The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 43 - AVS Forum
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post #1261 of 9894 Old 07-15-2013, 04:35 PM
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Originally Posted by scientifix View Post

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Originally Posted by scientifix View Post

Thanks! I have a decent setup. I have Boston Acoustics floor standing plus a center channel. Axiom audio for rear surrounds. And an HSU subwoofer. All of them, 8 or 9 years old. I will so a bit more research on the x4000. And also will call AVS sales to check out the price.
BTW, sometime back last year I had bought the Denon 1912 and had it for a week (I ended up returning because the HDMI port on my old tv stopped working). The 1912 felt like a big improvement in the audio quality compared to my old 2803. So compared to that 1912 the X2000 itself should be an improvement because of the "XT" right? And one of the reasons I was considering X3000 was the instapreview feature. So without the instapreview how is the switching inputs in X2000 - the inputs can be labelled and with the OSD it shouldn't be a big deal right? - You can tell I'm trying to "justify" going with X2000 smile.gif


Don't get the x2000 with only XT. You are going to kick yourself I promise! The subwoofer is where a good chunk of problems are. Keeping that in mind, see the chart located here http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq.

Notice how upgrading to anything other than XT32 gives you ZERO change in subwoofer correction? Just get the x4000 and thank me later biggrin.gif

Ok, I know I'm a bit opinionated, but knowing what I know now with XT32, I kick myself for every buying a MULTIEQ only receiver the first time.
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post #1262 of 9894 Old 07-15-2013, 11:45 PM
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Just got my Denon E-300 setup and trying to mess with this Audessy thing following the instructions to the best I know how here is what it came up with, this doesn't seem right?

I have 4 speakers in my ceiling in a square configuration with a Polk center speaker below my TV and then a Polk subwoofer.

Here are photoshots of what the configuration came up with and would like your thoughts and help if at all possible.

photo(14).jpg 477k .jpg file
photo(15).jpg 483k .jpg file
photo(16).jpg 484k .jpg file
photo(17).jpg 470k .jpg file

If more or different photoshots are needed I am more then happy to provide those. I appreciate this forum very much and all the help it provides!
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post #1263 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 06:45 AM
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Originally Posted by rpd709 View Post

Just got my Denon E-300 setup and trying to mess with this Audessy thing following the instructions to the best I know how here is what it came up with, this doesn't seem right?

I have 4 speakers in my ceiling in a square configuration with a Polk center speaker below my TV and then a Polk subwoofer.

Here are photoshots of what the configuration came up with and would like your thoughts and help if at all possible.

photo(14).jpg 477k .jpg file
photo(15).jpg 483k .jpg file
photo(16).jpg 484k .jpg file
photo(17).jpg 470k .jpg file

If more or different photoshots are needed I am more then happy to provide those. I appreciate this forum very much and all the help it provides!

I see nothing odd about anything on those screens except the subwoofer level at -12. This is the max amount Audyssey can turn the sub down, so you need to lower the level on the sub itself. Ideally the sub would be at 0 db, but as long as it's not -12, you are fine. I would also set my center channel crossover at 80 Hz. You can turn crossovers up after Audyssey sets them, but never down. The crossovers on your mains and surrounds are high implying those speakers are probably satellites without a full frequency response.

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post #1264 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 07:42 AM
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Here's some thoughts on the X4000 after a couple weeks of use. A lot of it reiterates my initial impressions. My speaker setup is 9.1 with wides and backs. I have a B+K ST1400s2 powering the mains.

I'll say right here in the beginning that I love the sound I'm getting. Very clear detailed sound.

Yesterday I set up my X4000 from scratch and it was really easy having done it before. I did a some stereo music listening before running Audessey just to see how much difference there is. Night and day really. I admit I did not spend a lot of time setting things up to try and tune things without Audessey. I did do the bass management though.


