The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread - Page 76 - AVS Forum
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post #2251 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

So it looks like the best bets for "waiting" a short while are HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD...?

So, how many channels/speakers do you need in your system to take advantage of Atmos? I'm currently running 11.2 and can't imagine adding more to the mix. tongue.gif
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post #2252 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 08:17 AM
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You won't need any additional speakers although it seems two more overhead would add to the experience.
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post #2253 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 08:23 AM
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Hmm, 2 wouldn't be too bad I suppose. Guess I'll just have to wait and see how I feel about that when the time comes. biggrin.gif
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post #2254 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 09:17 AM
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Seems my question about anyone using these for a prepro was overlooked
So I will ask it again, anyone using one for that purpose?.
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post #2255 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 09:35 AM
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Yes any of the receivers with pre-amp outputs can be used as a pre/pro. I use the 3020 as one currently. Functions nearly identical to the CX-A5000.

Is there anything in particular you want to know?
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post #2256 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 10:06 AM
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Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

So it looks like the best bets for "waiting" a short while are HDMI 2.0, Dolby Atmos and DTS-UHD...?

But don't assume Yamaha will support new Dolby and DTS technologies even when available. For example they've refused to license Dolby PLIIz, Dolby Volume and DTS Neo:X.
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post #2257 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 10:35 AM
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I understand and agree with what you are saying. But I was mostly referring to what the manufacturers are trying sell right now. That's 4k from what I'm seeing (3D and Smart TVs are so 'last year'). As for HDMI 2.0 already being here, only some products are claiming it and from what others have said I'm not certain that it's fully baked yet. Since, like you, I think useful 4k content is still a ways off and from what understand 4k 60fps support is HDMI 2.0's most important new feature, I'm not going to worry about it either till I get interested in 4k (which won't happen till I can get media that supports it).

Hmm, with all that considered, for me I would be fine purchasing something now or in the Fall or next year or 2 years from now or whatever. This is because everything I need and will need is already on the AVRs and then some. Most of the connections and some of the features on the AVRs of 2012/13 I would never use. I don't have apple product (although thinking about that airplay thing, but not seriously), no fancy/smart phone stuff, I rarely if ever hook anything up via optical (TosLINK), not interested in i-pods and such, never going beyond 5.1 and I'm pretty much old school. My only concern is corners being cut as the years go on in the manufacturing of AVRs. As far as I know 2012/2013 and most likely 2014 Yamaha has not given in to the cheapness of having everything developed and made in China like most other AVR makes, but who knows what is around the corner? When I was looking back about 6 years ago, Yamaha AVRs were so-so to me and I liked the Onkyo better. I think Yamaha was not paying too close attention to that market perhaps. Then come 2012, somebody at Yamaha decided to get back into the game and did so with a vengeance and has been producing some impressive builds. That says something.
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post #2258 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 12:35 PM
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Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post


If you want Atmos, you'll be waiting for at least 2 years.

 

There is always something, isn't there...?

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post #2259 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 01:27 PM
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We've got a small HT, but the imaging can be so precise with basic 5.1 that I usually feel 7.1 largely unnecessary. This is a treated room. I've been thinking about adding front presence, now that we have the 3030, but the logisitics of adding two more speakers to a room that was treated specifically for seven speakers, as well as cutting back the available power supply to the seven speakers we're using now gives me pause. The reward doesn't seem to be worth the trouble.

If a new physical 4K format manages to get strong Hollywood support - which doesn't seem at all promising to me - and sells are strong enough to justify the same competitive mass-market pricing we enjoy from BD today - again not extremely promising when even etailers are cutting back inventory on hand, and what relatively few speciality brick and mortar stores that are left are downsizing too, with mass market merchandisers dramatically scaling back inventory as well, some already starting to eliminate 3DBD content carried in stores - then I'll consider taking 2.0 branded AVRs and new sound formating more seriously. But, it may be another decade - or more - before we have the speeds required for a decent 4K streaming experience, where I think the studios plan to most exploit 4K in their interest of pushing more people to go digital, and I'm not big on investing in non-tangible products other than food, especially not from an industry with the financial sensibilities of Hollywood.

