The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 373 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11161 of 11480 Old 05-18-2015, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shunx View Post
I'm having difficulty determining the cause of my X4000's problem, and would appreciate some feedback: I've been having the random shut down issue (red blinking lights) with the receiver since the summer of 2014. The problem went away for a few months after I swapped an old speaker wire, but it recently came back for no apparent reason. Last month it would shut down even with no speakers connected. Denon suggested a microprocessor reset, so I did that, and it ran ok with two speakers several times, but after I connected more speakers, it would shut down again. But today I switched the center speaker and it's been running ok with L/C/R+sub speakers for a couple hours -- but that doesn't mean the problem won't come back. Basically I'm not sure what's wrong: the receiver, one or more speakers, one or more speaker wires, or something else.

Do you guys think I should keep testing this, or try to send it in for repair even though I haven't isolated the problem?
That depends on several factors. Would the problem be repeatable at the repair facility? If you can eliminate your speakers or connecting wires as causes, like when it shut down with nothing connected, that makes it more likely that the repair facility can agree that the receiver has a problem.

Do you still have warranty remaining? If so, then all it will cost you is getting it to the repair shop. However, be aware that the shop and Denon may decide to send you back a factory refurbished unit instead of trouble-shooting and repairing your original unit. That is what has happened to me. My X4000 developed network problems that only resets and unplugging would temporarily fix, so I shipped it to an authorized service center for warranty repair. After about ten days, without any communications from Denon or the service center I received a refurbished X4000. And wouldn't you know it, the refurb had the same network problem as my original unit. So now after a few phone conversations with Denon customer service, I have shipped the refurb back to Denon (they sent a FedEx label) and I am awaiting my next X4000.
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post #11162 of 11480 Old 05-18-2015, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tcassette View Post
That depends on several factors. Would the problem be repeatable at the repair facility? If you can eliminate your speakers or connecting wires as causes, like when it shut down with nothing connected, that makes it more likely that the repair facility can agree that the receiver has a problem.

Do you still have warranty remaining? If so, then all it will cost you is getting it to the repair shop. However, be aware that the shop and Denon may decide to send you back a factory refurbished unit instead of trouble-shooting and repairing your original unit. That is what has happened to me. My X4000 developed network problems that only resets and unplugging would temporarily fix, so I shipped it to an authorized service center for warranty repair. After about ten days, without any communications from Denon or the service center I received a refurbished X4000. And wouldn't you know it, the refurb had the same network problem as my original unit. So now after a few phone conversations with Denon customer service, I have shipped the refurb back to Denon (they sent a FedEx label) and I am awaiting my next X4000.
While my receiver did shut down with nothing connected, the problem cannot be duplicated after a microprocessor reset.

I'm testing different speaker setups and I noticed that the X4000 shut down within minutes after I connected my Klipsch center speaker (purchased new at the same time as the X4000), while it played for hours with an old Sony center speaker, using the same speaker wire. I connected the Sony speaker back, and no shut down so far. Does anyone know what this could mean -- a bad speaker, bad receiver configuration or some kind of hardware incompatibility? Both speakers have the same 8ohm impedance. I'm trying to see if the Klipsch center will cause problems at a different receiver. (Update: actually, I'm not sure a bad center speaker would explain why my X4000 also shut itself down yesterday when no center speaker was connected and only surround speakers were connected). (Update2: it shut down again anyway so it's not just the center speaker speaker. It might be due to the volume level.)

There are Denon service centers (ie repair shops) in my city so shipping is not a big issue.

Last edited by shunx; 05-19-2015 at 12:18 AM.
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post #11163 of 11480 Old 05-19-2015, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by archiguy View Post
Welcome to the "Protection Mode" club! You have been reading the thread, right? I only ask because the way you framed the question made it seem like you think your problem is unique. It's actually scarily common with the X4000.

I spoke with Denon technical support and, of course, they don't know of any "particular issue" with these premature shut-downs. Of course.

I then called United Radio, the "factory authorized service center" in New York and they seem to have a lot of these units coming back for this problem. Their solution, according to the girl who answers the phones (They won't let you talk to an actual repair tech -- she says they don't have any phones back there. Probably interferes with their gas lanterns.) said they typically "replace a few transistors" and ship it back out.

