Does ANYONE have current AppleTV working with Onkyo 805? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 10 Old 04-19-2013, 05:45 AM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

As you might have seen in another post of mine, I can't get the video from a current AppleTV (with current firmware) to work with my Onkyo TX SR805 receiver (video through HDMI to my projector). After startup, I get to the shiny Apple, but then the video signal cuts out. Works fine directly connected to my Panny AE4000U.

I know my Onkyo does not have the current firmware and I'm wondering if getting that updated would fix things. I've learned that an authorized service center can do it in a day for $95.

Before I have this done, I just want to see if ANYONE has a configuration like this working? Or (as I've seen suggested elsewhere) is the HDMI chip in the 805 just too old? It would help me make a decision on the update.

Thanks!

Tiger
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post #2 of 10 Old 04-19-2013, 04:50 PM
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You should be able to do the firmware update yourself. All you need to do is find the correct firmware, burn it to a cd or dvd, and "play" it on a dvd player that is connected to your 805 via optical.

I used to have a 705 and I could not get my 705 to work with 3 different ATI cards. It worked perfectly with older 4xxx series cards but nothing newer.

Not sure if this would work but, since the Apple TV does not pass HD audio, you could connect the Apple TV directly to your TV and connect an optical cable from the Apple to the 805.
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post #3 of 10 Old 04-19-2013, 06:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Thanks for the note. Audio works fine, it's video at issue. Also, all connections from sources to the projector are through a single HDMI cable (up the wall, through the joists, out the drywall, to the projector) so secondary connections won't work. My understanding is that the burn-a-disc option works for updating firmware for audio elements of the receiver, but not for video elements, which must be done by the RS-232 port, requiring certain versions of "loaders", etc.

I don't mind paying $95 if my next best option (for an equivalent receiver) is $600 or more, but only if there's reason to think that this combination works AT ALL.

So, does ANYONE have a current version AppleTV working with the Onkyo TX SR-805?

Thanks!

Tiger
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post #4 of 10 Old 04-19-2013, 08:23 PM
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before you do anything more, get a short hdmi cable and move the projector closer to the receiver (or the other way around, which ever is easier... probably the projector). If it works, then you have your answer... likely the length of the cable. IF it doesn't, borrow another source... probably a bluray player and try that and see what happens. Odds are high, it is your cable length... more than 25 feet "total" and you are "gambling" that data path is "good".
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post #5 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerninety View Post

Hello,

Thanks for the note. Audio works fine, it's video at issue. Also, all connections from sources to the projector are through a single HDMI cable (up the wall, through the joists, out the drywall, to the projector) so secondary connections won't work. My understanding is that the burn-a-disc option works for updating firmware for audio elements of the receiver, but not for video elements, which must be done by the RS-232 port, requiring certain versions of "loaders", etc.

I don't mind paying $95 if my next best option (for an equivalent receiver) is $600 or more, but only if there's reason to think that this combination works AT ALL.

So, does ANYONE have a current version AppleTV working with the Onkyo TX SR-805?

Thanks!

Tiger

Your understanding of the firmware updates is mostly correct.

The DSP chips are updated via the CD method. The only released update was a fix for the "DTS Bomb", which was caused by a combination of encoding of the DTS HD-MA bitsream during authoring and playback by certain chipsets (Yamaha also used the same chips and had the same issue). DTS made a correction to the encoding algorithm that was supposed to resolve the issue even if one didn't update the DSP chips.

The system firmware has to be updated via the serial port on the back of the 805. If the bootloader is an early enough version, you require a "jig"...a modified serial connector. I can't remember the exact version. Later versions of the bootloader allowed connection via a regular serial cable...I used a cheap Monoprice USB->Serial adapter. I never saw an official list of what was supposedly fixed by the verious firmware updates. Some reported quicker signal lock when changing audio formats, but I didn't notice such a change going from v1.06 (shipped version) to v1.08. I'm not sure when the HDMI firmware update came around since I'm still running v1.01 so it must not have been in the 1.08 system package when I did the update, or it requires separate steps beyond the system firmware.

Bud may be on to something with cable length. You might want to search out posts with AppleTV HDMI issues and see if its possible the AppleTV has a slightly weaker than normal transmitter. Monoprice has relatively inexpensive HDMI switches that include amplifiers if this turns out to be the case.

-Brent
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post #6 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 10:56 AM
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You asked the same question about the Apple TV on the other forum...
We didn't see any response about the suggested workaround.. Have you tried it?
As posted there the Apple TV does not have HDMI certification, and frequently has compatibility issues with earlier AVRs using an HDMI repeater such as the mentioned Onkyo AVR.



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post #7 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 12:14 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good one, and I might find a way to try it.

The HDMI cable IS long, but it's not going to get any shorter, permanently: it's running through my wall and ceiling. I _did_ buy a (supposedly) special cable designed for longer runs from Monoprice; it sends signal in only one direction as a result. Don't know if that makes a difference one way or the other (no pun intended).

