The 'Official' 2013 Denon "E Series" / "X Series" AVR Model Owner's Thread & FAQ - Page 91 - AVS Forum
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post #2701 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 11:32 AM
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I was debating the differences between the X4000, 4250 and the Marantz 7008 on a UK forum. I was told that the X4000 has Audyssey Pro enabled, but the UK website and documentation doesn't mention it. Since the guy who told me is generally very knowledgeable about AVRs I'm reluctant to disagree with him, but more after confirmation that this is indeed the case: I have access to a Pro kit so it would be of great use to me once I've sorted out my various speaker and sub changes first.

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post #2702 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 12:52 PM
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The X3000 and X4000 (as well as their predecessors going back a few years) are both capable of connecting to the Audyssey Pro Kit.
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post #2703 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 01:57 PM
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I eventually found it listed at the bottom of the Denon X4000 page. What threw me was that the similar Marantz 7008 has 'Pro' next to the Audyssey logo on the brochure, but the X4000 doesn't.

I can't decide between the X4000 or the 4250 since in the UK there are a few deals on and there is only £300 between them. At first I though it might be worth the extra for Audyssey Pro (since my dealer will loan me the kit), but that's confirmed as on the X4000 as well so not a plus point for the 4250.

I have a separate 3 channel THX spec power amp that I will be using to power the LCR with (MK MP150), so I'm not so much in need of the 4250's extra power since it will only be driving front heights, side surrounds and surround backs (no room for front wides). That leaves the extra 2 channels from the 4250 for front wides which I can't use now, but might in 3 years time if I build my dedicated room (when I'd probably upgrade the amp anyway).

I can't really think of any audio reasons why it would be worth me getting the 4250 over the X4000 since I have zero interest in web radio/networking features. I don't even want any video processing features since I use a separate Lumagen Radiance VP, plus I prefer NOT to have things like volume, etc appear on the screen since that doesn't happen at the cinema and I don't want it happening in my HT.

I'm planing on upgrading the front LCR speakers first (hoping to have a home demo next week of the MK MP150) plus I'm building 2 x 15" sealed subs using Fi Q series drivers. I want to see how that all sounds first, but it might be a good idea to try to sell my old speakers, sub and existing processor before Christmas, so if I find a decent deal on the X4000 maybe worth just getting it now (and adding front heights since I have a spare pair of M&K K15 speakers).

Any reasons why I might regret getting the X4000 over the 4250?

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post #2704 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:06 PM
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The X4000 can provide stereo audio from external devices to the second zone without the need for stereo analog input connections. Unfortunately, the 4520 needs the stereo analog input connections. Of course, if you aren't piping audio from the receiver to another room, that wouldn't matter to you.

The 4520 has 9 amps but can provide full 11.1 channels of audio with the addition of an external stereo amp. The X4000 has only 9 audio channels and only 7 amps, although you can connect all 11 speakers. You have to select which pair of speakers are not used.
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post #2705 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:23 PM
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My current second room set up is just a single HDMI cable from a HDMI splitter (connected to the output of my Mini3D VP). This goes into the TV's HDMI input which in turn outputs this signal via it's optical output. I then just have stereo sound decoded into ProLogic II by my older AVR3805 in this second room. I have a coax cable run direct from my Oppo to the Denon AVR3805 in the second room for full 5.1 sound.

If it is possible to do this via the third HDMI output on the X4000 then that would be good (though I'd still have to use the coax from the Oppo for 5.1 since the 3805 doesn't have any HDMI inputs at all of course). I don't need any further signals or features going to the second room since most of the time it's just live TV with very occasional recordings off the PVR.

I need to check to see if the X4000 would need to be switched on in order to view a picture in the second room as this might be a pain, but I could live with it.

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post #2706 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

....., plus I prefer NOT to have things like volume, etc appear on the screen since that doesn't happen at the cinema and I don't want it happening in my HT.

Any reasons why I might regret getting the X4000 over the 4250?

