The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 420 - AVS Forum | Home Theater Discussions And Reviews

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post #12571 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 01:01 PM
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Are the firmware versions posted at the beginning of this thread somewhere? I've looked and only see how to update it and what each version has fixed but no version numbers.

My current version, X4000, is 5630-9776-1665. Is that most recent firmware version for this model?

Thanks
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post #12572 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parekoy View Post
How come i cant still log in on pandora from my x4000? I thought there's an update to fix it?

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Did you check the below page for your model number?

http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answer...-using-pandora

Also check this post by jdsmoothie.
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post #12573 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 02:55 PM
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Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
I've got an X4000 going into protection mode (red light flashes rapidly). I'm only using the preamp outputs on it, (no speakers connected directly to it), so no chance of it being a short in the speaker wire.

The manual suggests the amp circuit may be toast. The unit is just three years old.

Is there a known fix for this? My warranty is done and there isn't an authorized repair centre anywhere near me. Thinking I might try a local repair shop. Would help if I can point them in the right direction.
So, I've got an update on my situation. I found a link to a youtube video that shows a fellow supposedly fixing this problem, or a similar problem.


As my unit is out of warranty, I decided to give this a shot. I opened my unit up. I did not find any loose wires, as shown in the video. I did, however, pull out that same connector, pushed the wires in just in case (though I saw no visible evidence that anything was loose). I re-connected the white connector, and then plugged the unit back in and turned it on. Prior to this, it was going into protection every 5-10 minutes. I left it on for a couple of hours and it did not shut off. I put the cover back on, hooked everything back up, and have had several hours of trouble-free operation since then.

I'll re-iterate, that I did not see the problem shown in the video (loose wires), when I had the cover off. I did not think that anything I had done could have made a difference (though I did un-plug that white connector and plugged it back in, it didn't seem the least bit loose or poorly seated). I was trying to think what could have made the difference. At this point, I remembered wiping a bit of cobweb away from the back of the unit after I pulled it out of my entertainment center (the unit had been sitting there, undisturbed and performing flawlessly for three years). The web was hanging from one of the binding posts on the back of the unit.

Is it possible that a bit of spider web could have caused a short, in the same way that a stray strand of speaker wire might do? Or is that sheer idiocy and wishful thinking? I'm perfectly willing to accept the latter, but I'm hoping that it is the former, as this would mean that the unit was operating as intended (protecting against a short circuit), and does not have a manufacturing flaw. I guess time will tell. I'll report back again if I experience any further issues.
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post #12574 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Did you check the below page for your model number?

http://denon.custhelp.com/app/answer...-using-pandora

Also check this post by jdsmoothie.
Hi it says x4000 nov 24 was released date. Its nov 27 nov. But still i dont receive any updates in my x4000 pandora still borks.

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post #12575 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 03:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parekoy View Post
Hi it says x4000 nov 24 was released date. Its nov 27 nov. But still i dont receive any updates in my x4000 pandora still borks.

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jdsmoothie's post indicates that it's now pushed out to Jan 2017,

Quote:
Pandora update fix
D&M will begin releasing the Pandora fix beginning with the newer models and working back to the 2013 models on the following schedule:

2013 Models
Jan 2017 – E300, E400, X1000, X2000, X3000, X4000
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post #12576 of 12598 Old 11-27-2016, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
Is it possible that a bit of spider web could have caused a short, in the same way that a stray strand of speaker wire might do? Or is that sheer idiocy and wishful thinking? I'm perfectly willing to accept the latter, but I'm hoping that it is the former, as this would mean that the unit was operating as intended (protecting against a short circuit), and does not have a manufacturing flaw. I guess time will tell. I'll report back again if I experience any further issues.
I wonder about that, because I had this problem about six months after I bought the unit. I shipped it for warranty repair. They couldn't duplicate the problem, dusted it out, and mailed it back. Here it's 2-1/2 years later, and the problem hasn't recurred. So maybe mine was caused by dust shorting out the circuit somehow??

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post #12577 of 12598 Old 11-28-2016, 05:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
So, I've got an update on my situation. I found a link to a youtube video that shows a fellow supposedly fixing this problem, or a similar problem.

https://youtu.be/BtLOpqGlY5E

As my unit is out of warranty, I decided to give this a shot. I opened my unit up. I did not find any loose wires, as shown in the video. I did, however, pull out that same connector, pushed the wires in just in case (though I saw no visible evidence that anything was loose). I re-connected the white connector, and then plugged the unit back in and turned it on. Prior to this, it was going into protection every 5-10 minutes. I left it on for a couple of hours and it did not shut off. I put the cover back on, hooked everything back up, and have had several hours of trouble-free operation since then.