What I want to know, what everyone who has suffered this problem wants to know, is what is causing it? Is is some design flaw? If it's this common it must be, right? And what is the repair protocol that can permanently fix it? I've got too much invested in this thing to just pay the freight to ship it up there and have it come back with the same problem that will manifest itself again after the warranty runs out. Which, in my case, is in about 3 weeks.
Denon always used to have separate protection inside the actual power supply (would imagine they follow a similar topology still today). Usually heat caused from people driving things a little too hard in enclosed cabinets would trip this and require a trip to the doctor, since a reset wouldn't work for long if at all. It almost seems the best remedy would be to replace the transformer itself with a less-sensitive upgrade, but that would be a large endeavor from Denon to make different/new units for this issue.
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post #11164 of 11480 Old 05-19-2015, 05:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shunx View Post
I'm having difficulty determining the cause of my X4000's problem, and would appreciate some feedback: I've been having the random shut down issue (red blinking lights) with the receiver since the summer of 2014. The problem went away for a few months after I swapped an old speaker wire, but it recently came back for no apparent reason. Last month it would shut down even with no speakers connected. Denon suggested a microprocessor reset, so I did that, and it ran ok with two speakers several times, but after I connected more speakers, it would shut down again. But today I switched the center speaker and it's been running ok with L/C/R+sub speakers for a couple hours -- but that doesn't mean the problem won't come back. Basically I'm not sure what's wrong: the receiver, one or more speakers, one or more speaker wires, or something else.

Do you guys think I should keep testing this, or try to send it in for repair even though I haven't isolated the problem?
Welcome to the "Protection Mode" club! You have been reading the thread, right? I only ask because the way you framed the question made it seem like you think your problem is unique. It's actually scarily common with the X4000. The type and number of speakers you use (my setup is completely different) seems to make no difference.

I spoke with Denon technical support and, of course, they don't know of any "particular issue" with these premature shut-downs. Of course.

I then called United Radio, the "factory authorized service center" in New York and they seem to have a lot of these units coming back for this problem. Their solution, according to the girl who answers the phones (They won't let you talk to an actual repair tech -- she says they don't have any phones back there. Probably interferes with their gas lanterns.) said they typically "replace a few transistors" and ship it back out.

What I want to know, what everyone who has suffered this problem wants to know, is what is causing it? Is is some design flaw? If it's this common it must be, right? And what is the repair protocol that can permanently fix it? Denon doesn't even seem to be aware there is a systematic problem with the protection circuit. Or, more likely, they are aware and just won't admit it.

I've got too much invested in this thing to just pay the freight to ship it up there and have it come back with the same problem that will manifest itself again after the warranty runs out. Which, in my case, is in about 3 weeks.

edit: my post should have come before DeuceNine's post above. Caught me in a edit/delete/repost (AVS doesn't give you enough time to edit a post before adding the edit tag). But thanks for the info Deuce.
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post #11165 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 12:14 PM
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+1 to above. My X-4000 has died with very similar symptoms (shutdowns even with zero connected cables othern than power, crackling from channels) and I'm reluctant to send it to repair if I'll get a refurbished unit - it might just die again just as warranty expires. I'd love to hear a proper technical explanation for these problems.
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post #11166 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 05:07 PM
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Any Reason to Upgrade Firmware?

As of right now I have not connected my x4000 up to the internet. I don't use any of the internet feature of the unit. However, I was wondering if there was any important firmware updates that I might need. Everything seems to be working great right now, including HDCP so I don't want to update if there isn't a real reason to or if there were any potential broken firmware updates. Thanks.
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post #11167 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 05:18 PM
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^^
You can review the firmware change log in post ##6 of this thread.

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post #11168 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 07:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
You can review the firmware change log in post ##6 of this thread.
Thanks! Are the problems listed in the changelog what has been fixed or what is now the result of having updated to the newer firmware?
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post #11169 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 08:25 PM
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After some testing, I found a way to trigger the unexpected protection mode on my X4000: I needed to plug in at least 3 speakers and run it at reference volume (0dB or 80/99). If I did this, it triggered a shut down every time within 2 hours, even with a microprocessor reset. If I only used two speakers, it may not shut down.

