The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 46 - AVS Forum
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post #1351 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 01:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kisakuku View Post

So European > US > Asian models for Denon? Interesting.

Actually it's more like USA vs. non-USA as the European and Asian models are generally the same (except possibly Tuner differences) which is the case for the X1000. The most notable difference being on the European/Asian 231X series (to include the new X3000) which have a full set of 7.2 main zone pre-outs vs. the USA models which only have the 7.2 pre-outs on the 331XCI series (to include the X4000).

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post #1352 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 02:08 AM
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I finally got around to visiting a Best Buy/Magnolia store with the X-models on demo to check for heat being released from the tops of the units. All were barely luke warm to the touch. smile.gif

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post #1353 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 08:12 AM
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Has anyone measured the audio processing delay on these new x2000 and x4000 receivers (also called audio lag or audio latency (easier to search).

I did a quick test with my Denon 2809 over HDMI with Audyssey Flat and Dynamic EQ enabled versus an old analog PC speaker and both had the same delay of 8ms. This was done with a 240fps camera where each frame is ca 4ms, so I guess my PC is not entirely in sync or my measurements that accurate but 8ms is a very small deviation.

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post #1354 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 09:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

It's not likely going to matter either way ... you can review post #6 to see the firmware change log information.

I didn't think so, thanks jd.
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post #1355 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cyberbrad View Post

I bounce around on drivers a bit. Currenty on 11.8 but was using the latest 13 release and it works the same as far as audio. You just running HDMI from your PC to receiver or other cables too?

Yep, just HDMI to the receiver.
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post #1356 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

I finally got around to visiting a Best Buy/Magnolia store with the X-models on demo to check for heat being released from the tops of the units. All were barely luke warm to the touch. smile.gif
Today visited a Magnolia Design center. The x2000 is just somewhat warm over the power supply, the x3000 is warmer still over the power supply, and the x4000 was not hot to touch, but was significantly warm over the center of the top cover above the power supplies. Room was about 75. All the rack receivers were in idle mode.

This is with limited air circulation on the back since its a wall of receivers they have set up. The x2000, X3000, X4000 had about 2 1/2 " clearance above top cover for air to circulate. Would guess the room was about 75. smile.gif

The AVR-4520 they had in the same wall display, runs cooler then the x4000 in idle yet they barely left it with 1 1/2" clearance for air to circulate which I think is nuts. rolleyes.gif

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post #1357 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 03:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by gmc90 View Post

Can I use Quick Select to put my E400 into All Zone Stereo mode on a particular source? I can't see how but I'm just getting this thing set up.

I searched this thread but didn't find anything.

Although the All Zone Stereo is a new setting, the Quick Select should be able to remember the surround mode ... so then yes.


I don't know for sure but I would actually guess the answer is no. All Zone Stereo isn't really a "surround mode" per se, it's a special mode that requires you to first power on the other zone and then specifically select that state. I could be wrong but I don't think a quick select will memorize that across two zones.
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post #1358 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 03:55 PM
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If I had an Apple TV and controlled music via my iPhone, would I be able to stream separate things via the atv and the x4000's AirPlay in different zones?
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post #1359 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 05:48 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes, as long as you had two different iTunes controllers from which to stream. Each iTunes source (pc, iDevice) will see both the X4000 and the Apple TV available as separate airplay speakers.

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post #1360 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 06:47 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

Yes, as long as you had two different iTunes controllers from which to stream. Each iTunes source (pc, iDevice) will see both the X4000 and the Apple TV available as separate airplay speakers.
Just got mine set up with a "quick and dirty: audyssey and renamed all inputs to what i needed them to be. Love the android app for controlling it as well. Most things were pretty intuitive (I have owned quite a few denons) and I LOVE the instaview (or whatever it is called). Remote is very very sparse on buttons for most things I want, but luckily I have a complete set of IR commands for the 4311 in my harmony data base to call upon.. More tinkering tonight!
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post #1361 of 8366 Old 07-21-2013, 09:42 PM
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Hello all - I have been reading along for quite some time now, but this is my first post (hopefully the first of many!). A special thank you to batpig and jdsmoothie, your expertise has been especially helpful.

Well I'm sorry to say that my NAD T-747 has taken a crap on me as the HDMI inputs are no longer working and alas it is time to jump ship and try another brand. There were tears because I came to love that oh so sweet NAD sound that made music come to life, but I think I will retire her to the basement where perhaps I will put together a 2 channel set up.

