The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 374 - AVS | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews
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post #11191 of 11214 Old 05-26-2015, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
A soft reset does not result in any loss of settings while a microprocessor reset will. Please review the SAVE/LOAD info I provide in post ##3 of this thread and in the below link ....

The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ
Thank you, JD. I edited my previous message to inform you that I had found the answers to my questions on your other posts, but you were faster than me.

I'll try resetting the AVR later today, when I'm home, and I'll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!
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post #11192 of 11214 Old 05-26-2015, 08:06 AM
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^^
The only way the HDMI CBL/SAT audio can pass to the TV speakers is ....

(1) CBL/SAT HDMI is connected directly to the TV
(2) While the AVR is ON, the HDMI Audio Out setting is set to TV rather than AVR
(3) While the AVR is in Standby, and the Pass Through source is set to CBL/SAT

However, none of the above has anything to do with Zone 2. For audio to come from the Zone 2 speakers, Zone 2 must be powered ON and the CBL/SAT source selected.
I guess I'm not being clear. I have a TV in Zone 2. I also have speakers in Zone 2. Everything is working correctly in the Main Zone. I want to deliver cbl/sat hdmi video to the TV in Zone 2 and audio to the Zone 2 speakers. Currently, both HDMI video/audio are delivered to the TV only. The Zone 2 speakers aren't being utilized. One additional factoid, all other sources (Blu Ray, Roku, Cd) connected via HDMI or optical all utilize Zone 2 speakers while delivering the video to the Zone 2 TV. In other words, it works like it is suppose to work.


Since all other sources work like they are suppose to, I have to guess it is how the Uverse box is delivering the signal to the X-4000. Per the images in my previous post, I've backed up the HDMI connection with red/white cables but that's had no effect. Could it possibly have something to do with the Decode Mode?
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post #11193 of 11214 Old 05-26-2015, 08:32 AM
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^^
If all other HDMI sources work without issue, then the problem is more likely with the Uverse box. Either it cannot output audio simultaneously over the HDMI and analog cables or it is not passing PCM 2.0 over the HDMI cable. As a test, try changing the INPUT MODE for the CBL/SAT source to "Analog" in the main zone. Here any audio from the analog cables? If not .. there's the problem. Likewise with the INPUT MODE set back to AUTO or HDMI, and you press the INFO button, do you see PCM 2.0? If not ... there's the problem.

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post #11194 of 11214 Old 05-26-2015, 09:09 AM
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There is no Zone 2 GUI, rather you would have to use the phone app or Web Control feature or look at the front panel display of the AVR.
Cool. Thanks! Making sure im not missing something. Denon App works pretty well, somewhat flaky but pretty well.
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post #11195 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 06:34 AM
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I was all set to buy the x4000 at A4L until I read about the protection mode issue. Assuming the x3000 has the features to suit my immediate need, is the addition of the XT32 and the increased power worth the extra dollars and risk?

The x3000 currently has a free 3 year warranty as well, making it a bit more attractive.
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post #11196 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 09:47 AM - Thread Starter
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I was all set to buy the x4000 at A4L until I read about the protection mode issue. Assuming the x3000 has the features to suit my immediate need, is the addition of the XT32 and the increased power worth the extra dollars and risk?

The x3000 currently has a free 3 year warranty as well, making it a bit more attractive.
Do you have to buy right now? XT32 is definitely worth it (the increased power is meaningless) but I'd probably rather have the newer X4100, so if you can be patient and wait for it to be discounted more steeply you'd get the superior audio plus more peace of mind (haven't heard a whisper of the random shutdown issue in the X4100/X5200 thread) and the flexibility to implement Atmos.
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post #11197 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 10:28 AM
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Do you have to buy right now?
Thank you! I am building a HT from scratch so right now I have none.

Perhaps I get a X1100 ($250) or X2100 ($320) and upgrade later? They both have the free 3 year warranties as well. Or, A4L has the refurb X4100 for $800 (no free warranty). I wonder if I should just get the X4100....

Getting ready to order the Sony HW40ES and SVS speakers/sub so will need something to drive everything.
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post #11198 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Dave View Post
I was all set to buy the x4000 at A4L until I read about the protection mode issue. Assuming the x3000 has the features to suit my immediate need, is the addition of the XT32 and the increased power worth the extra dollars and risk?

The x3000 currently has a free 3 year warranty as well, making it a bit more attractive.
You can get a new x4000 from Amazon for $799. The current seller is Listen Up which is an authorized dealer, so you would be getting a full 3 year warranty. In my opinion, if you are going to be keeping this AVR for a while, the upgrade to xt32 is well worth it. Not that XT isn't good, but in the grand scheme of things, when you add up the cost of your sub, speakers, room treatments, ect.; an extra $200 for a brand new unit with flagship Audyssey is something I would highly consider.

