Preamp with surround processor for Bang & Olufsen speakers - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 03:43 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi there! I have 5 B&O speakers (2 Fronts 2 Rear + 1 subwoofer), and I'll buy a new non-B&O tv (Samsung F8500)...! So I'm looking for a preamp with surround processor.

I read this topic: http://www.avsforum.com/t/727111/surround-processor-for-bang-olufsen

As frenchie I'm not sure I understood how to do that:
Quote:
The only trick is setting up the trigger signal to turn on the amp in each speaker. If your pre/pro has a 12 volt trigger output, you can gang wire that to the signal line for each speaker so that they all turn on and off at the right time. You can also get a power-brick that provides that trigger voltage. Plug the brick into a switched outlet and again the speakers will turn on when you need them.

Am I right if I'm looking for this ? (f. e.): http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200 It have 2 triggers output

Or that Yamaha RX-A3020? But it's more expensive..? eek.gif And it's not a preamp...

Any advice would be appreciated!

Thx.
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 04:42 AM
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Most audio companies have receivers in their lineups which include preamp outputs, although they're usually the more expensive models. These receivers usually provide only RCA outputs.

Receivers (with preamp outputs) typically cost about 2/3 as much as the equivalent preamp/processor, just because of economies of manufacturing scale. Far more receivers are made than pre/pros.

You haven't mentioned a budget, but it's usually considered appropriate to spend twice as much on speakers as you spend on the electronics to drive them. Speakers and room acoustics make the most difference in the quality of the sound you hear, with electronics a distant third, although the room equalization software included in most modern receivers and pre/pros can compensate for many acoustic problems.

In the U.S., quality pre/pros are available in the $2000 - $3000 price range, although the manufacturer's suggested retail sales prices usually are higher than that.

The Onkyo PR-SC 885, PR-SC 5509, Integra DHC 40.2, DHC 80.3 and Marantz AV 7701 & AV 8801 are some.

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post #3 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 07:48 AM - Thread Starter
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Thx Selden Ball! Now with the latest products, it is maybe a good idea to buy a good amp, f. ex. with Audyssey, just to use the preamps outs?

Because it seems that quality pre/pros are much more expensive than very good amps... For ex. a Yamaha RX-A3020 costs 2'200 swiss francs (like a Marantz AV 7701), when a Marantz 8801 costs 4'000.- francs! rolleyes.gif
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You haven't mentioned a budget, but it's usually considered appropriate to spend twice as much on speakers as you spend on the electronics to drive them

Of course even a Marantz 8801 costs much less than the half of the B&O speakers. But B&O prices are another question wink.gif
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 09:01 AM
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As I wrote, receivers are always cheaper than equivalent preamps even though receivers contain more electronics, because the manufacturers make so many more receivers, It's expensive to run a small production line or to start-up and shut down a production line. when building the next month's supply of preamps.

Also, please be careful with your terminology:
The Yamaha RX-A3020 is a receiver, not an amp. An amp (amplifier) only takes an input signal (like the preamp output of a receiver) and amplifies (increases) it for use with a speaker. Receivers include more than just amps: they contain radio tuners, audio processors, preamps, and amplifiers. Apparently, your B&O speakers have amps built into them.

The primary distinction between receivers and preamp/processors (pre/pros for short) is that receivers have amps built into them, while pre/pros do not.

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post #5 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 09:30 AM - Thread Starter
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Apparently, your B&O speakers have amps built into them.
That's right, and you need 12 V triggers to put them on/off.

Thanks for the terminology, I'm not a specialist. That's funny because a french website says the Yamaha is the best 2012 AV Amp. Maybe they mean with "AV Amp" = receiver. http://www.audiovideohd.fr/guides/256-Guide-d-achat-home-cin-ma-image-et-son-7.html

Thanks a lot!
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 10:58 AM
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I don't know what word is most often used in French when they talk about receivers. Of course, people who aren't extremely familiar with hifi equipment often often aren't as precise in their use of the terminology as they could be.

