*Official* Pioneer SC-1522 9.2 Network ready AV receiver owners thread - Page 40 - AVS Forum
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post #1171 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:09 AM
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+1. Until you crank it really up and hear distortions, there is no evidence that this receiver can't sound as good as your old HK. You simply try to compare the volume numbers which is like comparing apples to oranges.

+1. Always power on from display back to source, e.g. TV->AVR->Cable box or BD player. (Never knew that, doesn't seem to matter on my system)

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #1172 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Foxbat121 View Post

Always power on from display back to source, e.g. TV->AVR->Cable box or BD player. A universal remote like Harmony will make your family memeber's life much easier because you can set the proper power on order in the remote setup and they only need to press one button and everything will be powered up in correct order and switch to correct inputs.

My Time Warner remote does that, no need for a Harmony. I have it setup to power on in the order you listed. But, there is still a limited success rate.

Can you guys explain what you're talking about a little more? I have some knowledge of what you're talking about and how the calibration works, but I feel like I'm missing something. If he does the calibration and it sets the receiver's 0db to reference level, that accounts for sensitivity etc because it sets that level based on what the microphone picks up during calibration? If so, why would he need to turn the receiver volume past zero to get substantial output when others don't? I know that source has some involvement in output, but I watched a movie last night via PS3 @-40 and it was audible enough for me to hear (I don't have the greatest hearing) and enough to bother my wife in the other room.biggrin.gif I know that when he says loud, that is subjective, but his numbers seem awful high just to me. I'm also running Infinity's, just 362's instead of 163's. It would seem he is running out of headroom quickly.

Again, I'm just trying to learn here guys. I understand you can't apply settings across everyone because of variables, but the numbers just look high on paper.
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post #1173 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

(Never knew that, doesn't seem to matter on my system)

It depends. From my past experiences with Pioneer AVRs, it is always the 1080p signal that is problematic. If you power on AVR first, e.g. listen to radio, for a while. Then you power on TV, it will often cause 1080p signal to not pass through the receiver (flashing HDMI light on AVR). Morden source devices like BD players and cable boxes are much more stable these days because they can automatically re-negotiate HDCP handshake if the link is broken. But Pioneer seems still stuck in the past that it will only do so at power up.
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post #1174 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguyhileman View Post

Can you guys explain what you're talking about a little more? I have some knowledge of what you're talking about and how the calibration works, but I feel like I'm missing something. If he does the calibration and it sets the receiver's 0db to reference level, that accounts for sensitivity etc because it sets that level based on what the microphone picks up during calibration? If so, why would he need to turn the receiver volume past zero to get substantial output when others don't? I know that source has some involvement in output, but I watched a movie last night via PS3 @-40 and it was audible enough for me to hear (I don't have the greatest hearing) and enough to bother my wife in the other room.biggrin.gif I know that when he says loud, that is subjective, but his numbers seem awful high just to me. I'm also running Infinity's, just 362's instead of 163's. It would seem he is running out of headroom quickly.

Calibration can only do so much using an internally generated signal at reference level. But that does not mean all input signal will be at that level, especially analog audio signals. Even for digital audio, I found I often have to raise the volumn to close to 0db for music playback using Windows Media Center. All other music playback is fine. WMC happens to lowered the music level for whatever reason.

What his real problem is that he kept comparing to same volume level reading of the HK receiver which I don't believe is calibrated.
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post #1175 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:42 AM
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That's what I'm not understanding. I believe I've seen people before say when they say 0db on their calibrated 1522, they know exactly what that translates too on someone else's 1522 due to calibration. However, by what you say that doesn't seem to be the case? In reality, 0db isn't a reference point if signal can change that. It may equal reference for that test tone, but not in real world scenarios?
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post #1176 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 09:07 AM - Thread Starter
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That is correct. But if we are using the same source, e.g. a BD movie disc, the output should be the same assume the BD players don't mess it up (most don't). So, if I watch a movie at -20db on my setup. I should expect the same level of sound pressure on another calibrated system on the same movie disc. But that is not to say you will be getting the same from a different movie disc because studio could author discs differently. Some like it quiet and some like it loud. The same reason why TV commercials are typically much louder than the show on the same channel.
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post #1177 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 09:43 AM
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I hear what you are saying about the importance of calibration and not being able to compare to an uncalibrated AVR. My understanding is that -20 dB setting is calibrated to 85 dB. Listening to a THX encoded DVD on my AVR at -20dB is almost too quiet to hear. I don't have any way to measure the sound output, but it definately isn't 85dB. I had the volume set to +6dB yesterday before it really sounded loud. I wouldn't expect to have to max out the dial for it to get loud.
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post #1178 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 10:45 AM
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Would you consider investing in a cheap SPL meter? Or you could download REW from hometheatershack.com if you have a laptop, it has a built in SPL meter. Now I know someone will complain that your laptop mic is not calibrated, blah blah, but it is a fast and easy check, to give a rough idea ( fwiw, REW, does have a mic calibration to SPL built in IIRC).

