The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 73 - AVS Forum
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post #2161 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwmac44 View Post

RE; 2146

Turns out switching the HDMI cable solved the problem.

Once again showing that just because a device works when connected directly to the TV doesn't necessarily rule out the HDMI cable as being the culprit for no video/audio when connected to the AVR. smile.gif

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post #2162 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 06:43 AM
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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

That's good to know! I'm coming from a Sony 4400es myself. Would you mind elaborating more on the differences with the Sony aside from the obvious newer gadgets? I find Sonys pretty user friendly and easy to navigate, how's the learning curve compared to the denon? Thanks!

Glad to give you my "somewhere between layman and audiophile" perspective.

The X-2000 was easy to setup.

It helped me, as others have mentioned, that the unit is an inch or more less deep than my Sony is. My receiver sits in a built-in cabinet under some shelves in our family room with no access from behind, so having a little smaller form factor was welcome. Everything I have to connect to the receiver is HDMI (Xfinity X1 box, PS3, PC), so connections were easier with less "stuff" back there (I imagine this is common for other new receivers too).

The Audyssey setup on screen instructions were easy to follow. In general, I found the Denon's GUI to be as good/intuitive as the 3300ES. Hitting the SETUP button got me where I wanted to go to check or change a setting.

The Denon remote is a lot cleaner, with way fewer buttons. For my family, having buttons that say "cbl/sat" and "Blu-ray" are better than HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc.

I like Denon's "INFO" button to see what signal it is getting and what it is outputting.

A little thing - a bug in the 3300ES did not allow it to show things like volume level on the TV screen if connected via HDMI. I assume that was fixed for the 4400ES, but in my setup it strained even my LASIK-repaired eyes to see what the volume was on the Sony's display.

I read through this thread, beginning with the outstanding summaries by batpig and jdsmoothie. A lot of great tips there and a fine alternative when I could not find something quickly in the Denon owner's manual.

The networking features are new to me but work great so far.

As far as sound goes.... I noticed a much greater "surrounded" feeling when watching Iron Man on blu-ray. When he is escaping from the cave in the improvised suit, the bullets ricocheted around the room far better than before. Watching "Live Free or Die Hard" on cable surprised me with more sound from the surround speakers - at one point I thought someone was in the hall to my right when it was a sound effect in the movie. That did not happen before. Even my kids' pop music - not my favorite - had a depth of sound and "liveliness" that I have not heard before.
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post #2163 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 07:43 AM
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When watching a movie my Blu Ray info says DTS-HD Master but the X4000 does not display DTS on any sound mode . I have a Sony BDP S790 and Im ruuning HDMI 1 direct to TV and HDMI 2 into the x4000 HDMI Blu Ray

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post #2164 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

When watching a movie my Blu Ray info says DTS-HD Master but the X4000 does not display DTS on any sound mode . I have a Sony BDP S790 and Im ruuning HDMI 1 direct to TV and HDMI 2 into the x4000 HDMI Blu Ray

Have you got your Blu Ray player's output set to " Bitstream " ? If not it's doing the audio processing instead of the receiver.

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post #2165 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

When watching a movie my Blu Ray info says DTS-HD Master but the X4000 does not display DTS on any sound mode . I have a Sony BDP S790 and Im ruuning HDMI 1 direct to TV and HDMI 2 into the x4000 HDMI Blu Ray

In addition to setting the Sony to "bitstream" as Sean suggests, you'll also need to set the BD Audio Mix setting to OFF as well.


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post #2166 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:16 AM
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OK I can't believe I cannot figure this out - this morning I wanted to watch a movie from my Prime membership via the Vizio app. I can navigate the menues on Prime, but when I select play, the video goes blank.

I am familiar with using apps on other devices that have inputs, but how the heck do I get sound and video from the TV with only one HDMI between the x4000 and the TV? What does the x4000 need to be set on to receive the reverse signal and what settings does the TV need to be on to pass the audio to the x4000? I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere, but just looking for a quick answer if anyone is out there that can help.

Thanks in advance.
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post #2167 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Sean Spamilton View Post

Have you got your Blu Ray player's output set to " Bitstream " ? If not it's doing the audio processing instead of the receiver.

