The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 55 - AVS Forum
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post #1621 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 08:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you don't have one on hand, I'd call Monoprice and get them to replace the Redmere cable as it should work without adding an extender.

Good idea, but isn't the cable working as expected if the PJ displays a picture when hooked directly to the source (Oppo BDP-103) vs through the AVR X-4000?

It would appear the issue is that the Denon is not putting out a strong enough signal for the cable to work, whereas the Oppo is.

Or, should the cable just work regardless of source (Oppo vs. Denon AVR?)

I picked up a $20 HDMI extender from RS last night (didn't want to wait for MonoPrice to deliver one)..will try that tonight to see if it helps. Am also thinking HDBASE-T or two shorter HDMI cables with a HDMI extender between them as a workaround.

Fortunately, the Oppo has HDMI IN and split A/V between two HDMI ports. So, I can run the PJ directly to the Oppo (Redmere cable works) and the 2nd HDMI cable into the Denon X-4000. Then feed a second set of devices via a HDMI switch into the Oppo. That's not a "great" solution, though, since switching input sources on the Oppo requires navigating up and down a list of possible sources - far as I know, you can't push "INPUT 1" for input 1, etc. So, WAF through the Harmony remote is likely to be pretty low with that approach, and I'd really prefer the $1,200 Denon AVR to just work as it's supposed to - ie: throw a picture consistently via the HDMI out, just like the Oppo does.

It's pretty unacceptable that a $1,200 AVR can't interface to a PJ through HDMI out using the exact same cable that works on a $200 Tivo HD or a $500 Oppo DVD player. That would imply the HDMI port on the AVR is underpowered or has other quirkiness that the lesser cost devices don't, which is crazy.
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post #1622 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 09:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB_63 View Post

Good idea, but isn't the cable working as expected if the PJ displays a picture when hooked directly to the source (Oppo BDP-103) vs through the AVR X-4000?

It would appear the issue is that the Denon is not putting out a strong enough signal for the cable to work, whereas the Oppo is.

Have you contacted Denon to ask that question? It just may be a problem with your particular unit as opposed to the model but I'm no expert.
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post #1623 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 10:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB_63 View Post

Thanks..I was thinking the exact same thing, and was going to try a HDMI repeater/extender.

Does anyone know of a good one that supports full 1080p & 3D @ 60hz & 24hz? Been searching for a while and haven't found one yet.

I have purchased blueriggers off big river and have had great success.

Here: http://www.amazon.com/BlueRigger-In-wall-Installation--supports-version/dp/B004GW25WY/ref=sr_1_sc_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1375722374&sr=1-1-spell&keywords=blueriger+hdmi+50

I use the 50' to run outside to my PJ for movie nights and it has performed flawlessly...construction seems excellent to me. Don't think one could ask for it to be more reasonably priced, either.

Good luck to you.

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post #1624 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 10:11 AM
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No..I figured they'd punt on the question since another (shorter) cable works just fine. So, they'd probably say "cable's bad - try another", instead of admitting that something is not right with the HDMI out port.

Does anyone know if there's such as a thing as signal strength for a HDMI port? Or is there potentially some other reason that the AVR X-4000 can't sync with the PJ to throw a picture, where the same cable hooked directly to the same input source (Oppo BDP-103) CAN display a picture?
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post #1625 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 10:29 AM
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I have zero statistical evidence but I have read dozens of accounts where a long HDMI cable did not work when another DID. Same brands, different brands, quality tiers, etc. I would at least try one more cable.

James

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post #1626 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 11:13 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Your experience is why the suggested configuration with a cable/sat box is HDMI direct to the TV with optical from the box to the AVR as cable/sat boxes are generally not designed to be connected to an HDMI repeater (ie. AVR) rather directly to the TV.

That's unfortunate, since one of the reasons I upgraded from my HK AVR-225 to the E400 was to simplify cabling and make it less likely for inputs to be set wrong (although I have a Harmony remote, the setting of receiver/TV inputs can be wrong if you don't point the remote the right way all through the startup sequence, which for my Samsung TV is close to 20 seconds long.) Plus my optical in is in use by my XBMC HTPC - I'll have to check if the cable box has a coax digital out.
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post #1627 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 12:58 PM
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It looks like my right front channel on my x4000 stopped working. Any suggestions on troubleshooting before I return the receiver.