For what it's worth, "Sounds Heavenly" seems to be a British company which provides products for connecting B&O speakers to non-B&O electronics. They might be able to provide appropriate trigger fan-outs. I have no experience with them, or with B&O speakers, for that matter. There might be other companies with similar products. See, for example, http://www.soundsheavenly.co.uk/bando-attenuated.htm

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 11:53 AM - Thread Starter
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Wow, thanks for the link soundsheavenly.co.uk. I founded nothing with google! It sounds good smile.gif

For what pre/pro concerns, a french friend of mine suggested that I think about such a solution (as I do not need an amp): an High-End Blueray Oppo 105 Signature http://www.audiocominternational.com/custom-blu-ray-players/123-oppo-bdp-105-signature.html. (For audio-fans it exists also the Oppo 105 Muse). It seems to be able to control the B&O speakers... In that case no need of a pre/pro. It could be a alternative more simple solution.

Wait and see. I a have to think about. cool.gif Thanks a lot and good afternoon!
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 12:00 PM
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You're very welcome!

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post #9 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 12:08 PM
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I have a California Audio Labs (now defunct) CL2500 surround sound processor that I'm using to drive 5 B&O speakers (4-beolab 6000, 1-beolab 4000).
You should be able to use just about any SSP (Surround Sound Processor). Just connect the SSP preamp outs to the respective speaker line input. The SSP should have a built in setup processes which will allow you to adjust each speaker level independently.

When the speaker detects a signal it will come on and then shuts off when no audio signal is present. I don't know about any 12v trigger associated with B&O speakers.

If I were to replace my SSP anytime soon I would look at the Audiolab 8200AP. Other possibilities would be Outlaw's and Emotiva's new SSPs.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 12:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Other possibilities would be Outlaw's and Emotiva's new SSPs.
Like this? UMC-200 7.1 Home Theater Preamp/Surround Processor http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/processors/products/umc200
Quote:
When the speaker detects a signal it will come on and then shuts off when no audio signal is present. I don't know about any 12v trigger associated with B&O speakers.
Do you mean you just connect the 2 analog outputs to your B&O speakers? I have 2 x BeoLab1, 1 x BeoLab2, 2 x BeoLab 4000 (and Beovision 5, Beosound 9000). But the B&O speakers use a DIN 45329/IEC 10 (7-pin at 45°) ?
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lavocat View Post

Do you mean you just connect the 2 analog outputs to your B&O speakers? I have 2 x BeoLab1, 1 x BeoLab2, 2 x BeoLab 4000 (and Beovision 5, Beosound 9000). But the B&O speakers use a DIN 45329/IEC 10 (7-pin at 45°) ?

From Page 6 BeoLab 4000 User Manual (English):
Quote:
Connection to non-Bang & Olufsen systems

Use a special adapter with an ordinary phono/RCA plug in one end, and a DIN-plug in the other (‘Cable for line signal’ – optional accessory, available from your Bang & Olufsen retailer).

Set the switch to LINE.
_

[Home Office system schematic]
"My AV systems were created by man. They evolved. They rebelled. There are many speakers. And they have . . . A PLAN."

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-08-2013, 02:29 PM
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All my B&O speakers have a single RCA line input. and also the DIN connection in their base. B&O calls their DIN connection the powerlink connection. On each speaker bottom mine has a selector switch to allow for use of the RCA line input as opposed to the powerlink connection. There is also a selector switch to set speaker as left or right but this is for the powerlink connection only. My system is not new and B&O may have modified their available connections but with the adapter mentioned above post you should be able to get you speakers connected.

The Emotiva 200 should work.