I'll re-iterate, that I did not see the problem shown in the video (loose wires), when I had the cover off. I did not think that anything I had done could have made a difference (though I did un-plug that white connector and plugged it back in, it didn't seem the least bit loose or poorly seated). I was trying to think what could have made the difference. At this point, I remembered wiping a bit of cobweb away from the back of the unit after I pulled it out of my entertainment center (the unit had been sitting there, undisturbed and performing flawlessly for three years). The web was hanging from one of the binding posts on the back of the unit.

Is it possible that a bit of spider web could have caused a short, in the same way that a stray strand of speaker wire might do? Or is that sheer idiocy and wishful thinking? I'm perfectly willing to accept the latter, but I'm hoping that it is the former, as this would mean that the unit was operating as intended (protecting against a short circuit), and does not have a manufacturing flaw. I guess time will tell. I'll report back again if I experience any further issues.
Good find on the YouTube video. As I reported a few posts ago, my X4000 went into protection mode for the 1st time in 2 1/2 years of service. I had hoped it was a one off, but yesterday it started tripping repeatedly.

I still have warranty until April, so I will send it in for service. If it was not under warranty, I too would at least pull the cover and give the connector in the video some attention, but I don't want to mess with it.

As an aside, I still have my 3808 which the X4000 replaced. I did a full swap, including reprogramming my Harmony One in about 90 minutes. Got it all done just in time for EP9 of Westworld. :-)

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post #12578 of 12598 Old 11-28-2016, 05:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
Are the firmware versions posted at the beginning of this thread somewhere? I've looked and only see how to update it and what each version has fixed but no version numbers.

My current version, X4000, is 5630-9776-1665. Is that most recent firmware version for this model?

Thanks
I don't post version numbers, rather the AVR will indicate whether it has the most current firmware version or not.
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post #12579 of 12598 Old 11-28-2016, 05:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parekoy View Post
Hi it says x4000 nov 24 was released date. Its nov 27 nov. But still i dont receive any updates in my x4000 pandora still borks.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Keenan View Post
jdsmoothie's post indicates that it's now pushed out to Jan 2017,

I edited that post to indicate the current dates, which for the X3000 and X4000 (as already released to the lower 2013 models) was supposed to have been November 24. The update will likely be released this week.
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post #12580 of 12598 Old 11-28-2016, 10:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BGLeduc View Post
Good find on the YouTube video. As I reported a few posts ago, my X4000 went into protection mode for the 1st time in 2 1/2 years of service. I had hoped it was a one off, but yesterday it started tripping repeatedly.

I still have warranty until April, so I will send it in for service. If it was not under warranty, I too would at least pull the cover and give the connector in the video some attention, but I don't want to mess with it.

As an aside, I still have my 3808 which the X4000 replaced. I did a full swap, including reprogramming my Harmony One in about 90 minutes. Got it all done just in time for EP9 of Westworld. :-)


Funny. My X4000 also replaced a 3808. I sold the 3808 after purchasing the X4000, but on Saturday, I was really wishing I had kept it!
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post #12581 of 12598 Old 11-28-2016, 10:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
Funny. My X4000 also replaced a 3808. I sold the 3808 after purchasing the X4000, but on Saturday, I was really wishing I had kept it!
For giggles and sheets, I have the X4000 sitting on the floor, plugged in, powered up, with nothing connected to it but the power cord. Curious if it will go into protection while just idling.

I have a separate 2CH systems, which is where the 3808 was until a just a couple weeks ago. I like swapping gear in and out of that rig, and had just swapped in an integrated amp in place of the 3808. I was kind of glad I had done that, otherwise I would have had to tear apart my 2CH rig in order to swap the 3808 into my HT system.

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post #12582 of 12598 Old 11-29-2016, 05:14 AM
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I received a message this morning that there was an update for my X3000 when I started watching TV. I requested the update a few times due to connection failures etc, but it finally connected and now I can run Pandora.


No news on when my 3311CI will be updated.
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post #12583 of 12598 Old 11-29-2016, 05:23 AM
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Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
So, I've got an update on my situation. I found a link to a youtube video that shows a fellow supposedly fixing this problem, or a similar problem.

Great find! Thanks for posting this. I've added it to the Issues item in post 4 of this thread.
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post #12584 of 12598 Old 11-29-2016, 11:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tboe77 View Post
So, I've got an update on my situation. I found a link to a youtube video that shows a fellow supposedly fixing this problem, or a similar problem.



https://youtu.be/BtLOpqGlY5E



As my unit is out of warranty, I decided to give this a shot. I opened my unit up. I did not find any loose wires, as shown in the video. I did, however, pull out that same connector, pushed the wires in just in case (though I saw no visible evidence that anything was loose). I re-connected the white connector, and then plugged the unit back in and turned it on. Prior to this, it was going into protection every 5-10 minutes. I left it on for a couple of hours and it did not shut off. I put the cover back on, hooked everything back up, and have had several hours of trouble-free operation since then.



