The "Official" Yamaha AVENTAGE RX-A1030, RX-A2030, RX-A3030 and CX-A5000/MX-A5000 Thread - Page 98 - AVS Forum
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post #2911 of 2936 Old 07-19-2014, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post
i have an rx a830, and was wondering if you guys could help me. It has capability to measure in 8 positions. I have a large l shaped sectional in the room- does it matter where you start measuring? Do the first positions measured carry more "weight" in the final result or are they just equalized to give the best response in all seating positions? If the latter is the case, does it mean that the primary listening positions may not be getting the best sound?
How many positions do you use?
Thanks
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1 at primary position and about a foot apart.
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post #2912 of 2936 Old 07-19-2014, 07:13 PM
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Originally Posted by hmunster2 View Post
I have an RX A830, and was wondering if you guys could help me. It has capability to measure in 8 positions. I have a large L shaped sectional in the room- does it matter where you start measuring? Do the first positions measured carry more "weight" in the final result or are they just equalized to give the best response in all seating positions? If the latter is the case, does it mean that the primary listening positions may not be getting the best sound?

I would do all 8 positions, but exclude any that are far from the primary position. i.e. use a fairly tight cluster around the primary seat and the seats adjacent to it.

And make sure you do the primary position first, because that's the only one used to set speaker distances and levels.
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post #2913 of 2936 Old 07-19-2014, 07:37 PM
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I've got an 11.1 question. Which is better Yamaha's with Presence or the others with Wides and Heights. I have been using the 3030 for the past couple of weeks and I've gotta say it has been a real treat and quite a step-up from my old Pioneer SC-25. But with the presence restricting the last 2 channels to the rear I will never get to use them in my home as the layout prohibits it. Am I missing anything major without the rears (I think that the front presence adds a definite new dimension) Would I get more out of, say a Denon 4520, with the ability to use all of the extra channels up front, or would it not make that big of a difference.
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post #2914 of 2936 Old 07-20-2014, 07:25 AM
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^ Rears definitely add something, if you have at least a few feet behind you (but it's never good to have the listening position right up against the back wall, so you should try to get those few feet if you don't already have it). Once you have rear surrounds you can move the side surrounds forward a bit to fill in the sound field and reduce the need for wides.

But if you really want 11.1 I would wait for the 3040 with Dolby Atmos support that adds overhead speakers and should really make a difference.
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post #2915 of 2936 Old 07-20-2014, 08:59 AM
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Originally Posted by kriktsemaj99 View Post
^ Rears definitely add something, if you have at least a few feet behind you (but it's never good to have the listening position right up against the back wall, so you should try to get those few feet if you don't already have it). Once you have rear surrounds you can move the side surrounds forward a bit to fill in the sound field and reduce the need for wides.

But if you really want 11.1 I would wait for the 3040 with Dolby Atmos support that adds overhead speakers and should really make a difference.
Thanks. Right now I have an unusual set-up that works well right now. The rear surround back is Klipsch Bipolar speakers that are against a wall on either side of a couch. The right surround back is right above the right rear surround (Klipsch KSF S5 bipolar) and the left surround is adjacent to the right on the other side of the sweet spot.
Due to making wife happy it is not the best but it is better than no system at all, so I am willing to make some compromises. So putting rear presence on that back wall would put essentially 5 speakers on that wall. I guess that can be done, and I will probably experiment, it could work with 3 bipolars and 2 front firing.
Don't really want to wait for 3040 now as I got a great deal on the 3030 ($1k less than MSRP). The only reason that I would want attempt to use another brand like the Denon 4520, is that I would be able to get the 11.1 by utilizing the front 4 speakers in the wides and heights approach. Oh and the fact on how much the 4520 is discounted now as well.

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post #2916 of 2936 Old 07-20-2014, 02:45 PM
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Tge interesting question will be how Yamaha is imlementing Dolby Atmos in regards to the available speaker channels. If the CX A 5000 sucessor will only be able to handle 11 channels then you can either have Yamahas own presence speakers also used for Atmos or if installing real ceiling speakers you have to skip the presencee speakers. I a, hoping for a 15 channel solution but am at this point of time a little bit skeptical if Yamaha will go that way?
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post #2917 of 2936 Old 07-20-2014, 03:03 PM
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I have been wondering how Yamaha will do this as well. I recently purchased a CX-A5000 (before I knew about Atmos) but now I see Yamaha releasing a new line of receivers...specifically the RX-A3040 which (per Yamaha) will be Dolby Atmos enabled via a firmware update in the fall. Now looking at the back of this receiver I see F. Presence and R.Presence speaker terminals just like the CX-A5000 so I'm thinking when that firmware update comes it "should" apply to the 5000. It looks as though they are using the presence speakers as Atmos....at least in this generation but maybe in gen 2 they will go with Presence and Atmos speakers for the full 15.2 package or maybe they'll refer to it as 11.2.4.