In my research I was looking for a reliable AV receiver (oxymoronic?) that was suitable for music as much as it was for movies (I am about 60/40 on music/movies) and have a 7.1 set up with Rega RS3's for my L/R channels. I have pretty much decided that the X4000 is the girl for me, but have a hint of reservation about the marriage to the Rega's (6 ohms). The NAD was a great match to the Rega's, but am also excited to finally give the "Denon Sound" a go. Anybody care to give me the final nudge? confused.gif

jdsmoothieb- Do I need to touch base with you before calling your buddy Craig over at AVScience?
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post #1362 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincythedog View Post

Hello all - I have been reading along for quite some time now, but this is my first post (hopefully the first of many!). A special thank you to batpig and jdsmoothie, your expertise has been especially helpful.

Well I'm sorry to say that my NAD T-747 has taken a crap on me as the HDMI inputs are no longer working and alas it is time to jump ship and try another brand. There were tears because I came to love that oh so sweet NAD sound that made music come to life, but I think I will retire her to the basement where perhaps I will put together a 2 channel set up.

In my research I was looking for a reliable AV receiver (oxymoronic?) that was suitable for music as much as it was for movies (I am about 60/40 on music/movies) and have a 7.1 set up with Rega RS3's for my L/R channels. I have pretty much decided that the X4000 is the girl for me, but have a hint of reservation about the marriage to the Rega's (6 ohms). The NAD was a great match to the Rega's, but am also excited to finally give the "Denon Sound" a go. Anybody care to give me the final nudge? confused.gif

jdsmoothieb- Do I need to touch base with you before calling your buddy Craig over at AVScience?

Should be fine. I drive a pair of supercharged salk songtowers with a 3311ci, basically the same amp stage.
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post #1363 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:29 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quincythedog View Post

Hello all - I have been reading along for quite some time now, but this is my first post (hopefully the first of many!). A special thank you to batpig and jdsmoothie, your expertise has been especially helpful.

Well I'm sorry to say that my NAD T-747 has taken a crap on me as the HDMI inputs are no longer working and alas it is time to jump ship and try another brand. There were tears because I came to love that oh so sweet NAD sound that made music come to life, but I think I will retire her to the basement where perhaps I will put together a 2 channel set up.

In my research I was looking for a reliable AV receiver (oxymoronic?) that was suitable for music as much as it was for movies (I am about 60/40 on music/movies) and have a 7.1 set up with Rega RS3's for my L/R channels. I have pretty much decided that the X4000 is the girl for me, but have a hint of reservation about the marriage to the Rega's (6 ohms). The NAD was a great match to the Rega's, but am also excited to finally give the "Denon Sound" a go. Anybody care to give me the final nudge? confused.gif

jdsmoothieb- Do I need to touch base with you before calling your buddy Craig over at AVScience?

The Denon E/X AVRs are designed to work with 6-16ohm speakers, so no issues. Also just give Craig a call directly, although keep in mind he's on the west coast.


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post #1364 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 03:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In addition to no Zone 2 pre-outs or Coax input on the Asian model, there's also one less HDMI input and no IR input as compared to the USA model pictured below.

I almost imported one from one of several US companies that advertise on eBay. It would have been cheaper and now almost wish I had. Warranty was the only thing holding me back.

The second zone issue is fairly major I think, I hadn't noticed the missing HDMI port. All in all I think it's a pretty poor move, even if it doesn't really affect me adversely for now anyway.

It's actually worked out in my favour though, the second optical input is far more valuable to me in my setup. And it's a nice receiver that I'm very happy with.
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post #1365 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 04:18 AM
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I still don't really understand why I am having to increase volume levels on my x4000 so much more than my 2212. I watched a movie last night and had to turn it up to -5 to get it as loud as my 2212 would be at -30. What are you other x4000 owners typically watching TV and movies at?
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post #1366 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 05:09 AM
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cyberbrad,

Have you run Audyssey's calibration and is it enabled?
If so, I'd suspect a problem with the microphone.

After calibration, many people seem to prefer movie volume level settings between -30dB and -20dB for receivers equipped with Audyssey. CDs typically need a setting 10dB lower. TV varies depending on the station and provider.


Edited to add:
You might try turning off Dynamic Volume and Dynamic Eq to see if that helps.

