The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread - Page 88 - AVS Forum
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post #2611 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 06:05 PM
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Originally Posted by tidan View Post

You would run the according pre-outs from the yamaha into the pre-ins or line level inputs on the amp. Its super super simple. They should all be labelled quite well.
I used mono price 75 ohm digital coax rya cables - super good price and a good quality cable.
Thanks! So if the 3030 has two RCA outputs for each channel and the amp has one and it's white for each channel, would I just use the white colored rca jack and leave the red unconnected?
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post #2612 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 06:22 PM
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There's one pre-out per channel, not two. There's a section in the manual about using external amps.
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post #2613 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 06:28 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

There's one pre-out per channel, not two. It's all in the manual.
I should have worded that differently, understood there is one pre out per channel, a red/ white rca jack. My question is, if a pre-out channel uses the normal red/white jacks and you go to plug them into the amp and it only has one unbalanced terminal and its white, do I just plug in the white colored jack and leave the red one unplugged? or am I still missing something here??
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post #2614 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 06:58 PM
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Yes, you're still missing something smile.gif. Each pre-out channel has one RCA connector. It's either white OR red on the 3030 to tell you if it's left or right. For example, there are two pre-outs labelled Front, the white one is front L and the red one is front R. They both need to connect to an amp.
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post #2615 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post

Yes, you're still missing something smile.gif. Each pre-out channel has one RCA connector. It's either white OR red on the 3030 to tell you if it's left or right. For example, there are two pre-outs labelled Front, the white one is front L and the red one is front R. They both need to connect to an amp.
I know that however the emotiva amps say for instance the XPA-5, has only one RCA terminal and it is white for an unbalanced connection, there isn't a red one. How would I connect that?
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post #2616 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post

I know that however the emotiva amps say for instance the XPA-5, has only one RCA terminal and it is white for an unbalanced connection, there isn't a red one. How would I connect that?
The 3030 is being used as a preamp. As such all output channels are defined (e.g. L & r front, surround, etc.). So they're color coded to help differentiate. The Emotiva channel assignment is determined by the input from the 3030, as such no input is predefined as left & right, so no color coding.
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post #2617 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 08:38 PM
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Ignore the colors for the most part. Just read the back of the yamaha and the back of the amp you're plugging into. There should be L/C/R/LS/RS/LB/RB/etc...for the pre-outs on the yamaha. Connecting one at a time, use a 75 ohm sheilded rca cable and connect the "L" pre-out on the yamaha to the "L" input on the amp. Then do the "R" channel...then the "C"....then the rest....
The color coding won't usually match so don't worry about it. Just read the back of the yamaha and the back of the amp ignoring the color coding. After you have it all connected run the test tone on the yamaha and verify that the tone matches the speaker it should be coming out of as it moves from channel to channel.
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post #2618 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:04 PM
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I know how to plug them in and know which wires go where... however I'm confused as to hooking them up as unbalanced. in the back of the 3030, you have one channel that has white/red terminals. On the back of the XPA-5, you have one that is white. How would you hook this up? I have attached images to for a clearer understanding of what i'm asking. I've googled it and found nothing however I keep seeing one wire that comes out of the XPA-5 on these terminals but I do not know how it should be properly connected. Thanks.


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post #2619 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:24 PM
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AVR White -> Ch1/FL

AVR Red -> Ch5/FR

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post #2620 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post

in the back of the 3030, you have one channel that has white/red terminals. On the back of the XPA-5, you have one that is white. How would you hook this up? I have attached images to for a clearer understanding of what i'm asking. I've googled it and found nothing



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post #2621 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxerfan88 View Post

AVR White -> Ch1/FL
AVR Red -> Ch5/FR
Thank you!!
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Serious...
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post #2622 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:36 PM
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Well then... don't pay any mind to the colors really. It's just there to help coordinate and keep the channel sets in pairs. Not to be taken literally or anything. If you are planning on using the unbalanced preouts any set of RCA cables will do the job.

Have fun!

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post #2623 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post

Well then... don't pay any mind to the colors really. It's just there to help coordinate and keep the channel sets in pairs. Not to be taken literally or anything. If you are planning on using the unbalanced preouts any set of RCA cables will do the job.

