The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 314 - AVS Forum
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post #9391 of 9416 Old 11-18-2014, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
Just wanted to share a quick update regarding the DD+ (Netflix) decoding issue based on my conversations with Denon customer support last evening. After discussing the issue in some detail, the representative mentioned that he wanted to check whether he could reproduce it on the X4000 he had available there and I pointed him to a few of the test cases that have been shared here. He called me back about 2 hours later and said that he thought he was able to hear some of what I was describing, but that he wanted to do some more testing in a quieter location and with more sources. I'm expecting to hear back from him sometime tomorrow after he has a chance to do some more testing with the receiver in his home setup.

So far, I'm very happy with the level of support I've received from this representative, and he seems genuinely interested in figuring out what might be going on. Hopefully, I'll find out more tomorrow, and keeping my fingers crossed that there is a fix coming our way
Chessebach, I am very happy to hear you have had such a polarizing experience to mine. Hopefully, a fix will be on our way soon! Keep us posted.
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post #9392 of 9416 Old 11-18-2014, 04:27 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Although I can certainly understand your frustration, many thousands of X2000 owners are extremely happy with their units, likely experiencing no issues what so ever, not to mention a strong rating from Amazon reviews as well. Additionally, at this level, the Denon audio quality is likely superior to Yamaha's similar level models that can't even EQ the subwoofer. With a sub setting of -12db, you'll need to lower the gain knob on the BIC sub to about 7-9 o'clock and run Audyssey again until the setting is closer to 0db than to -12db.
The BIC F12 sub doesn't have a gain knob, just crossover and volume. I lowered the volume from 5 (middle) to 3. Audyssey is still setting the subwoofer level to -12 dB.

Thoughts?
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post #9393 of 9416 Old 11-18-2014, 05:30 PM
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^^
What you are referring to as the "volume" is actually the "gain". The objective is to not have the sub set to -12db so lower the "volume" to 2 and if that still doesn't work, then lower it to 1.

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post #9394 of 9416 Old 11-19-2014, 09:39 AM
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Which Denon models can use rack ears?

Not the full $80 shelf, just ear brackets.

Any of them?

I have some rack mounted components that all shipped with the ears - UPS, distributed audio system components, PDUs. I have a 3808, which isn't in the rack, but I think that may have shipped with ears too.

I'll probably just end up using a shelf, but thought I'd ask.

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post #9395 of 9416 Old 11-20-2014, 01:40 PM
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Heads Up on Good Price on X4000 1 Left

I just purchased an X4000 for $599 from an Amazon retailer (IQ Entertainment). The receiver has a full new warranty and this is an authorized dealer. I have purchased from this company before and was very pleased with the speakers i received. They were sold as "used- open box" but I couldn't tell the difference from being brand new. Not at all affiliated with this company-just passing on a deal I found.
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post #9396 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 04:46 AM
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Don't want to stray too far off topic but does anyone here have a newer Vizio m series tv! I'm considering the M702I-B3 but have read about some audio sync issues with certain receivers and even sound bars. I have an x3000 on the way and I am hoping the two play nice together (if I decide to get the Vizio).
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post #9397 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 01:23 PM
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Another update on the Dolby Digital Plus (Netflix) issue, for those interested:

The Denon customer service rep that I spoke to on Monday called me back yesterday with an update on the additional testing he did with one of their X4000 units they have available for debugging these types of issues. He said that he was clearly able to reproduce the issue with some of the Netflix content I pointed him to and that it was an issue with the way the receiver is handling this particular format. He said that the next step would be for him to elevate the issue to the development team and that they would try to determine the cause (firmware or hardware). After they identify the cause and path towards a solution I should receive a call back, which should hopefully be within 1-2 weeks.

Based on this feedback, it seems as though this issue is caused by something in the firmware or possibly even the hardware design of the receiver, so it's quite likely that all of the 2013 X-series have the issue. Given that this issue has persisted through a firmware update that was intended to address these DD+ decoding issues, I'm not how confident I am that a simple firmware update will be able to resolve this, especially if Denon has been aware of the issue since July. In the meantime, I'll be keeping my fingers crossed that someone really is already working on the fix as HMNavy was told earlier.
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post #9398 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 03:03 PM
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As someone who works in the software biz, I would like to point out that this may not be precisely the same issue that they have known about since July. I see it all the time, some new issue comes up and people think it is the same as a previous issue but there is some subtle difference.
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post #9399 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 03:29 PM
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I have an x2000, and find it a nice piece except for the volume control.


If I hold the volume on the remoter control, either up or down, it jumps many dB rather than smoothly changing a few dB like every other receiver I have had.


To get it to go up a few dB, I need to pulse the volume button.


Is this normal on Denon receivers?


Robert
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post #9400 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 03:37 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, that's how it works. Tap-tap-tap for small (0.5dB increment) changes, and if you hold it down it kicks into higher velocity mode. The key is to develop the "feel" for when it kicks in so you can get the gross jump to be approximately what you want, and then quickly relase and switch to tap-tap-tap to fine tune after you are in the general zone.