So far I performed the following:

1. Ran the AA - battery test to test that the speaker wasn't blown. It seemed fine. This was step was suggested in one of the troubleshooting guides. I performed the same test on a known working speaker and heard static in both speakers.
2. Saved the configuration file and reset the processor, but still no luck

Any other suggestions?

Appreciate the help and thanks in advance.

Ian
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post #1628 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 01:27 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian McCoy View Post

It looks like my right front channel on my x4000 stopped working. Any suggestions on troubleshooting before I return the receiver.

So far I performed the following:

1. Ran the AA - battery test to test that the speaker wasn't blown. It seemed fine. This was step was suggested in one of the troubleshooting guides. I performed the same test on a known working speaker and heard static in both speakers.
2. Saved the configuration file and reset the processor, but still no luck
Any other suggestions?
Appreciate the help and thanks in advance.
Ian
Probably obvious stuff to mention. Is this occurring listening to anything built in to the AVR (network, internet radio)? Were you using bare wire or banana jacks? Look for cabling or connection problems. Have you switched speakers wiring (L -> R, R-> L) as a test to the speaker posts. You've verified that the speakers in setup are enabled?

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post #1629 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 01:27 PM
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you PROBABLY did this already but, if not, check the speaker wire connections, then check the speaker wire with a known good one...

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RED AND BLUE=MAROON!

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post #1630 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 03:23 PM
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I'm looking to purchase the X1000. I plan to run only a 5.1 setup. I have PSB B5 fronts, C4 centre and B4 surrounds. Is X1000 sufficient enough to power these speakers? I may upgrade the fronts to PSB T5, center to C5 and keep B5 as surrounds sometime in the future. Will it be good enough to power those as well?

Thanks in advance.
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post #1631 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 03:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treker747 View Post

I'm looking to purchase the X1000. I plan to run only a 5.1 setup. I have PSB B5 fronts, C4 centre and B4 surrounds. Is X1000 sufficient enough to power these speakers? I may upgrade the fronts to PSB T5, center to C5 and keep B5 as surrounds sometime in the future. Will it be good enough to power those as well?

Thanks in advance.
I'd go for at least the x2000. It has a number of other features that might be beneficial to you, see post # 2.
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post #1632 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 05:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tww1fa View Post

That's unfortunate, since one of the reasons I upgraded from my HK AVR-225 to the E400 was to simplify cabling and make it less likely for inputs to be set wrong (although I have a Harmony remote, the setting of receiver/TV inputs can be wrong if you don't point the remote the right way all through the startup sequence, which for my Samsung TV is close to 20 seconds long.) Plus my optical in is in use by my XBMC HTPC - I'll have to check if the cable box has a coax digital out.

Again, this is an issue that has been discussed throughout all the forum threads for years ... HDMI is simply a poorly implemented technology.

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post #1633 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 05:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by treker747 View Post

I'm looking to purchase the X1000. I plan to run only a 5.1 setup. I have PSB B5 fronts, C4 centre and B4 surrounds. Is X1000 sufficient enough to power these speakers? I may upgrade the fronts to PSB T5, center to C5 and keep B5 as surrounds sometime in the future. Will it be good enough to power those as well?

Thanks in advance.

As John suggests, review post #2 of this thread. If you don't ever see yourself using any of the additional features on the X2000, then the X1000 will work just as well power wise.
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post #1634 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 05:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB_63 View Post

Good idea, but isn't the cable working as expected if the PJ displays a picture when hooked directly to the source (Oppo BDP-103) vs through the AVR X-4000?

It would appear the issue is that the Denon is not putting out a strong enough signal for the cable to work, whereas the Oppo is.

Or, should the cable just work regardless of source (Oppo vs. Denon AVR?)

I picked up a $20 HDMI extender from RS last night (didn't want to wait for MonoPrice to deliver one)..will try that tonight to see if it helps. Am also thinking HDBASE-T or two shorter HDMI cables with a HDMI extender between them as a workaround.