I'll contact the local service center to see what they can do.
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post #11170 of 11480 Old 05-20-2015, 08:59 PM
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This only happens at reference level, and after 2 hours?
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post #11171 of 11480 Old 05-21-2015, 03:16 AM
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Thanks! Are the problems listed in the changelog what has been fixed or what is now the result of having updated to the newer firmware?
What has been fixed.
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post #11172 of 11480 Old 05-21-2015, 12:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Soulburner View Post
This only happens at reference level, and after 2 hours?
Not mine. It just shuts down randomly. It started working properly again for a few days, then the problem reappeared. Which is especially vexing (but might be a clue for those with enough technical knowledge). Now it's back to shutting down a few seconds after turning it on.
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post #11173 of 11480 Old 05-22-2015, 09:01 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
You can review the firmware change log in post ##6 of this thread.
Thanks. From what I understand from the FAQ is that the unit will notify you if there is an update (if the unit is set for auto-notifications), but it won't automatically update for you. Is that right? Thanks.
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post #11174 of 11480 Old 05-22-2015, 09:15 AM
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Thanks. From what I understand from the FAQ is that the unit will notify you if there is an update (if the unit is set for auto-notifications), but it won't automatically update for you. Is that right? Thanks.
Yes, that is correct.

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post #11175 of 11480 Old 05-24-2015, 06:50 PM
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Originally Posted by rudib View Post
+1 to above. My X-4000 has died with very similar symptoms (shutdowns even with zero connected cables othern than power, crackling from channels) and I'm reluctant to send it to repair if I'll get a refurbished unit - it might just die again just as warranty expires. I'd love to hear a proper technical explanation for these problems.
As I noted in a previous post, I received a refurbished X4000 from Denon instead of my original X4000 which had network problems. The refurbished unit had the same network issues. After communications with Denon Customer Service, they had me send back the defective refurb (they paid shipping) and they sent me a brand new AVR-X4100. Maybe they ran out of refurb X4000s.
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post #11176 of 11480 Old 05-24-2015, 08:41 PM
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Hey guys, first time poster, long time lurker here.

I've been a proud owner of a Denon AVR-X2000 for nearly two years, with zero issues - until now.

I replaced my Samsung UN55ES6500 55-inch 3D 1080p LED-backlit HDTV with an LG 55EA9800 55-inch 3D 1080p OLED HDTV and immediately started having issues when watching DirecTV, using a HR22-100 HD/DVR satellite receiver. The screen would be divided in three, with two small squares in the top half showing a distorted, different colored, fuzzy "live" picture each, and a large rectangle in the bottom half, showing a static "frozen" picture of whatever's being transmitted. In other words: making it impossible to watch.

I narrowed down the issue to the interlaced and progressive video scaler function of the receiver (i/p Scaler, under Video/Output Settings). The only way to get a normal picture is to set it to "off". Any other combination of resolutions and settings (including manually selecting other resolutions in the DVR) results in the same issue, or, in some cases, worse, with a tilted, flickering picture.

I tried using different HDMI cables, ports, even DVRs, but the problem persists. It doesn't happen with any other devices (such as my Blu-Ray player or next-gen videogame consoles), and it never happened before with my Samsung LED HDTV. In my experience, the receiver's video scaler produces a better picture than leaving that job to the DVR or the TV, so, I'd still like to use that function, even on my new TV (especially since DirecTV's signal is so compressed the PQ is severely impacted). It worked wonders before, after all.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
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post #11177 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 03:44 AM
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^^
Other than trying to power on the components in a specific order (eg. TV, pause 5 secs, AVR, pause 5 secs, DVR) try setting Picture Adjust to OFF if currently using that setting. Most likely leave "i/p Scaler" set to OFF due to there being no visual difference in clarity either way; however, in your case, it may be required to resolve the current issue.

