The Perfect Receiver ... Marantz SR7005, Yamaha RX-A2020 ... or is Denon 4311ci the best there is? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 10:11 AM - Thread Starter
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After spending $4,000 on Home Theater equipment, reading hundreds of posts on 5 different forums I learned that once you upgrade to Audiophile level speakers/sub ... all other components start to matter .... one of the biggest one I found to be is a GOOD RECEIVER.

I so far tested Onkyo 818, Yamaha RX-A2020, Marantz SR7005.

Each one has it's pros and cons. Some sound softer, some more harsh, some do great job with surround, some are not so great. Some may be better than others but overdo on room correction and end up sounding blend.

My question .............

I hear all the great talk about Denon 4311ci. I don;t want to be cheap, save $500 on a receiver and not get the best out of my speakers.

I am running a 5.1 system. Do not plan on doing 9.1 or 9.2 or 7.1/7.2 or even 5.2. I am OK with my 5.1 for now.

If I spend a bit more than what Marantz SR7005 costs and about the same as Yamaha RX-A2020 on a new Denon 4311ci ... will I have the father of them all?????

I've been shopping for a receiver for over 2 months now and I want to be done with it.

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Panasonic TH50PX60U, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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post #2 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 11:48 AM
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The 818 and the 4311 both have XT32 so the difference in sound won't be much. The 4311 has SubEQ HT which the 818 does not but that's for eqing multiple subs so if you don't have 2 subs that probably won’t affect you. Also the new X4000 would be my choice over the 4311 unless you have 4 ohm speakers or are planning on going 11.1. The X4000 has XT32 and SubEQ HT along with Audyssey LFC and a few other new features the 4311 doesn’t have. You can probably find the X4000 cheaper as well. The Marantz 7005 is made by the same company as Denon it compares to the 3313 as it only has MultEQ XT. I don't have any experience with the Yamaha so I can't help you there.



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post #3 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 12:22 PM
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Have you considered separates? You may want to read reviews of the Emotiva UMC-200 and also their XPA-5 amp. Just another thought.
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post #4 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 12:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Have you considered separates? You may want to read reviews of the Emotiva UMC-200 and also their XPA-5 amp. Just another thought.

+1 Once you start pushing $1K, separates are the way to go IMO.
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post #5 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 12:48 PM
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Originally Posted by rnatalli View Post

+1 Once you start pushing $1K, separates are the way to go IMO.
+1 more....and Emotiva is running a sale on their Sherbourn line right now that will let you scoop up the UMC200 for $100
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post #6 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 02:07 PM - Thread Starter
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not interested in separates. Heard too many times that it doesn't make sound much better unless you got speakers that need extra power from a stand alone amp OR room big enough that speakers need to be workhorses to fill the room with sound.

I am OK with going A/V Receiver.

It's just that I don't know if I should add Denon 4311 into the mix

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post #7 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 02:15 PM
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How about Pioneer's new D3 amped receivers?
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post #8 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 02:26 PM
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If you are looking for reliability, sound quality, and are going to keep the unit for 3+ years, the 4311 can't be beat. You also get 9 amps-problems with one of them, just re-assign another. You get a 3 year warranty, if purchased from an authorized reseller. If you are worried about the 4K video scare-than look at something else. These units are conservatively rated and very well constructed-all 38+pounds. I own one, and am interested in equipment longevity-performance-and reliability-4311 works for me.
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post #9 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 02:51 PM
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Have you considered the Denon X4000 ?

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post #10 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 03:51 PM
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I just went from the 3312ci to the 4520 and love it. A little getting used to over the 3312. Plenty of power. I am running a 5.2 with front JTR Noesis 212's and no need for an amp with this set up.

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post #11 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 04:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

After spending $4,000 on Home Theater equipment, reading hundreds of posts on 5 different forums I learned that once you upgrade to Audiophile level speakers/sub ... all other components start to matter .... one of the biggest one I found to be is a GOOD RECEIVER.

I so far tested Onkyo 818, Yamaha RX-A2020, Marantz SR7005.

Each one has it's pros and cons. Some sound softer, some more harsh, some do great job with surround, some are not so great. Some may be better than others but overdo on room correction and end up sounding blend.

My question .............

I hear all the great talk about Denon 4311ci. I don;t want to be cheap, save $500 on a receiver and not get the best out of my speakers.

I am running a 5.1 system. Do not plan on doing 9.1 or 9.2 or 7.1/7.2 or even 5.2. I am OK with my 5.1 for now.

If I spend a bit more than what Marantz SR7005 costs and about the same as Yamaha RX-A2020 on a new Denon 4311ci ... will I have the father of them all?????

