Audyssey and speaker levels - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 22 Old 04-13-2013, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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I have Denon AVR-2113Ci, set of Paradigm Monitor series 7 (Monitor 11 for fronts, Center 3, Minis for Surronds) and Rythmik LV12R Subwoofer.

Now the calibration and results questions.

First I set the Bass Extenion on the sub to Mid and Audyssey set my sub to +3.5dB.
Then I set the Bass Extenion to Low (as Brian from Rythmik suggested) and Audyssey set my sub to -8.5dB.
What worries me is that -8.5dB is pretty close to the limit (+/- 12 dB).
What can I do?

Another thing is Audyssey keeps setting my front and surrounds to Large. I manually change them to Small and set the crossovers to 80Hz.

Now my levels are:

Front L -8dB
Front R -7.5dB
Center -9.5dB
Sub -8.5dB
Sur. L -6dB
Sur. R -6dB

All levels are negative, and all are pretty far from recommended range +/- 3dB.
What am I doing wrong?

Thanks
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post #2 of 22 Old 04-13-2013, 06:00 PM
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There is nothing inherently wrong with your current settings to include the sub setting of -8.5db as long as the sub fires when the AVR sends a signal which is one of the reasons why -3.5db is a recommended setting as it ensures the AVR will send a strong enough signal for those subs that otherwise may have problems when the sub is set to "Auto". Also note that getting close to -3.5db only really applies to the sub, not the speakers. As long as neither the sub nor the speakers are pegged at +/-12db then you're good to go.

However, one thing to figure out would be why the AVR is reducing the sub volume (ie. +3.5db to -8.5db) when you are reducing the sub gain as it should be the other way around ... as you reduce the sub gain the AVR should increase the sub volume. Most subs that start at mid level will produce a sub volume of -12db which is why the suggestion is to reduce it to 1/3 or 1/4 in order to increase the volume level to closer to -3.5db.

The AVR sets your speakers to LARGE simply because they can receive a signal below 50hz so reset them to SMALL/80Hz as is recommended after Audyssey has completed as it ignores any settings made prior to its running. Also note that your questions and many more are answered in the Audyssey 101/FAQ Guide linked in my sig.

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post #3 of 22 Old 04-13-2013, 06:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for quick reply

Here is the back of my sub
http://www.rythmikaudio.com/download/LV12R_quickguide.pdf

When you say gain do you mean volume? I'm new to terminology.
The volume was set to 12 o'clock in both cases.
The only thing I changed is Bass Extension (second from right)
When it was set to MID the AVR set the sub level to +3.5dB
When it was set to LOW the AVR set the sub level to -8.5dB
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post #4 of 22 Old 04-14-2013, 05:22 AM
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So then the "bass extension" is a separate setting and is best left in one position (ie. LOW) and let the AVR handle the bass processing. Set the "volume" (gain) to about 10 o'clock and run Audyssey again which should bring the sub volume down closer to -3.5db.

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post #5 of 22 Old 04-14-2013, 09:40 AM - Thread Starter
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I will run Audyssey again with volume set to 10 o'clock as you suggested.

What about the speakers? Is it OK for the their levels to be -9dB?

Thanks
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post #6 of 22 Old 04-14-2013, 10:51 AM
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Yup ... although no way of adjusting them anyway unless using an external amp.

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post #7 of 22 Old 04-20-2013, 01:46 PM - Thread Starter
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I rerun Audyssey setting the sub volume to 10 o'clock.
Now my levels are:

Front L -7.5dB
Front R -7.5dB
Center -9.0dB
Sub -2.5dB
Surr. L -5.5dB
Surr. R. -6.0dB

Do they look OK, better?
Thanks
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post #8 of 22 Old 04-20-2013, 02:04 PM
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Yup. Good to go. smile.gif

Now if you want more or less sub volume, use the remote control to select the "Subwoofer Level" setting from the AVR's GUI.

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post #9 of 22 Old 04-20-2013, 02:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Cool, thanks a lot.
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post #10 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 03:35 PM - Thread Starter
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What I noticed is when the Bass Extension was set o Mid the AVR was boosting the bass too much (the level was +3.5dB), to the point when the male voices were redirected to the subwoofer.
Now the Bass Extension is set to Low and it seems the bass is too subtle (the new level is -2.5dB). I don't wanna boost the sub level in the AVR menu, it will screw up the whole "reference" level calibration.
May be the new level is more correct but it seems there is no enough bass.
Any thoughts?
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post #11 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 03:53 PM
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Simply boost the sub level a few db using the "Subwoofer Level" setting on the AVR GUI.