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post #1367 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 05:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberbrad View Post

I still don't really understand why I am having to increase volume levels on my x4000 so much more than my 2212. I watched a movie last night and had to turn it up to -5 to get it as loud as my 2212 would be at -30. What are you other x4000 owners typically watching TV and movies at?

I watched The Hobbit last night, had some friends over and had the volume at -12.5, and that was quite loud for my room with my Polk RTiA9/7/3/CSiA6/DSW660 setup. I am not noticing any difference in volume setting on the X-4000 vs my old AVR-989.


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post #1368 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 10:44 AM
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I have a smorgasbord of different speakers going on. My LR are monitor audio rx8 (4ohm), hsu HB-1s for surrounds (6ohm) and JBL Center (til i can use my MA center, but need a bigger entertainment center first) and rears that are 8 ohm. Currently use a Sony 4400es on 8ohm mode with, seemingly, no problems. Would the x4000 be ok with this? If not, what if an external amp were added, does that solve the issue?
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post #1369 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 01:57 PM
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This question is for batpig. I just setup my x4000 and I was wondering how to modify the settings for 2ch stereo. Previously when I was using my 1912, I was able to bi-amp the mains and then have specific settings for stereo mode (where I could have different crossovers & change my sub settings if i wanted 2.1) Now that I have bi-amped my mains on my 4000, I can't see where I can modify my 2ch Stereo settings. Got any insight?
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post #1370 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 01:57 PM
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This question is for batpig. I just setup my x4000 and I was wondering how to modify the settings for 2ch stereo. Previously when I was using my 1912, I was able to bi-amp the mains and then have specific settings for stereo mode (where I could have different crossovers & change my sub settings if i wanted 2.1) Now that I have bi-amped my mains on my 4000, I can't see where I can modify my 2ch Stereo settings. Got any insight?
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post #1371 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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This setting is called "2CH PLAYBACK" and is found in the manual speaker setup menu....

.... HOWEVER, starting with the 4520, Denon has modified this setting to be available ONLY if you are running a SEPARATE pair of "B" speakers dedicated for 2ch use. If you just have one pair of front speakers, you can no longer have a custom 2ch config with independent bass management settings. So basically you have to pick a crossover for your front speakers for all playback modes.

You CAN have different speaker volume levels though, since channel levels are memorized by surround mode "family". So if you want to raise/lower the sub volume for STEREO playback it will remember that level separately from multich modes.

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post #1372 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

I have a smorgasbord of different speakers going on. My LR are monitor audio rx8 (4ohm), hsu HB-1s for surrounds (6ohm) and JBL Center (til i can use my MA center, but need a bigger entertainment center first) and rears that are 8 ohm. Currently use a Sony 4400es on 8ohm mode with, seemingly, no problems. Would the x4000 be ok with this? If not, what if an external amp were added, does that solve the issue?

At average volume levels, the X4000 shouldn't have any issue with your mix of speakers, however, if you prefer closer to reference level (ie. 0db) volume levels, if it should shut down, then you would want to consider an external amp (eg. EMO XPA-2).

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post #1373 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:36 PM
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Batpig,

So basically, whatever my main 5.1 setup is (crossovers, amp assign, etc) those settings are used for stereo listening as well so my sub would still be active (which is basically what I had setup on my 1912). Now if I do pure direct, then all base mgt is bypassed and my speakers would be set to run full range without a sub regardless of what I have setup in the speaker config/amp assign, correct?
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post #1374 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 02:37 PM
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Wonder why they changed the ability to have separate 2ch settings on these
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post #1375 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 05:44 PM
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Pretty much sold on the X4000 and going through the manual to learn more. but, regarding zone 2 and 3 I think the more I read the manual the more confused I get, lol. Can someone clarify the following for me:

Page 134 of the X4000 USA manual states:

“You can operate this unit to enjoy video and audio in a room (ZONE2 and ZONE3) that is different from the room where this unit is placed (MAIN ZONE).
You can simultaneously play back the same source in both the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2 and ZONE3. You can also play back separate sources in the MAIN
ZONE, ZONE2 and ZONE3.