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post #11178 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 06:06 AM
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X-4000 Zone 2 setup issue

Now that I'm in the correct thread I'm going to post a revised question since I've discovered new information.

My original question was how to get HDMI audio from my ATT Uverse cab/sat box to output thru my Zone 2 speakers rather than the TV speakers. That is still my question but I've realized that all my other HDMI sources (Playstation & Roku) do actually output thru the Zone 2 speakers, only the Uverse connection does not.

Furthermore, for more than a year I've been satisfied with the cab/sat box audio outputting thru the TV speakers. As of yesterday, I'm getting no audio in Zone from the cab/sat box which started my troubleshooting process. Periodically I won't get video either and sometimes it will shutdown the video in the Main zone. I have to turn off Zone 2 and the video/audio comes back on in the Main zone. I haven't tested it extensively but I think all of these connection problems are only related to the cab/sat connection.

I know this is lengthy and I need to distill this down to succinct questions so my first question is:

Is there any config issue I need to deal with to get the ATT cab/sat box to output thru the Zone 2 speakers?. As stated above, until yesterday Zone 2 audio was output thru the Zone 2 TV, now I can't get it even to do that. All other HDMI sources do output thru the Zone 2 speakers. The AT&T box is a Cisco unit and the only audio options provided is "surround sound" and "stereo". I've got stereo selected.

Thanks
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post #11179 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 06:56 AM
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Just bought another X1000 from A4L for my sons system in his apartment. What an incredible bargain these are! I love mine (hence why buying again) and I paid 30 more than the current asking price (of course the price was lowered a month after I bought mine ) but either way, an incredible bargain that includes Audyssey MultEQ XT!

A REALLY nice little AVR that we just love. Have not read of any issues with this model, but the X1100 has all kinds of issues. A4L only has a few left so if interested, now would be the time to get one in my opinion.

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post #11180 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 07:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ollie5050 View Post
Now that I'm in the correct thread I'm going to post a revised question since I've discovered new information.

My original question was how to get HDMI audio from my ATT Uverse cab/sat box to output thru my Zone 2 speakers rather than the TV speakers. That is still my question but I've realized that all my other HDMI sources (Playstation & Roku) do actually output thru the Zone 2 speakers, only the Uverse connection does not.

Furthermore, for more than a year I've been satisfied with the cab/sat box audio outputting thru the TV speakers. As of yesterday, I'm getting no audio in Zone from the cab/sat box which started my troubleshooting process. Periodically I won't get video either and sometimes it will shutdown the video in the Main zone. I have to turn off Zone 2 and the video/audio comes back on in the Main zone. I haven't tested it extensively but I think all of these connection problems are only related to the cab/sat connection.

I know this is lengthy and I need to distill this down to succinct questions so my first question is:

Is there any config issue I need to deal with to get the ATT cab/sat box to output thru the Zone 2 speakers?. As stated above, until yesterday Zone 2 audio was output thru the Zone 2 TV, now I can't get it even to do that. All other HDMI sources do output thru the Zone 2 speakers. The AT&T box is a Cisco unit and the only audio options provided is "surround sound" and "stereo". I've got stereo selected.

Thanks
If the ATT Uverse box isn't passing PCM 2.0 audio to the AVR over the HDMI cable then also connect an analog (red/white) cable and you should be good to go.

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post #11181 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 09:59 AM
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How do i SEE what is going on with Zone 2 if I don't have my phone app? I generally use it, but if I am sitting at my TV that's on the MAIN ZONE, and I want to turn on Zone 2 to another room for someone, I cannot figure out how to get any sort of on screen information about Zone 2. How do you see it? Do you have to have HDMI Zone 2 hooked up to the TV as well?
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post #11182 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by brazosdog02 View Post
How do i SEE what is going on with Zone 2 if I don't have my phone app? I generally use it, but if I am sitting at my TV that's on the MAIN ZONE, and I want to turn on Zone 2 to another room for someone, I cannot figure out how to get any sort of on screen information about Zone 2. How do you see it? Do you have to have HDMI Zone 2 hooked up to the TV as well?
There is no Zone 2 GUI, rather you would have to use the phone app or Web Control feature or look at the front panel display of the AVR.

