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post #1 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 12:20 PM - Thread Starter
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Whats your opinion on the absolute best sound mode to choose when using 5.1 vs 7.1.??? Im running 7 Definitive mythos all around the room on the wall sand two valedyne 12 inch subs in corners. But I cant tell a difference between neo 6,,,,neo 6 with THX and others? What do you find to be the best for movies?
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post #2 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 03:43 PM
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For movies, I prefer Logic 7, if I'm not using dts. But L7 is only available from Harman/Lexicon.
For rock music I prefer dts over L7.
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post #3 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 04:42 PM
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PLIIx produces stereo rear channels while Neo:6 does a mono rear that is fed to both back speakers. I believe Logic 7 also does stereo rears, although I am not certain about that.
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post #4 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 06:14 PM
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Logic 7 is one of the things HK got right IMO.
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post #5 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 07:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-87 View Post

Whats your opinion on the absolute best sound mode to choose when using 5.1 vs 7.1.??? Im running 7 Definitive mythos all around the room on the wall sand two valedyne 12 inch subs in corners. But I cant tell a difference between neo 6,,,,neo 6 with THX and others? What do you find to be the best for movies?

should you not listen in the format the material was coded in... such as "Dolby True HD" or "DTS" etc....

as for thx I have never seen a movie in THX so why would a rcvr decode THX?

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post #6 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 07:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-87 View Post

Whats your opinion on the absolute best sound mode to choose when using 5.1 vs 7.1.???
Like asking absolute best flavor of ice cream. You have to keep listening and find out which sounds best to you.

Having said that, I use Logic7 processing that others mention, but that mode is likely not in your receiver. Of the two most popular surround processing modes, I pefer PLIIx over Neo:X because it is more directional in the surround field.

As BIslander said, PLIIx extracts stereo surround-back channels while Neo:X extracts a mono surround-back channel (which is sent to both rear speakers).
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I believe Logic 7 also does stereo rears
Yup (eight years before PLIIx).

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post #7 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Catch-87 View Post


should you not listen in the format the material was coded in... such as "Dolby True HD" or "DTS" etc....
You can't actually listen to either of those codecs either, which are really just types of zip files used to compress large multichannel PCM soundtracks. It's PCM that gets processed to produce sound. Are you asking about Listening Modes to expand the number of channels in the source material - going from 2.0 or 5.1 to 7.1? DSPs such as PLIIx and Logic 7 come into play after tracks compressed using TrueHD or DTS-HD have been decoded, turning them back into PCM.
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post #8 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 09:09 PM - Thread Starter
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OK..OK.. My bad...Sorry fellas, I play pro sports for a living and am having a HARD time understanding this technical lingou.... But it sounds good.. Let me be more specific.. I have a Pioneer elite vsx53 receiver, so no, i don't see anything relevant to Logic 7 out of my choices....If i want the best , sharp, clear and accurate sound, what do i choose?
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post #9 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 09:47 PM
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I think most people listen in the sound format that it's recorded or broadcast in but as was already said, it's really more personal choice then one being better than another. I sometimes use Neo:6 Cinema for stereo movies and tv shows because I think it sounds better in the all important front three channels then ProLogic. But ProLogic does have more adjustable settings like Panaramic that make it easier to fine tune to your liking. The other formats like Theater, Jazz, Sports, etc. are all based around the DSP chip that Dolby and DTS use, they are just manipulated differently.

If you weren't aware, Pioneer's with Advanced MCACC have 6 EQ presets and have the ability to copy one preset eq and individual speaker volumes to another preset, after-which you can re-adjust each speaker volume to your liking for use with ProLogic/Neo:6. This way you can have a master MCACC (say, preset #1) for use with descreet Dolby and DTS 5.1 / 7.1 and use a copied and modified MCACC preset (say, preset #2) for use ProLogic/Neo:6.

As was already pointed out, Logic 7 is exclusive to Harman Kardon and Lexicon.
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post #10 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-87 View Post

If i want the best , sharp, clear and accurate sound, what do i choose?
PLIIx (Dolby Pro Logic IIx)

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post #11 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 09:59 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Catch-87 View Post

If i want the best , sharp, clear and accurate sound, what do i choose?
What are you listening to? BD? TV? Music?
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post #12 of 21 Old 05-26-2013, 10:25 PM
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If you want to listen the same number of channels that are on the source, do not use any special listening modes. Just set your receiver to process whatever the source sends - stereo as stereo and 5.1 as 5.1. Your rear speakers will be silent most of the time as there is not much 7.1 content.

If you want to hear all of your speakers in a 7.1 system all of the time, you will to apply a Listening Mode that expands the number of channels for sources that are less than 7.1. PLIIx is generally considered the best choice for that in most cases. Logic 7 is highly regarded, but is only available on a handful of receivers. Some people prefer DTS Neo:6, although it only produces a mono rear channel, as noted in previous posts. I would not bother with the group of modes with names like Jazz Club and Super Stadium. But, give them all a listen and use whatever sounds good to you.
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post #13 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 10:06 AM
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I'm of the opinion that all DSP is worthless. I tried the paramaters and found they lacked any substance. I use only straight analog in from my Oppom 93 NE.
I only use what the disc offers-DTS MA / DD HD. And listen to a lot of high res music, be it dvd a-sacd-or BD. The ideal avr to me would have no DSP. It would allow the external unit ( BD player) to do all the work of crossovers and everything else, and allow the amps to do what they do without interference. I also use multi-channel stereo modes with stereo scources. No coloration like with DSP.
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post #14 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 10:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

should you not listen in the format the material was coded in... such as "Dolby True HD" or "DTS" etc....