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post #9401 of 9416 Old 11-21-2014, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HMNavy View Post
Let me clarify, the Denon engineering team has already been able to reproduce this issue and I have also personally experienced this issue on a X1000 and a X2000. Here are some good samples where the issue that I am describing can be clearly heard as this issue is intermittent by nature. I highly encourage everyone to retest this and report this to Denon so a more permanent solution can finally be put into place. Hopefully, this could speed things along.


Netflix Titles "Chirping" Noise: Breaking Bad s01e01: 3:30-4:00
Hunger Games: 15:00-16:00
Bad Santa: 6:30-7:00

Please ensure that the source is bitstreaming DD+ to the AVR then decoded to be able to effectively reproduce this problem.
I ran this test tonight on my Denon X-1000 (just purchased in the last two weeks and running latest FW). My source is a Roku 3, and after some research, I believe I understand it to bitstream DD+ to the AVR...but I'm not 100% because Roku likes to make everything so simple that they don't use the real terms the rest of the audio world uses. Anyway, I could no longer find "Hunger Games" (the original) on Netflix, but on the other two examples, I was NOT able to hear any of the described noises. I know that doesn't seem to help those experiencing the problem, but if it starts to help narrow down that indeed it is either specific to only some Denon units OR only negatively interacting with some sources, then it's a small step toward a win for all.

I know how frustrating this must be...I had an Onkyo that made a digital pop when the encoding format would change at the end of a show. I took it back. I cannot imagine hearing something like that during the program. I encourage every owner to be a part of the solution and check these titles and report here...it will take you less than five minutes.
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post #9402 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 05:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheesebach View Post
Based on this feedback, it seems as though this issue is caused by something in the firmware or possibly even the hardware design of the receiver, so it's quite likely that all of the 2013 X-series have the issue.
If that's the case, everyone posting here should have the problem. I don't (x4000).

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post #9403 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 06:42 AM
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Just got an x3000, trying to set it up. All I have connected is a tivo at the moment. Just trying to get the basics and then add one device at a time.

At first I could see a picture but not hear any sound. This was with the x3000 on. So, I went into the menu and turned HDMI Control to ON. Now I can't even see any picture. I went back through the menu and turned it back off but still no picture????

Just for more info, I don't have any speakers hooked up to the x3000 now. I just want to get the tivo working through the tv speakers.

Also, keep in mind the Denon was powered ON. Shouldn't I still be able to hear the tv speakers when the denon is ON (no matter if hdmi control is ON or OFF)? I thought that's how my 1909 worked.

If the x3000 is OFF then I do get picture and sound on the tv.

Edit - SO, either it's working differently then my 1909 or...something else.

Last edited by de8212; Yesterday at 06:54 AM.
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post #9404 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 07:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gracepreacher View Post
Anyway, I could no longer find "Hunger Games" (the original) on Netflix, but on the other two examples, I was NOT able to hear any of the described noises.
Same here with the x2000. I used a Samsung BluRay player with bitstream/no compression. The Denon displayed DD+. Apparently Hunger Games is no longer on Netflix. I played Breaking Bad S1E1 and cranked the volume well above my normal volume level. I can't hear any popping or cracking. I paid close attention between 3 & 5 minutes in (Walt getting out of the camper in his underwear), I heard nothing strange.

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post #9405 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 07:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
Just got an x3000, trying to set it up. All I have connected is a tivo at the moment. Just trying to get the basics and then add one device at a time.

At first I could see a picture but not hear any sound. This was with the x3000 on. So, I went into the menu and turned HDMI Control to ON. Now I can't even see any picture. I went back through the menu and turned it back off but still no picture????

Just for more info, I don't have any speakers hooked up to the x3000 now. I just want to get the tivo working through the tv speakers.

Also, keep in mind the Denon was powered ON. Shouldn't I still be able to hear the tv speakers when the denon is ON (no matter if hdmi control is ON or OFF)? I thought that's how my 1909 worked.

If the x3000 is OFF then I do get picture and sound on the tv.

Edit - SO, either it's working differently then my 1909 or...something else.
When the Denon is off it passes the audio & video to the TV. When the Denon is on you need the speakers. It doesn't pass the audio in that scenario.

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post #9406 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 07:19 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by de8212 View Post
Just got an x3000, trying to set it up. All I have connected is a tivo at the moment. Just trying to get the basics and then add one device at a time.

At first I could see a picture but not hear any sound. This was with the x3000 on. So, I went into the menu and turned HDMI Control to ON. Now I can't even see any picture. I went back through the menu and turned it back off but still no picture????

Just for more info, I don't have any speakers hooked up to the x3000 now. I just want to get the tivo working through the tv speakers.

Also, keep in mind the Denon was powered ON. Shouldn't I still be able to hear the tv speakers when the denon is ON (no matter if hdmi control is ON or OFF)? I thought that's how my 1909 worked.