I've been shopping for a receiver for over 2 months now and I want to be done with it.

I think the 4311 with the Audyssey 32 room correction would definitely be a good bet for you. I know for a fact that you could probably snatch up a Denon 4520 from here at AVS Science store for a smokin hot price. If the 4520 doesn't cut it for you, then separates would be your next option.
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post #12 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 06:23 PM
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For "audiophile level" receivers you may also want to consider brands such as ... Anthem, Cambridge Audio, McIntosh, Outlaw Audio. B&K, NAD, Rotel, Adcom ... and on and on

The lazy man finds the easiest way ... Ben Franklin
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post #13 of 59 Old 05-21-2013, 08:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

After spending $4,000 on Home Theater equipment, reading hundreds of posts on 5 different forums I learned that once you upgrade to Audiophile level speakers/sub ... all other components start to matter .... one of the biggest one I found to be is a GOOD RECEIVER.

I so far tested Onkyo 818, Yamaha RX-A2020, Marantz SR7005.

Each one has it's pros and cons. Some sound softer, some more harsh, some do great job with surround, some are not so great. Some may be better than others but overdo on room correction and end up sounding blend.

My question .............

I hear all the great talk about Denon 4311ci. I don;t want to be cheap, save $500 on a receiver and not get the best out of my speakers.

I am running a 5.1 system. Do not plan on doing 9.1 or 9.2 or 7.1/7.2 or even 5.2. I am OK with my 5.1 for now.

If I spend a bit more than what Marantz SR7005 costs and about the same as Yamaha RX-A2020 on a new Denon 4311ci ... will I have the father of them all?????

I've been shopping for a receiver for over 2 months now and I want to be done with it.

Have you considered the Yamaha RX-A3020.? It is what I bought to replace my DENON 4311ci which I had for a little over a year. I had had my room corrected with Audyssey up to 32 positions. I only used the DENON as pre-amp. It was good. I decided o go back to Yamaha and found that the 8-point positions YPAO offers on A3020 sound better to my ears and I am very happy with it. The bass sound deeper and tighter, I did not have to tweak it.
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post #14 of 59 Old 05-22-2013, 07:16 AM - Thread Starter
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OK, UPDATE

So, tested Yamaha RX-A2020 and hooked my Marantz SR7005 back. Here are the differences I heard..........


For regular TV
Marantz is wayyyy better. Voices sound more natural, deep, full. Very, very nice.

For Blu-Ray movies
I got to admit .... surround, bass management, sound detail and overall feel ... Yamaha beats Marantz. It just feels like it's on a different level.
One thing that Marantz did better however is ... dialog is more natural. Yamaha makes dialog sound kinda weird. If you don't use their Dialog adjustment (magnify) it's OK ... if you use Yamaha's Dialog level increase (1, 2, 3) you hear dialog better but it just feels amplified ... not so natural.

For FLAC/WAV/MP3 music through CD Player (Analog)
Seems like Yamaha is brighter and thus it feels as if there is more detail and sound is just nicer. Yamaha's option to play ALL CHANNELS music is great. I know many don't like that option on other brand receivers but it just works nice with Yamaha. They know how to make it still sound right. Marantz is not so great ... I use 2.1 Stereo on it. Today what I'll do is ... I'll try to come close to sound Yamaha had by turning EQ OFF (it dimmed down my tremble due to poor room acoustics) ... thus maybe it made it sound toooo dark and bassy. Maybe if I turn Audyssey EQ off I'll get my tremble the way it should sound and add a little more level increase to my sub to make sure it doesn't feel tooo bright.


RESULT.

I wish I could merge these 2 units together, pick things that are good from each one and have 1 awesome receiver.
I was surprised but for movies .... Yamaha felt like it's a big step up receiver ..... it did however bombed on dialog ... but sound effect management and detail..... nice.


NEXT STEPS.
Yesterday ordered Denon 4311ci
Let's see what it can do.

If all fails with Denon ... maybe Yamaha RX-A2010 (previous model) will do good.