Too funny ... first time I've ever heard it put that way ....smile.gif

Based on your requirements, sounds like the X4000 would suit you very well. The X4000 has a Zone 2 (HDMI) output that could connect to the 2nd room TV directly and play either the same HDMI source as is playing in the main room or a separate HDMI source. You could likely get an HDMI ---> optical converter similar to the one below to avoid the extra cable connection from the AVR to the 3805.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?seq=1&format=2&p_id=5557&CAWELAID=1329451830&catargetid=320013720000010715&cadevice=c&cagpspn=pla&gclid=CM2Dm--x4bkCFUdo7AodMFYAcw

Keep in mind even though you won't have to pay for the Audyssey Pro Kit, you'll still have to pay the $150 USD license fee to enable the kit to be used with the AVR.
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post #2707 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:35 PM
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Thanks JD. I'm aware there is a cost implication for the Pro set up, but at least I should have access to the kit which would otherwise be fairly costly to buy (and maybe not cost effective at least at UK prices). Compared to the MK 150 speakers I'm buying, the twin 15" subs I'm building and then this amp, the extra charge for the licence is the least of my worries. biggrin.gif

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post #2708 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:50 PM
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My X4000 has been acting strange. When I shut off zone 2 it blanks out the screen in zone one. My zone 2 hookup is analog pre-outs only. A temporary screen blanking in zone1 is normal when I shut off z2 but now I can't get z1 to come back on. It may flash back on a couple times but the only thing that I can do is completely shut the unit and TV down and then restart them. When I do this z2 comes back on too which it shouldn't. I initially thought this had to do with the new video drivers on my HTPC but it is happening on different sources.

I am going to try unplugging for 10 minutes and if that doesn't work then a hard reset but my wife is using it right now so I'll have to wait. I have backed up my configuration so doing a hard reset isn't too big of a pain if I need to. Any other suggestions before I do it?
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post #2709 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:51 PM
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Nope. Soft reset is your first step.

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post #2710 of 9666 Old 09-23-2013, 03:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

Thanks JD. I'm aware there is a cost implication for the Pro set up, but at least I should have access to the kit which would otherwise be fairly costly to buy (and maybe not cost effective at least at UK prices). Compared to the MK 150 speakers I'm buying, the twin 15" subs I'm building and then this amp, the extra charge for the licence is the least of my worries. biggrin.gif

No doubt. tongue.gif

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post #2711 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 04:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post


I can't really think of any audio reasons why it would be worth me getting the 4250 over the X4000 since I have zero interest in web radio/networking features. I don't even want any video processing features since I use a separate Lumagen Radiance VP, plus I prefer NOT to have things like volume, etc appear on the screen since that doesn't happen at the cinema and I don't want it happening in my HT.

The cinema also doesn't pause the movie when you need a bathroom break! biggrin.gif
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post #2712 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Ace Deprave View Post

The cinema also doesn't pause the movie when you need a bathroom break! biggrin.gif

But one is a convenience and the other I find is an inconvenience. biggrin.gif

It just seems a bit 'duff' having things appear on the projector screen such as volume levels...I'm hoping that isn't compulsory with the X4000 otherwise I'll have to bypass it with my Radiance and just use the second HDMI output on my Oppo to feed the X4000 with audio.

The X4000 was reviewed in a UK magazine 'Home Cinema Choice' which I bought today. They seemed to think it was 'OK' but almost damning it with faint praise. However, their comments are less applicable to me since I'll be using it more like a processor than an amp.

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post #2713 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 12:07 PM
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I have a question on my X2000 and the auto-scaling feature.

I have my Wii hooked up via Component to the Denon and then HDMI out from the Denon to my Sony TV.

Out of the box, the Denon was sending a "squished" 4:3 signal to my TV from the Wii. You could tell the Wii was sending a widescreen signal (everything looked too narrow) and I confirmed in the Wii that it is set for 480p and 16:9.