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #1179 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 10:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer_Elte View Post

I think I may have experienced that too. It will be a flashing pattern that continues until I switch inputs or turn off the receiver but it will happen after watching the source for a bit. It happens sporadically and I only have BD hooked up to the receiver so I'm unsure if it's isolated to that. It was suggested that I turn off DeepColor and try a different HDMI cable but that didn't work. The cable I tried (and still use) from the BD to the AVR is a GE cable from BJs that is rated for 3D and 4K, and from the AVR to the TV is a monoprice redmere, so I doubt that it's a bandwidth issue. Also, I've had the latest firmware (via USB) from day 1.

If anyone has a suggestion, I'm all ears.

Mine does that whenever I turn on my Dune media player, at the beginning of the movie and after the movie is finished and goes back to the Zappiti jukebox. My flashes green though. It doesn't bother me since I know it probably does it due to changing output.

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post #1180 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 10:55 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguyhileman View Post

My Time Warner remote does that, no need for a Harmony.
Can the TW cable remote also provide delays? Some pieces of equipment require a longer period before they are stabilized and ready to handle the handshake. The Harmony (at least my Ultimate) can control both the sequence and the delay in power up. I know this sounds like an awful amount of mucking about with things but HDMI doesn't exactly live up to a plug and play expectation in many cases. I highly recommend the remote as a way to make a home theater setup VERY reliable when being used by those who just want things to work and those who don't want to play AV consultant to the family for the constant issues we had with HT control. Everyone in the family can use it without issue. To me, that is more than enough to justify the steep price of the Harmony Ultimate.

Jeff
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post #1181 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 11:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GusGus748s View Post

Mine does that whenever I turn on my Dune media player, at the beginning of the movie and after the movie is finished and goes back to the Zappiti jukebox. My flashes green though. It doesn't bother me since I know it probably does it due to changing output.

Mine will start in the middle of the movie and continue until I cycle the power on the receiver or switch back & forth between inputs (my lazy power cycling method tongue.gif ). Although the latter method doesn't seem to last long.

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post #1182 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 11:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pioneer_Elte View Post

Mine will start in the middle of the movie and continue until I cycle the power on the receiver or switch back & forth between inputs (my lazy power cycling method tongue.gif ). Although the latter method doesn't seem to last long.

That sucks. Mine only does it with the Dune. With my PS3 or Xbox it doesn't it do it. It almost makes me think the Dune turns off the HDMI feed to it, and once the AVR gets the signal back it stops doing it.

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post #1183 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 11:47 AM
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I don't like it, but since it doesn't happen often I'm not too worried about it yet. If it happens more before the warranty ends, I'll probably give Pioneer a call and see what they say.

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post #1184 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Would you consider investing in a cheap SPL meter? Or you could download REW from hometheatershack.com if you have a laptop, it has a built in SPL meter. Now I know someone will complain that your laptop mic is not calibrated, blah blah, but it is a fast and easy check, to give a rough idea ( fwiw, REW, does have a mic calibration to SPL built in IIRC).

A spl meter purchase is good advice. But I recall REW's built in meter had to be calibrated to my radio shack meter before it could be used.

The app Audio Tool for my andriod phone has a spl meter function that is pretty accurate below 75dB for mid tones and is $6.00 as I recall.
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post #1185 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 12:22 PM
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Thanks for all the replies everyone. To answer some questions (hopefully I get them all). All my HDMI cables are a couple of months old from Monoprice (I even used some purchased from Amazon). They are all under six feet of length. They all should be high speed (which should suffice for 1,4 I believe). I have tried different cables and still the same. None of these cables posed any problems on my Onkyo 818 (I believe Foxbat was saying that Pioneer might be more finicky?).

I will try and change the power up sequence to TV>AVR>source. I know some have talked about delaying the settings on a Harmony One. Can some of you share some of the times (I also have a Harmony One with the defaults currently).

I too see the green/magenta screen when sources are changing (this is not a problem to me). It is the video and audio dropouts, however, while watching a TV show, Bluray, or PS3 that is driving me bonkers. I have installed the new firmware update (USB) first thing, so I'm not sure if it helped or made things worse.