Fortunately, the Oppo has HDMI IN and split A/V between two HDMI ports. So, I can run the PJ directly to the Oppo (Redmere cable works) and the 2nd HDMI cable into the Denon X-4000. Then feed a second set of devices via a HDMI switch into the Oppo. That's not a "great" solution, though, since switching input sources on the Oppo requires navigating up and down a list of possible sources - far as I know, you can't push "INPUT 1" for input 1, etc. So, WAF through the Harmony remote is likely to be pretty low with that approach, and I'd really prefer the $1,200 Denon AVR to just work as it's supposed to - ie: throw a picture consistently via the HDMI out, just like the Oppo does.

It's pretty unacceptable that a $1,200 AVR can't interface to a PJ through HDMI out using the exact same cable that works on a $200 Tivo HD or a $500 Oppo DVD player. That would imply the HDMI port on the AVR is underpowered or has other quirkiness that the lesser cost devices don't, which is crazy.

The signal coming from the source is always going to be stronger than when it goes through an HDMI repeater (ie. AVR). This is why the first thing to check is using a shorter HDMI cable and if that works, the issue is generally going to be that additional power (ie. HDMI extender) is required. Another way to check is reducing the resolution from 1080p to 720p using the same long length cable.
Quote:
Originally Posted by BBB_63 View Post

No..I figured they'd punt on the question since another (shorter) cable works just fine. So, they'd probably say "cable's bad - try another", instead of admitting that something is not right with the HDMI out port.

Does anyone know if there's such as a thing as signal strength for a HDMI port? Or is there potentially some other reason that the AVR X-4000 can't sync with the PJ to throw a picture, where the same cable hooked directly to the same input source (Oppo BDP-103) CAN display a picture?

Note that per the HDMI spec, distance is only guaranteed for about 20' without using an extender, although in some cases some folks have used a 50' Monoprice non-Redmere cable without any issues.

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post #1635 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 07:51 PM
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I replaced my dying Onkyo that the bad Onkyo HDMI board issue with the X4000. Now for the second time since setting it up it had snow or static on the HDMI inputs. I had to power cycle the unit a few times to get them back. Anyone else seen this? I’m really bummed out.
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post #1636 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 08:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanquen View Post

I replaced my dying Onkyo that the bad Onkyo HDMI board issue with the X4000. Now for the second time since setting it up it had snow or static on the HDMI inputs. I had to power cycle the unit a few times to get them back. Anyone else seen this? I’m really bummed out.
Snow or static are symptoms of HDMI handshaking issues. You need to check your HDMI cabling, possibly replace cables. Its possible the problem could be cause by another HDMI device in the AV path, by using settings other then defaults. Deep color, color space, resolution selected with display/AVR, 24 hz operation for starters.
Are you using the built in video processing in the x4000 in addition to the video processing of the source, how about the video processing in your HDTV. Lots of ways to create problems here.

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post #1637 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 08:57 PM
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Originally Posted by JohnAV View Post

Snow or static are symptoms of HDMI handshaking issues. You need to check your HDMI cabling, possibly replace cables. Its possible the problem could be cause by another HDMI device in the AV path, by using settings other then defaults. Deep color, color space, resolution selected with display/AVR, 24 hz operation for starters.
Are you using the built in video processing in the x4000 in addition to the video processing of the source, how about the video processing in your HDTV. Lots of ways to create problems here.

I’m thinking it’s a DENON hardware issue of some kind. Never seen snow on any HDMI inputs before, ever. The AVR it replaced never did this. Never does it after the AVR is on, only at power up. The first time it did it, all 4 inputs I use had snow. Then today just one of the inputs had snow. I have three TiVos and an HTPC. Why only one out of 6 to 10 times I turn it on it would it have this issue?

The AV path is Device, AVR then TV.

I don’t know about deep color or color space. Did not think that was selectable. The TV will show a 30bit message for the input when I turn it on. It always has. I’ve tried to turn off any video processing I can find.

Video>Picture Adjust>Picture Mode = Off
Video>Output Settings>Video Conversion = On
Video>Output Settings>i/p Scaler = Off

I’ve not turned off the menu overlays though. The TiVos are set to 1080i and I don’t know of any way to change video processing in the TV. It’s a Kuro and I use the Dot for Dot setting. I use 24Hz on the HTPC from time to time but it’s almost never on when the AVR is powered on.
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post #1638 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As John suggests, review post #2 of this thread. If you don't ever see yourself using any of the additional features on the X2000, then the X1000 will work just as well power wise.