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post #12 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 03:57 PM - Thread Starter
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That will screw up reference level calibration and will make it preference, according to Audyssey website.
Also it will supposedly mess up Dynamic Volume
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post #13 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:19 PM
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It won't affect Audyssey at all, and although it will change "reference" to "preference", if your preference is something other than reference, than go with what you prefer, after all, it is your setup. smile.gif

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post #14 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:36 PM - Thread Starter
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Well, before when it was boosting the bass too much it was "reference" too, wasn't it?
So which "reference" is correct then? I'm confused.
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post #15 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:39 PM
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Doesn't really matter. In the end, it's whatever preference settings you prefer that you will keep.

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post #16 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Then what's the point of implementing an automatic EQ system if it so inconsistent?
I was really hoping it would do "wonders". They at audyssey say "reference" is "reference" no matter what.
So there is no way to make this work correctly (as it supposed to and as advertised) other than tweaking to your taste?
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post #17 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:49 PM
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Running Audyssey will get you reference. Make adjustments to suit your preference. Can't be any more direct than that.

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post #18 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 04:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply,
My point is I ran audyssey the first time and got "reference" with too much bass
The second time I ran the same audyssey changing very little on the sub and got another "reference" with too little bass.
Forget about my preference for a moment. Let's say I don't have a preference, I just hear differences.
Which "reference" is the correct one? With too much bass or too little?
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post #19 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 05:47 PM
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As suggested in the beginning of this thread, the idea is to turn off ALL processing on the sub and let let the AVR control bass management. You are disregarding this recommendation by adjusting the Bass Extension setting.

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post #20 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 07:17 PM - Thread Starter
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The Bass Extension has 3 positions: Low (the sub will go down to 20Hz), Mid ( 22hz) and Hi (24hz)
For HT Rythmik recommends to set the extension to Low. The first time I set it to Mid by mistake.
I can't disable or enable that particular setting. It is just there, I just have to set it to something.

My concern is changing that little thing (the difference is 2Hz) should not make that much of difference.
Supposedly no matter what Audyssey should get a correct calibration to "reference" level. And that "reference" should not "feel" dramatically different (boosted or reduced bass).
So it is either Audyssey is not doing a good job or I am doing something wrong.
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post #21 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 07:58 PM
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A large number of people find the bass level is to low for their tastes after running Audyssey. These people will turn up the sub level on the AVR 2, 3, or more db to suit their preference. That is a fairly common thing to do.

When you change the Bass extension control on the sub, you are changing the FR of the sub. Audyssey tries to set filters to compensate for acoustic problems with your room. So, when you change the FR of the sub, you could be adding to a problem frequency in your room that Audyssey can't overcome, and you're hearing that as too much bass.

Set the Bass Extension to low, bump up the volume on the sub a little, run Audyssey. If you feel the bass is a bit low, bump it up a few db in the AVR so you are happy with it...and enjoy....

Just remember, it's your system, your room....Adjust it until you are happy with how it sounds....

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post #22 of 22 Old 04-26-2013, 10:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by isagreg View Post

The Bass Extension has 3 positions: Low (the sub will go down to 20Hz), Mid ( 22hz) and Hi (24hz)
For HT Rythmik recommends to set the extension to Low. The first time I set it to Mid by mistake.
I can't disable or enable that particular setting. It is just there, I just have to set it to something.

My concern is changing that little thing (the difference is 2Hz) should not make that much of difference.
Supposedly no matter what Audyssey should get a correct calibration to "reference" level. And that "reference" should not "feel" dramatically different (boosted or reduced bass).
So it is either Audyssey is not doing a good job or I am doing something wrong.

As I suggested at the top of this thread, you should leave the setting at LOW and make any additional sub volume level adjustments as necessary using the AVR after running Audyssey. It's best to not make any further adjustments for at least 2-3 weeks so you can learn if you can adjust to the level the mixer intended. If after that time you still want more bass, simply bump up the sub level using the AVR GUI.

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