How much power do I need in an AV Receiver? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 25 Old 05-25-2013, 06:41 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello All,

I need to purchase an AV receiver to power my Fluance speakers:

http://fluance.com/product/SXHTB_5_Speaker_Surround_Sound_Home_Theater_System.eng-9.html

It states that the power handling is 50-160 watts for the fronts and the amp will still need to power the other speakers. I really don't know a ton about home audio and I wanted to get this amp:

Yamaha RX-375
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v375_black_u/?mode=model



Will this receiver be able to provide enough power for my speakers? I read somewhere that if you don't supply enough power you can damage the speakers?

Do I need to worry about that with these speakers or will pretty much any av receiver from a known company do the job?
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post #2 of 25 Old 05-25-2013, 06:45 PM
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1. How big is your room?

2. Will you have a subwoofer?

3. How loud do you plan to play your system?

4. How do you plan to use this receiver? Movies? Gaming? TV?

5. What's your budget?

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post #3 of 25 Old 05-25-2013, 07:09 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello Thanks for taking the time to lend a hand smile.gif

1. Room is combined living room/kitchen space (14' x 14' approx) with vaulted ceilings (11' to 18' at peak)
2. At this point not planning on having a subwoofer but may want to add one on in the future
3. How loud seems a bit subjective but I am guessing by the standards of this forum it would be fairly quiet. I live in an apartment so I would not be blasting the sound system (at least not very often :P)out of respect for my neighbours but the sound proofing is good and I would like to be able to play it at moderate to loud levels (in my Hyundai Sonata with the stock sound system I don't think I have ever listened for an extended period above half on the volume meter)
4. Primarily Movies with some Gaming and Sports Viewing along with listening to music.
5. Would like to spend as little as possible although 300-400 is what I have been aiming for give or take a bit.


I don't care about having tons of HDMI ports or Air play or that type of thing I want to hook up my cable box, possibly an xbox and possibly a PC. So 4 HDMI should be enough.

I mainly care about having good quality video and sound with enough power to safely run everything.
The support for 3D/4K/Audio Return Channel were all things appealed to me on the RX-375.
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post #4 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 03:27 PM - Thread Starter
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If someone could please help me with this would be much appreciated.


The receiver I am looking at buying rates its power as follows:

70W per Channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, 0.09 % THD, 2 ch driven)Discrete amp configuration

But that is only for 2-ch? When all 5 channels are being run it will be much less correct? Won't that put the front speakers at below 60W (they are rated for 60-120 or something like that)? Which is below what they are specced for?

Looking to buy a receiver soon and I don't want to buy more then what I need but I also want to ensure the speakers have enough power and don't get damaged....but these power ratings are very confusing!
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post #5 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 03:46 PM
 
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You raise good concerns, it's important for speakers to not be underpowered for a desired volume level and room size. That Yamaha will indeed drop down to probably around 40 watts when driving all 5 speakers, but that wouldn't harm your speakers unless you had the volume cranked which you won't.

The other thing is it's not very common in a movie to require all speakers to be needing full power. So based on your stated needs and preferences, I'd say you'll be fine with the Yamaha. Any particular reason you're interested in that one?
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post #6 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 03:59 PM
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I checked out fluance website. wow i'm impressed with the prices they've got. especially that XL7F model. it looks like there's a driver on the bottom of it. that's a sub I guess. anybody reviewed this speakers on the audiophile magz/people???? im still on the hunt for a budget friendly 9.1 set.

right now, my choices are, emotiva speakers, HTD, empTEK, and bic. i'll add these babies up too considering the price and the color. very beautiful!

with regards to this thread, maybe you need a little bit of power for your system. how about adding a separate 7 channel amp from emotiva?

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa700 = check this out. for $500 bucks, you couldn't go wrong.

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post #7 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 04:12 PM
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wow! im reading a comment right now from soundstage! Hi-Fi. im beginning to like these speakers........