The PS3 works fine playing blurays, as does my Verizon box (connected via HDMI). So (given that the PS3 works fine, anyway), I'm still thinking that the problem lies more specifically with the AppleTV connection via the Onkyo. Would you agree?

Thanks,

Tiger
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post #8 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 01:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerninety View Post

Hello,

Thanks for the suggestion, it's a good one, and I might find a way to try it.

The HDMI cable IS long, but it's not going to get any shorter, permanently: it's running through my wall and ceiling. I _did_ buy a (supposedly) special cable designed for longer runs from Monoprice; it sends signal in only one direction as a result. Don't know if that makes a difference one way or the other (no pun intended).

The PS3 works fine playing blurays, as does my Verizon box (connected via HDMI). So (given that the PS3 works fine, anyway), I'm still thinking that the problem lies more specifically with the AppleTV connection via the Onkyo. Would you agree?

Thanks,

Tiger

Hmmm..
Don't really know your entire system/setup..
However early AVRs with HDMI repeaters had limited compatibility with HDMI cables, max run was about 15'. However later AVRs w/HDMI repeaters, the Silicon Image HDMI chip includes a buffer/EQ stage that helped to restore/compensate for longer HDMI cable runs. In our AV installs, for certain systems we have used a wireless 2.4GHz Tx/Rx HDMI combo with positive results, though this active system is significantly more $..

Regarding where the problem or blame lies..confused.gif
Since we have been doing AV installs for many years, analog days, early HDMI and later... My opinion is that here one has to be very, very careful when mixing older Legacy components be it analog or HDMI with later HDMI products. For example, we just updated an AV system we did 6 years ago @ a cost of about $7500. The AVR failed, and the customer wanted to ADD a new AVR, blu-ray player, ATT Universe and Apple TV, but his most expensive investment was a $4K Pioneer Kuro plasma display. The Pioneer display worked great and the customer wanted to keep and use it. We installed/connected via HDMI a Yamaha AVR, Panasonic blu-ray, ATT Universe and Apple TV through the AVR and ran the HDMI Out to the Pioneer, here everything worked fine including the older Pioneer display. Fortunately we have alot of experience with various brands for their HDMI interoperability in our other business doing alot of support/product evaluation/new product development work for some of the primary AVR brands.

IMHO..
The biggest drawback today is that many CE brands crank out multiple components w/HDMI but either bypass entirely the HDMI certification process and/or have inadequate internal testing procedures in place.. Connecting an HDMI source component directly to an HDMI display has significantly less compatibility issues, compared to connecting through an AVR with an HDMI repeater.


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post #9 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 01:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello,

Thanks to your suggestion, I think I figured it out.

As I said, I'd tried direct to the projector, which worked. And I'd even tried the shortest cable I had between the AppleTV and the Onkyo, which didn't.

What I hadn't noticed was that, in my haste to connect my system to the newly installed wiring/projector, I'd used one of the longest HDMI cables I had between the Onkyo and the wall plate. A few minutes ago, I looked and realized that that cable was (neatly) coiled up on the floor next to the receiver.

So, I took the two shortest cables I had (one is about 2 ft and the other is about 4 ft) and used one between the AppleTV and Onkyo and the other between the Onkyo and the wall plate. And, lo and behold, it worked!

For reasons I don't understand, the PS3 and Verizon box were able to punch through the additional distance of the coiled HDMI cable; the AppleTV was not.

Now, I need to go acquire some short HDMI cables!

Thanks for the observation on length. Because the other two components worked fine, I had overlooked that.

Much appreciated!

Tiger
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post #10 of 10 Old 04-20-2013, 01:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigerninety View Post

Hello,

Thanks to your suggestion, I think I figured it out.

As I said, I'd tried direct to the projector, which worked. And I'd even tried the shortest cable I had between the AppleTV and the Onkyo, which didn't.

What I hadn't noticed was that, in my haste to connect my system to the newly installed wiring/projector, I'd used one of the longest HDMI cables I had between the Onkyo and the wall plate. A few minutes ago, I looked and realized that that cable was (neatly) coiled up on the floor next to the receiver.

So, I took the two shortest cables I had (one is about 2 ft and the other is about 4 ft) and used one between the AppleTV and Onkyo and the other between the Onkyo and the wall plate. And, lo and behold, it worked!

For reasons I don't understand, the PS3 and Verizon box were able to punch through the additional distance of the coiled HDMI cable; the AppleTV was not.

Now, I need to go acquire some short HDMI cables!

Thanks for the observation on length. Because the other two components worked fine, I had overlooked that.

Much appreciated!

Tiger


Yup...
HDMI cable length is limited with older HDMI components, something often overlooked
Glad that everything worked out.. 😃

Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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