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post #2260 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 01:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Chad Varnadore View Post

We've got a small HT, but the imaging can be so precise with basic 5.1 that I usually feel 7.1 largely unnecessary. This is a treated room. I've been thinking about adding front presence, now that we have the 3030, but the logisitics of adding two more speakers to a room that was treated specifically for seven speakers, as well as cutting back the available power supply to the seven speakers we're using now gives me pause. The reward doesn't seem to be worth the trouble.

I don't think you need to worry too much about the amount of power that gets siphoned off for the presence speakers. They are significantly bandwidth limited and use very little power. For example on previous Yamaha models (the Z11 for example), the presence channels were rated at only 50 watts as I recall. Not much gets sent to them. Just reflections and ambience.

As for whether or not it's worth it or not...that's subjective. I've been running with front presence speakers with my Yamaha receivers for years and have never regretted it. Since I got a Z11 in 2007 I've been using rear presence speakers as well. With my RX-A3030 in my den I had to employ a Emotiva mini-X a-100 for the rear presence since the 3030 has only 9 channels of amplification. The 3030 replaced one of my Z11s with which I had installed the rear presence speakers for so I already had them up, and the Emotiva amp was just sitting in one of my closets unused. tongue.gif
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post #2261 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 03:54 PM
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Just had a little chat with the fine folks over at Yammy world and this is what I was told: (I told them I have a vintage restored CR-2020 from the 70s and the reaction was one of catching off guard and "wow". The rep told me, "yes, we have new AVR's coming out in the Fall or around then in the Aventage line. (xx40)"
"We come out every year with them". The reps advice was to stop waiting to purchase unless there is a feature you really want or need not available on the current models.
He also told me that he can't go into specifics about the new models for Fall, on the sly advised me to go on the website and look at the new models just out in the low and mid range AVRs and I'll get a little hint as to what I might expect to see on the new higher models. He said every year they gather the customer's write-in comments of things they would like to see on the next model.
I did so and here is what I found:
Looking at the RX-V777BT I see added: Built-In WiFi!!! (Yipee)! They also include the BlueTooth adapter in the box on this one. HDMI 2.0, UHD ability, YAPO volume (I think this may already be on the Aventage line), also streaming now able via the Control App as well, DSP Parameter adjustments, Sub Trim Control.
The RX-V677 offers built-in WiFi, HDMI 2.0 and the same as above except no BlueTooth or UHD support.

I think I better wait until the Fall before I purchase if I go Yamaha (just for built in WiFi and DSP adjustments and streaming from control app as far as I'm personally concerned). If this is on the mid-level AVRs, I can only imagine what we might see on the higher end.
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post #2262 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 04:04 PM
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If you need a amp now, buy one.

In 6 months, you'll be hearing of next years model, so you might as well. Wait until you're 98 years old, then wait until next years models come out

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post #2263 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 04:14 PM
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If you need a amp now, buy one.

In 6 months, you'll be hearing of next years model, so you might as well. Wait until you're 98 years old, then wait until next years models come out
The luxury I have is that I don't "need" one right now, I can wait 6 months. My Onkyo should last that much longer....I think. However, at that time I will be purchasing a new AVR from somebody....most likely Yamaha no matter if I hear about the next year's models or not. If my assumption is right the new 3040, etc will have everything on my wish list and much much more. That is if they don't compromise the amp sections for silly features. I figure if they are now throwing WiFi and BlueTooth in the box on the mid level AVRs for instance, I don't want to be kicking myself for not having the same after spending an ungodly amount of money AVR.
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Unfortunately frown.gif the delivery method for home Atmos will coincide with UHD BD phase 2 or 3 which means approximately between 2 to 4 years from now mad.gif