I really like listening to music and movies and like new toys. I took time placing my speakers and sub to get the sound I like but I don't let myself get so far into the HT craziness to start doing acoustic room measurements. Nothing wrong with it but I don't want to become more obsessed and start finding problems that I'm happy not knowing. So I'm a big fan of Audessey. I used XT on the 3808 and now XT32. It is great stuff. The XT32 is a definite improvement over XT (assuming they are implemented the same.) The bass integration from the mains to the sub is fantastic now and has settled down my "need" for a 2nd sub. I know I'll end up with one some day but there is no rush. Just make sure to read the guides on the forum before running the auto-setup. I hate reading reviews by people that should know better that don't measure properly and don't like the results. The X4000's setup wizard does show proper mic placements which is nice.


I am new to wides with this AVR and my first impressions were negative. I couldn't figure out what the big deal was. But I kept moving the speakers and re-running XT32 and finally got it right. Now I am loving the wides for movies and TV. For music... well it took me a long time to get used to matrixed 5.1 music so I think this will be the same way. There are definite differences between DSX and NeoX. For music it is really a preference thing. They both sound good and my comparisons are with default settings. I think that NeoX has a stronger front soundstage and DSX has better "you're in the music" feel. And just listening in 2.1 sounds awesome. For movies I really prefer DSX. There was one scene in Band of Brothers where the guys are walking through a large spacious building and with DSX it sounded horrible. It sounded like they where in a cavern not a large hallway or maybe just a bad reverb added. I was watching with my wife so I didn't stop and mess with settings but went back to the scene when I was alone because I just couldn't believe that the source was that bad. The source was fine in 5.1 so I tried NeoX and that sounded good too. That is the only problem scene that I noticed with DSX everything else was fine. So for movies I'll stick with NeoX.


My wife and I use z2+3 all day almost every day for music, podcasts and news on the radio. The one thing that is still driving me crazy has to do with using zone 2. My z2 and z3 are set up for audio only using the pre-outs. I only have one TV and don't need HDMI anywhere but the TV room. If I am using the main zone and turn on or off z2 the main zone cuts out for a few seconds. This does not happen with z3. This happens with any source including the tuner. As far as I can tell I have all z2 HDMI options turned off. I know that the X4000 will turn on main zone and switch it to the network sources if those are selected from z2-3 but is this supposed to happen when z2 is power cycled? I really hope we get a fw update to deal with this nonsense. I love the receiver and it's flexibility but this seems like they just didn't think the zones through.

The integrated network features are nice and very convenient but the implementation was bad. Same with the remote app. They should get a new app designer to redesign it. There are minor annoyances like when you select HD Radio it brings you to the tuner screen every time. I only listen to one station and have to wait for the tuner page to load before I can hit the back button. Using Pandora or Spotify is a great feature but the navigation is not intuitive. The web interface is good for settings (using the keyboard to re-name zones and inputs is a plus) but not for day to day control.

So if you are on the fence about X4000 I say go for it. The annoyances aren't so bad that they outweigh the positives. And if you only use the main zone there should be nothing holding you back.
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post #1265 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 08:05 AM
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Originally Posted by mo949 View Post

Don't get the x2000 with only XT. You are going to kick yourself I promise! The subwoofer is where a good chunk of problems are. Keeping that in mind, see the chart located here http://www.audyssey.com/audio-technology/multeq.

Notice how upgrading to anything other than XT32 gives you ZERO change in subwoofer correction? Just get the x4000 and thank me later biggrin.gif

Ok, I know I'm a bit opinionated, but knowing what I know now with XT32, I kick myself for every buying a MULTIEQ only receiver the first time.
Shucks, that's a strong statement! And you know why I say "shucks" ... smile.gif
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post #1266 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 10:13 AM
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^ sorry to be the bad guy, it had to be done cool.gif
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post #1267 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 11:00 AM
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I see nothing odd about anything on those screens except the subwoofer level at -12. This is the max amount Audyssey can turn the sub down, so you need to lower the level on the sub itself. Ideally the sub would be at 0 db, but as long as it's not -12, you are fine. I would also set my center channel crossover at 80 Hz. You can turn crossovers up after Audyssey sets them, but never down. The crossovers on your mains and surrounds are high implying those speakers are probably satellites without a full frequency response.