Connecting ZONE
You can use the following three methods to play back video and audio in
ZONE2 and ZONE3.
1. Connection through the HDMI ZONE2 connector (page 134)
2. Connection through the video output connector and speaker output connector (page 135)
3. Connection through the video output connector and external amp (page 138)

Connection 1 : Connection through the HDMI ZONE2 connector
When a TV is connected to the HDMI ZONE2 OUT connector, you can play back a video or audio from the device connected to the HDMI 1 – 6 IN connector in ZONE2 (HDMI ZONE2 function).”

I interpreted the above and the sentence “You can simultaneously play back the same source in both the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2 and ZONE3. You can also play back separate sources in the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2 and ZONE3” to mean three different rooms: (1) the main room, (2) the zone 2 room, and (3) the zone 3 room. But when I look at the back of the X4000 I only see a zone 2 and don’t see a zone 3. And the monitor out can’t be zone 3 because then the sentence “You can also play back separate sources in the MAIN ZONE, ZONE2 and ZONE3” would be incorrect.

I know I’m missing something obvious. The reason I want to understand this is because I want to know if I can have the family room be my main, have my bedroom be my zone 2 and have the lanai be my zone 3 for purposes of watching TV with audio from the TV.
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post #1376 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

At average volume levels, the X4000 shouldn't have any issue with your mix of speakers, however, if you prefer closer to reference level (ie. 0db) volume levels, if it should shut down, then you would want to consider an external amp (eg. EMO XPA-2).
Thanks jd! Movies are usually around -15, 2ch music may go a little higher wink.gif
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post #1377 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 07:03 PM
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lawtyger,

The main zone and zone 2 can do distinct audio & video, but zone 3 can only do separate audio. Now, you can mirror the video from the main zone, and put that in your lanai. The description on the first page of this post does a pretty good job of describing this.

Key upgrades over the X3000:

* 7 channels of amplification rated at 125 watts/ch into 8 ohms
* Beefier power supply and about 4.5 lbs heavier than the X3000
* Brushed aluminum faceplate with drop-down door to hide front panel controls
* Audyssey MultEQ XT32 with SubEQ HT
* Audyssey LFC (low frequency containment) technology
* Adds the ability to run up to 9 channels simultaneously with the addition of an external amp
* Increased connectivity:
-- Adds a 3rd HDMI output, parallel for main zone (e.g. for connecting both a projector and a regular TV in the same room)
-- Adds a component video output (2 inputs / 1 output); output can be reassigned to Zone 2
-- Adds a composite video output (1 video, 2 analog RCA audio)
-- Speaker binding posts for all 11 possible channels (can connect 11 speakers, but only run 7 at once with internal amps)
-- Full pre-amplifier outputs for all 11.2 channels (can run up to 9 at once with at least 2 channels external amp)
-- DenonLink HD input for connection with compatible Denon universal players
-- Dedicated PHONO input with pre-amp stage built in
-- Dual 12v trigger outputs
* 3 Zones instead of 2
-- 3rd zone is stereo audio only (either with external amp or internal amp assignment)
-- 2nd zone can be HDMI output and/or stereo audio output
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post #1378 of 8366 Old 07-22-2013, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by nevets72 View Post

lawtyger,

The main zone and zone 2 can do distinct audio & video, but zone 3 can only do separate audio. Now, you can mirror the video from the main zone, and put that in your lanai. The description on the first page of this post does a pretty good job of describing this.

Thanks for the clarification. OK it sounds like my master bedroom could be zone 2 with the same or a different source as the main room (which would be good) and my lanai could mirror my main room (and I thought from an earlier discussion the lanai would also have audio from the lanai TV speakers when mirrored through HDMI). So zone 3 really isn't a factor in what I am trying to accomplish. Does that sound about right?
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post #1379 of 8366 Old 07-23-2013, 01:33 AM
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In order to pass audio out either/both of the main zone HDMI Monitor OUT jacks, you would have to change the HDMI Audio Out setting to "TV"; however, in doing so you would then silence the audio to the surround sound speakers.

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post #1380 of 8366 Old 07-23-2013, 05:01 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lawtyger View Post

Thanks for the clarification. OK it sounds like my master bedroom could be zone 2 with the same or a different source as the main room (which would be good) and my lanai could mirror my main room (and I thought from an earlier discussion the lanai would also have audio from the lanai TV speakers when mirrored through HDMI). So zone 3 really isn't a factor in what I am trying to accomplish. Does that sound about right?
Lanai? Did you move into the Golden Girls house? biggrin.gif
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