Since the speaker must detect an audio signal before they come on you may miss the the first second of sound if the speakers were not on. Once up they stay on for they wait for a time period before powering off so that momentary bits of silence , such as the silence between songs on CDs, do not shut the speakers off.
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post #13 of 22 Old 04-09-2013, 10:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Ok, it's time to say: thanks a lot for your advices ! smile.gif
Maybe I'll come back to say if it work's (or doesn't!) biggrin.gif
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post #14 of 22 Old 10-10-2013, 11:28 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pkeegan View Post

All my B&O speakers have a single RCA line input. and also the DIN connection in their base. B&O calls their DIN connection the powerlink connection. On each speaker bottom mine has a selector switch to allow for use of the RCA line input as opposed to the powerlink connection. There is also a selector switch to set speaker as left or right but this is for the powerlink connection only. My system is not new and B&O may have modified their available connections but with the adapter mentioned above post you should be able to get you speakers connected.

The Emotiva 200 should work.

Since the speaker must detect an audio signal before they come on you may miss the the first second of sound if the speakers were not on. Once up they stay on for they wait for a time period before powering off so that momentary bits of silence , such as the silence between songs on CDs, do not shut the speakers off.

Well guys, the Emotiva UMC-200 + Samsung PS64F8500 are now working. It's time to connect the B&O speakers. But regarding to the previous posts, I have to give you an information. A scoop for me!

I have an existing installation, all modulation cables are installed with 8 Din B&O plugs. I had the idea to rewire all the installation with RCA plugs. I choosed (and ordred!) Sommer Cable SC-ONYX-TYNEE. But I was not quite sure with an installation without using a trigger. And I must handle this question because a Subwoofer Beolab 2 and a Central Beolab 7-4 doesn't have an RCA mono input, only 8-Din. A pin in the din provides 5 V trigger signal. Without it those 2 speakers keep in stand-by with red light...

This very useful to know that because feedbacks of users says there is a problem, in particular one who had all in RCA wired and was not satisfied. During viewing movies, with periods without music, your speakers without signal on the RCA inputs turn off during the movie! The when music or sound effects comes back, the speakers turn on again, but this is boring.

I bought 2 cables by Steve by Sounds Heavenly in UK. It could work, but for the trigger signal he provides a transformator 5 V 1 A with a separate cable you have to use along the RCA cable... mad.gif

And thand on this forum http://forum.beoworld.org/forums/7.aspx I saw that there is a solution to use the trigger of a pre-amp, like Emotiva UMC-200. This is in Denmark (of course for B&O...): http://www.av-connection.dk/?PGr=6660

I ordered a complete kit AV-TRKDIN8-51B (AV-advance 5.1 surround Phono + Trigger to Powerlink kit (6x Phono RCA male, 4x MiniJack - 4x 8 pin DIN female) and I'll soon try it! But this solution is great and the speakers are still tun on when viewing a Titanic 3D !... smile.gif

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post #15 of 22 Old 05-10-2014, 04:37 AM
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Bonjour lavocat

J'ai une situation semblable à la vôtre. Je dois faire évoluer mon équippement B&O Beovision 32 DVD, 4 Beolab 3 et 1 Beolab 2. Je ne souhaite pas reprendre une TV B&O, mais bien un écran Samsung et bien sûr conserved mes HP B&O.

Êtes-vous satisfait de la sderniére solution envisagée, à savoir L'adaptateur DIN Vers un cable RCA avec trigger ?

Merci d'avance,

Belgamore
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post #16 of 22 Old 05-10-2014, 05:39 AM - Thread Starter
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Bonjour,

Oui les adaptateurs avec trigger de Av-connection.dk fonctionnent très bien. Ils délivrent c'est vrai le courant 12V du trigger de mon préampli, alors que B&O prévoit 5V, mais manifestement les enceintes B&O acceptent très bien le trigger 12V. Mes Beolab1 ont parfaitement fonctionné 6 mois, et mes récentes Beolab 9 fonctionnent tout aussi bien. Pour un 5.1 le site av-connection vous vend des kits/sets avec 4 adaptateurs, 1 pour les 2 frontales, 1 pour les 2 surrounds, 1 pour la centrale et 1 pour le sub. Leur site est aussi en anglais on peut changer la langue, et les prix en euro (on peut choisir la devise). Livré en 4 jours!

Ajoutez une télécommande Hamony Ultimate, et vous aurez une très belle installation!

