The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 70 - AVS Forum
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post #2071 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 12:59 PM
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Anyone on the 4ohm ? I would like to purchase today

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post #2072 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:02 PM
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^^
Batpig and I both responded to your question a couple of posts ago. confused.gif

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post #2073 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:19 PM
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Sorry I didn't see that thanks , I guess I will hold off for now

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post #2074 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:21 PM
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The L&R speakers

Design



7" 3-way

Response



45hz-20K (+2/-3db)

Bass Extension
F10 (-10db)



26hz

Sensitivity
(db/2.83v/1M)



84.5db

Impedance
(average / minimum)



5 / 4 ohms

Suggested Power
(watts / channel)



75-150

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post #2075 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:21 PM
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Center

Design



Dual 7" 3-way

Response



66-20K (+1/-3db)

Bass Extension
F10 (-10db)



38hz

Sensitivity
(db/2.83v/1M)



86.5db

Impedance
(average / minimum)



8 / 5 ohms

Suggested Power
(watts / channel)



50-150

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post #2076 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:22 PM
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The surrounds are 8 ohm

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post #2077 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

As is the case with any Denon E/X model, there should be no issues driving 4-ohm speakers at "moderate" levels (ie < -20db); however, none of them (to include the X4000) is designed to power 4-ohm speakers to higher volume levels without the aid of an external amp, unlike the Denon flagship 4520CI which is designed to power 4-ohm speakers.

In the future I might like to try an X4000 but I would be keeping my existing Arcam three channel power amp. Do you think that the remaining 4 channels powered by the X4000 (surrounds side and back) would be OK with 4ohm speakers as I like to listen nearer to reference (maybe -5dB or a little lower depending on the content)?

Speakers would be MK MP150 and MK 150T if that helps (all 4ohm models of course).

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post #2078 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 06:24 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm confused. The Sony DH710 is an av receiver. So is the X4000. Why would you want to connect one receiver to another receiver?

It would help if you explained more about what you are trying to do.
im trying to do 9.1 and i thought u can use an avr as an amp am i wrong?
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post #2079 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 06:26 PM
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Nope.

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post #2080 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 07:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sebas Garcia View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

I'm confused. The Sony DH710 is an av receiver. So is the X4000. Why would you want to connect one receiver to another receiver?

It would help if you explained more about what you are trying to do.
im trying to do 9.1 and i thought u can use an avr as an amp am i wrong?

But you were asking about INPUTS on the X4000. What does that have to do with using the other receiver as an amp? That would be the OUTPUT.

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post #2081 of 8647 Old 08-28-2013, 09:21 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

But you were asking about INPUTS on the X4000. What does that have to do with using the other receiver as an amp? That would be the OUTPUT.
I was asking how would i use a Sony avr as an amp
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post #2082 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 02:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

In the future I might like to try an X4000 but I would be keeping my existing Arcam three channel power amp. Do you think that the remaining 4 channels powered by the X4000 (surrounds side and back) would be OK with 4ohm speakers as I like to listen nearer to reference (maybe -5dB or a little lower depending on the content)?

Speakers would be MK MP150 and MK 150T if that helps (all 4ohm models of course).

More than likely that configuration would work without issue, as the surrounds draw very little power compared to the FL/C/FR speakers (that is as long as you're not using the "Multi CH Strereo" surround mode).
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post #2083 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 09:09 AM
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I bought an E400 receiver and set it up, although I haven't received my speakers yet. I did this based on the standby pass through feature. This is working fine for getting satellite TV audio through the TV's speakers, however I want to watch a netflix movie via the PS3. Is it possible to pass through the audio for sources other than the satellite? I suppose a workaround could be to re-assign my PS source, but is there another way?
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post #2084 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 09:22 AM
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Is there any way to include the front B speakers in the Audyssey? I have them hooked up and running and can switch between the A's and B's but I would like to run Audyssey too. Time to break out the SPL meter.

Also when I tried Amp Assign 7.1ch/2ch Front I did not get the Front Speaker Setup. Only when I used 5.1ch + Front B. In the manual p181 it states that when using 7.1ch/2ch Front to do the Front Speaker Setup. Not a big deal for me since I am just using the Front A/B to test out some new speakers. I just had to change speaker terminals in back but it seemed weird.

So far this new speaker kit blows. I hope I mis-wired something.
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post #2085 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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@ rec head -- The manual has a typo about the "Front Speaker Setup" being available for the 7ch/2ch mode.

But if you think about it, it makes sense that it's not. The "Front Speaker Setup" menu is there to tell the receiver which of the A/B speakers are active in 2ch vs. multich mode. However, the entire point of the 7ch/2ch mode is to preset the amp such that it "knows" you have a separate pair of 2ch speakers for stereo content. The amp AUTOMATICALLY switches in this mode, so the "Front Speaker Setup" menu is redundant. The automatic switching enables you to run a full 7ch setup with all 7 amps, and then switch the amps to the alternate 2ch speakers when you use Stereo modes. In the standard "5.1+B" mode two of the amps are dedicated to the "B" speakers, so it is possible to run 5ch with A+B speakers running simultaneously.

