Do amps matter? Blind amplifier testing GTG. - AVS Forum
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:18 PM - Thread Starter
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I've always wondered if you can tell the difference between amps and if there is an audible difference between a separate amp and receiver - if levels are kept below clipping... and now I'm going to find out. smile.gif

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472180/do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg


-edit-

I edited this after post #9


Please post all comments to the GTG thread linked below



http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472180/do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg#post_23300536


Thanks! I wanted to make people aware of the blind test but it will be easier to keep all discussion in one place. smile.gif
I will occasionally bump this thread so more members can see it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:29 PM
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I've offered this up a couple times...including a ring in my backyard for the fist-fights that are all-but guaranteed to erupt over the equipment being measured, the measurement equipment, the room, the methodology, or even the results themselves of course. Anyone feel free to add to the list, lmao.

Have a blast, my friend. I'm sure AVS attendees will keep it non-violent. tongue.gifbiggrin.gif

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Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

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Old 05-10-2013, 12:38 PM
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How bout XT vs XT32 while you guys are at it? Wouldn't take long. One XT unit vs an XT32, level matched, with the identical speaker pair. Just run the mains in stereo.

Now THAT would be interesting to me.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 05-10-2013, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Oh, I probably should mention my own bias going in:

In the past I had always been of the belief that amps sound the same as long as they aren't clipping. However, a long time ago I did try a separate amp with my Magnepans and I thought I could tell a difference especially at louder volumes.

The last couple weeks I've had a Crown xls 200 that I borrowed from Archaea hooked up to my mains and I swear I can tell a difference. However, I won't be positive until I can identify it blind.

I am coming into this with a completely open mind... well maybe not completely. I kind of hope that you can tell a difference below clipping levels because I like gear and it would be fun to experiment with different amps and find one I like. Sounds stupid because it means spending more money, but I can't help it.
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Old 05-10-2013, 12:53 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mastermaybe View Post

How bout XT vs XT32 while you guys are at it? Wouldn't take long. One XT unit vs an XT32, level matched, with the identical speaker pair. Just run the mains in stereo.

Now THAT would be interesting to me.


James

I'm definitely open to this, sounds like a good idea.

Ha, everything takes a long time at a GTG though. smile.gif
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:37 PM
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Now this should be really interesting!

Carp, you're a brave man... you realise that if you don't get the procedure spot on (or clearly state any limitations of same), when the results don't fall the way people are "comfortable" with, nit-picking the methodology after the event will likely be the focus, rather than reflecting on what the results of the day generally indicate. Nah! That wouldn't happen, would it? biggrin.gif

Think I can see where James is going with the XT -v- XT32 idea (ie. that's where the real audible difference is, right?) but it looks like another layer of complexity to me. Perhaps for another day (Part 2?).

I've got a few questions/comments on the set-up. Would you rather them here or in the other thread? Not sure of the etiquette. smile.gif
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Old 05-10-2013, 04:49 PM
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XT vs XT32 involves two different receivers

I've got a TX-NR 1007 Audyssey Multi EQ XT, and Mr Smithers has a TX-NR 3009 with Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32, as well as Stitch1 has a TX-NR 818 with Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32.... So we've got the receivers to do it out of the attendees thus far - but Audyssey calibrates for a bubble or a seat, and there are a 'crap ton' of variables in the calibration. That sounds like a better meet for a few guys in a small sweet spot with VERY few external variables.

My vote is veto that idea for this meet and try it at a different time. The two ideas are very different and a bit oppossing. The more people involved/seats measured/room variance and noise - the less likely you are to determine how much difference there truly is between those two techs.