Will continue to work on the subwoofer level. Here is a picture of my speakers in the ceiling. Not sure if you would call them satellites?
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post #1268 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 11:33 AM
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Redid the test and got the following settings. I adjusted the center up as you suggested. Seems like the punch just isnt there. I mean, I want to be able to feel the sound on an action movie etc.




Let me know if further is needed.
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post #1269 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 11:51 AM - Thread Starter
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Those settings look fine. From the distance measurements it appears you are much closer to your surrounds than to your front speakers? Do you have a room layout with the TV on one end and the couch all the way at the other end? I know it's not always possible with a living room setup, but if you could somehow get the couch closer to the front that might improve the overall surround experience.

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Seems like the punch just isnt there. I mean, I want to be able to feel the sound on an action movie etc.

OK, a few questions:

1. Obvious question, but did you turn it up? What volume levels are you using when you say you aren't feeling it?

2. Is Dynamic Volume enabled? After Audyssey it asks you if you want it turned on, and if you said "Yes" it will be enabled for all inputs. Dyn Vol compresses the dynamics to keep volume more constant, but it will definitely limit the full ass-kicking effects of a big action movie soundtrack. Try turning it off (leave Dynamic EQ on though) and cranking the volume.

3. Maybe describe more about the lack of "feel"? It's possible that the subwoofer is undersized for your room. What model Polk is it and what are the room dimensions?

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post #1270 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 11:55 AM
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Try raising the LPF for LFE from 100Hz to 120Hz.

The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is where action movie sound tracks provide much of their "punch". The LFE channel is defined to be able to contain frequencies up to 120Hz. By reducing the LFE's Low Pass Filter to 100 Hz, you've removed some of its higher frequencies. Some people have reported much more entertaining audio from action movies when the higher frequencies are there.

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post #1271 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 12:20 PM
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OK, a few questions:

1. Obvious question, but did you turn it up? What volume levels are you using when you say you aren't feeling it?

Yes, I turned it up and it just seems dull. I had to turn the volume down on the subwoofer to get the audio level between -3 to +3db the volume setting on the subwoofer is at 8:00 position. It just seems dull. My other receiver was a Onkyo RC-230 basic model and I did the measurements but had the settings turned up high. I guess I'm trying to do it right this time and just not getting the "WOW Factor" I thought I would.

2. Is Dynamic Volume enabled? After Audyssey it asks you if you want it turned on, and if you said "Yes" it will be enabled for all inputs. Dyn Vol compresses the dynamics to keep volume more constant, but it will definitely limit the full ass-kicking effects of a big action movie soundtrack. Try turning it off (leave Dynamic EQ on though) and cranking the volume.

It was enabled but I now disabled it and turned it off while leaving Dynamic EQ on.

3. Maybe describe more about the lack of "feel"? It's possible that the subwoofer is undersized for your room. What model Polk is it and what are the room dimensions?

Polk PSW505 is the subwoofer that I have. The "feel" feels dull, no WOW Movie Theater type sound. Yes, I know the previous receiver was probably not set correctly but atleast with that when there was a scene with bass it boomed!

Yes, this is in the living room and the couch is against one wall directly above the back surround speakers and the TV along with the other 2 front speakers are above the television, Living room dimensions are 18x16.

Thank you very much for all this help.
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post #1272 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 12:23 PM
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Try raising the LPF for LFE from 100Hz to 120Hz.

The Low Frequency Effects (LFE) channel is where action movie sound tracks provide much of their "punch". The LFE channel is defined to be able to contain frequencies up to 120Hz. By reducing the LFE's Low Pass Filter to 100 Hz, you've removed some of its higher frequencies. Some people have reported much more entertaining audio from action movies when the higher frequencies are there.