Yes it was set to bitstream

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post #2168 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:22 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In addition to setting the Sony to "bitstream" as Sean suggests, you'll also need to set the BD Audio Mix setting to OFF as well.



BD Audio Mix setting was ON so I turned it off

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post #2169 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Live Steam View Post

OK I can't believe I cannot figure this out - this morning I wanted to watch a movie from my Prime membership via the Vizio app. I can navigate the menues on Prime, but when I select play, the video goes blank.

I am familiar with using apps on other devices that have inputs, but how the heck do I get sound and video from the TV with only one HDMI between the x4000 and the TV? What does the x4000 need to be set on to receive the reverse signal and what settings does the TV need to be on to pass the audio to the x4000? I'm sure it's in this thread somewhere, but just looking for a quick answer if anyone is out there that can help.

Thanks in advance.

I have provided lots of great setup/troubleshooting tips in post #3 of this thread to include the following on ARC ...

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1465528/the-official-2013-denon-e-series-x-series-avr-model-owners-thread-faq/0_100#user_E4

Also review posts #4-6 for additional helpful information. smile.gif

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post #2170 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:29 AM
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If I scroll through the Movie sound modes still no DTS

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post #2171 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 08:36 AM
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Do you still see Muti CH IN? Try resetting the BDP ... unplug it ... plug back in and power back on.

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post #2172 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 10:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gnk1 View Post

Glad to give you my "somewhere between layman and audiophile" perspective.

The X-2000 was easy to setup.

It helped me, as others have mentioned, that the unit is an inch or more less deep than my Sony is. My receiver sits in a built-in cabinet under some shelves in our family room with no access from behind, so having a little smaller form factor was welcome. Everything I have to connect to the receiver is HDMI (Xfinity X1 box, PS3, PC), so connections were easier with less "stuff" back there (I imagine this is common for other new receivers too).

The Audyssey setup on screen instructions were easy to follow. In general, I found the Denon's GUI to be as good/intuitive as the 3300ES. Hitting the SETUP button got me where I wanted to go to check or change a setting.

The Denon remote is a lot cleaner, with way fewer buttons. For my family, having buttons that say "cbl/sat" and "Blu-ray" are better than HDMI 1, HDMI 2, etc.

I like Denon's "INFO" button to see what signal it is getting and what it is outputting.

A little thing - a bug in the 3300ES did not allow it to show things like volume level on the TV screen if connected via HDMI. I assume that was fixed for the 4400ES, but in my setup it strained even my LASIK-repaired eyes to see what the volume was on the Sony's display.

I read through this thread, beginning with the outstanding summaries by batpig and jdsmoothie. A lot of great tips there and a fine alternative when I could not find something quickly in the Denon owner's manual.

The networking features are new to me but work great so far.

As far as sound goes.... I noticed a much greater "surrounded" feeling when watching Iron Man on blu-ray. When he is escaping from the cave in the improvised suit, the bullets ricocheted around the room far better than before. Watching "Live Free or Die Hard" on cable surprised me with more sound from the surround speakers - at one point I thought someone was in the hall to my right when it was a sound effect in the movie. That did not happen before. Even my kids' pop music - not my favorite - had a depth of sound and "liveliness" that I have not heard before.
That's what I was hoping to hear. Thanks a lot for your detailed comparison. Fwiw, I could only ever get onscreen volume with component connected sources for some reason.
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post #2173 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 10:58 AM
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Originally Posted by rec head View Post

The volume level does not af
The volume does not affect Audyssey. It does affect manual level adjustment with the internal pink noise. Volume differences between the two avr's is not a big deal. Audyssey sets 0 to be reference level. As long as you are getting the SPL's you need in your room then where the volume is set is irrelevant.

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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Modern AVRs use a logarithmic volume scale so you generally won't hear much below 50, more likely using 55-70 for most listening. Also, as rec head notes, Audyssey ignores ANY settings (volume or otherwise) made prior to running Audyssey, rather what you are referring to is using the Manual Setup test tone only regarding the volume level being set to 70 or 80.