Have fun!
Like i said, it has definitely been 15+ years since I have been away from the A/V scene and when I lived in the barracks on base, I couldn't have much 10yrs ago so I just bought a HTIB and suited me well for the time being. Now that I have a house and I've saved a pretty good amount, I want to get back into it all but I feel that since I've been away from it for so long, I feel lost with all of the new technology. I've been trying to do a lot of research to find the perfect set-up for my living room layout. Thanks for the help, I'll definitely keep that in mind! Having fun is right around the corner! cool.gif
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post #2624 of 3187 Old 06-09-2014, 10:45 PM
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Oh. I missed the part where you had mentioned that you have been out of the loop wrt current audio gear and trends.

You certainly picked a hell of an receiver to 'get back into audio'. Hell yeah, man.
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post #2625 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 05:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post

... in the back of the 3030, you have one channel that has white/red terminals...

I guess it's cleared up now, but the quote above is your mistake. Your picture highlighted TWO channels on the back of the 3030, not ONE channel.

You might also try hooking up the speakers direct to the 3030 first to check things out. Then you can switch to the amp and see if it really makes a difference. If you use banana plugs it'll be easy to switch the speakers from one set of connectors to the other.
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post #2626 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 06:42 AM
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Im a little curious about that myself. The preouts on the 3030 arent marked as L or R but rather Red and White. But the inputs on the amp are marked as FR and FL. If you guys say the color doesnt matter that seems confusing. If youre listening to multichannel you dont want to get FR mixed up with FL. So how can you be sure to be going from Left on the 3030 to Left on the amp?

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post #2627 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 07:10 AM
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Actually they are marked L and R, but not in a very clear way (Yamaha could have done a better job). At the extreme left of the entire row of red and white RCA connectors (pre-outs as well as multi-channel inputs and other audio inputs), there's a single, circled L and R. That L and R is supposed to apply to the whole row of connectors, but it is somewhat confusing. See the following pic.

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Ah! Thank you, sir.

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post #2629 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 07:18 AM
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What was said was that the colours won't match up and you don't need to mind them in this case. Speficially the RCA pre-out jacks on the RX-A3030 are coloured red and white depending on whether they're the right or left channel of a pair of channels, but the input RCA jacks on the XPA-5 are all white. To connect the front right channel you have to connect a red jack on the RX-A3030 to a white jack on the XPA-5, which apparently caused the confusion.

One point that hasn't been broughten up yet is if you connect an external amplifier to drive the front speakers, and you're hoping to use the internal amplifiers of the RX-A3030 to drive rear presence speakers in a 11.1 speaker setup you need to set the power amp assignment setting to "9ch + FRONT". This will let the receiver know you're using an external amp and so can repurpose the a pair of internal amplifers to drive rear presence speakers instead. If you're using YPAO to setup your speakers, you'll be prompted to set this value at the start. If you're manaually configuring your speakers you change the setting from the setup menu ([On Screen] -> Setup -> Speakers -> Manual Setup -> Power Amp Assign -> 9ch + FRONT).
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Ross,
What are your thoughts on biamping speakers?

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post #2631 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 08:42 AM
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I don't think the passive bi-amping as implemented in AV receivers makes sense even theoretically. At best it could let you squeeze a bit more effective power of the amps by having two amps driving the same speaker, but you're still going to be limited by the receivers power supply.

Theoretically active bi-amping makes sense since it replaces the non-linear components of a the passive filters in the speakers with more linear active filters in the amplifer, but in practice I don't know how if effective it really is. The room correction receivers have this days may do as good or better job of fixing the problems caused by non-linearity in speaker crossovers. It also seems to be something that's limited to sort of people who build their own amps and speakers, there doesn't seem to be a any off-the-shelf consumer components that support active bi-amping.
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post #2632 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 08:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

I don't think the passive bi-amping as implemented in AV receivers makes sense even theoretically. At best it could let you squeeze a bit more effective power of the amps by having two amps driving the same speaker, but you're still going to be limited by the receivers power supply.

Theoretically active bi-amping makes sense since it replaces the non-linear components of a the passive filters in the speakers with more linear active filters in the amplifer, but in practice I don't know how if effective it really is. The room correction receivers have this days may do as good or better job of fixing the problems caused by non-linearity in speaker crossovers. It also seems to be something that's limited to sort of people who build their own amps and speakers, there doesn't seem to be a any off-the-shelf consumer components that support active bi-amping.
Thank you. Thats pretty much in line with what I have heard from others.
If you do not disable the crossover in a speaker passive biamping with an AVR has no value. Makes me wonder why so many "professionals" that review many of these receivers do so with a biamp configuration.