I'll re-iterate, that I did not see the problem shown in the video (loose wires), when I had the cover off. I did not think that anything I had done could have made a difference (though I did un-plug that white connector and plugged it back in, it didn't seem the least bit loose or poorly seated). I was trying to think what could have made the difference. At this point, I remembered wiping a bit of cobweb away from the back of the unit after I pulled it out of my entertainment center (the unit had been sitting there, undisturbed and performing flawlessly for three years). The web was hanging from one of the binding posts on the back of the unit.



Is it possible that a bit of spider web could have caused a short, in the same way that a stray strand of speaker wire might do? Or is that sheer idiocy and wishful thinking? I'm perfectly willing to accept the latter, but I'm hoping that it is the former, as this would mean that the unit was operating as intended (protecting against a short circuit), and does not have a manufacturing flaw. I guess time will tell. I'll report back again if I experience any further issues.


I had the same exact experience as you. I watched the video and expected to find a loose connecter in my 4000 too but found nothing. I reseated several connectors and it has been trouble free for 3 months now. Before it would trip off multiple times a day. I hope I haven't jinxed it now!
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post #12585 of 12598 Old 11-29-2016, 12:30 PM
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Got firmware update this afternoon for my x4000. Pandora log in.

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post #12586 of 12598 Old 11-30-2016, 12:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parekoy View Post
Got firmware update this afternoon for my x4000. Pandora log in.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk
+1

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post #12587 of 12598 Old 11-30-2016, 03:55 PM
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So as I got a message yesterday that the update was available for my AVR -X3000. I attempted to install it but I got the message "ConnectionFail01" the receiver rebooted said "Update Retry" then again said "ConnectionFail01"and stopped there. I did a factory restore but when it rebooted it immediately started installing the update again. I can kick it out of the updating process if I do a factory restore while the network cable is unplugged. Then if I plug the cable in and reboot the receiver it starts updating again. I don't think the update was ever actually installed because I still can't login to pandora
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post #12588 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 04:22 AM
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Is that update a US only update ?
Denon France still indicates that current update for the x4000 is 5630-9776-1611 (November 2015)
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post #12589 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 04:24 AM
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Is that update a US only update ?
Denon France still indicates that current update for the x4000 is 5630-9776-1611 (November 2015)
Information on the update provided in this thread is for the USA models specifically, although other regions may receive the update around the same time frame.
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post #12590 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 04:25 AM
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Originally Posted by Bray90820 View Post
So as I got a message yesterday that the update was available for my AVR -X3000. I attempted to install it but I got the message "ConnectionFail01" the receiver rebooted said "Update Retry" then again said "ConnectionFail01"and stopped there. I did a factory restore but when it rebooted it immediately started installing the update again. I can kick it out of the updating process if I do a factory restore while the network cable is unplugged. Then if I plug the cable in and reboot the receiver it starts updating again. I don't think the update was ever actually installed because I still can't login to pandora

There is a lot of very helpful information provided in the first 6 posts of this thread, to include how to do a "Network reset" in post 5.
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post #12591 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 08:16 AM
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I got the message "ConnectionFail01" the receiver rebooted said "Update Retry" then again said "ConnectionFail01"and stopped there.
My X4000 also showed me a "Connection Failed" message after offering the most recent update, but a few minutes later it worked OK. I assumed the "failure" was a server overload at Denon's end, not locally.

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post #12592 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 09:06 AM
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My X4000 also showed me a "Connection Failed" message after offering the most recent update, but a few minutes later it worked OK. I assumed the "failure" was a server overload at Denon's end, not locally.
Server guy likely had to take his finger off the switch for a coffee break.
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post #12593 of 12598 Old 12-01-2016, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
Information on the update provided in this thread is for the USA models specifically, although other regions may receive the update around the same time frame.


I received on-screen notice for the new firmware update yesterday here in the North Country. I didn't bother executing said update yet since it only mentions Pandora and we were getting ready to watch a program. X4000.


Curious if there are other fixes/improvements or is it just Pandora (which I don't even use)?

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post #12594 of 12598 Old Yesterday, 07:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Philm63 View Post
Can someone please tell me what the voltage is on the multi-channel pre-amp outputs of the AVR-X4000?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post
^^
AFAIK .. 1.2v.