However, you CAN still use the 2ch Playback menu to customize the levels, distances and bass management for the dedicated 2ch speakers.

Regardless, you can't ever run a separate Audyssey EQ for the "B" speakers. There's also no longer any simple A/B speaker switch, the way it works is to have it automatically switch based on surround mode.

So all that said, it makes A/B comparison of two pairs of speakers a bit less straightforward than the old days. I've played with this and figure out how to make it happen on my X4000. The key is to take advantage of (1) the automatic switching by surround mode and (2) the fact that Multich Stereo just copies the exact same stereo signal to all speakers.

So to do this, set AMP ASSIGN mode to 7ch/2ch mode. That means your "A" pair hooked up to the FR/FL binding posts and the second "2ch" speakers hooked up to the F.Wide bindings posts. Then go into Speaker Config and deactivate ALL speakers (sub, center, surrounds) except for the two stereo pairs that you are comparing. Now you only have four "active" speakers, the "A" pair and the "B" pair. Now the A/B switching part.... to change between the two, all you have to do is select MULTICH STEREO to hear the "A" speakers and STEREO to hear the "B" speakers! Easy to do with a Harmony remote or by using the Movie/Music/Game buttons (memorizing multich stereo on one button and stereo on another).

The signal that gets sent to the FR/FL speakers is identical in MultichSt mode as it is in regular Stereo mode. But because there aren't any other speakers active, you are essentially "tricking" the receiver into giving you stereo playback for the "multi channel speakers". And you can use the "2ch Playback" menu to tweak the levels on the "B" speakers to correct for any sensitivity difference between the two.
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post #2086 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 10:22 AM
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Thanks Batpig. It's good to know about the manual is messed up not my comprehension. In this case at least.

Using the 5.1ch + Front B is working fine to A/B the speakers. I just set them up and switch between A and B. It switches pretty fast. I would have done it your way if I hadn't already unhooked my surround backs to use those amps as the B speakers. It would have been nice to manually assign the amps instead of having to use the surround backs but I think that is a 4520 feature.

The next problem is that I can't figure out how to send the pink noise to the B speakers in manual setup. I'm going to have to try and find may calibration CD now?!?!
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post #2087 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 10:38 AM - Thread Starter
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I don't think you can. The internal test tones will just hit the "core" speakers, it won't trigger the internal relays to switch the amp to the "B" speakers.

If you just want to get a general level match you can change amp assign back the normal 7.1 mode and play the test tones through them as though they were Surround Back speakers. Then you can determine how much of a level difference you need between the A and B speakers.

Out of curiosity how are you doing the A/B switch in 5.1+B mode? Using the surround mode?

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post #2088 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 10:53 AM
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So using 5.1+B I have them hooked up as they are supposed to be then I just switch between A and B. You can choose A+B too but that isn't very helpful.

I found my cal disc and I can't for the life of me figure out how to level match the A+B using the 7.1/2ch Front configuration. When you go to the 2ch menu and change the levels it applies the same settings to A+B not individually. Looks like I'm going to have follow your recommendation above. What a pain. I have to think that anybody that wants to use A+B speakers also wants to be able to calibrate them individually.
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post #2089 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 11:42 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
So using 5.1+B I have them hooked up as they are supposed to be then I just switch between A and B.

You didn't answer the question -- HOW do you switch between A and B????

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post #2090 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 02:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qlalani View Post

I bought an E400 receiver and set it up, although I haven't received my speakers yet. I did this based on the standby pass through feature. This is working fine for getting satellite TV audio through the TV's speakers, however I want to watch a netflix movie via the PS3. Is it possible to pass through the audio for sources other than the satellite? I suppose a workaround could be to re-assign my PS source, but is there another way?

Although the factory default of SAT/CBL is the most common source that is passed through while the AVR is in Standby, you can set the "Standby Source" to any of the HDMI inputs as noted below ...


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post #2091 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 03:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

Is there any way to include the front B speakers in the Audyssey? I have them hooked up and running and can switch between the A's and B's but I would like to run Audyssey too. Time to break out the SPL meter.

Also when I tried Amp Assign 7.1ch/2ch Front I did not get the Front Speaker Setup. Only when I used 5.1ch + Front B. In the manual p181 it states that when using 7.1ch/2ch Front to do the Front Speaker Setup. Not a big deal for me since I am just using the Front A/B to test out some new speakers. I just had to change speaker terminals in back but it seemed weird.

So far this new speaker kit blows. I hope I mis-wired something.

Yup .. if by "include" you mean A+B, otherwise, as batpig notes, you cannot do an independent EQ of the Front B.