A/B'ing amps with a simple switch button that lets you immediately compare sound quality at level matched volumes? That sounds very workable to me. I think the KISS principle applies here. wink.gif

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Old 05-10-2013, 06:00 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GIEGAR View Post

I've got a few questions/comments on the set-up. Would you rather them here or in the other thread? Not sure of the etiquette. smile.gif

Good point, I think I'll occasionally bump this thread but ask people to make comments in the thread that is linked.
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Please post all comments to the GTG thread linked below

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472180/do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg#post_23300536


Thanks! I wanted to make people aware of the blind test but it will be easier to keep all discussion in one place. smile.gif
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Old 05-10-2013, 06:10 PM - Thread Starter
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GEIGAR check the other thread, I replied to your above post there - thanks.
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Old 05-11-2013, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

XT vs XT32 involves two different receivers

I've got a TX-NR 1007 Audyssey Multi EQ XT, and Mr Smithers has a TX-NR 3009 with Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32, as well as Stitch1 has a TX-NR 818 with Audyssey Multi EQ XT 32.... So we've got the receivers to do it out of the attendees thus far - but Audyssey calibrates for a bubble or a seat, and there are a 'crap ton' of variables in the calibration. That sounds like a better meet for a few guys in a small sweet spot with VERY few external variables.

My vote is veto that idea for this meet and try it at a different time. The two ideas are very different and a bit oppossing. The more people involved/seats measured/room variance and noise - the less likely you are to determine how much difference there truly is between those two techs.


A/B'ing amps with a simple switch button that lets you immediately compare sound quality at level matched volumes? That sounds very workable to me. I think the KISS principle applies here. wink.gif

The thing is the room variables that exist for an audyssey comparo are identical to those for the amplifier abx (assuming that's what will take place)- and really it's those room variables that strike at the heart at what they these techs are charged with navigating in the first place.

It should be just as quick and easy to switch between 2 avrs as it it would be with amplifiers. Matter of fact: outside of running audyssey for either (which could be done well in advance) it shouldn't take an additional second.

How the techs operate (very similarly, by the way) are inherent to the performance they yield. One seat for both.

It's ok if people choose not to do it. I just don't want people to think it would be some kind of huge production or that the results could not be very much scientifically valid.

And I think there could actually be some differences heard...really, I'd expect as much. I'd just be more interested too earn what people actually prefer...once the "upgrade bias" is stamped out thanks to the nature of valid testing.

James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 05-11-2013, 04:34 AM
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Oops, sorry carp.


James

Actual phone call (see pic to left):

 

Tech (responding to laughter): "I'm sorry sir, did I miss something?"

Me: "Yeah, a case of Diet Mountain Dew walking across my living room."

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Old 05-11-2013, 05:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

GEIGAR check the other thread, I replied to your above post there - thanks.

Roger that carp.
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Old 05-11-2013, 06:48 AM
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This is a good idear but my question is are you going to watch a movie at reference with both. On music it can see which one goes the loudest without breaking up, but with movies at reference levels do you gain anything.
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Old 05-11-2013, 10:57 AM
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FWIW I am one of those people who does think he can hear the differences in amps but not in speaker wire or power cords. Can't wait to see how the test comes out.
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Old 05-13-2013, 07:26 AM - Thread Starter
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Shameless bump. smile.gif

I'm really hoping to find someone that has a tube amp or class A amp.

Invitation still wide open, PM me if interested.



Please post any replies or discussion to the GTG thread:


http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472180/do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg#post_23300536
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Old 05-13-2013, 03:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by carp View Post

I'm definitely open to this, sounds like a good idea.

Ha, everything takes a long time at a GTG though. smile.gif

Take a listen to a well-balanced system with Audyssey OFF and then compare with it ON...
Listen carefully to the low frequencies and the highs, when Audyssey is OFF the audio has more punch and sounds more natural..
We install and sell alot of AVRs that include Audyssey (Integra and Denon) and in many instances to satisfy the listener we go in and reverse some of the Audyssey settings.
It is most unfortunate, that no publication or research group has chosen to do an indepth comparison of the various Room EQ schemes, they could possibly report back more preference for it being OFF than ON... 😳
I concede it may be useful for delay and level settings but for X-Overs and EQ boosts/cuts it may sound better with these OFF or done manually.
Just because the marketing/advertising/sales guys tell you it sounds better with the Room EQ ON they may just be pushing for the sale... 😠


Just my $0.02... 👍😉
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Old 05-18-2013, 07:23 AM - Thread Starter
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Another bump.


I hope this quick switching idea works out, check out the details here:

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1472180/do-amps-matter-kansas-city-blind-amp-comparison-gtg/30#post_23329081


I still have room available for anyone interested in coming to the gtg - ha, especially if you have a class A amp or tube amp!! biggrin.gif
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