Guys:


I'm baffled, and probably doing something wrong. I know the x4000 manual says the pre-out voltages are 1.2V max, but I'm getting between 4V and 5V (with a decent oscilloscope as well as with a good RMS volt meter).


This is on the Zone 2 pre-outs, which I'm currently running to Crown XLS1002 amps with good results. I'm trying to incorporate a miniDSP to provide some EQ adjustment. I took a few measurements first as a precaution as I need to select either 0.9V or 2V as my input sensitivity on the miniDSP. I'm also setting gains and identifying my clipping points on all my pieces of equipment (amps and AVR). The x4000 starts to clip at a volume level of 93 on the oscilloscope, so I'm playing -5dB test tones at a volume of 92 (with speakers disconnected of course) and I'm getting between 4V and 5V on the pre-outs (depending on the frequency being played).


If this is really what the x4000 puts out on the Zone 2 pre-outs, I can't use the miniDSP, the input sensitivities are not rated that high. However, I've actually been using the 0.775V input sensitivity on the Crown XLS amps as this is what they recommend for consumer grade AV equipment, and like I said I've had good results. The output from the Crown amps is not clipping - tested with scope - so this doesn't make sense. I would think if I was really sending 5V to a Crown amp with a 0.775V input sensitivity it would be clipping, no?


What am I doing wrong? I've read that most AVR's will put out more pre-out voltage than they are rated at, but not this much. Has anybody actually measured the voltages on their Zone 2 pre-outs at just before clipping with test tones?

Last edited by rpr; Yesterday at 07:18 PM.
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post #12595 of 12598 Old Yesterday, 09:16 PM
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What am I doing wrong? I've read that most AVR's will put out more pre-out voltage than they are rated at, but not this much. Has anybody actually measured the voltages on their Zone 2 pre-outs at just before clipping with test tones?
Nothing wrong. The output voltage must, of course, vary with the program material, the volume level, and the peaks in the music. 1.2 VRMS is a bit high since the usual reference level is (as you noted) about 0.7 VRMS. But 4V is really only 12dB more than 1V, and that has to be within the capability of the preamp or musical peaks would be unbearably clipped.

When I was designing and building preamps I usually got about 28V peak-to-peak (10VRMS) out at clipping level, and in actual service that was plenty.

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post #12596 of 12598 Old Today, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Signal to Noise View Post
I received on-screen notice for the new firmware update yesterday here in the North Country. I didn't bother executing said update yet since it only mentions Pandora and we were getting ready to watch a program. X4000.


Curious if there are other fixes/improvements or is it just Pandora (which I don't even use)?
On the 2015 and 2016 models it also included the DTS:X update as well as the DD/DTS cross mix update; however, on the 2013 models, AFAIK, just allows logging in to Pandora again.
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post #12597 of 12598 Old Today, 07:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan in St. Louis View Post
Nothing wrong. The output voltage must, of course, vary with the program material, the volume level, and the peaks in the music. 1.2 VRMS is a bit high since the usual reference level is (as you noted) about 0.7 VRMS. But 4V is really only 12dB more than 1V, and that has to be within the capability of the preamp or musical peaks would be unbearably clipped.

When I was designing and building preamps I usually got about 28V peak-to-peak (10VRMS) out at clipping level, and in actual service that was plenty.
Thanks for the reply, the issue is that I am feeding the Denon's RCA pre-out to a DSP, not an amp. I could be wrong but it sounds like matching the input sensitivities on DSP's is more critical than it is on amps. The DSP's literature states that it's "input sensitivity must never be exceeded or damage to the equipment will occur".

The highest input sensitivity I can set on the DSP is 2V, but the Denon's RCA pre-out for Zone 2 is putting out more than twice that at the highest volume I plan to use.

The miniDSP does have a software control for "input level gain control". So perhaps I can safely feed the DSP twice it's rated voltage if I attenuate the signal using its software "gain" control which Inthink can attenuate the incoming signal?

What do you guys think?
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post #12598 of 12598 Old Today, 08:29 AM
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The highest input sensitivity I can set on the DSP is 2V, but the Denon's RCA pre-out for Zone 2 is putting out more than twice that at the highest volume I plan to use.
The question becomes whether the DSP will clip on actual program material. It is not the Denon's volume control setting that matters, but rather the actual peak output from programs. If that peak does not clip the DSP you have no problems.

I can only imagine that the DSP's input voltage warning is to avoid connecting power amplifier outputs to the DSP--I can't imagine it being damaged by 4V.

Reducing the individual source levels won't help because you would then have to increase the volume control to reach the same sound level.

Are there also volume controls AFTER the DSP? You could turn down the master volume on the Denon, and increase the gain later in that signal chain.

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