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post #2092 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 03:21 PM
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HDMI Standby Pass Through

And speaking of this feature, one thing that I've learned with my new DirecTV HR-44 DVR is that if I power on the TV and DVR first which activates the Standby Pass Through feature on the AVR, the AVR will switch to DD PLII mode in order to pass a stereo signal to the Panny TV which is unable to receive a DD 5.1 signal (what the DVR is set to, Dolby Digital - Yes). But when I power on the AVR, the AVR remains at the DD PLII mode, so in order for the AVR to receive the DD 5.1 signal from the DVR, I must first power on the AVR, and then power on the TV and DVR .... so if you're having similar issues, try changing the power on sequence of your devices. smile.gif

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post #2093 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 03:56 PM
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Hey jd or bp, can you confirm that on my X2000 if I copy the "Audyssey Flat EQ Curve" to the graphic equalizer in any one of my inputs, it will be a global setting for all inputs that I set to use the graphic equalizer?

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post #2094 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 04:02 PM - Thread Starter
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As far as I know there is only one memory slot for the Graphic EQ. So the answer would be yes. You can easily confirm this for yourself though by simply changing inputs and examining the settings to see if the changes you made to the other input carry over.

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post #2095 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 04:06 PM
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Thanks, I was talking with a buddy and telling him how to use his X2000 and wasn't home to test it for myself.

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post #2096 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 04:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You didn't answer the question -- HOW do you switch between A and B????

Sorry I didn't have the AVR or manual in front of me.
Speakers>manual>2ch playback

Then I just switch between A or B
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post #2097 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 04:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yup .. if by "include" you mean A+B, otherwise, as batpig notes, you cannot do an independent EQ of the Front B.

So the EQ isn't that big of a deal but I can't even figure out how to set the levels independently.
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post #2098 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 04:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by batpig View Post

@ rec head -- The manual has a typo about the "Front Speaker Setup" being available for the 7ch/2ch mode.

But if you think about it, it makes sense that it's not. The "Front Speaker Setup" menu is there to tell the receiver which of the A/B speakers are active in 2ch vs. multich mode. However, the entire point of the 7ch/2ch mode is to preset the amp such that it "knows" you have a separate pair of 2ch speakers for stereo content. The amp AUTOMATICALLY switches in this mode, so the "Front Speaker Setup" menu is redundant. The automatic switching enables you to run a full 7ch setup with all 7 amps, and then switch the amps to the alternate 2ch speakers when you use Stereo modes. In the standard "5.1+B" mode two of the amps are dedicated to the "B" speakers, so it is possible to run 5ch with A+B speakers running simultaneously.

However, you CAN still use the 2ch Playback menu to customize the levels, distances and bass management for the dedicated 2ch speakers.

Regardless, you can't ever run a separate Audyssey EQ for the "B" speakers. There's also no longer any simple A/B speaker switch, the way it works is to have it automatically switch based on surround mode.

So all that said, it makes A/B comparison of two pairs of speakers a bit less straightforward than the old days. I've played with this and figure out how to make it happen on my X4000. The key is to take advantage of (1) the automatic switching by surround mode and (2) the fact that Multich Stereo just copies the exact same stereo signal to all speakers.

So to do this, set AMP ASSIGN mode to 7ch/2ch mode. That means your "A" pair hooked up to the FR/FL binding posts and the second "2ch" speakers hooked up to the F.Wide bindings posts. Then go into Speaker Config and deactivate ALL speakers (sub, center, surrounds) except for the two stereo pairs that you are comparing. Now you only have four "active" speakers, the "A" pair and the "B" pair. Now the A/B switching part.... to change between the two, all you have to do is select MULTICH STEREO to hear the "A" speakers and STEREO to hear the "B" speakers! Easy to do with a Harmony remote or by using the Movie/Music/Game buttons (memorizing multich stereo on one button and stereo on another).

The signal that gets sent to the FR/FL speakers is identical in MultichSt mode as it is in regular Stereo mode. But because there aren't any other speakers active, you are essentially "tricking" the receiver into giving you stereo playback for the "multi channel speakers". And you can use the "2ch Playback" menu to tweak the levels on the "B" speakers to correct for any sensitivity difference between the two.

If I do this is there a way to set the levels of A and B independently? I'm seeing stars I have spent so much time looking at the GUI.

I really wish I had saved my setup before getting into this. I tried once when I got the AVR and it didn't work so I haven't bothered since.
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post #2099 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 05:01 PM - Thread Starter
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No, A and B share settings. If you use the special 2ch amp assign mode then you can use the 2ch playback menu to set different levels for the 2ch speakers.

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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

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Originally Posted by batpig View Post

You didn't answer the question -- HOW do you switch between A and B????

Sorry I didn't have the AVR or manual in front of me.
Speakers>manual>2ch playback

Then I just switch between A or B

Gotcha, thanks. Are you using the web browser? Would be much faster that way.

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post #2100 of 8647 Old 08-29-2013, 06:32 PM
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Original thread: http://www.avsforum.com/t/1488325/denon-avr-e400-and-polk-rm75-low-volume-bad-configuration-audio-mode

I am trying to get my Polk RM75 front Left and Right to play audio, correctly using stereo mode and FM Tuner input.

To sum up the original thread, I did the speaker and Audyssey setup. All 3 speakers are loud and strong during the setup, however when I simply try my FM Tuner Input, the front left and right speakers are very faint. If I switch to audio mode to Dolby D, the center channel plays loud as expected.

How can I get the left and right speaks to play correctly?
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