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post #11183 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 04:19 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
If the ATT Uverse box isn't passing PCM 2.0 audio to the AVR over the HDMI cable then also connect an analog (red/white) cable and you should be good to go.
I just tried this but audio is still coming from the TV speakers, no audio from the Zone 2 speakers. The Uverse box has 4 red/white ports, the x4000 cab/sat only has two. I've attached two images and circled where I've got the cables attached. I've used both sets of red/white ports on the Uverse box with no results.

I know I can't be the only one who has a Cisco Uverse box, an X-4000 and wants to send the cable signal to Zone 2 speakers but I've performed many a Google search and so far haven't got any results.

Again thanks for taking the time to answer.
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post #11184 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 05:39 PM
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^^
The only way the HDMI CBL/SAT audio can pass to the TV speakers is ....

(1) CBL/SAT HDMI is connected directly to the TV
(2) While the AVR is ON, the HDMI Audio Out setting is set to TV rather than AVR
(3) While the AVR is in Standby, and the Pass Through source is set to CBL/SAT

However, none of the above has anything to do with Zone 2. For audio to come from the Zone 2 speakers, Zone 2 must be powered ON and the CBL/SAT source selected.

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post #11185 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 08:48 PM
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^^
Other than trying to power on the components in a specific order (eg. TV, pause 5 secs, AVR, pause 5 secs, DVR) try setting Picture Adjust to OFF if currently using that setting. Most likely leave "i/p Scaler" set to OFF due to there being no visual difference in clarity either way; however, in your case, it may be required to resolve the current issue.
Thank you for the reply, @jdsmoothie .

I followed your suggestion and tried powering on the components in the order you specified, however, I still faced the same issue. Also, Picture Mode was already set to Off, under Video/Picture Adjust, so the issue is not related to that.

I'm adding a picture to show you exactly what I'm seeing when turning the i/p Scaler On. That's Family Guy on FX HD (1080i @ 60Hz). Like I said, it looks normal when I turn that setting Off. The thing is I'd like to use the video scaler function, as it provides a better PQ, especially considering that all channels, with the exception of one (ESPN HD, in 720p) are presented in 1080i.

Currently, I'm getting a worse picture on my new OLED than on my "old" Samsung LED.
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post #11186 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 09:56 PM
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Hey guys, first time poster, long time lurker here.

I've been a proud owner of a Denon AVR-X2000 for nearly two years, with zero issues - until now.

I replaced my Samsung UN55ES6500 55-inch 3D 1080p LED-backlit HDTV with an LG 55EA9800 55-inch 3D 1080p OLED HDTV and immediately started having issues when watching DirecTV, using a HR22-100 HD/DVR satellite receiver. The screen would be divided in three, with two small squares in the top half showing a distorted, different colored, fuzzy "live" picture each, and a large rectangle in the bottom half, showing a static "frozen" picture of whatever's being transmitted. In other words: making it impossible to watch.

I narrowed down the issue to the interlaced and progressive video scaler function of the receiver (i/p Scaler, under Video/Output Settings). The only way to get a normal picture is to set it to "off". Any other combination of resolutions and settings (including manually selecting other resolutions in the DVR) results in the same issue, or, in some cases, worse, with a tilted, flickering picture.

I tried using different HDMI cables, ports, even DVRs, but the problem persists. It doesn't happen with any other devices (such as my Blu-Ray player or next-gen videogame consoles), and it never happened before with my Samsung LED HDTV. In my experience, the receiver's video scaler produces a better picture than leaving that job to the DVR or the TV, so, I'd still like to use that function, even on my new TV (especially since DirecTV's signal is so compressed the PQ is severely impacted). It worked wonders before, after all.

Any help would be much appreciated. Thanks!
What setting do you have enabled to output display format on your directv set to?
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post #11187 of 11480 Old 05-25-2015, 11:32 PM
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What setting do you have enabled to output display format on your directv set to?
Thank you for the reply, @johnnymacIII .