Thank you both for your replies, and for putting my mind at ease. Although I am pleased with the sound, I had a nagging suspicion that something was amiss because it felt like I was nearly maxing out the receiver to get good sound. jd is exactly right, the 50 to 70 range is where we have been listening.

David
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post #2174 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 11:09 AM
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Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

In addition to setting the Sony to "bitstream" as Sean suggests, you'll also need to set the BD Audio Mix setting to OFF as well.


Huh. I might have some more tweaking to do. We watched a Blu-ray movie last night, and the Denon's display said "Multi". The sound was very good, but I expect the display should indicate that the receiver is playing DTS Surround - shouldn't it? confused.gif

I will check that our Samsung Blu-ray player's audio output it set to bitstream. Is the BD Audio Mix setting on the Blu-ray player or the receiver?

Many thanks,

David
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post #2175 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 11:13 AM
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Originally Posted by david3772 View Post

Is the BD Audio Mix setting on the Blu-ray player or the receiver?

It's in the BD player. On my Sony S5100 is must be set to off to receive DTS HD.

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post #2176 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by david3772 View Post

Huh. I might have some more tweaking to do. We watched a Blu-ray movie last night, and the Denon's display said "Multi". The sound was very good, but I expect the display should indicate that the receiver is playing DTS Surround - shouldn't it? confused.gif

I will check that our Samsung Blu-ray player's audio output it set to bitstream. Is the BD Audio Mix setting on the Blu-ray player or the receiver?

Many thanks,

David

The quality is the same either way whether the BDP decodes it to PCM or the AVR does .... some folks just prefer to see the compressed audio codec on the AVR front panel display (ie. DTS HD-MA vs. Multi CH IN).

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post #2177 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by david3772 View Post

Huh. I might have some more tweaking to do. We watched a Blu-ray movie last night, and the Denon's display said "Multi". The sound was very good, but I expect the display should indicate that the receiver is playing DTS Surround - shouldn't it? confused.gif

I will check that our Samsung Blu-ray player's audio output it set to bitstream. Is the BD Audio Mix setting on the Blu-ray player or the receiver?

Many thanks,

David

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The quality is the same either way .... some folks just prefer to see the compressed audio codec on the AVR display.

Hi david3772, as jdsmoothie posted the quality is the same. But to have the receiver to decode set the Samsung BD player audio menu set it to "Bitstream (AUDIOPHILE).
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What kind of interconnects should be used when using a separate amp/avr with an x4000? Will any composite cables work?
Reason I ask is that the spot for my receiver only has an inch above and on the sides for clearance, but is open in the front and back. I've never had an issue with my Sony over heating and shutting off despite getting pretty hot. My setup doesn't allow for different placement until I can save for a standout design or something comparable. I figure I'll try it and see, if I have issues then I'll use an old avr to take some of the stress off the denon.
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post #2179 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 12:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by D Bone View Post

It's in the BD player. On my Sony S5100 is must be set to off to receive DTS HD.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The quality is the same either way whether the BDP decodes it to PCM or the AVR does .... some folks just prefer to see the compressed audio codec on the AVR front panel display (ie. DTS HD-MA vs. Multi CH IN).

Quote:
Originally Posted by JChin View Post


Hi david3772, as jdsmoothie posted the quality is the same. But to have the receiver to decode set the Samsung BD player audio menu set it to "Bitstream (AUDIOPHILE).

Thanks guys, I am grateful for the help. My wife really appreciates it, too. I have a tendency to obsess a little over these things, and tune everything and everybody else out for a socially unacceptable period of time.... rolleyes.gif

I changed the BDP's audio output to Bitstream (Audiophile) and the Denon AVR now displays "DTS-HD MA B-ray". Ahhh, excellent. Even if the sound is no better, having the newly purchased Denon do the decoding feels better.

I couldn't find a BD Audio Mix setting, but I noticed another setting in the BDP Audio section. It is right beneath the digital output option and is labeled "PCM Downsampling". The explanation reads, "Select this when the Amplifier connected to the player is not 96KHz compatible. 96KHz signals will be down converted to 48 KHz." Is this Samsung's version of BD Audio Mix? And either way, I want to turn this off, don't I? I'm sure my awesome new Denon is 96KHz compatible. Well, pretty sure.