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post #15 of 59 Old 05-22-2013, 07:38 AM
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IMO in order to compete with the 4311 you may need to step up to the Yamaha V3xxx series. IIRC correctly these are the Yamaha models that do add sub correction to YPAO. I'm a major Yamaha fanboy due to their sound and dependability. However at this time I'm using a H/K 7550HD and would not trade it for any AVR at this time. I am looking very seriously at the Emotiva UMC-200 and the Sherbourne PA5-200. I've always wanted separates and these two cost about the same as the 4311 or the Yamaha's. I do have a Yamaha RX-A3000 sitting in its box due to the H/K. Good luck with the 4311. It is impressive for the cost.
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post #16 of 59 Old 05-22-2013, 07:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vzphoneman View Post

For "audiophile level" receivers you may also want to consider brands such as ... Anthem, Cambridge Audio, McIntosh, Outlaw Audio. B&K, NAD, Rotel, Adcom ... and on and on

Some "audiophile level" receivers have crappy room correction like the Audyssey 2EQ on the Cambridge Audio Azur 751R.
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post #17 of 59 Old 05-22-2013, 06:25 PM
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How did we ever survive the "dark ages" before room correction! To me room correction is far from the most important thing to consider in a receiver. cool.gif

The lazy man finds the easiest way ... Ben Franklin
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post #18 of 59 Old 05-22-2013, 08:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vzphoneman View Post

How did we ever survive the "dark ages" before room correction! To me room correction is far from the most important thing to consider in a receiver. cool.gif

The same way we survived before HD. Standard def looked good until HD came out but now nobody would chose a standard def tv over an HDTV. That's the way technology goes.



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post #19 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 06:43 AM - Thread Starter
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The more I look into this the more I realize that I may be the happiest with older receiver without the bells and whistles. I don't need 9.2, I don't need 4K or 3D, I don't have zones ... I have a 5.1 and I want great sound.

I played around with my Marantz SR7005 again .... trying to tweak it's settings to come close to sound I heard from Yamaha RX-A2020 in terms of bass management, crisp sound clarity all in movies and ... nothing. It just can't do what Yamaha did. It still sounds nice for TV viewing and dialog is good but surround, depth, little detail and bass ... Marantz just doesn't compare to Yamaha.

I have Denon 4311 on the way ... coming in today. So let's see what I can get out of it.

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post #20 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

The more I look into this the more I realize that I may be the happiest with older receiver without the bells and whistles. I don't need 9.2, I don't need 4K or 3D, I don't have zones ... I have a 5.1 and I want great sound.

I played around with my Marantz SR7005 again .... trying to tweak it's settings to come close to sound I heard from Yamaha RX-A2020 in terms of bass management, crisp sound clarity all in movies and ... nothing. It just can't do what Yamaha did. It still sounds nice for TV viewing and dialog is good but surround, depth, little detail and bass ... Marantz just doesn't compare to Yamaha.

I have Denon 4311 on the way ... coming in today. So let's see what I can get out of it.

If you like the sound of Yamaha RX-A2020, chances are you might not like what Denon 4311 can offer. I had it for over a year and replaced it with Yamaha RX-A3020. My experience with Denon is pretty much like yours with Marantz, but preferences vary.
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post #21 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 08:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

The more I look into this the more I realize that I may be the happiest with older receiver without the bells and whistles. I don't need 9.2, I don't need 4K or 3D, I don't have zones ... I have a 5.1 and I want great sound.

I played around with my Marantz SR7005 again .... trying to tweak it's settings to come close to sound I heard from Yamaha RX-A2020 in terms of bass management, crisp sound clarity all in movies and ... nothing. It just can't do what Yamaha did. It still sounds nice for TV viewing and dialog is good but surround, depth, little detail and bass ... Marantz just doesn't compare to Yamaha.

I have Denon 4311 on the way ... coming in today. So let's see what I can get out of it.
Hello Pianist 718-I mentioned, in an earlier post reply, that I have a 4311CI. I would caution you to make sure you do the Audyssey XT32 autosetup "By the book"-all 8 microphone positions,before you make any audio judgements-for a fair evaluation. I, myself, only run a 6.1 system,-Oppo 93 bluray-Sony 605 ES CD player-Sony VCR-Pioneer Elite 50" Plasma. I don't use any of the zones except "Main". I purchased the 4311 for hopefully the "long haul"-if I ever want to do 3D, or multizone, I can. We have one other thing in common: my 3 surrounds are HTM200's and my sub is a Rythmik D15SE. Hope the 4311 turns out to be a good experience for you.
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post #22 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 12:47 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Pianist 718-I mentioned, in an earlier post reply, that I have a 4311CI. I would caution you to make sure you do the Audyssey XT32 autosetup "By the book"-all 8 microphone positions,before you make any audio judgements-for a fair evaluation. I, myself, only run a 6.1 system,-Oppo 93 bluray-Sony 605 ES CD player-Sony VCR-Pioneer Elite 50" Plasma. I don't use any of the zones except "Main". I purchased the 4311 for hopefully the "long haul"-if I ever want to do 3D, or multizone, I can. We have one other thing in common: my 3 surrounds are HTM200's and my sub is a Rythmik D15SE. Hope the 4311 turns out to be a good experience for you.
\

Hope so .... :-) but I am trying to compare having a $1,200 4311 receiver vs a 4-5 year old $700 Yamaha RX-Z7 or something similar. It just may be a better deal for me but we'll see. I am having fun comparing these things. Most people don't shop like this. They just look at features and buy. I've so far listened to 3 receivers and starting to pick up on the differences.