Time will tell but this whole Atmos thing has me very interested.

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post #2918 of 2936 Old 07-20-2014, 05:25 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Nabs17 View Post
I have been wondering how Yamaha will do this as well. I recently purchased a CX-A5000 (before I knew about Atmos) but now I see Yamaha releasing a new line of receivers...specifically the RX-A3040 which (per Yamaha) will be Dolby Atmos enabled via a firmware update in the fall. Now looking at the back of this receiver I see F. Presence and R.Presence speaker terminals just like the CX-A5000 so I'm thinking when that firmware update comes it "should" apply to the 5000. It looks as though they are using the presence speakers as Atmos....at least in this generation but maybe in gen 2 they will go with Presence and Atmos speakers for the full 15.2 package or maybe they'll refer to it as 11.2.4.


Time will tell but this whole Atmos thing has me very interested.
The Cirrus Logic chip that decodes Atmos in the first AVR's coming out was released this year..

I wouldn't hold out hope for a FW update to the older models.

There is no equivalent for Yamaha's presence speakers in Atmos...
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post #2919 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 06:05 AM
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^ Are you suggesting Yamaha is switching to Cirrus Logic DSPs for the 3040? I'd be surprised, and I don't see why the TI DSPs they use currently couldn't decode Atmos with a firmware update. They are very unlikely to update the 3030 and older models, but could make a special case for the 5000 since it was sold as a flagship model that often gets longer support.

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post #2920 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 06:48 AM
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^ Are you suggesting Yamaha is switching to Cirrus Logic DSPs for the 3040? I'd be surprised, and I don't see why the TI DSPs they use currently couldn't decode Atmos with a firmware update. They are very unlikely to update the 3030 and older models, but could make a special case for the 5000 since it was sold as a flagship model that often gets longer support.
As I mentioned in an earlier post the Yamaha rep explicitely told me not to go for a CX A 5000 but to wait for the IFA in Berlin beginning of September. So a FW update seems not likely. Also if a FW update would be possible why haven' t they announced ut proudly?
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post #2921 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 10:24 AM
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^ Agreed it does not look promising for an Atmos update to the A5000, but I still think they could do it if they wanted to (that's probably true even of the ancient Z11). Clearly it doesn't make business sense to keep updating old products, but I'd be pretty annoyed if I'd bought the "flagship" A5000 only to find it obsolete one year after introduction.
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post #2922 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 11:11 AM
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As I mentioned in an earlier post the Yamaha rep explicitely told me not to go for a CX A 5000 but to wait for the IFA in Berlin beginning of September. So a FW update seems not likely. Also if a FW update would be possible why haven' t they announced ut proudly?
Dagnabit...I wish I had known that back in March when I bought my 5000. But somehow I still believe there will be a firmware update for the 5000 to enable Atmos. If that means re-positioning the presence speakers to the ceiling, so be it, but we're not talking a run of the mill receiver here...it was (still is I believe) the flagship in the Aventage line.


Maybe I'm just being hopeful but this is why I no longer buy multi thousand $$ processors anymore.


Yeah, I know 2.5k is multi thousand but you all know what I mean.

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post #2923 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 11:30 AM
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I just purchased the 5000. I don't think Dolby atoms will be worth the wait. Unless you are talking 2 or 3 processors down the road. They have to work out the kinks, figure out what dots is going to do and what blu ray movies will have with Dolby Atmos or dts Uhd decoding! I'll wait it out
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I just purchased the 5000. I don't think Dolby atoms will be worth the wait. Unless you are talking 2 or 3 processors down the road. They have to work out the kinks, figure out what dots is going to do and what blu ray movies will have with Dolby Atmos or dts Uhd decoding! I'll wait it out
I agree. I've had my CX-A5000 for almost a year now and am not losing any sleep over the omission of Atmos. I agree that it will be quite awhile before it has any traction in home theater, if ever. Seems to me, the traction is in sound bars (which I have zero interest in).
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I agree. I've had my CX-A5000 for almost a year now and am not losing any sleep over the omission of Atmos. I agree that it will be quite awhile before it has any traction in home theater, if ever. Seems to me, the traction is in sound bars (which I have zero interest in).
I'm glad you guys are enjoying your A5000's but I do believe Atmos will take off for the home. I think it will open up our theaters incredibly. I do believe (however) that it will take a generation or two to make it perfect. Still lots of questions regarding how to properly set it up in the home.