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post #8 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 04:26 PM
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I think you'll be fine for your stated use with the RX375; now, if you start turning things up to 11 and ignore distortion, yes, you could damage the speakers with the avr (some avr's come with a feature to limit your volume dial, not sure this is one of them or not, might help if you're not the only one using the avr). Your speakers per that link indicate sensitivity of 89dB, you should be able to reach good volume levels within the capability of the amp in the RX375 in any case. Google "spl calculator" if you want to see the differences in amp wattage and sensitivity can make.

jaygax brings up something you might want to consider for the future, and that's the ability to add outboard amplification; this avr from what I see cannot do that, though, you would need pre-outs for each channel and this apparently only has one pre-out, for a sub.

ps Only the mains are 89dB, the others less but don't think it makes a big difference with your stated use...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #9 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 04:39 PM
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I think the best way to go on an AVR budget wise is the Yamaha aventage series. I think the Yamaha RX-a720 (that's their starting model going up) has a PRE out for a separate amplifier support. I got the RX-a1000 for $500 bucks on newegg a couple of years ago. 3 years more or less. still kicking ass until now paired with my adcom 2 channel amp. I've seen $500 deals on aventage 720 and 820 on amazon or ebay I think. well, 500 bucks more I guess. money, money, money! there's always something out there. can't get enough......

start with the aventage series for your avr and get a separate amp after a couple of months or a year later. and oh, you might want to get an AVR that is network capable to read your files on you PC's harddrive. im using ps3 media server. awesome software for my flac collection.

XIM edge, ps3, yamaha RX-A1000, adcom GFAii, polk SDA2a, 65" toshiba LCD......more and more to come.....work, work, work!!!!
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post #10 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 04:43 PM
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lovinthehd, I saw your pics. nice setup with all those toys. I love that wheel for gran turismo! =)

does it come with manual transmission? I got a Logitech wheelset for my ps3 before. sold it to ebay. haven't been using enough because of the call of duty series.

XIM edge, ps3, yamaha RX-A1000, adcom GFAii, polk SDA2a, 65" toshiba LCD......more and more to come.....work, work, work!!!!
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post #11 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 04:47 PM
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Yamaha rx-a820's got the PRE out option. the a720 does not. all of them's network capable.
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post #12 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 05:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygax View Post

lovinthehd, I saw your pics. nice setup with all those toys. I love that wheel for gran turismo! =)

does it come with manual transmission? I got a Logitech wheelset for my ps3 before. sold it to ebay. haven't been using enough because of the call of duty series.

Yes, has manual, paddle shifters, auto stick, more than I have time for...

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #13 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 05:02 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lovinthehd View Post

I think you'll be fine for your stated use with the RX375; now, if you start turning things up to 11 and ignore distortion, yes, you could damage the speakers with the avr (some avr's come with a feature to limit your volume dial, not sure this is one of them or not, might help if you're not the only one using the avr). Your speakers per that link indicate sensitivity of 89dB, you should be able to reach good volume levels within the capability of the amp in the RX375 in any case. Google "spl calculator" if you want to see the differences in amp wattage and sensitivity can make.

jaygax brings up something you might want to consider for the future, and that's the ability to add outboard amplification; this avr from what I see cannot do that, though, you would need pre-outs for each channel and this apparently only has one pre-out, for a sub.

ps Only the mains are 89dB, the others less but don't think it makes a big difference with your stated use...

No specific reason for the Yamaha other then the perceived reliability and 4k passthrough....

I just found this receiver which seems more honest about its power output...claiming 80W per channel (which I think is at all 5 channels running)

Pioneer 5.1 Channel Network Receiver (VSX-823-K)

http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/pioneer-pioneer-5-1-channel-network-receiver-vsx-823-k-vsx-823-k/10241687.aspx


Does this seem like a better choice? It is $400 dollars and at the top of my budget but seems like an overall higher quality avr?
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post #14 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 07:51 PM
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I have a Pioneer 919 (but it seems to have a burrned out hdmi board), and the bench tests I found at the time for all channels driven weren't near the rated power for two channels, think it was in the neighborhood of mid 30's all channels driven 20Hz-20kHz. http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Home/AV-Receivers/Pioneer+Receivers/VSX-823-K they don't really say, but I'd think those are two channel ratings (because FTC says this is okay).