David
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Yes, you can turn off PCM Down Sampling

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post #2181 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 12:20 PM
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Yes, you can turn off PCM Down Sampling

I suspected that was the case, but thanks for the confirmation.

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Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

What kind of interconnects should be used when using a separate amp/avr with an x4000? Will any composite cables work?
Reason I ask is that the spot for my receiver only has an inch above and on the sides for clearance, but is open in the front and back. I've never had an issue with my Sony over heating and shutting off despite getting pretty hot. My setup doesn't allow for different placement until I can save for a standout design or something comparable. I figure I'll try it and see, if I have issues then I'll use an old avr to take some of the stress off the denon.

I'm pretty sure that video and audio RCA cables have different shielding and impedance. I have used either in a pinch and never noticed a difference but when I buy them I buy them for the intended use.

If you are worried about heat you can buy a fan. There are tons of options from USB to AC so you could plug it into a USB port or a regular socket. Since the X4000 doesn't have a AC or rear USB you could plug it into the TV or something that is on when the AVR is on.
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My Blu Ray Audio Options

Audio HDMI Auto/PCM Set Auto

DSD Output On/Off Set On

BD Audio Mix Settings Off/On Set Off

Dolby Digital DTS Bitstream/Downmic PCM Set Bitstream

DTS Neo 6 Cinema/Music/Off Set Off

Audio DRC Auto/On/Off Set Off

Downmix Surround/Stereo Set Stereo


http://hometheater.about.com/od/bluraydiscplayerreviews/ss/Sony-Bdp-S790-3d-Network-Blu-Ray-Disc-Player-Photo-Profile_7.htm

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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I'm pretty sure that video and audio RCA cables have different shielding and impedance. I have used either in a pinch and never noticed a difference but when I buy them I buy them for the intended use.

If you are worried about heat you can buy a fan. There are tons of options from USB to AC so you could plug it into a USB port or a regular socket. Since the X4000 doesn't have a AC or rear USB you could plug it into the TV or something that is on when the AVR is on.
When the denon comes in, I'll measure for a fan while I'm rewiring. Thanks, would you mind providing an example of the cables you'd purchase for my situation?
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post #2185 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 02:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

What kind of interconnects should be used when using a separate amp/avr with an x4000? Will any composite cables work?
Reason I ask is that the spot for my receiver only has an inch above and on the sides for clearance, but is open in the front and back. I've never had an issue with my Sony over heating and shutting off despite getting pretty hot. My setup doesn't allow for different placement until I can save for a standout design or something comparable. I figure I'll try it and see, if I have issues then I'll use an old avr to take some of the stress off the denon.


For hooking up an external amp these would work fine and there cheap

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236

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post #2186 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 02:25 PM
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Originally Posted by a1usedcomp View Post

For hooking up an external amp these would work fine and there cheap

http://www.monoprice.com/products/search.asp?keyword=analog+rca+cable
Thanks, those look much better than what I've got 😀
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post #2187 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 02:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ambesolman View Post

Thanks, those look much better than what I've got 😀


I used these for a long time

http://www.monoprice.com/products/subdepartment.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10236


If you don't mind spending a bit more these would be better LC1

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/6channel/index.htm


Or if you just need 2 LC1

http://www.bluejeanscable.com/store/audio/index.htm

Preamp: NOS Valves NBS Preamplifier
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post #2188 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 03:23 PM
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Monoprice looks good to me, thanks again.
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post #2189 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 04:00 PM
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post #2190 of 8195 Old 09-01-2013, 04:10 PM
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Reply Receivers, Amps, and Processors

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Denon Avr 2309ci Receiver , Denon Avr4310ci Receiver , Denon , Denon Electronics , Polk Audio Monitor70 Series Ii Floorstanding Loudspeaker , Onkyo Tx Nr626 7 2 Channel Network Audio Video Receiver , Denon Avr E200 , Denon Avr E300 , Denon Avr E400 , Denon Avr X2000 7 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X3000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X4000 7 2 Channel Home Theater Receiver , Denon Avr X1000 5 1 Channel Home Theater Receiver
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