Denon AVR-3313ci or Denon AVR-X4000 - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 11:23 AM
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So I'll need to set my DVD3930 to output PCM for my SACDs, which will result in all content reaching the AVR, then Audyssey will be applied?

Just upgraded to X4000 from a 3805 I've had since late '05. Very excited.
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post #92 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 11:29 AM
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Correct again. Join us in the Denon AVR-E/X Models thread linked in my sig, reviewing posts #3-6 in that thread for additional helpful information. smile.gif

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post #93 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Most prefer the DSD over HDMI processing as it allows for Audyssey while using the EXT inputs does not.
JD, the reason for my original post, is that I would have thought DSD over HDMI allows for Audyssey. Then I read this post, which supports my original belief. But then later you state that DSD over HDMI is available only in DIRECT or PURE DIRECT modes, both of which disable Audyssey.

If I set my Denon DVD3930 to output LPCM multi ch over HDMI, then all bass mgmt settings become active, suggesting the bass mgmt is now being done by my DVD player, not by the AVR.

Denon Link seems to have changed, seems I cannot use DL output from my 3930 into the X4000, so that's not an option.
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post #94 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 05:18 PM
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Oops! My mistake and that post has since been corrected to reflect my statement in the previous post. As long as you are not using EXT IN (not avail) or DIRECT/PURE DIRECT, then Audyssey and bass management are still enabled on the AVR. And yes, as previously stated the Denon Link HD input will currently only work with the DBT-3313UDCI.

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post #95 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 05:39 PM
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If I choose on my DVD3930, to output multi LPCM (under HDMI audio), then bass management settings become available. Are you saying that even though this is true, that the X4000 will still be handling bass management and applying Audyssey? Regardless of what the BM settings are on the DVD player?

If this is so, then the reason must be because I'm outputting digital (HDMI) rather than analog.

Simply, I'm looking for a way (perhaps the only way) to connect my DVD3930 to my X4000 (and under what setting) to enjoy multi channel layers on my SACDs and DVDAs, while ensuring the AVR handles BM and applies Audyssey. Is it really as simple as, connect via HDMI, and choose multi LPCM under HDMI audio on my DVD?

Thanks, JD.
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post #96 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 06:01 PM
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Yup. LPCM and you're good to go. smile.gif

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post #97 of 154 Old 07-28-2013, 06:52 PM
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Excellent. So the DVD's bass management settings, even though they'll be enabled, must be ignored by the DVD player unless the output is analog?
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post #98 of 154 Old 07-29-2013, 03:57 AM
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If you use HDMI and set the player to LPCM it will decode the DD/DTS 5.1 audio on the DVD to PCM 5.1 which will then pass to the AVR which will then use bass management and Audyssey.

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post #99 of 154 Old 07-29-2013, 01:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

If you use HDMI and set the player to LPCM it will decode the DD/DTS 5.1 audio on the DVD to PCM 5.1 which will then pass to the AVR which will then use bass management and Audyssey.
Except I'll be using the DVD3930 for SACDs and DVDAs only. I'm assuming the same behavior for these types of discs.

The reason the DVDs bass management settings are ignored, I believe, is because I'm outputting a digital signal (HDMI) rather than analog 7.1 out. If analog out, then the player would manage the bass.
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post #100 of 154 Old 07-29-2013, 03:01 PM
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Yes, that is correct.

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post #101 of 154 Old 07-29-2013, 09:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yes, that is correct.
I appreciate your feedback/responses, JD.
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post #102 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 11:43 AM
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JD, well, this may have been an expensive mistake, as I've installed my X4000, and have yet to hear my multi SACD. Seems the 3930 won't outuput multi SACD over HDMI. Options are DL (of course, the player's DL3 isn't compatible w/ the X4000 DL HD), or analog, and the X4000 doesn't have EXT IN.

If I'd known I couldn't play my (considerable) SACD collection, I surely wouldn't have purchased the X4000. Have you heard of any options to convert DL3 to DLHD?
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post #103 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 12:17 PM
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Sorry, but no I have not. frown.gif

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post #104 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 12:32 PM
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Well, I could update my 3930 to an Oppo BDP-103, which does output SACD over HDMI (PCM or DSD).

Can't believe Denon would obsolete DL2/3! The 3930 is/was a high-quality player w/ DL3.
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post #105 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 01:52 PM
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There are a lot of inexpensive players that will stream DSD over HDMI. Sellyour current player to someone interested in the analog output performance and put a few bucks in your pocket.

Hear me now, Listen to me later....
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post #106 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronnie 1.8 View Post

Well, I could update my 3930 to an Oppo BDP-103, which does output SACD over HDMI (PCM or DSD).

Can't believe Denon would obsolete DL2/3! The 3930 is/was a high-quality player w/ DL3.

Not to mention Denon Link 4 as well. frown.gif The 103 is likely your best bet unless you're able to get a good deal on the new Denon DBT-3313UDCI which is currently the only player that uses the new Denon Link HD.