To get into the better amps on avrs you have to go up the pricepoint ladder somewhat, I think most of the lower range avrs like these are going to try and advertise as big a number as possible rather than true bench test results. Not that many years ago you got more conservative amp ratings and beefier amps but now you're going to get more features and connectivity as a tradeoff at the lower price points, with the advent of class D amps maybe that can change again. OTOH what counts is the power to the front three channels more than the surrounds anyways, as the surrounds aren't going to get that much content in the first place with movies or matrixed two channel music (the exception being music actually mixed for multi channel but even then most of the content is in the front end). If worried about it you could look for an avr that has pre-outs and then add a power amp later. Pre-outs often come with avr's just a bit further up the food chain.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #15 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 10:59 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygax View Post

I think the best way to go on an AVR budget wise is the Yamaha aventage series. I think the Yamaha RX-a720 (that's their starting model going up) has a PRE out for a separate amplifier support. I got the RX-a1000 for $500 bucks on newegg a couple of years ago. 3 years more or less. still kicking ass until now paired with my adcom 2 channel amp. I've seen $500 deals on aventage 720 and 820 on amazon or ebay I think. well, 500 bucks more I guess. money, money, money! there's always something out there. can't get enough......

start with the aventage series for your avr and get a separate amp after a couple of months or a year later. and oh, you might want to get an AVR that is network capable to read your files on you PC's harddrive. im using ps3 media server. awesome software for my flac collection.


The 830 aventage series is so expensive! Are my front speakers (50-160 watts) just way more power hungry then most speakers? Seems weird to spend $350 on a surround speaker system and then spend huge dollars on a AV receiver? I really won't be "CRANKING" the volume I just have read that you can damage speakers if you don't provide enough power and I was worried about it....


I have always used my TV speakers before this so I am fairly inexperienced with the whole home audio business!

Do I need to worry about damaging my speakers with a entry level AV receiver?
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post #16 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 11:06 PM
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If you use the volume control judiciously, i.e. don't turn it up further when you hear distortion and back it down a bit from there, you'll be fine. The people who damage their stuff in the manner you're worried about likely turned it up to 11 when their ears said they shouldn't have. Not having a high powered amp/avr is possibly leaving something untapped in your speakers but not likely you're missing much, as you pointed out, they're pretty basic speakers.

"I realize that somebody playing free music isn't as commercial as a hamburger stand. But is it because you can eat a hamburger and hold it in your hand and you can't do that with music? Is it too free to control?" - Don Van Vliet (aka Captain Beefheart) discussing commercial success in the music biz


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post #17 of 25 Old 05-26-2013, 11:07 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectorPower View Post

Hello All,

I need to purchase an AV receiver to power my Fluance speakers:

http://fluance.com/product/SXHTB_5_Speaker_Surround_Sound_Home_Theater_System.eng-9.html

It states that the power handling is 50-160 watts for the fronts and the amp will still need to power the other speakers. I really don't know a ton about home audio and I wanted to get this amp:

Yamaha RX-375
http://usa.yamaha.com/products/audio-visual/av-receivers-amps/rx/rx-v375_black_u/?mode=model



Will this receiver be able to provide enough power for my speakers? I read somewhere that if you don't supply enough power you can damage the speakers?

Do I need to worry about that with these speakers or will pretty much any av receiver from a known company do the job?
Perfect AVR for those speakers. No problem. smile.gif
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post #18 of 25 Old 05-27-2013, 07:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Perfect AVR for those speakers. No problem. smile.gif


Thanks!


Also thanks to everyone who helped me out! I ended up getting the Yamaha RX-475! smile.gif (Wanted the banana plug inputs on all of the connectors! and a few of the higher features!)
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post #19 of 25 Old 05-28-2013, 08:36 AM
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try monoprice banana plugs. cheap with great quality. check out their HDMI slim cables too.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=9436&seq=1&format=2 (banana plugs) 5 pairs

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9427&seq=1&format=2 (HDMI) 6 feet. there's 3 ft for 9 bucks too.

my suggestion for getting a separate amp if for upgrade purposes. but if you have no plans to do it, then, you're good with your yamaha. congratulations and enjoy!!!!!!

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post #20 of 25 Old 05-28-2013, 11:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygax View Post

try monoprice banana plugs. cheap with great quality. check out their HDMI slim cables too.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=104&cp_id=10401&cs_id=1040115&p_id=9436&seq=1&format=2 (banana plugs) 5 pairs

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10255&cs_id=1025503&p_id=9427&seq=1&format=2 (HDMI) 6 feet. there's 3 ft for 9 bucks too.

my suggestion for getting a separate amp if for upgrade purposes. but if you have no plans to do it, then, you're good with your yamaha. congratulations and enjoy!!!!!!