I just ordered the X1000. The only difference between X1000 and X2000 is the 4K capability other than the 2 extra channels. I don't forsee buying a 4K TV in the next 3-4 years, the timeframe I'm likely to keep the new receiver anyways. So I will save some dough seeing I intend on only running a 5.1 setup for the foreseeable future.

Thanks John and JD!
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post #1639 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 09:13 PM
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Hey guys, I need some advice.

I just got my AVR-X4000 all setup and calibrated. Sounds absolutely amazing...but then again, I am coming from a 2001 non-HDMI Yamaha AVR. haha....

Anyways, I have two questions.

1 - What is NEO X? I have a 7.2 system...is NEO X for me, or should I just stick with the Dolby Digital PIIz stuff?

2 - I was reading in the FAQ at the beginning of this thread and it talked about how you want to avoid a -12.0 on the subwoofer during calibration. Well...my first sub is set to -7.0 and my second sub is set to -12.0 .....I don't have a volume control on this second sub. It's power amp...to in-wall sub. Nothing in between and no way to control volume. How can I improve/fix this situation?

Basically, Audyssey is saying that my dual 8inch in-wall sub is too loud and it can't bring the volume down any lower than -12.0. I don't know how to resolve this.

Thanks!

EDIT: Will something like this be okay? I have an Emotiva UPA-1 power some in-wall 8 inch subs, but there is no volume controller in-between the amp and sub. I was told this would work as a volume controller: http://www.amazon.com/Scosche-RLC-Remote-Level-Control/dp/B002EEP3WA/ref=sr_sp-atf_title_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1375778353&sr=8-3&keywords=RCA+volume+control

Safe to use to help get that in-wall sub under control?
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post #1640 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 10:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanquen View Post

I’m thinking it’s a DENON hardware issue of some kind. Never seen snow on any HDMI inputs before, ever. The AVR it replaced never did this. Never does it after the AVR is on, only at power up. The first time it did it, all 4 inputs I use had snow. Then today just one of the inputs had snow. I have three TiVos and an HTPC. Why only one out of 6 to 10 times I turn it on it would it have this issue?

The AV path is Device, AVR then TV.

I don’t know about deep color or color space. Did not think that was selectable. The TV will show a 30bit message for the input when I turn it on. It always has. I’ve tried to turn off any video processing I can find.

Video>Picture Adjust>Picture Mode = Off
Video>Output Settings>Video Conversion = On
Video>Output Settings>i/p Scaler = Off

I’ve not turned off the menu overlays though. The TiVos are set to 1080i and I don’t know of any way to change video processing in the TV. It’s a Kuro and I use the Dot for Dot setting. I use 24Hz on the HTPC from time to time but it’s almost never on when the AVR is powered on.
If you disconnect that remaining input showing snow, do you still have a problem with snow showing against the other three inputs any more?

Don't need to turn off video conversion, need that to see your setup GUI overlay.

Have you checked to see if the X4000 output settings for video mode is set AUTO (default)? Used to process video automatically based on the HDMI content information.

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post #1641 of 8911 Old 08-05-2013, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by William K View Post

Hello everyone...If had this receiver would I be able to hook up my headphone amp to the "Media Player Audio Out" analog jacks? It says on pg. 130 of the manual "When using the audio/video recording connectors (MEDIA PLAYER
outputs), you can record the audio or video" My headphone amp is analog and of course has rt and left rca plugs.

Thanks

I have set this up with a Home Headroom amp connected to AVR-X4000 LR Media Player outputs. However, only certain sources like my CD player play through to the headphone amp. For example, I've attempted to play AirPlay either to my Apple TV and directly to the AVR and neither signal passes to the headphone amp. I'm suspicious that 1) only analog sources play through to the headphone amp (no HDMI audio pass through), or 2) I've misconfigured something.