Once I turned on the scaling in the Denon for just the analog input and set it to 16:9 on the output, it worked fine.

My question is, why didn't the Denon send through the signal as is? (i.e. a 480p 16:9 signal) I would have thought that if I wanted the signal to just pass through, it would send it without doing anything to it, but it seems to have converted it to 4:3. I used to have the Wii hooked up directly to my TV via component and I don't remember having to do anything special with it to get it to display properly.
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post #2714 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 12:21 PM
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Originally Posted by Kelvin1965S View Post

But one is a convenience and the other I find is an inconvenience. biggrin.gif

It just seems a bit 'duff' having things appear on the projector screen such as volume levels...I'm hoping that isn't compulsory with the X4000 otherwise I'll have to bypass it with my Radiance and just use the second HDMI output on my Oppo to feed the X4000 with audio.

The X4000 was reviewed in a UK magazine 'Home Cinema Choice' which I bought today. They seemed to think it was 'OK' but almost damning it with faint praise. However, their comments are less applicable to me since I'll be using it more like a processor than an amp.

Yes, the Volume indicator can be turned off as noted below ....

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post #2715 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 12:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bacevedo View Post

I have a question on my X2000 and the auto-scaling feature.

I have my Wii hooked up via Component to the Denon and then HDMI out from the Denon to my Sony TV.

Out of the box, the Denon was sending a "squished" 4:3 signal to my TV from the Wii. You could tell the Wii was sending a widescreen signal (everything looked too narrow) and I confirmed in the Wii that it is set for 480p and 16:9.

Once I turned on the scaling in the Denon for just the analog input and set it to 16:9 on the output, it worked fine.

My question is, why didn't the Denon send through the signal as is? (i.e. a 480p 16:9 signal) I would have thought that if I wanted the signal to just pass through, it would send it without doing anything to it, but it seems to have converted it to 4:3. I used to have the Wii hooked up directly to my TV via component and I don't remember having to do anything special with it to get it to display properly.

The Aspect Ratio should have defaulted to 16:9 so not sure why you had to set it to 16:9.

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post #2716 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 12:42 PM
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Thanks - I'll play with it some more to see if I can figure out what was causing it to display weird on my TV. It's possible I had a setting somewhere on my TV that needed to be changed as I am still getting used to the new setup.
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post #2717 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 01:17 PM
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It's not Denon. It's your tv. There is nothing for Denon to "fix".

I disagree. I've tried this receiver on 3 different Smart TV brands(Vizio, LG and now Samsung) and they ALL do exactly the same thing... trigger the Denon to jump to the Audio output when they were turned on. If they are all doing it, then whether it's the way the TV's are implementing things or not, it's in Denon's best interest to work properly with them. These TV manufacturers only have their own brand in mind when setting these things up. They want you to buy their brand. Denon doesn't do TV's so to me, it's in Denon's best interest to make their product work as well as they can with others.

On another subject, on my screen blanking, I'm not sure plugging the cable in fully fixed it. It blanked twice last night but we think one may have been the movie itself and the second may have been the channel as very shortly after the blank, the channel's feed went crazy. We are going to continue to monitor it tonight.
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post #2718 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 01:43 PM
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^^
Okay so now try connecting 2 other brands of AVR and you'll likely get the same experience as on the Denon, the ARC signal will trigger the AVR to switch to the TV input. smile.gif
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post #2719 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 01:47 PM - Thread Starter
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HDMI CEC is just a big fat mess unfortunately.

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Can you disable it?
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post #2721 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 02:11 PM
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^^
Yup ... set the HDMI Control setting to OFF.

The work around is to set HDMI Control to OFF and set the HDMI-CEC feature on the TV to OFF and then connect an optical cable from the TV to the AVR and no more hassle, not to mention possibly better quality audio (DD 5.1) as many TVs can only output PCM 2.0 over HDMI(ARC).