Hey!

I actually already bought 2 of those HDMI cables already (1 10 foot and 1 6 foot) and several of the 5 pairs packs of the the banana plugs! haha

As well as 250 ft of 12 gauge speaker wire! You are right they have great prices but the shipping to Canada + duties was a bit expensive.

Thanks for all the help!

I have no plans at this point to get a separate amp for power. I am limited to how loud I can listen at this point due to living in an apartment. Maybe at some point in the future where I have more funds and if I really get more involved in this whole home audio thing. (I realize if I was to do this i would need a different receiver)

Question for you...what is "reference" level? How many Db? Would I be able to acheive that with these speakers?
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post #21 of 25 Old 05-28-2013, 01:27 PM
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reference level is the way that the big mixing stages are calibrated, and theoreticlly the way commercial theaters are calibrated so that however loud a moment of a movie is - whether it's 75 dB or 100 dB, it's the same volume every time on the mixing stage and the same volume in the theater. You can't precisely gauge it with movies because how loud things are depeds on how loud things were mixed and changes literally faster than second to second much of the time.

Theoretically, the max SPL for front and surround speakers at reference is 105 dB at the listening position. Usually tested in pro environments by playing a test sound encoded 20 dB below the loudest you can get (-20dBFS) and setting each speaker to 85 dB. Most home systems (leaving aside autosetup routines) use a sound that is equivalent to -30dBFS so each speaker is calibrated at 75 dB and theoretically, at full scale will be 105 dB.

Getting your speakers to those levels depends on their sensitivity.. 10 times power for every 10 dB increase, double power for every 3 dB increase. It also depends on your speakers. If they start compressing below 105 dB, you theoretically can't really get there. I mean, you might be able to hit 105 dB from a compressing speaker by doubling the power, but then you've turned up all the noncompressed stuff (ie maybe 90 percent of the movie) and you're no longer at "reference." I'm quite confident my smallish Paradigms cannot cleanly (or perhaps at all) hit 105 dB in my room. Doesn't mattter because I don't listen that loud.
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post #22 of 25 Old 05-28-2013, 04:07 PM
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Here's my setup.


XIM edge, ps3, yamaha RX-A1000, adcom GFAii, polk SDA2a, 65" toshiba LCD......more and more to come.....work, work, work!!!!
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post #23 of 25 Old 05-28-2013, 04:17 PM
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as any of you can see, I have mix speakers. it's terrible. but then, I haven't got a clue on what timber matching is. thanks to AVSforum, it has been a very educational journey for me. but those pair of polk audio SDA's really rock when im listening to music in 2 channel stereo mode.

for me, reference level is like standing near the front stage of a live concert. be very careful, cops might knock on your door for that. cool.gif

rock on! im listening right now to my bon jovi collection in FLAC file format. crystal clear oh yeah!!!!! biggrin.gif

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post #24 of 25 Old 05-29-2013, 08:04 AM
 
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Timbre match simply means the use of the same tweeters/drivers/crossover for each speaker, primarily only concerned with the front soundstage as the rears are not as important to be matched. however, if you can get the surrounds using the same tweets as the fronts, that is preferable for the best sound... cool.gif
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post #25 of 25 Old 05-29-2013, 12:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaygax View Post

I checked out fluance website. wow i'm impressed with the prices they've got. especially that XL7F model. it looks like there's a driver on the bottom of it. that's a sub I guess. anybody reviewed this speakers on the audiophile magz/people???? im still on the hunt for a budget friendly 9.1 set.

right now, my choices are, emotiva speakers, HTD, empTEK, and bic. i'll add these babies up too considering the price and the color. very beautiful!

with regards to this thread, maybe you need a little bit of power for your system. how about adding a separate 7 channel amp from emotiva?

http://shop.emotiva.com/collections/amplifiers/products/upa700 = check this out. for $500 bucks, you couldn't go wrong.

If you are looking for budget friendly speakers I would concentrate on getting a solid 5.1 system instead of stretching the budget to 9 speakers. If you want to add more speakers later you could do that but I would concentrate on getting the best 5 speakers and sub that you can for now. That’s just my opinion.
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