However, the need to wait that long before purchasing a conforming 7.x + 4 Heights AVR might be avoided if the putative RX-A3040 AVR (or its successor) includes HDMI 2.0 with the capability to input MCh LPCM 11.x (i.e., to treat the Front and Rear Presence speaker pairs as four regular, EDID addressable, Front or Rear Height speakers). In that way, it should be possible to add external DTS-UHD, Auro-3D 9.1, "HomeTheaterAtmos", or 3Daudio for ATSC 3.0 TV render|decode|remap processors individually, as they become available . . . and more reasonably priced!
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post #2265 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 07:17 PM
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Hi,
Is there any/or much differences between the Yamaha RX-A2030 or A3030? (sound and features) Also what about the upcoming A4030?
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post #2266 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 09:30 PM
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But don't assume Yamaha will support new Dolby and DTS technologies even when available. For example they've refused to license Dolby PLIIz, Dolby Volume and DTS Neo:X.
The RX-A2030 and 3030 have Dolby PLIIz and DTS Neo.
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post #2267 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 09:35 PM
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Hi,
Is there any/or much differences between the Yamaha RX-A2030 or A3030? (sound and features) Also what about the upcoming A4030?

Not much difference between the two at all: 10WPC which means nothing and the 3030 has YAPO with angle measurement and two ESS DACS one is 192/24 and the other is 192/32, but again I doubt any of humans would hear the difference. That's about all the differences I think.
The A3040 probably along with a 2040 and 1040 is due out around the fall. The only differences so far as I posted a couple of threads up are guesses.
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post #2268 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 10:28 PM
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I noticed in your previous post that you had a "cat5/6 setup" running between your 2030 and the TV. Did you ever try replacing that with a straight HDMI cable run to see if it helped? Otherwise, your setup sound similar to what I have with two of my systems. One has a 2030, Oppo 103 and a Sharp 70" and the other has a 3030, Oppo 103 and a Sharp 80". Both of these systems work fine w/o any HDMI handshake issues. I'm using pretty standard 6' HDMI cables, nothing special on either of them.

Just to finalize my situation here I thought I'd go back to this post.

I did respond and took the Cat5/6 out of the equation and it didn't resolve the problem. I moved the receiver over and directly hooked the HDMI up to the TV and still had the issue. Didn't have it with my cheapo Denon AVR 1312 from upstairs.

So I took the receiver in for service. They didn't find anything wrong with it but they did call me and give me an entirely new RX-A2030.

So I brought it home and hooked it up. Much to my dismay, I had the same issue all over again. What to do this time? Well, I thought ok, the Denon didn't have an issue with the Cat 5/6 but the Yamaha clearly is. Alright, time to look around for a long run HDMI cable. Wasn't aware of Redmere HDMI cables but I thought ok, I'll upgrade all the cables involved for hooking the components into the Yamaha and also get a long (40') HDMI and see if that changes it.

Lo and behold, the 40' Redmere arrived today and I hooked it up and the issue is gone. So I have to go out and get some PVC pipe and mount that to run the HDMI through as the smurf tube blank I have is too narrow, but I'll be able to put this issue behind me. I still don't quite get why the Yamaha won't communicate via the Cat 5/6, but it won't. The PVR will. The Oppo will. But not the Yamaha.

Ultimately it doesn't matter. I"m happy with my retailers service. I'm happy with Yamaha Canada's service. I'm also happy with Monoprice for providing a solution and a long run HDMI cable that works. And miraculously I ordered this cable late Tuesday night and it was delivered into Canada on Thursday afternoon, meeting the 1-2 day delivery as promised. Never thought that would happen. Didn't enjoy the brokerage fees, but ultimately my order was still cheaper than ordering through Amazon.ca anyway.

I snagged three other Redmere cables as well to upgrade from the less expensive ($10 versus about $2, all from Monoprice) HDMI cables I'd originally purchased. It's thousands of dollars of receiver/speakers so a few extra bucks since I was making an order anyway seemed to fit the situation.