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post #2722 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 02:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Yes of course. Just turn "HDMI Control" off in the receiver. But unfortunately ARC is tied to it, so you then have to go the "old fashioned" route of using a digital audio cable from the tv to the AVR for any audio tuned in the tv to pipe back. The only disadvantage though is the extra cable.

That's really the problem with HDMI CEC overall, all of the stuff is "automatic" to try and make the consumers life easier "in theory", but there is inconsistency about how each mfgr implements it and they don't separate the functions to allow separate settings to tune it how you want.

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post #2723 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 02:20 PM
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Quote:
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^^
Okay so now try connecting 2 other brands of AVR and you'll likely get the same experience as on the Denon, the ARC signal will trigger the AVR to switch to the TV input. smile.gif

I don't disagree. Someone is dropping the ball on this in a sense. But the TV companies don't care. They want you to buy their branded equipment to go with their TV. Since the Denon's or any other receiver brand's(except maybe Sony since they do TV's too) out there don't do TV's, they should be working harder to integrate better with other brand's TVs.
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post #2724 of 9666 Old 09-24-2013, 07:10 PM
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I fixed the issue with my Denon switching to the TV input automatically by powering on the Denon before the TV. Seems to have fixed it for me.

I just went into the Harmony settings for all of my activities and made the receiver the first device to power on. It seems that with my Sony TV, if it is powered on before the receiver, then it would cause the receiver to switch to the TV input.

Edit: Actually, just realized that this didn't fix it. I think that when the TV is first powered on after being off for a while, it delays and then sends the signal to the receiver to switch over. After this first power up, it powers on quickly so that it sends the signal before the receiver is on. At least that's my guess.

Anyway, looks like I'll be switching to optical so that I don't have to worry about this.
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post #2725 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 05:04 AM
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You can set the harmony to increase the delay between switching on devices.
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post #2726 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 06:55 AM
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[rant] It is sooooooo frustrating trying to explain to a customer that has a 7 channel AV receiver and a 5 channel amplifier in a 7.1 main zone system that he needs to buy ANOTHER amplifier to power his zone 2 outdoor speakers. [/rant] It would be great if I could reassign one of the 5 unused amplifiers built into the box. I cant believe they still don't let us do it..... mad.gif

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post #2727 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 07:44 AM
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Depends on whether the customer is using Surr Back, Front Height, or Front Wide as to whether another amp is required. The flagship Denon 4520CI features amp "Free Assign" which can take advantage of the unused amps, but then it is a 9.2 AVR so wouldn't require any use of that feature for a 7.1/Zone 2 setup , otherwise, if the AVR has the extra speaker posts for connecting the Zone 2 speakers, you can also likely change the "Amp Assign" setting from 7.1 to 5.1/Zone 2.

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post #2728 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 08:05 AM
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I keep trying to save my configuration because I want to do a hard reset. I have tried Chrome and IE on 2 different computers. The X4000 goes through the entire process and I get a 951kb config.dat file but when I view it in a hex editor I have all ZEROS. It was recommended to check the file in a hex editor when I was using a 3808. Is this still the case?
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post #2729 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 08:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rec head View Post

I keep trying to save my configuration because I want to do a hard reset. I have tried Chrome and IE on 2 different computers. The X4000 goes through the entire process and I get a 951kb config.dat file but when I view it in a hex editor I have all ZEROS. It was recommended to check the file in a hex editor when I was using a 3808. Is this still the case?

I've had trouble with the config saves in the past. You might already know this, but of course internet explorer is the Denon preferred browser for saving for some reason. Others found a way around the inability to use other browsers a while back in this thread. In addition, you can SEE the save icon but have it not actually work if for some reason you've been using some network functions previously. You could go to a network source ( any of them ) and then make sure to quit them as opposed to just flipping to another input - that worked for me. Why it does this I have no idea - stupid if you ask me. Anyways hope this helps.
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post #2730 of 9666 Old 09-25-2013, 09:15 AM
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Tried unplugging the X4000 and then plugging it in and going straight to the "save" another file filled with zeroes.
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