Raised it from 100 to 120. Seems to have helped alittle. But still no punch at current settings like I want.
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post #1273 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 12:33 PM
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OK, a few questions:

1. Obvious question, but did you turn it up? What volume levels are you using when you say you aren't feeling it?
''

I am currently watching a movie and have the volume at 64.5 and while the movie sounds decent there just isn't any punch factor I don't think.

smile.gif I know with you guys help I will get this figured out lol
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post #1274 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 12:37 PM
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Current setting to get the -3 to +3 range.. Might as well say its turned off based on volume range.
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post #1275 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:14 PM
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you might like it really boomy and you may already be used to a 'peak' in your subs response that feels 'right' to you. Employing Audyssey to tame that tweak would be counterproductive to your goal, but I suspect you like Audyssey for the other good things it does for your sound. Which would make the question be: Can you disable audyssey EQ of your sub, while still letting it EQ your system?
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post #1276 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:14 PM
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I went ahead and turned the subwoofer upto 50% on the volume the bass is there now but doesn't make sense how when doing the Audessy setup that the volume has to be almost non existent then to turn it right back up after the measurements to get the bass?

IDK, but it sounds like to me my basic HT-RC230 Onkyo kicks this Denon's butt! Maybe I just don't have it setup correctly ( which is why I'm here ) hasn't impressed me so far.
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post #1277 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:15 PM
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I disabled Dynamic Volume and currently running it at 66 on the volume scale, it doesn't appear I can do anything in regards to the EQ without disabling Audessy.
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post #1278 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:17 PM
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RPD709, on your onkyo were you using the Double Bass function?
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post #1279 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:20 PM
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Yes I was Mo.

It just felt like the movie theater feel and I like that.

I ran the Audessy setup with the volume barely up on the subwoofer then went into the manual settings and went to 3.0DB and turned the volume up on the subwoofer to 50% scale and there is bass now.

IDK maybe its correct I'm just set in my ways.
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post #1280 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:24 PM
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That could be it then. I don't have all of it figured out, but if you want similar sound you probably need to get the 'double bass' option working again essentially. I believe there is a way to do it in the dennon menusand setup to get your subwoofer fed those signals the same as when you did it on the onkyo....at the very least you can even double wire your sub.

I'll stop there though, since i'm already tip toeing into an area I am not very familiar with.
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post #1281 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:30 PM
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I welcome all thoughts Mo. I appreciate it.
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post #1282 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:34 PM
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Originally Posted by rpd709 View Post

Yes I was Mo.

It just felt like the movie theater feel and I like that.

I ran the Audessy setup with the volume barely up on the subwoofer then went into the manual settings and went to 3.0DB and turned the volume up on the subwoofer to 50% scale and there is bass now.

IDK maybe its correct I'm just set in my ways.

To plus the SW use the Denon menu only, easier to restore that way,

For double bass, select LFE+Main under Bass Setting. This will play Bass in all speakers set to Large & the SW, subject to crossover settings.

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post #1283 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:35 PM
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Auddessy set my speakers to small however reading the onkyo book it suggested based on speaker size to set them to Large.

Ugh this is so confusing!
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post #1284 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 01:39 PM
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Auddessy set my speakers to small however reading the onkyo book it suggested based on speaker size to set them to Large.

Ugh this is so confusing!

Suggest you read the Audyssey FAQ. Then try the settings as suggested a week, or so, then try them tweaked, see what you like best.

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post #1285 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 03:40 PM
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Is there any advantage of Audyssey XT32 in a stereo system with no sub?

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post #1286 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 03:59 PM
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Originally Posted by rpd709 View Post

Auddessy set my speakers to small however reading the onkyo book it suggested based on speaker size to set them to Large.

