keep this incident In Process. Once we hear anything on this particular issue, we will be in contact. Thank you for your patience.


Thank you,

Technical Support/Custom Install
D+M Group"

I highly suggest that everyone call Denon to report this issue as I have been told I have been the only reported case. This may speed things along for a more permanent solution as Denon has been "working on this" for several months since I reported it in June.
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post #9329 of 10840 Old 11-13-2014, 03:12 PM
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I am also still experiencing problems with DD+ content with my AVR-X2000 after the update--similarly to Mr. Bowes. It sounds like digital artifacts in the form of "clicks" and "beeps". These artifacts can be noticeably heard in the front right channel and rear left channel. Can anyone else confirm this problem? It is very frustrating that this problem still remains unsolved. Any insight into this issue from anyone would be greatly appreciated.
I recently purchased the AVR-X4000 and noticed this exact same issue! It's been driving me crazy since I only notice it on certain shows and scenes and half the time I'm wondering if I'm being paranoid and I'm just imagining it. Last night, I was watching an episode of The Following on netflix via chromecast and during one particular scene it was so loud and distracting that I actually got up and walked up close to each speaker to hear the sound more clearly. It did seem to be most prominent in the front right and left surround speakers, as you mentioned, but I'd want to check more sources before making a claim that it is only affecting those channels. It was very repeatable with the scene I was watching last night. I updated the firmware as soon as I installed the new AVR about 3 weeks ago, so it should be up to date.

Before reading your post, I was unsure of whether to suspect my speakers (which are also new), the AVR, or the audio stream itself. With your issue sounding nearly identical to mine, it seems like I can at least rule out the speaker part of the equation. In my case, I'd almost describe it as a "chirp" type of sound - high pitched and very digital/unnatural sounding, if that makes sense. It seems to occur during scenes where the dialogue is a bit louder.

I'm planning to check the following things over the next couple days using my "test scene" to try to isolate the issue:

1) Plug in a different speaker into the front right channel to rule out my new speakers definitively
2) Watch using another source to see if the chromecast is the issue (will probably use my PC for this)
3) My PS3 is currently out of commission for the YLOD - if I can resurrect it a second time, I'll try using the PS3 to decode the audio to PCM, which would show whether it is an issue with the Denon's dolby decoder

I'll report back with my findings after I've checked a few things, and if it looks like Denon is the culprit, I'll be sure to contact their support and let them know that I'm also seeing this issue.

HMNavy, were you also using netflix when you noticed the issue? Are there any particular movies/shows you could point me to that you've found which highlight the issue?
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post #9330 of 10840 Old 11-13-2014, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Are you guys on the latest firmware? There was a widespread issue with many receivers (not just Denon) when Netflix changed their DD+ encoding that caused strange digital artifacts. Denon has released updated firmware for many models to address this.

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