And if you go through Amazon, you don't have to worry about paying for return shipping if it shows up at your doorstep with an issue. I had to pay $88 to ship my 2 week old unit back to Accessories4less.

I hope this helps. Either way, both receivers are very good and you will enjoy either one you choose
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post #11199 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 11:20 AM
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@jdsmoothie ,

I tried both resets and the issue persists.

As a test, I also tried plugging in the DVR using component video cables (and coaxial digital audio). I could then use the AVR's video scaler function with no major drawbacks, except for a narrow flickering horizontal "line" across the screen on recorded programs, something that had never occurred before.

Other problems were a noticeable loss in PQ when compared to HDMI, and the fact that 1080p is not an option on component, so native 1080p (e.g., VOD) is out of question.

Not being able to pinpoint exactly what's causing this issue is extremely frustrating. At first, I thought it was some kind of incompatibility between my specific devices - AVR, TV and DVR -, since my previous set had no such issues, and was even considering returning the panel. However, the TV displays its information (menus and whatnot) correctly, even when i/p scaler is set to "On", so it's clearly not a TV issue.

I called DirecTV (or, rather, the Brazilian equivalent to it: Sky, which is owned and operated by DirecTV, and uses the same hardware and software) and asked for a replacement DVR. The Genie DVRs (model HR44) still aren't available in my country, so they will most likely replace my current unit with an HR24. Aside from that, I don't know what else to do.
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post #11200 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 11:46 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Buckeye Dave View Post
Thank you! I am building a HT from scratch so right now I have none.

Perhaps I get a X1100 ($250) or X2100 ($320) and upgrade later? They both have the free 3 year warranties as well. Or, A4L has the refurb X4100 for $800 (no free warranty). I wonder if I should just get the X4100....

Getting ready to order the Sony HW40ES and SVS speakers/sub so will need something to drive everything.
IMO - if you are building an HT from scratch it's crazy NOT to plan for 3D immersive audio, even if you can't implement everything yet. Atmos/DTS:X decoders will soon be as ubiquitous as Dolby TrueHD/DTS-HD, and more and more content will have immersive audio encoding. So even if you don't add overhead speakers now, make sure to wire for at least 4 (front/rear) while you are in construction phase.

That said, it's a decision point which is obviously driven by budget and current needs. If you need the resources now for other purchases like the PJ/speakers, nothing wrong with going for an inexpensive 7.1 model right now, and then upgrading to a fully fledged 9 or 11ch model in a year or two when you are able. Because the current models (unless you spring for the X7200W) don't have HDCP2.2 support or Neo:X decoding, for a long term purchase it's probably better to wait for the fall at a minimum when next gen models with XT32, Atmos/DTS:X and HDCP2.2 start coming out.

So I guess that means I'd recommend getting a cheap 7.1 model with MultEQ XT for now, and then upgrading to something higher end in a year or so when prices drop and you can get an X4200 (or whatever it will be called) for a good price.
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post #11201 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 11:55 AM
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@jdsmoothie ,

I tried both resets and the issue persists.

As a test, I also tried plugging in the DVR using component video cables (and coaxial digital audio). I could then use the AVR's video scaler function with no major drawbacks, except for a narrow flickering horizontal "line" across the screen on recorded programs, something that had never occurred before.

Other problems were a noticeable loss in PQ when compared to HDMI, and the fact that 1080p is not an option on component, so native 1080p (e.g., VOD) is out of question.

Not being able to pinpoint exactly what's causing this issue is extremely frustrating. At first, I thought it was some kind of incompatibility between my specific devices - AVR, TV and DVR -, since my previous set had no such issues, and was even considering returning the panel. However, the TV displays its information (menus and whatnot) correctly, even when i/p scaler is set to "On", so it's clearly not a TV issue.

I called DirecTV (or, rather, the Brazilian equivalent to it: Sky, which is owned and operated by DirecTV, and uses the same hardware and software) and asked for a replacement DVR. The Genie DVRs (model HR44) still aren't available in my country, so they will most likely replace my current unit with an HR24. Aside from that, I don't know what else to do.

As the issue has only developed since introducing the new LG TV, it would seem your only option is to set "i/p Scaler" set to OFF until you can change out the DVR.