Ugh this is so confusing!

yes, if you set them to large and do the LFE+Main, that should equal the 'double bass' feature.

BTW you used to have no sub EQ with 2EQ and now with MultiEQ you get some rudimentary sub EQ'ing. I'd try to deal with the new way and see if you don't like the 'seamlessness' of the sound. You can also just run the sub channel a few decibels higher and that might make it all click.

hope you get it all sorted.
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post #1287 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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Originally Posted by tknx View Post

Is there any advantage of Audyssey XT32 in a stereo system with no sub?

i'll give you my opinion. Audyssey makes most sense for surround sound. I think the returns you get from audyssey with respect to stereo music diminish significantly between the audyssey flavors just based on the fact that most of the dramatic improvements between the low end flavors of Audyssey and Xt32 are in the subs and surrounds.

For exlusive stereo use, I'd probably look elsewhere or find a more customizable option since 2 channels aught to be a lot simpler to deal with.
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post #1288 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 04:02 PM
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Is there any advantage of Audyssey XT32 in a stereo system with no sub?

Compared to XT, XT32 bumps up satellite filter resolution more than the subwoofer filter resolution, so yes, the advantage is even larger in a system without a sub.
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post #1289 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 05:28 PM - Thread Starter
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think the returns you get from audyssey with respect to stereo music diminish significantly between the audyssey flavors just based on the fact that most of the dramatic improvements between the low end flavors of Audyssey and Xt32 are in the subs and surrounds.

That is not correct. The changes in the sub filter resolution are fairly minor -- regular MultEQ and XT have the same 128x sub filter resolution, and XT32 quadruples that to 512x.

But the other satellite speaker channels see a HUGE increase in resolution, from 2x in basic MultEQ, eight times greater (16x) in XT, and then 32 times greater in XT32 (up to 512x, thus the name "XT32").

So, in theory, you would actually see even MORE benefit going from a lower "flavor" to XT32 if you DON'T have a subwoofer, because XT32 has vastly greater processing resources to correcting the bass that DOESN'T go to the subwoofer channel.

Now, there is the broader question of whether you need auto room EQ for a basic 2.0 stereo system; if you have a room with good acoustics, are able to properly place speakers, and can also add room treatments and/or use measuring gear to optimize, the gains from auto EQ diminish. But the same is true for a multich system, it's just harder to optimize 5+ speakers than 2. But from a technical level in terms of comparing Audyssey flavors, the biggest gains are actually NOT in the subwoofer channel.

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post #1290 of 9894 Old 07-16-2013, 05:33 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by rpd709 View Post

Yes I was Mo.

It just felt like the movie theater feel and I like that.

I ran the Audessy setup with the volume barely up on the subwoofer then went into the manual settings and went to 3.0DB and turned the volume up on the subwoofer to 50% scale and there is bass now.

IDK maybe its correct I'm just set in my ways.

It sounds to me like you simply like "hot" bass. Audyssey calibrates your system so the subwoofer is putting out the same calibrated volume as your other speakers. That's fine, as it starts you off from a given "reference" point. Additionally, as others have noted, the EQ part of it is correcting/flattening the bass to remove "boomy" room modes, which you probably also liked because you thought you "felt" it more. Now, if you want more bass than the "calibrated" setting, you can simply bump it up to taste. You don't have to keep it where it was calibrated, but the point is that it gives you a baseline "reference" from which to start tweaking.

Whatever you do, keep your speakers set to SMALL. They have been measured to not produce much bass, so you shouldn't try and send them bass that they can't handle.

Best practice is to turn up the subwoofer volume from the receiver, and not touch the knobs on the subwoofer after calibration. Since you want to goose the bass "hot", what you should do is turn up the subwoofer gain a bit, so you come up with a large negative calibrated value (e.g. -6 or -8, doesn't really matter). That will give you a lot of room for "upward adjustment" in the receiver, and then you can bump the level up to taste.
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