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post #107 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 04:17 PM
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Is there any advantage to DLHD vs HDMI for DSD and/or DVDA? The Oppo is always such a high-performing player, and the Denon will cost more.
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post #108 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 04:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Grooms View Post

There are a lot of inexpensive players that will stream DSD over HDMI. Sellyour current player to someone interested in the analog output performance and put a few bucks in your pocket.
Thanks for the suggestion. I will certainly be selling my mint AVR-3805 receiver and DVD-3930 DVD/DVDA/SACD player.
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post #109 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 05:24 PM
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Not sure why I didn't think of this! I have a 60GB PS3 (fat model) purchased in '07, that plays multichannel SACD over HDMI. Just tested an SACD, and works just fine, with a sample rate of 176 kHz. Will use DVD-3930 for multichannel DVDAs. No need for a new player. That's good.

Although, I'm sure my Blu-ray discs will look better on the new BDP-103 Oppo vs my '07 PS3. Would they sound better? Probably via placebo effect...
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post #110 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 06:06 PM
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Yup, the fat PS3 can do that indeed. smile.gif Note the PS3 can only pass PCM; however, the best sound using either one would come with decoding the DSD to PCM in the player so you can take advantage of Audyssey, so there is unlikely to be any difference in audio quality.

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post #111 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 06:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Yup, the fat PS3 can do that indeed. smile.gif Note the PS3 can only pass PCM; however, the best sound using either one would come with decoding the DSD to PCM in the player so you can take advantage of Audyssey, so there is unlikely to be any difference in audio quality.
Yes, so right now I am decoding to PCM within the PS3, as, like you said, it can only pass PCM.

But I'm confused on the Audyssey comment. You're saying the X4000 applies Audyssey only when receiving PCM, and not when receiving bitstreamed content?
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post #112 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 06:42 PM
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Not bitstreamed DSD, no.

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post #113 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 06:45 PM
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OK, so that must be the only exception under which bitstreamed content does not have Audyssey applied?
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post #114 of 154 Old 08-11-2013, 06:48 PM
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Correct. No issue with DD or DTS.

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post #115 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 12:00 AM
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JD, I purchased an OPPO BDP-103. FYI, the Denon AVR-X4000 does indeed apply Audyssey when the player is set to output DSD over HDMI.
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post #116 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 07:14 AM
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Are you using the HDMI1 (PCM only) or HDMI2(DSD) output on the 103? If using HDMI2 and the 103 is set to DSD then AFAIK, the X4000 would have to be set to DSD Direct to decode the DSD audio track, which as noted in the Owner's manual clip below, does not enable Audyssey.


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post #117 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 10:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

Are you using the HDMI1 (PCM only) or HDMI2(DSD) output on the 103? If using HDMI2 and the 103 is set to DSD then AFAIK, the X4000 would have to be set to DSD Direct to decode the DSD audio track, which as noted in the Owner's manual clip below, does not enable Audyssey.

At first I used HDMI1, and noticed there was no difference when changing the output of the 103 from PCM to DSD. Not even a drop in audio, suggesting no difference in player ouput. And, no change in indicated signal input by the X4000 (it showed PCM regardless). That was a head scratcher. Interestingly, if you choose to output DSD, and use HDMI1, the player still outputs PCM (rather than no audio at all).

Then I read the 103 manual more thoroughly, realized my mistake, and changed to HDMI2. I made no changes to the X4000. I've not even seen where/how one would select DSD Direct as a mode. Pressing INFO on the X4000 showed it was receiving DSD signal. I got down on the floor, looked at the display, and Audyssey was lit.

Incidentally, Audyssey support told me that Audyssey can be applied to any signal type, it's Denon (in this case) that would prevent it's application on one or more signal types.

Just realized, the "DSD Direct" you speak of is likely simply "Direct", which of course would disable Audyssey. Direct, whatever applied to, disables Audyssey., i.e., 2-channel Pandora in Direct mode would disable Audyssey. So, if the 103 is outputting DSD over HDMI, and you choose Direct, that would disable Audyssey. But that would be like applying Direct to a Dolby Digital signal - it's not decoded. No idea what would happen if you applied Direct to Dolby Digital, or DTS HD MA.

So, no, if the 103 is set to DSD over HDMI for SACD, then the X4000 does not have to set to DSD Direct. Rather, the X4000 simply decodes the bitstreamed DSD signal, and it sounds awesome. Although I couldn't hear any difference between the player outputting DSD vs outputting PCM.
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post #118 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 11:32 AM
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BTW, if I do end up permanently using dual HDMI output on the 103 (it's not clear to me if using dual HDMI out is a beneficial option, or is it an option for use only when one wants 3D and has a non-3D receiver, or for outputting to two displays - I've posted in the Blu-ray forum), is the X4000 capable of using input A for video and input B for audio? I was unable to find such a function. I'm pretty sure my AVR3805 was capable of that.
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post #119 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 05:45 PM
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The dual HDMI output feature is designed to pass the video to the TV and HD audio to an HDMI 1.3 AVR.

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post #120 of 154 Old 08-17-2013, 07:51 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdsmoothie View Post

The dual HDMI output feature is designed to pass the video to the TV and HD audio to an HDMI 1.3 AVR.
Okay, that's helpful. Thank you.
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