Also something to note is ... when you have quality speakers, the different quality receiver has a bigger impact. If I was using cheap speakers, I think the receiver choice would have been easier. But, I am trying to squeeze the life out of my speakers. :-)

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I've read this thread with curiosity, I'm still learning about what-affects-what, and why.

So, in your case, Pianist, you couldn't just step up to a nice, beefy, amp (hooked to the rx-v465's pre-outs) and run your front speakers from there? Would this only give you more power, but not the improvement in sound that you are really looking for?
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I've read this thread with curiosity, I'm still learning about what-affects-what, and why.

So, in your case, Pianist, you couldn't just step up to a nice, beefy, amp (hooked to the rx-v465's pre-outs) and run your front speakers from there? Would this only give you more power, but not the improvement in sound that you are really looking for?
Hello CubicleCrusher-good quality, external amplifiers are supposed to be "transparent" to the signal passed through them-just increase the "gain/power" of the signal passed through-unchanged.
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post #25 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 06:43 PM - Thread Starter
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I've read this thread with curiosity, I'm still learning about what-affects-what, and why.

So, in your case, Pianist, you couldn't just step up to a nice, beefy, amp (hooked to the rx-v465's pre-outs) and run your front speakers from there? Would this only give you more power, but not the improvement in sound that you are really looking for?

Yamaha rx-v465 doesn't have pre outs. You can't connect an amp.

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post #26 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 06:46 PM - Thread Starter
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So latest update .... I just bought a Yamaha RX-V3900 for $600 and also got Denon 4311ci for $1280.
Yamaha is used and Denon is new.

I will get a chance to demo both units in 2 weeks.
What do you guys think? Which one would win?
Is Denon 4311 worth double the price???

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post #27 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 07:14 PM
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Quote:
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So latest update .... I just bought a Yamaha RX-V3900 for $600 and also got Denon 4311ci for $1280.
Yamaha is used and Denon is new.

I will get a chance to demo both units in 2 weeks.
What do you guys think? Which one would win?
Is Denon 4311 worth double the price???

That's a very good price for the yamaha 3900.
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post #28 of 59 Old 05-24-2013, 07:20 PM
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Thread title is, uhh, somewhat misleading...
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post #29 of 59 Old 05-25-2013, 05:00 AM
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Originally Posted by Pianist718 View Post

So latest update .... I just bought a Yamaha RX-V3900 for $600 and also got Denon 4311ci for $1280.
Yamaha is used and Denon is new.

I will get a chance to demo both units in 2 weeks.
What do you guys think? Which one would win?
Is Denon 4311 worth double the price???

Seeing that you seem to favor the sound of the Yamahas my bet goes to the 3900.I don't feel like the 4311 is worth more than twice the price. I do think that you are one of the very few people on this forum that is doing this avr search the right way. Test all in the hunt and then make an experienced decision. Most seem to buy one with the most bells and whistles then come back and gripe because the thing sounds like crap with their speakers. Good luck and enjoy the process.
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post #30 of 59 Old 05-25-2013, 07:11 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by phantom52 View Post

Seeing that you seem to favor the sound of the Yamahas my bet goes to the 3900.I don't feel like the 4311 is worth more than twice the price. I do think that you are one of the very few people on this forum that is doing this avr search the right way. Test all in the hunt and then make an experienced decision. Most seem to buy one with the most bells and whistles then come back and gripe because the thing sounds like crap with their speakers. Good luck and enjoy the process.

thanks,
my only gripe is that I have this 4311 at home right now but it came without the Audyssey mic. That's why they offered to replace with a brand new 4311 at same price as open box $1279.

I do have Audyssey mic from Marantz SR7005 but I hear that you MUST use the mic that came with the receiver. How accurate is that??? Can't I at least try? :-)

Denon AVR 4311ci, Ascend Sierra-1 NrT, Ascend HTM-200 (surrounds), Rythmik F12, Panasonic TH50PX60U, Samsung BD ES6000, Denon DVD-2910 SACD/DVDa, Monster HTS 5100 MKI, Monster Z2 Biwire, Logitech Harmony One, Sennheiser HD600, Schiit Modi/Vali
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Marantz Sr7005 Audio Video Receiver Black , Yamaha Rx A2020 9 2 Channel Network Aventage Av Receiver
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