I (to) am enjoying the 11.2 set-up I have with my A5000 but I know I will enjoy Atmos as well.

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post #2926 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 10:21 PM
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Hi all. Just got the beast! Slowly coming to grips with it. Couple of initial questions I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with:

1. On the Option key there are a number of things you can change. The manual says "You can configure separate playback settings for different playback sources". However, most of the options say "Input: All" at the top. I'd like to do things like increase the Dialog level for movie sources, but not for music sources (obviously). Am I missing something? I hope the answer's not to use Scenes, because i'll have more than 4 configurations, and the rest are so hard to get to, let alone get them into a programmable remote like a Harmony.

2. If you configure speaker levels manually, the volume of the sound played through the speakers is subject to the unit's volume control. How would I then set the levels (using a sound pressure meter) to any sort of a reference level?

3. I think I'd like to use the Straight setting for listening to music. I have my mains set as small with a 40Hz crossover to my Velodyne sub. Does bass management still apply when using Straight? The review article by Kal Rubinson implied it doesn't, but I have a feeling it does.

4. Sometimes when I switch the unit on, the picture from my HDMI-connected Beyonwiz PVR has a very purple haze over it (on a Panasonic VT65 plasma). Switching to another input on the Yamaha and back again fixes it. Does this sound like a handshaking issue? The Beyonwiz is continually powered on. Any clue how to fix it? Maybe a different power on sequence?

That's it for now. Thanks for any pointers, and I look forward to participating in the discussions here...
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Originally Posted by sddawson View Post
Hi all. Just got the beast! Slowly coming to grips with it. Couple of initial questions I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with:

1. On the Option key there are a number of things you can change. The manual says "You can configure separate playback settings for different playback sources". However, most of the options say "Input: All" at the top. I'd like to do things like increase the Dialog level for movie sources, but not for music sources (obviously). Am I missing something? I hope the answer's not to use Scenes, because i'll have more than 4 configurations, and the rest are so hard to get to, let alone get them into a programmable remote like a Harmony.
If you enter your receiver's LAN ip address followed by /setup (e.g. 192.168.1.104/setup) in a web browser it will give you access to controls. Click on top-menu, expand system, expand input/output and expand volume_trim. You can adjust volume of all input sources up to -6.0 dB/6.0 dB.

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2. If you configure speaker levels manually, the volume of the sound played through the speakers is subject to the unit's volume control. How would I then set the levels (using a sound pressure meter) to any sort of a reference level?

3. I think I'd like to use the Straight setting for listening to music. I have my mains set as small with a 40Hz crossover to my Velodyne sub. Does bass management still apply when using Straight? The review article by Kal Rubinson implied it doesn't, but I have a feeling it does.

4. Sometimes when I switch the unit on, the picture from my HDMI-connected Beyonwiz PVR has a very purple haze over it (on a Panasonic VT65 plasma). Switching to another input on the Yamaha and back again fixes it. Does this sound like a handshaking issue? The Beyonwiz is continually powered on. Any clue how to fix it? Maybe a different power on sequence?

That's it for now. Thanks for any pointers, and I look forward to participating in the discussions here...
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post #2928 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 10:50 PM
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Originally Posted by sddawson View Post
Hi all. Just got the beast! Slowly coming to grips with it. Couple of initial questions I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with:

4. Sometimes when I switch the unit on, the picture from my HDMI-connected Beyonwiz PVR has a very purple haze over it (on a Panasonic VT65 plasma). Switching to another input on the Yamaha and back again fixes it. Does this sound like a handshaking issue? The Beyonwiz is continually powered on. Any clue how to fix it? Maybe a different power on sequence?

That's it for now. Thanks for any pointers, and I look forward to participating in the discussions here...
I have same beyonwiz set up, going to a projector. It is handshaking. I have just configured my power on sequence to first start up in an unused input then switch to the PVR input. I played with timings and sequencing, but this was the simplest solution for me.
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post #2929 of 2936 Old Yesterday, 11:32 PM
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If you enter your receiver's LAN ip address followed by /setup (e.g. 192.168.1.104/setup) in a web browser it will give you access to controls. Click on top-menu, expand system, expand input/output and expand volume_trim. You can adjust volume of all input sources up to -6.0 dB/6.0 dB.
I was looking at various Option menu items, including Dialog Level (which lifts the volume of just dialog), which is different to Volume Trim. It just seems weird that most of the options on the Option menu seem to apply to all inputs, not just the input you're on. I would think there would be a requirement to have things like Dialog Level and Video Mode apply only to certain sources. Can't help thinking I'm missing something!