If the x3000 is OFF then I do get picture and sound on the tv.

Edit - SO, either it's working differently then my 1909 or...something else.
If the x3000 is like my 4250 then you need to setup which input is passed through when the denon is off. Then there is another setting that when the denon is on you can select avr or tv for speakers. You don't need and hdmi control on to make this work.

I have my cable as pass through when off. If the denon is off its passed through to my tv and projector. When off I have normal sound from my tv or built in projector speaker. As soon as I turn on the denon the tv regardless of tv volume it loses audio and is redirected to the denon. So then the sound is out the speakers connected to the denon.
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post #9407 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 07:44 AM
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Originally Posted by ferl View Post
When the Denon is off it passes the audio & video to the TV. When the Denon is on you need the speakers. It doesn't pass the audio in that scenario.
OK. I need to get some speaker wire so that will be later today. But, and I'm just talking out loud, when the Denon was ON, I had a picture at one time, but not now. And all I changed was HDMI Control. So, even if I do get my speakers connected, I'm a little confused as to where the video went??

Quote:
Originally Posted by bluer101 View Post
If the x3000 is like my 4250 then you need to setup which input is passed through when the denon is off. Then there is another setting that when the denon is on you can select avr or tv for speakers. You don't need and hdmi control on to make this work.

I have my cable as pass through when off. If the denon is off its passed through to my tv and projector. When off I have normal sound from my tv or built in projector speaker. As soon as I turn on the denon the tv regardless of tv volume it loses audio and is redirected to the denon. So then the sound is out the speakers connected to the denon.
Bolded part added by me. If you, or anyone can give me some specific setting names, I would appreciate it. I did go to the assign inputs and make sure it knows hdmi 1 is cbl/sat and that's where the tivo is plugged in. All other options are off under there (optical, analog, etc.)
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post #9408 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 07:54 AM
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Video/HDMI setup/HDMI audio out. Bluer101 is right, you can set the avr to output audio to tv.

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post #9409 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 08:26 AM
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OK, I did a reset and I think it's kinda working. Went ahead and used my old speaker wire (nothing wrong with it, I just need some longer ones) and sound comes out my speakers when the denon is on. When the Denon is off, the tv volume comes on.

BUt I could have swore...No, I'm positive that my 1909 would play sound out of the speakers and the tv speakers at the same time. Now, I know this is frowned upon and it's not something I want to do, it's just while I'm setting things up and tinkering I wanted to have the tv speakers on. Obviously, I won't do this in the end.
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post #9410 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 08:30 AM
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^^
Not possible with the 1909 (unless defective) or any Denon model as HDMI Audio Out is either "TV" or "AVR". Now what you likely had was the cable/sat box connected HDMI to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR and then you would indeed get audio from both TV and AVR.

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post #9411 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 08:38 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Not possible with the 1909 (unless defective) or any Denon model as HDMI Audio Out is either "TV" or "AVR". Now what you likely had was the cable/sat box connected HDMI to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR and then you would indeed get audio from both TV and AVR.
God, you're good. You're right. I had optical going to 1909.

Sorry.


I'll be back with more questions, I'm sure.
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post #9412 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 08:59 AM
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No worries. Here to help.

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post #9413 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 10:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
Not possible with the 1909 (unless defective) or any Denon model as HDMI Audio Out is either "TV" or "AVR". Now what you likely had was the cable/sat box connected HDMI to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR and then you would indeed get audio from both TV and AVR.
Yep, right on.

If you want to listen to your tv speakers while setting up just change it in the menu. Under video, hdmi setup, hdmi audio out. Set to tv remember to set back before scratching head after no sound out of speakers. Lol.
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post #9414 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 11:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Neurorad View Post
Which Denon models can use rack ears?

Not the full $80 shelf, just ear brackets.

Any of them?

I have some rack mounted components that all shipped with the ears - UPS, distributed audio system components, PDUs. I have a 3808, which isn't in the rack, but I think that may have shipped with ears too.

I'll probably just end up using a shelf, but thought I'd ask.
Any input, on this, jdsmoothie or Batpig?
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post #9415 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 01:57 PM
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^^
Sorry, no. Only familiar with the full shelf, although AFAIK, the Pro models ("P" designation) do come with the rack ears.

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post #9416 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 06:02 PM
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I am hoping to get a chance to set up Audyssey tomorrow on my x3000. I haven't done any calibrations since my 1909 ~4 - 5 yrs ago.

I'll search the thread but isn't it supposed to be a better interface on this model than it was back in the 1909 days? Any other words of wisdom are appreciated.
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post #9417 of 9416 Old Yesterday, 06:15 PM
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^^
Steps haven't changed except XT uses 8 mic positions instead of only 6 with MultEQ. Support mic with mic boom stand or camera tripod with mic at seated ear height at listener's ears for position 1 and positions 2-8 no more than a 2' radius around that 1st position.

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