Does it seem weird that my Pioneer 1120 has none of these problems? I just want to make sure all bugs are worked out before the 30 day return period is over. The AVR sounds nice and MCACC sounds a bit more separated and airy (if that makes any sense) than Audyssey. I do notice that Audyssey boosts the lower frequencies compared to the MCACC. I find the bass perfect. It only really punches when needed. The Audyssey seems to have the bass over present. I'm running my L/C/R through a Emotiva and the rest of the channels (9.2 all together) off of the 1522.

Thanks again for all the help.
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post #1186 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 01:18 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffCar View Post

Can the TW cable remote also provide delays? Some pieces of equipment require a longer period before they are stabilized and ready to handle the handshake. The Harmony (at least my Ultimate) can control both the sequence and the delay in power up. I know this sounds like an awful amount of mucking about with things but HDMI doesn't exactly live up to a plug and play expectation in many cases. I highly recommend the remote as a way to make a home theater setup VERY reliable when being used by those who just want things to work and those who don't want to play AV consultant to the family for the constant issues we had with HT control. Everyone in the family can use it without issue. To me, that is more than enough to justify the steep price of the Harmony Ultimate.

Jeff

No built in delay. But for about two weeks, I turned on the system manually causing a natural couple second delay between each device...still no dice. I don't think I should have to buy a special remote and figure out a perfect delay for trouble free power on. I'm not saying this is Pioneers fault because I understand other companies suffer hdmi problems. I just don't think this should be a constant problem to have to deal with...just my opinion.
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post #1187 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DaveCarrera4 View Post

Would you consider investing in a cheap SPL meter? Or you could download REW from hometheatershack.com if you have a laptop, it has a built in SPL meter. Now I know someone will complain that your laptop mic is not calibrated, blah blah, but it is a fast and easy check, to give a rough idea ( fwiw, REW, does have a mic calibration to SPL built in IIRC).

I have access to an SPL meter that I can borrow. Is there a good way to check that everything is good with it? I can measure the output of the test tones, but they seem plenty loud. It seems to be just input sources that are choked. I'll hook up the FM antena tonight to see what kind of output I get.
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post #1188 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 03:00 PM
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@tampa frank

Listening to music by connecting portable music player directly to analog input of receiver never worked well for me. Even when using 100% volume from the music player, the music always sound lifeless and flat. I have experience with 2 different iphones and 1 ipod, connected to three different audio setups. None work well for me. I think the reason is that portable music players are just not good enough to feed high quality analog signals to receivers. So, your music not "good" issue is likely mostly due to your mp3 player analog out, not just 1522K.

For me, even CD quality music via CD input does not sound as good as digital in. Analog input sounded pretty flat to me. I used the following hookup before and did not like it: PC->USB DAC->analog out of USB DAC->CD input of 1522K. May be going through too many conversions (USB DAC -> 1522K ADC -> 1522K DAC) is the issue?

For me, playing WAV files via USB disk directly connected to the front USB input of 1522K sounded the best. Streaming from PC was good too. Even Pandora and Net Radio sounded pretty good.

Checking FM is the good first choice to check your volume issue. You can also check with Pandora or Net radio.

Other suggestions I have to get "good" response from your MP3 files:
*Copy a few of your MP3 files to USB stick and see playback the MP3 files via the front USB port of 1522K provide better experience or not.
*Don't use "direct" mode. You want to use the 1522K's compressed music enhancement feature that is turned on by default when is not in "direct" or "pure direct" mode. The compressed music enhancement feature significantly boosted the bass and treble of my music as compared to "direct" mode. I still use "direct" mode anyway since I am using WAV and not compressed music.
*Stream your MP3 files from a server.

Good luck!
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post #1189 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 03:24 PM
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+1 easy thing to try, agree with letting the 1522 do extra processing to fill in the chopped digital signal with Auto Sound Retriever and HiBit32, p. 70 of manual.

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #1190 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 03:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thatguyhileman View Post

No built in delay. But for about two weeks, I turned on the system manually causing a natural couple second delay between each device...still no dice. I don't think I should have to buy a special remote and figure out a perfect delay for trouble free power on. I'm not saying this is Pioneers fault because I understand other companies suffer hdmi problems. I just don't think this should be a constant problem to have to deal with...just my opinion.
I don't disagree - but because I don't know enough to specificaly diagnose the issue accurately, I figured I might offer a work around. I know from reading many of the posts on this and other forums that timing can and does cause HDMI handshake issues - and it isn't just with this AVR. It also seems hit and miss - my Pio has none of the issues posted on the forum - much less this specific one (knocking loudly on wood). Again, just trying to help, when we really don't have enough info to accurately identify the problem...we only have symptoms and they are not consistent or conclusive in my opinion.