By display format, you mean the TV resolutions? If so, as with my Samsung LED, I had them all activated (480i, 480p, 720p, 1080i and 1080p), so each channel would be exhibited in their own native resolution. Then, because of the issue presented, I tried selecting each resolution individually, to no avail.
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post #11188 of 11480 Old 05-26-2015, 02:49 AM
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Thank you for the reply, @jdsmoothie .

I followed your suggestion and tried powering on the components in the order you specified, however, I still faced the same issue. Also, Picture Mode was already set to Off, under Video/Picture Adjust, so the issue is not related to that.

I'm adding a picture to show you exactly what I'm seeing when turning the i/p Scaler On. That's Family Guy on FX HD (1080i @ 60Hz). Like I said, it looks normal when I turn that setting Off. The thing is I'd like to use the video scaler function, as it provides a better PQ, especially considering that all channels, with the exception of one (ESPN HD, in 720p) are presented in 1080i.

Currently, I'm getting a worse picture on my new OLED than on my "old" Samsung LED.
Have you tried setting the AVR to a specific resolution other than Auto? Otherwise, you could try a soft reset (unplug power cord for 10 minutes) and if no joy, a microprocessor reset (see post ##5 of this thread), otherwise, it would seem the only option is to set "i/p Scaler" to OFF for that one source.

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post #11189 of 11480 Old 05-26-2015, 05:39 AM
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Have you tried setting the AVR to a specific resolution other than Auto? Otherwise, you could try a soft reset (unplug power cord for 10 minutes) and if no joy, a microprocessor reset (see post ##5 of this thread), otherwise, it would seem the only option is to set "i/p Scaler" to OFF for that one source.
Yes, I've tried each and every one of the available resolutions. In some cases, it would only make matters worse, with an even more distorted - tilted, flickering - picture (e.g., 1080p:24Hz, 720p).

If the source resolution is of an equal or lesser value than the one selected (1080i or 480p/576p for most HD channels, which are broadcasted in 1080i; 720p for ESPN HD, which is broadcasted in 720p), nothing happens, as the scaler is not used (confirmed in HDMI Signal Info.). However, when watching SD channels (broadcasted in 480i), all of the resolutions cause the issue at hand. 4K obviously gives a black picture (no signal), since the panel is 1080p.

While on that subject, when checking compatible resolutions for my TV (HDMI Monitor, under General/Information/Video), pretty much all of them are listed: 480p, 576i/p, 1080i:50/60Hz, 720p:50/60Hz, 1080p:24/25/30/50/60Hz.

Would any of the suggested resets erase my previous configuration (including Audyssey setup)? I'm assuming yes, but still would like to make sure before proceeding with the test. If so, is there any way to save the configuration file, perhaps to a USB device?

Edited: Just read your posts (#4 and #5 ), and they provide the answers to my previous questions. Will try resetting the AVR later.

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post #11190 of 11480 Old 05-26-2015, 05:43 AM
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Yes, I've tried each and every one of the available resolutions. In some cases, it would only make matters worse, with an even more distorted - tilted, flickering - picture (e.g., 1080p:24Hz, 720p).

If the source resolution is of an equal or lesser value than the one selected (1080i or 480p/576p for most HD channels, which are broadcasted in 1080i; 720p for ESPN HD, which is broadcasted in 720p), nothing happens, as the scaler is not used (confirmed in HDMI Signal Info.). However, when watching SD channels (broadcasted in 480i), all of the resolutions cause the issue at hand. 4K obviously gives a black picture (no signal), since the panel is 1080p.

While on that subject, when checking compatible resolutions for my TV (HDMI Monitor, under General/Information/Video), pretty much all of them are listed: 480p, 576i/p, 1080i:50/60Hz, 720p:50/60Hz, 1080p:24/25/30/50/60Hz.

Would any of the suggested resets erase my previous configuration (including Audyssey setup)? I'm assuming yes, but still would like to make sure before proceeding with the test. If so, is there any way to save the configuration file, perhaps to a USB device?

A soft reset does not result in any loss of settings while a microprocessor reset will. Please review the SAVE/LOAD info I provide in post ##3 of this thread and in the below link ....

The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ

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