NB: cela ne me regarde pas mais vu les prix à la baisse je ne peux que vous conseiller le plasma Samsung 64F8500, c'est aussi bon qu'un ZT60...

Cdlt lavocat
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post #17 of 22 Old 05-10-2014, 10:22 AM
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Re-bonjour,

Je vais commander les adaptateurs de ce pas. Concernant le pre-ampli je vais tout de même me renseigner que la différence de voltage ne risque pas d'endommager l'électronique du HP. Je viens de remplacer l'électronique de l'un des Beolab 3 pour un coût de près de 700€. Au fait si chaque HP ou groupe de HP a son branchement de trigger, comment avez-vous connecté ces derniers au pré-ampli qui je pense n'a qu'un seul branchement de trigger?

Pour l'écran, je vais probablement prendre en Samsung LED car j'ai lu que la technologie plasma convient moins bien pour les piéces lumineuses et avec des fenêtres, ce qui mon cas.

Merci pour les Infos et conseils.

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post #18 of 22 Old 05-10-2014, 01:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Bonsoir,

Bien sûr, 700 € pour un des Beolab 3, c'est le prix d'un BL3 en second hand... Peut-être devriez-vous poser la question au fabriquant des adaptateurs? Leur service client est très réactif.

Pour les triggers:

1) pour l'écoute stéréo/2.1: trigger1 = 2 frontales + sub
2) pour le 5.1: trigger2 = center + surround.

Enfin juste pour le tv: le plasma Samsung a été noté le plus lumineux de tous face à ses rivaux ZT60 et VT60. Je l'ai installé dans notre salon où nous avons 2 murs sur les 4 qui sont entièrement en baies vitrées (16 m de baies vitres sur un séjour de 60m2). Aucun souçi... PS: je ne travaille pas pour Samsung... rolleyes.gif

Si vous rester sur le LED peut-être lIFA 2014 à Berlin, pour les ULED...? tongue.gif

PPS: si av-connection vous répond sur cette question 5V/12V en trigger, merci de nous partager leurs réponses?

PPPS: pour relier 2 adaptateurs sur un trigger de préampli, utiliser un splitter mini-jack mono comme celui_çi: http://www.amazon.fr/Belkin-F8Z274EA-Rockstar-Splitter-audio/dp/B0017VKV2I/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1399753201&sr=1-1&keywords=Belkin+Rockstar+Splitter+audio
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post #19 of 22 Old 05-11-2014, 07:26 AM
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J'ai lu dans deux forums différents des réflexions quant au niveau de voltage du trigger. Personnelement je compte bien placer un convertisseur 12V vers 5V.

Voici un des forums, l'autre est en norvegiens et la traduction automatique n'est pas terrible.
http://archivedforum.beoworld.org/forums/t/42942.aspx
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post #20 of 22 Old 05-24-2014, 12:32 AM
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Voici l'information de l'amplificateur ICEPower qui équippement les Beolab 3. Le niveau de voltage pour l'allumage devrait es trouver dans Le tableau électrique, mais j'avoue ne pas m'y retrouver. En espérant que cela puisne vous aided.
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/files/solutions/icepower250adata.pdf

La même information existe pour l'amplificateur en version 500W
http://www.icepower.bang-olufsen.com/files/solutions/icepower500adata.pdf
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post #21 of 22 Old 06-02-2014, 07:35 AM
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Bonjour lavocat,

Je trouvé encore d'autres références sur un site danios suggérant que le voltage du trigger doit être compris entre 2,5 et 5 volts. Un home averti en faut deux!

http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hifi4all.dk%2Fforum%2Fforum_posts.asp%3FTID%3D71963%26TPN%3D1&sl=da&tl=en&hl=&ie=UTF-8

Bien à vous,

Belgamore
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post #22 of 22 Old 06-03-2014, 01:01 AM
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Bonjour,

Plus de peur que de mal. Le support de AV-Connection m'a confirmé que les Beolab ont besoin d'un trigger entre 3,75 et 4,90 volts et que leur adaptateurs ont un réducteur intégré.

Saludos,

Belgamore
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