Jeff
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post #1191 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 05:14 PM
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Well I powered up in the sequence suggested: TV (waited a min for TV to "warm-up", AVR for about 10-20 seconds, then blu-ray. I got the flashing about 5 mins into the blu-ray (Lilo & stitch). I think I tend to usually go TV, blu-ray, avr most of the time, but I don't remember which order I did the few times I got the flash thing previously.

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post #1192 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 05:27 PM
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I also wonder why the volume appears to play so low on various sources vs other AVRs driving the same speaker set up. I gotta admit I was let down when I turned volume to 50% about -25 Db and it wasn't exceptionally loud playing pristine source formats. The "experts" on this forum indicate this is "normal" based on calibration YAda YAda.
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post #1193 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 05:30 PM
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I'm hoping when I get some new high quality speakers soon - I will see much improvement as the ones I have now suck!
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post #1194 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 06:06 PM
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New topic, alternative Bluetooth adapter. Anyone think this Monoprice unit is a worthwhile alternative to Pioneer OEM unit? $49.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1082711&p_id=10248&seq=1&format=2

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #1195 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 06:48 PM - Thread Starter
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New topic, alternative Bluetooth adapter. Anyone think this Monoprice unit is a worthwhile alternative to Pioneer OEM unit? $49.
http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=108&cp_id=10906&cs_id=1082711&p_id=10248&seq=1&format=2

I simply don't see any value to even try that. First of all, all BT audio has lower audio quality than direct wire connection. Second of all, almost all smartphones can push digital music to the receiver via DLNA (WP or Android) or AirPlay (Apple). You don't need to spend extra $$ for lower quality audio and the dealing with the headache of BT pairing.
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post #1196 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 07:31 PM
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Good points. I'll give DNLA and AirPlay a try.

Why go out to a movie theater?
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post #1197 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 07:48 PM
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For those who do not want to do ethernet due to router distance wire cosmetcs etc You can get an IOGear GWU627 for $35 at amazon that works great as long as you don't have any other network stability issues. I have had no issues running Pandora or Internet radio and it sounds good - airplay for me has been spotty with the 1522 but again the experts say that it is my network however I have no other issues doing airplay on my network with other devices ie apple tv.
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post #1198 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:18 PM
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I agree ThatGuy. You should not be having these issues provided you have HDMI 1.4 connections. Sometimes the Sat/Cable set top boxes can be swapped out and that helps.
Pioneer had trouble with this with their first HDMI versions 1.1 and 1.2 as I had that problem with and older xxxx84 Elite. It was not very often. Have you tried swapping STBs?

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No built in delay. But for about two weeks, I turned on the system manually causing a natural couple second delay between each device...still no dice. I don't think I should have to buy a special remote and figure out a perfect delay for trouble free power on. I'm not saying this is Pioneers fault because I understand other companies suffer hdmi problems. I just don't think this should be a constant problem to have to deal with...just my opinion.
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post #1199 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:27 PM
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+1, I have the same adaptor and mentioned this earlier in this thread. Great capability and good Users Manual. No problem working with the 1522 smile.gif.

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For those who do not want to do ethernet due to router distance wire cosmetcs etc You can get an IOGear GWU627 for $35 at amazon that works great as long as you don't have any other network stability issues. I have had no issues running Pandora or Internet radio and it sounds good - airplay for me has been spotty with the 1522 but again the experts say that it is my network however I have no other issues doing airplay on my network with other devices ie apple tv.
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post #1200 of 1755 Old 06-11-2013, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffCar View Post

I don't disagree - but because I don't know enough to specificaly diagnose the issue accurately, I figured I might offer a work around. I know from reading many of the posts on this and other forums that timing can and does cause HDMI handshake issues - and it isn't just with this AVR. It also seems hit and miss - my Pio has none of the issues posted on the forum - much less this specific one (knocking loudly on wood). Again, just trying to help, when we really don't have enough info to accurately identify the problem...we only have symptoms and they are not consistent or conclusive in my opinion.

Jeff

I gotcha and I mean't no disrespect in my reply. I wasn't trying to be rude or anything. I appreciate any and all help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by sjsufootball View Post

I agree ThatGuy. You should not be having these issues provided you have HDMI 1.4 connections. Sometimes the Sat/Cable set top boxes can be swapped out and that helps.
Pioneer had trouble with this with their first HDMI versions 1.1 and 1.2 as I had that problem with and older xxxx84 Elite. It was not very often. Have you tried swapping STBs?

I have not. With my local office, it's hard to get the good boxes. My friend works for TW and I can probably get him to swap them at some point.
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