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I have same beyonwiz set up, going to a projector. It is handshaking. I have just configured my power on sequence to first start up in an unused input then switch to the PVR input. I played with timings and sequencing, but this was the simplest solution for me.
I have problems sometimes with another Beyonwiz going to a projector, although different symptoms. Good thought about starting up in another input. Thanks for that!
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post #2930 of 2936 Old Today, 05:35 AM
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Originally Posted by sddawson View Post
Hi all. Just got the beast! Slowly coming to grips with it. Couple of initial questions I'm hoping someone might be able to help me with:

1. On the Option key there are a number of things you can change. The manual says "You can configure separate playback settings for different playback sources". However, most of the options say "Input: All" at the top. I'd like to do things like increase the Dialog level for movie sources, but not for music sources (obviously). Am I missing something? I hope the answer's not to use Scenes, because i'll have more than 4 configurations, and the rest are so hard to get to, let alone get them into a programmable remote like a Harmony.
I'm not sure which "beast" arrived, but I have the 2030. When I go to options and select "volume trim" it gives me adjustments for "input trim" and "subwoofer trim". Subwoofer trim applies to all inputs. Volume trim is only applied to the input currently in use so you can set adjustments for each input.
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post #2931 of 2936 Old Today, 05:48 AM
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I'm not sure which "beast" arrived, but I have the 2030. When I go to options and select "volume trim" it gives me adjustments for "input trim" and "subwoofer trim". Subwoofer trim applies to all inputs. Volume trim is only applied to the input currently in use so you can set adjustments for each input.
Sorry, orcrone, forgot this was a thread for multiple devices. I meant the CX-A5000. This has an option called Dialog Level, which just raises the volume of voices (based on their normal frequencies I guess). The Option button gives access to a few options like this, but most of them only seem to apply to all inputs.
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Sorry, orcrone, forgot this was a thread for multiple devices. I meant the CX-A5000. This has an option called Dialog Level, which just raises the volume of voices (based on their normal frequencies I guess). The Option button gives access to a few options like this, but most of them only seem to apply to all inputs.
But no volume trim? Seems odd the 2030 would have an option that's missing on yours.

I just looked at your owner's manual. Looks like your volume trim works the same as mine.
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2. If you configure speaker levels manually, the volume of the sound played through the speakers is subject to the unit's volume control. How would I then set the levels (using a sound pressure meter) to any sort of a reference level?
At reference level the internal manual test tones should measure 75dB on your SPL meter when the master volume is set to 0dB.


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3. I think I'd like to use the Straight setting for listening to music. I have my mains set as small with a 40Hz crossover to my Velodyne sub. Does bass management still apply when using Straight? The review article by Kal Rubinson implied it doesn't, but I have a feeling it does.
Yes, STRAIGHT mode still applies bass management and YPAO EQ. But 40Hz is pretty low for a crossover, there isn't much content that low in music. I would give 60 or 80Hz a try too and compare.
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But no volume trim? Seems odd the 2030 would have an option that's missing on yours.

I just looked at your owner's manual. Looks like your volume trim works the same as mine.
Yes, it does, but dialog level is completely different. It just raises the volume of the voices in, say, a movie track to make them easier to hear, rather than raising the volume of all the audio for that input.

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At reference level the internal manual test tones should measure 75dB on your SPL meter when the master volume is set to 0dB.

Yes, STRAIGHT mode still applies bass management and YPAO EQ. But 40Hz is pretty low for a crossover, there isn't much content that low in music. I would give 60 or 80Hz a try too and compare.
Fantastic. Thanks for that info! Yes, I'm still playing with the crossover point. My mains do go down pretty low, but, as you say, maybe there's not enough bass below 40Hz to make the sub worthwhile. While I'm here, I've noticed that there is much more bass from the sub when using something like Dolby Pro Logic (on a 2-channel source) than when using Straight. I would have thought they'd be the same, unless Pro Logic boosts the bass somehow. Any thoughts?
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post #2935 of 2936 Old Today, 02:56 PM
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Not really sure why you hear more from the sub when using PLII on a 2-channel source, but logically it would have to play louder to keep up with 5 speakers instead of 2.
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post #2936 of 2936 Old Today, 03:56 PM - Thread Starter
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^ Are you suggesting Yamaha is switching to Cirrus Logic DSPs for the 3040? I'd be surprised, and I don't see why the TI DSPs they use currently couldn't decode Atmos with a firmware update. They are very unlikely to update the 3030 and older models, but could make a special case for the 5000 since it was sold as a flagship model that often gets longer support.
Afaik that is the only chip announced so far that does the deciding.

I'm supposed to meet with someone from Dolby best week and I will get an answer.

Maybe TI has something in the works. But I haven't been able to find it.
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