Thanks again for taking the time to respond, bwillcox. I did consider the cat 5/6 as part of the problem, but appreciate you bringing it to the forefront because it seemed the next logical place to go after again. If the HDMI long run cable didn't solve it, I would have been moving on to trying to figure out if the Oppo or the PVR were part of the issue somehow. Now I can just move on.
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post #2269 of 3041 Old 04-17-2014, 11:46 PM
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Not much difference between the two at all: 10WPC which means nothing and the 3030 has YAPO with angle measurement and two ESS DACS one is 192/24 and the other is 192/32, but again I doubt any of humans would hear the difference. That's about all the differences I think. The A3040 probably along with a 2040 and 1040 is due out around the fall. The only differences so far as I posted a couple of threads up are guesses.
The 3030 adds front & rear presence(11.2) to the 2 sets of zone 2/3 preamp outputs. The A5000 has dedicated presence (11.2) and multi-zone preamp out.
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post #2270 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 04:49 AM
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But don't assume Yamaha will support new Dolby and DTS technologies even when available. For example they've refused to license Dolby PLIIz, Dolby Volume and DTS Neo:X.

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Originally Posted by luvmusic View Post

The RX-A2030 and 3030 have Dolby PLIIz and DTS Neo.

They only have PLIIx and Neo:6, which have been around for years. They don't have PLIIz and Neo:X, which are newer technologies for more than 7 channels.
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post #2271 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 05:20 AM
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Not much difference between the two at all: 10WPC which means nothing and the 3030 has YAPO with angle measurement and two ESS DACS one is 192/24 and the other is 192/32, but again I doubt any of humans would hear the difference. That's about all the differences I think.
The A3040 probably along with a 2040 and 1040 is due out around the fall. The only differences so far as I posted a couple of threads up are guesses.

You left out the back lighted remote for the 3030. The 2030's remote has no light. Also, the 3030 has 11 channel pre-outs. The two additional are for rear presence channels. You'll need to use a separate amplifier for these should you want to use them since there's only 9 channels of amplification in both models.
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post #2272 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 08:21 AM
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The 3030 adds front & rear presence(11.2) to the 2 sets of zone 2/3 preamp outputs. The A5000 has dedicated presence (11.2) and multi-zone preamp out.

Sorry, I did leave that out. My bad.
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post #2273 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 08:22 AM
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They only have PLIIx and Neo:6, which have been around for years. They don't have PLIIz and Neo:X, which are newer technologies for more than 7 channels.

Oh, I see. Sorry, it just all becomes blurred with these different versions of the same thing to me.
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post #2274 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 08:26 AM
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You left out the back lighted remote for the 3030. The 2030's remote has no light. Also, the 3030 has 11 channel pre-outs. The two additional are for rear presence channels. You'll need to use a separate amplifier for these should you want to use them since there's only 9 channels of amplification in both models.

Yes, sorry I left this out as well. My bad. It's hard to do without my notes in front of me and since I am in the market and trying to get a handle on all this myself for my own selection, my head is so full right now that I'm losing bits of info along the way. Thanks for finding my breadcrumb trail and putting those bits back in.
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post #2275 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 01:36 PM
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I don't think you need to worry too much about the amount of power that gets siphoned off for the presence speakers. They are significantly bandwidth limited and use very little power. For example on previous Yamaha models (the Z11 for example), the presence channels were rated at only 50 watts as I recall. Not much gets sent to them. Just reflections and ambience.

As for whether or not it's worth it or not...that's subjective. I've been running with front presence speakers with my Yamaha receivers for years and have never regretted it. Since I got a Z11 in 2007 I've been using rear presence speakers as well. With my RX-A3030 in my den I had to employ a Emotiva mini-X a-100 for the rear presence since the 3030 has only 9 channels of amplification. The 3030 replaced one of my Z11s with which I had installed the rear presence speakers for so I already had them up, and the Emotiva amp was just sitting in one of my closets unused. tongue.gif

Oh, I didn't mean to imply I expected it amounted to much power. With a very tiny room, fully treated, and four dipole surrounds, the system already sounds more seamless and sonically involving than the best THX cinema I've been to.