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So I guess that means I'd recommend getting a cheap 7.1 model with MultEQ XT for now, and then upgrading to something higher end in a year or so when prices drop and you can get an X4200 (or whatever it will be called) for a good price.
Thank you, your input is valuable and greatly appreciated!
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post #11203 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 12:03 PM
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I hope this helps. Either way, both receivers are very good and you will enjoy either one you choose
Excellent feedback, thank you very much!
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post #11204 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 12:45 PM
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As the issue has only developed since introducing the new LG TV, it would seem your only option is to set "i/p Scaler" set to OFF until you can change out the DVR.
Is this a known issue, JD? I've honestly never heard of anything like it. I'm trying to find a technical reason for it to happen, considering it only occurs with one source, only with the image provided by the DVR, and only with this TV, even if the latter's menus are displayed correctly (the same can't be said of the menus overlaid by the AVR, though).

Also, is the analog picture really of lesser quality when compared to HDMI, or is that something of my head? Last time I touched component video cables was to plug in my original ("fat") Xbox 360. I've then switched to a slim one, which has HDMI.

"DirecTV" will bring me a new DVR tomorrow, we'll see what happens.

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post #11205 of 11214 Old 05-27-2015, 12:50 PM
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^^
Known issue? Yes indeed. Cable/sat boxes can have issues with any brand of AVR. Just depends on the AVR and TV in the mix.

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^^
Known issue? Yes indeed. Cable/sat boxes can have issues with any brand of AVR. Just depends on the AVR and TV in the mix.
I had no idea that changing just the TV could cause problems. I assumed that panels with the same resolution would behave equally under the same mix (AVR and sat box).

What's driving me nuts is that the TV menus, for some reason, are displayed correctly. Shouldn't they be messed up as well?

What about the HDMI/component PQ? Does it differ?

I appreciate all of your help and feedback so far. Thank you!
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post #11207 of 11214 Old Yesterday, 05:43 PM
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Given good source programming HDMI will always provide a better picture than any of the analog cable connections. How much better depends on the video monitor being watched.

---- Dan in Saint Louis
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post #11208 of 11214 Old Yesterday, 07:24 PM
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Given good source programming HDMI will always provide a better picture than any of the analog cable connections. How much better depends on the video monitor being watched.
Thanks, Dan. I knew I wasn't imagining things! :P

It's a shame to use an analog cable connection on an OLED HDTV. DirecTV failed to show up today, hopefully when they do show up, the new DVR they bring will be "compatible" with my other devices.

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If I was to add surround back channels to my 5.1 setup to make it 7.1 how would my x4000 playback my 5.1 movies? Would the surround backs not be used, would it employ some type of prologic, or would it just play back what was coming out of my side surrounds through my back surrounds as well? Thanks.
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It is a matrix. It all depends on the setting you set the AVR to.

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Originally Posted by EeK9X View Post
I had no idea that changing just the TV could cause problems. I assumed that panels with the same resolution would behave equally under the same mix (AVR and sat box).

What's driving me nuts is that the TV menus, for some reason, are displayed correctly. Shouldn't they be messed up as well?

What about the HDMI/component PQ? Does it differ?

I appreciate all of your help and feedback so far. Thank you!
Not really ... should be fairly comparable in fact.

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post #11212 of 11214 Old Today, 03:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnnymacIII View Post
If I was to add surround back channels to my 5.1 setup to make it 7.1 how would my x4000 playback my 5.1 movies? Would the surround backs not be used, would it employ some type of prologic, or would it just play back what was coming out of my side surrounds through my back surrounds as well? Thanks.
Going to depend on the audio track. DTS tracks will generally automatically be played to 7CH while DD tracks would have to use DD PLIIx to simulate audio to the SBL/SBR speakers.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Given good source programming HDMI will always provide a better picture than any of the analog cable connections. How much better depends on the video monitor being watched.
Quote:
Originally Posted by EeK9X View Post
Thanks, Dan. I knew I wasn't imagining things! :P

It's a shame to use an analog cable connection on an OLED HDTV. DirecTV failed to show up today, hopefully when they do show up, the new DVR they bring will be "compatible" with my other devices.
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Not really ... should be fairly comparable in fact.
Yep. Component will be pretty much identical. You're not missing anything using component from a DirecTV DVR.

But I have to ask, how on earth did you end up with a DirecTV DVR that lacked HDMI? I haven't seen one of those in nearly 10 years! By "analog cable", I assume you mean component. If you mean actual coax from your analog cable TV service, then yes, DirecTV will be a huge improvement over that. I didn't think analog cable still existed. All the major companies have gone all digital.
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Not really ... should be fairly comparable in fact.
Your mileage may vary. The difference was easy to see on a recent Samsung 55" TV.

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