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post #2633 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 08:52 AM
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Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

Makes me wonder why so many "professionals" that review many of these receivers do so with a biamp configuration.


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I dont doubt thats part of it. Although many of them are supposed to be "independent" reviewers.

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post #2635 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 09:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Night_Hawk View Post

Thanks, Tomi! I was maybe thinking about running just an extra 300W x 2 Emotiva XPA-2 to run some Paradigm Studio 100's.

On a side note, to learn a little more about running an external amp, how would I run, lets say, an Emotiva XPA-5 200w x 5 amp? Which pre-out would I connect that to? Also, if I wanted to just wanted to add an extra amp to the center being it only has one terminal, which cable would I hook it up with??? Thanks!

To simplify things somewhat, you can think of each of the 5 channels in the Emotiva as "mono channels". In the pre-amplifier situation, you simply connect each of the channels from the Yamaha to the Emotiva with an RCA cable. You can find RCA cables as single "mono" cables (I use these to connect my subwoofer to the Yamaha), in stereo configurations (two RCA cables connected by the outer plastic for easier cable management and color coded red/white or red/black for right/left), and some other combinations. It doesn't matter which you use as long as the cables are the same type and length, but I'd recommend not mixing any RCA cables intended for video (yellow color coding or red/green/blue for component video cables). Then it's just a matter of keeping track what channel you connected where, so that you get the speaker outs to match the originating channel.

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post #2636 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 09:13 AM
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I dont doubt thats part of it. Although many of them are supposed to be "independent" reviewers.

Yeah, I know it sucks cuz that's the impression given. Over the years I've lost my trust in many if not all published type review sites and such. Most of the time money will sway some of these "independent" observations.

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post #2637 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 09:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

There doesn't seem to be a any off-the-shelf consumer components that support active bi-amping.
The high end Onkyo receivers have high/mid active crossovers.
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post #2638 of 3187 Old 06-10-2014, 10:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bond 007 View Post

If you do not disable the crossover in a speaker passive biamping with an AVR has no value. Makes me wonder why so many "professionals" that review many of these receivers do so with a biamp configuration.

If you're passive bi-amping, whether it does any good or not, you need to leave the speaker's passive filters in-place, but disconnected them from each other to form a seperate low-pass and high-pass filters instead of a crossover. If you remove the filters completely then both drivers (the tweeter and woofer) get the full range of audio frequencies. Each driver can only handle a limited range, driving them outside that range won't sound good and you risk damaging the speakers. Speakers that are designed for either passive bi-amping or normal use will have a pair jumpers connecting two sets of binding posts. When bi-amping you remove the jumpers and use both sets of posts, when used like a normal speaker you leave jumpers in place and use only one set of posts.

On the other hand, if you're active bi-amping then you do want to remove the filters from the speakers completely. If they're still in the circuit their non-linear effects will remain, doing nothing but hurting the quality of the audio. You would normally have disassemble speakers and disconnect the filters yourself. Removing jumpers wouldn't be enough.
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post #2639 of 3187 Old 06-13-2014, 04:54 AM
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I have a different opinion. I think passive bi-amping allows us to separate woofer-amp interaction from tweeter-amp interaction. Current draw for woofer can be separated from current draw for tweeter via two different amps.

Where it all integrates (bottleneck) would be at the transformer & main power distribution block.

Just my opinion...



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I don't think the passive bi-amping as implemented in AV receivers makes sense even theoretically. At best it could let you squeeze a bit more effective power of the amps by having two amps driving the same speaker, but you're still going to be limited by the receivers power supply.

Theoretically active bi-amping makes sense since it replaces the non-linear components of a the passive filters in the speakers with more linear active filters in the amplifer, but in practice I don't know how if effective it really is. The room correction receivers have this days may do as good or better job of fixing the problems caused by non-linearity in speaker crossovers. It also seems to be something that's limited to sort of people who build their own amps and speakers, there doesn't seem to be a any off-the-shelf consumer components that support active bi-amping.

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post #2640 of 3187 Old 06-13-2014, 05:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by boxerfan88 View Post
I have a different opinion. I think passive bi-amping allows us to separate woofer-amp interaction from tweeter-amp interaction. Current draw for woofer can be separated from current draw for tweeter via two different amps.

Where it all integrates (bottleneck) would be at the transformer & main power distribution block.

Just my opinion...
Perhaps it does. So what is the real world benefit? Would you be able to hear the difference?
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