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Just had a little chat with the fine folks over at Yammy world and this is what I was told: (I told them I have a vintage restored CR-2020 from the 70s and the reaction was one of catching off guard and "wow". The rep told me, "yes, we have new AVR's coming out in the Fall or around then in the Aventage line. (xx40)"
"We come out every year with them". The reps advice was to stop waiting to purchase unless there is a feature you really want or need not available on the current models.
He also told me that he can't go into specifics about the new models for Fall, on the sly advised me to go on the website and look at the new models just out in the low and mid range AVRs and I'll get a little hint as to what I might expect to see on the new higher models. He said every year they gather the customer's write-in comments of things they would like to see on the next model.
I did so and here is what I found:
Looking at the RX-V777BT I see added: Built-In WiFi!!! (Yipee)! They also include the BlueTooth adapter in the box on this one. HDMI 2.0, UHD ability, YAPO volume (I think this may already be on the Aventage line), also streaming now able via the Control App as well, DSP Parameter adjustments, Sub Trim Control.
The RX-V677 offers built-in WiFi, HDMI 2.0 and the same as above except no BlueTooth or UHD support.

I think I better wait until the Fall before I purchase if I go Yamaha (just for built in WiFi and DSP adjustments and streaming from control app as far as I'm personally concerned). If this is on the mid-level AVRs, I can only imagine what we might see on the higher end.

Loosely translated, he likely wasn't privy to such information himself. I've had several pre-purchase conversations with Yamaha techs. None resulted in very accurate information on their part - some of what they told me was so erroneous, I felt like I could have gotten better info from an amazon CSR rep talking on the phone from India or wherever. They sounded very confident, even somewhat knowledgable, though arrogant. But apparently they were just winging it. These conversation were all about the 3030/3020 and 2030/2020 models that have long be availabe. So I can only imagine how accurate their info for something that has yet to be announced.

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post #2276 of 3041 Old 04-18-2014, 02:49 PM
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Oh, I didn't mean to imply I expected it amounted to much power. With a very tiny room, fully treated, and four dipole surrounds, the system already sounds more seamless and sonically involving than the best THX cinema I've been to.
Loosely translated, he likely wasn't privy to such information himself. I've had several pre-purchase conversations with Yamaha techs. None resulted in very accurate information on their part - some of what they told me was so erroneous, I felt like I could have gotten better info from an amazon CSR rep talking on the phone from India or wherever. They sounded very confident, even somewhat knowledgable, though arrogant. But apparently they were just winging it. These conversation were all about the 3030/3020 and 2030/2020 models that have long be availabe. So I can only imagine how accurate their info for something that has yet to be announced.

That right there is most likely as close to truth as we will get for now. Thumbs up.
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Do you folks use the hires enhancer feature to play PCM/FLAC? Do you hear any difference (ON vs OFF)?

 

According to the RXA3030 manual, this feature is limited to material up to 48kHz. How does it improve sound quality? Is it just enabling a upsampling function in the DAC, or the DSP is involved?


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post #2278 of 3041 Old 04-19-2014, 02:03 PM
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Looking at the 1030 as a prepro, want to keep costs around 1k
Need phono input otherwise would look at the 830 too
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post #2279 of 3041 Old 04-19-2014, 05:15 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

But don't assume Yamaha will support new Dolby and DTS technologies even when available. For example they've refused to license Dolby PLIIz, Dolby Volume and DTS Neo:X.

Two of those are post processing DSP algorithms.. not new codecs.. of which Yamaha has their own.

And not all of their competition has adopted Dolby Volume in lieu of THX Loudness Plus or Dynamic Volume... they aren't alone in their omission.

I think it's a fairly safe assumption that Yamaha would support whatever might be coming down the pike in terms of codecs from DTS and Dolby..
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post #2280 of 3041 Old 04-19-2014, 05:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FilmMixer View Post

Two of those are post processing DSP algorithms.. not new codecs.. of which Yamaha has their own.

And not all of their competition has adopted Dolby Volume in lieu of THX Loudness Plus or Dynamic Volume... they aren't alone in their omission.

I think it's a fairly safe assumption that Yamaha would support whatever might be coming down the pike in terms of codecs from DTS and Dolby..

Agreed, except what happens if Dolby and/or DTS insist Yamaha has to license all of their new technologies (PLIIx and Neo:X included)? I suppose they'll have to agree, but it goes against their current marketing strategy of using their own processing algorithms.
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