as for thx I have never seen a movie in THX so why would a rcvr decode THX?
Star Wars? THX- plus more. THX is an EQ steeing. I never did care for it. Besides, with BD, you should never use DSP settings. It just "colors" the sound. DTS MA and DD HD are great all by them selves.
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post #15 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

I'm of the opinion that all DSP is worthless. I tried the paramaters and found they lacked any substance. I use only straight analog in from my Oppom 93 NE.
I only use what the disc offers-DTS MA / DD HD. And listen to a lot of high res music, be it dvd a-sacd-or BD. The ideal avr to me would have no DSP. It would allow the external unit ( BD player) to do all the work of crossovers and everything else, and allow the amps to do what they do without interference. I also use multi-channel stereo modes with stereo scources. No coloration like with DSP.
Really? While people rave about the analog output of Oppos, no players have the processing tools that are available in receivers. Players have fairly limited bass management and no room correction. Maybe your room and equipment are fine without much processing, but that's not the case for most home situations.

Meanwhile, you turn your nose up at sophisticated processing such as Audyssey while using multichannel stereo, which destroys all stereo imaging. That seems a bit inconsistent.
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post #16 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 10:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by quad4.0 View Post

Quote:
Originally Posted by fschris View Post

should you not listen in the format the material was coded in... such as "Dolby True HD" or "DTS" etc....

as for thx I have never seen a movie in THX so why would a rcvr decode THX?
Star Wars? THX- plus more. THX is an EQ steeing. I never did care for it. Besides, with BD, you should never use DSP settings. It just "colors" the sound. DTS MA and DD HD are great all by them selves.
Colors the sound? DSPs such as Audyssey are designed to compensate for room issues in the home environment. What's the matter with that?

dts-MA and TrueHD are not audio formats any more than a zip file is a kind of word processor. They are data compression codecs whose sole purpose is saving space on a disc. PCM is the actual audio format.

Besides, this discussion is about the expansion of stereo and 5.1 sources to 7.1. You clearly think that's OK since you use multichannel stereo modes to do just that. I think most would agree that multichannel stereo is the worst way to do channel expansion.
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post #17 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 02:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

Really? While people rave about the analog output of Oppos, no players have the processing tools that are available in receivers. Players have fairly limited bass management and no room correction. Maybe your room and equipment are fine without much processing, but that's not the case for most home situations.

Meanwhile, you turn your nose up at sophisticated processing such as Audyssey while using multichannel stereo, which destroys all stereo imaging. That seems a bit inconsistent.

I think you are mixing two different techs. Audyssey, MMCC, EZSet, are room corrections, not DSP. I think that Quad4 is talking about DSP like Hall 1, Hall 2, Concert, Jazz, etc. And I agree, they are worthless.
For music I do not even use RC. And of coarse, with MCM you can't anyway.
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post #18 of 21 Old 05-27-2013, 02:21 PM
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^^ I think Audyssey would be surprised to learn that its room correction doesn't use Digital Signal Processing. (Try googling Audyssey and DSP.)

And quad4.0 seems to have stated rather clearly that he thinks "all DSP is worthless" and that he doesn't care for what he refers to as "EQ steering". Plus, he favors doing all processing in his player, which lacks room correction software such as Audyssey.

But, let's ask quad4.0 - are you simply against DSPs such as Jazz and Concert? Or, do you also object to DSPs such as PLIIx and room correction like Audyssey?
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post #19 of 21 Old 06-02-2013, 07:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

^^ I think Audyssey would be surprised to learn that its room correction doesn't use Digital Signal Processing. (Try googling Audyssey and DSP.)

And quad4.0 seems to have stated rather clearly that he thinks "all DSP is worthless" and that he doesn't care for what he refers to as "EQ steering". Plus, he favors doing all processing in his player, which lacks room correction software such as Audyssey.

But, let's ask quad4.0 - are you simply against DSPs such as Jazz and Concert? Or, do you also object to DSPs such as PLIIx and room correction like Audyssey?

I did not say Audyssey was not digital. I said it is room/system correction setup. DSP like Jazz, Concert, Party or what have you, are trying to imitate something you don't actually have. And do a poor job doing it.
That is the difference I was pointing out.
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post #20 of 21 Old 06-02-2013, 08:03 AM
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^^ You are the only one here inserting those cheesy custom DSPs into the conversation. Everyone else is discussing DSPs such as PLIIx and Logic 7, used to expand material to 7.1. I suspect the others would share your disdain for modes such as Jazz Club.

Meanwhile, for some reason, you have decided quad4.0 is only objecting to the use of the silly DSPs, even though he has clearly stated he objects to all digital processing (except, remarkably, multichannel stereo). If you go back and read his posts, you will see that he believes all processing should be done by the player, which lacks tools such as PLIIx and room correction, and that receivers should only be used as amps. He seems to object to more than just the custom DSPs you mention. But, as he has failed to answer the request for clarification, we cannot know for sure.
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post #21 of 21 Old 06-02-2013, 08:58 AM
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I have been using Onkyo for awhile. I had found that the THX modes usually sounded the best for me. Now that I've upgraded my speakers though I find doing the straight decode with Audyssey enabled sounds the best.

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