Any thoughts?
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post #1642 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 01:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanquen View Post

I replaced my dying Onkyo that the bad Onkyo HDMI board issue with the X4000. Now for the second time since setting it up it had snow or static on the HDMI inputs. I had to power cycle the unit a few times to get them back. Anyone else seen this? I’m really bummed out.

Lots of good troubleshooting tips listed in post #3 of this thread to include the one below directly related to your issue .....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_L23

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post #1643 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patheticloser View Post

I have set this up with a Home Headroom amp connected to AVR-X4000 LR Media Player outputs. However, only certain sources like my CD player play through to the headphone amp. For example, I've attempted to play AirPlay either to my Apple TV and directly to the AVR and neither signal passes to the headphone amp. I'm suspicious that 1) only analog sources play through to the headphone amp (no HDMI audio pass through), or 2) I've misconfigured something.

Any thoughts?

On previous year's 331XCI models, whatever source is selected to play to Zone 2 will also pass to the analog audio output. Try this and see if it doesn't work for you as well.

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post #1644 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 04:39 AM
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On my X 4000 when I go to the manual setup and select levels followed by test tone start I hear the tones from my fronts, center, and surrounds but I don't hear anything from my sub. I was expecting a rumble noise similar to the one I hear when I do the Audyssey setup. Even when I increase the level on my remote when the test time is playing I don't hear from the sub. Note that this was after I finished the Audussey setup and the volume level on the sub is at 10 o clock position. I know the connection to the sub is fine as I hear the rumble during the Audyssey setup. Is this expected?!
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post #1645 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 05:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by orangeblast View Post

What is NEO X? I have a 7.2 system...is NEO X for me, or should I just stick with the Dolby Digital PIIz stuff?

I think Neo:X is for expanding to 9.2 or 11.2 by using height/wide speakers. http://www.dts.com/consumers/entertainment-audio/neox.aspx#about


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post #1646 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 06:47 AM
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Rule #1 for using HDMI should be have extra cables around.

I have had name brand cables just stopped working. The easiest way to start diagnosing problems is to swap out cables. Sure it was working yesterday but today.... I think we all got sucker punched with HDMI and HDCP.
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post #1647 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Lots of good troubleshooting tips listed in post #3 of this thread to include the one below directly related to your issue .....

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_L23

Ok, I guess I have a bad X4000 then? Unless all my cables and or devices went bad after buying the X4000. I’ll try a reset but I’ve only seen that work with routers and PCs. smile.gif
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post #1648 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 08:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tanquen View Post

Ok, I guess I have a bad X4000 then? Unless all my cables and or devices went bad after buying the X4000. I’ll try a reset but I’ve only seen that work with routers and PCs. smile.gif

Sorry I don't remember the whole history of your problem but couldn't it just be the one cable between the TV and X4000?
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post #1649 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 02:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by patheticloser View Post

I have set this up with a Home Headroom amp connected to AVR-X4000 LR Media Player outputs. However, only certain sources like my CD player play through to the headphone amp. For example, I've attempted to play AirPlay either to my Apple TV and directly to the AVR and neither signal passes to the headphone amp. I'm suspicious that 1) only analog sources play through to the headphone amp (no HDMI audio pass through), or 2) I've misconfigured something.

Any thoughts?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

On previous year's 331XCI models, whatever source is selected to play to Zone 2 will also pass to the analog audio output. Try this and see if it doesn't work for you as well.

I have my Headphone Amp hooked up this way (Zone 2) and it works fine...I like it even better because I can adjust the volume remotely.
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post #1650 of 8911 Old 08-06-2013, 07:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

Sorry I don't remember the whole history of your problem but couldn't it just be the one cable between the TV and X4000?

Could be lots of things but:

It has only done this twice thus far out of maybe 40-ish power ups. Maybe 8 of those were with the unit being off more than 8 hours.

It only ever shows this issue when first powered on after being off for a long period of time.

The first time it was every one of the 4 inputs I use, switched around many times but only a power cycle fixed it. Then the second time it was just one input and I switched around many times but again, only a power cycle fixed it. That same input came in through pass through mode right away after powering it off.

I took out one AVR and plugged all the same cables into this one. I’ve never seen this (snow) on any AVR before.

I’m mirroring to a TV in the office and I’ll have to check I the next it does this. I just can’t see it being the cable to the TV though.
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