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post #361 of 379 Old 09-16-2014, 07:35 PM
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Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
max,
1. I'm not sure why the test tone would be playing out of 2 different speakers. I'm trying to picture the menu in my head but I can't think of a setting that would allow or disallow that. A call to Emotiva might help with that. It seems like it would be something simple that could fix it though.

2. Not sure what you're asking here. Are you asking how the sub crossover works? It's a low pass filter. If you set it to 200 Hz, it will send everything from 200 Hz and below to the sub and attenuate everything above it on that channel. The crossovers for your main speakers are high pass filters. If you set it to 80 Hz, the processor will send everything from 80 Hz and above to that channel and attenuate the lower frequencies. It sounds like you already knew that though.

If you were asking about the sub crossover affecting 2 channel music, then I would say that it should depend on what mode you are in on the Sherbourn. If you are in Stereo mode, then yes your crossovers are being used. I think there is some sort of pure direct mode that sends full range signals to your mains and doesn't use any crossovers or processing at all.

Something tells me I didn't answer your question but I'm not sure I understood it correctly.
#1 was a user error, got it fixed.

#2 is a problem. Because I want the LFE channel in films to have a 200Hz lowpass, but when I set it that way, even if my mains are set at 80, the sound from the mains is being duplicated by the sub from 80-200, way too boomy and muddy. I have to match the subwoofer crossover to my mains to play stereo sound well. The manual implies that the subwoofer crossover point only affects the LFE channel, and the subwoffer will cross to all the LCRS at the setpoints for thos espeakers, but I have not found that to be true.

The parametric EQ on this unit is horrible as well, have a minidsp nanoavr on its way to shore up this unit's discrepancies. I'm sure a firmware upgrade could fix these problems, but I am not sure one is coming... I am essentially using the PT-7030 as an 8-channel 'bump box' to drive the pro amps that have XLR inputs without any ground loop troubles...

JSS
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post #362 of 379 Old 09-16-2014, 09:39 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post
I'm sure a firmware upgrade could fix these problems, but I am not sure one is coming...
One was promised, which is one of the reasons I bought the unit...then after they sold all of the ones on clearance they said they wouldn't release a firmware update.
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post #363 of 379 Old 09-17-2014, 07:01 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post
#1 was a user error, got it fixed.

#2 is a problem. Because I want the LFE channel in films to have a 200Hz lowpass, but when I set it that way, even if my mains are set at 80, the sound from the mains is being duplicated by the sub from 80-200, way too boomy and muddy. I have to match the subwoofer crossover to my mains to play stereo sound well. The manual implies that the subwoofer crossover point only affects the LFE channel, and the subwoffer will cross to all the LCRS at the setpoints for thos espeakers, but I have not found that to be true.

The parametric EQ on this unit is horrible as well, have a minidsp nanoavr on its way to shore up this unit's discrepancies. I'm sure a firmware upgrade could fix these problems, but I am not sure one is coming... I am essentially using the PT-7030 as an 8-channel 'bump box' to drive the pro amps that have XLR inputs without any ground loop troubles...

JSS
Okay, it took me a while to try to understand where you were coming from on this crossover thing. I've owned 5 different receivers/processors in the last few years and the crossover section was the same for each one. I'm not sure what your knowledge level is on surround sound processing so please don't take offense if I get too elementary for you in my explanation.

The LFE channel or ".1" is not a discreet channel. It's actually the sum of all the LFE information from the other main channels that was sent to the subwoofer by the processor at the designated crossover point. So, the main channels, the 7 or 5 in 7.1 or 5.1, actually receive full range signals. When you crossover one of the 7 channels at 80 hz, then you are using a high pass filter. Everything above 80 hz plays through that speaker and everything below 80 hz on that channel, will get sent to the LFE .1 channel. When you set the Sub or LFE crossover to 200 hz, you are using a low pass filter. It's the exact opposite of the main channels. Everything below 200 Hz gets played by the subwoofer and everything above it, gets attenuated. It does not get re routed anywhere like the main channels do. So, in other words, LFE crossover is actually only affecting the LFE channel. It's not having any affect whatsoever on the the main channels. It's playing everything that gets sent in it's direction that is below 200 Hz. The problem that you are experiencing is that your main channels are producing everything above 80 hz. This is why you have muddy bass. You are doubling up the bass reproduction between your mains and sub. Change your main crossover to 200 hz, which is not recommended, or change the LFE crossover to 80 hz, which is highly recommended. The main crossovers need to match the LFE crossover to avoid the issues you are having.

You have the mains set to the standard 80 hz. Why would you want the sub at 200 Hz? That's not making sense to me.

I'm not sure if my explanation made any sense but I promise you that the 7030's crossovers are working far better than the Parametric EQ.


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post #364 of 379 Old 09-18-2014, 05:02 PM
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The LFE channel is a discrete channel. I have been measuring movie soundtracks for quite some time:

http://data-bass.ipbhost.com/index.p...mes-music-etc/

The 'subwoofer out' should be the lowpassed data from L/C/R/S channels + the LFE channel with its own lowpass, with the LFE channel weighted +10dB.

The Sherbourn 'subwoofer' crossover should only affect the LFE channel, per the manual. But it appears not to. The subwoofer out appears to be summed prior to the highpassing for the individual L/C/R/S, and then and only then is the 'subwoofer' lowpass applied by my unit. Which means, if you have all of your L/C/R/S crossovers set at 80, but your 'subwoofer' crossover at 200 (to prevent from losing info in the LFE channel, I have measured strong >120Hz signals in the LFE channel), the subwoofer out will contain information duplicated by the L/C/R/S, and too much midbass will result, which I have experienced. I have tried several times, and unless the crossover frequencies match, there is distinct overlap, and it does not sound right. Another error I wish I would have known about before I bought this unit.

I will have to measure to make sure, but I think I am correct.

The manual states only the LFE channel should be affected; in practice so far, this is not the case.

This unit has so much potential.

JSS
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post #365 of 379 Old 09-18-2014, 05:19 PM
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Thanks maxmercy. I haven't done any testing but I think I was seeing the same duplication of midbass and it didn't sound good...now I know why. I'm now using a MiniDSP NanoAVR so can circumvent those limitations.
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post #366 of 379 Old 09-18-2014, 11:03 PM
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Exclamation Pt 7030 + pa 7-350

Hi Guys,

I'm wondering if someone here can kindly help me make the right decision. I'm sure there must be someone here using a PA 7-350 with their PT 7030 processor. I am in the middle of an installation and need urgent help / advice.

My 7-350 is on a dedicated 220V/30A circuit (as required and mentioned in the PA 7-350 manual). However, I am faced with a bit of a dilemma. As I get voltage fluctuations in the power grid, I am thinking of incorporating a voltage stabilizer to get constant 220V at all times. The problem I have is that a 20A stabilizer is reasonably priced but a 30A stabilizer is proving to be far too expensive.

I know lab conditions demands proper 30A at 220V for optimal results but will a 20A stabiliser in the mix be sufficient for movies and music considering the fact that I will be using seven 4 ohm speakers ?

Any help will be appreciated.
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post #367 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 04:28 AM
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menu brings up a black screen

Has anyone noticed that 'sometimes' the menu will pull up a black screen and will not display? It seems random, but happens far more often than I would like. I have no idea why the setup text will not appear. I can't seem to find a way to fix it after it acts up... is it just me?
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post #368 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
Hi Guys,

I'm wondering if someone here can kindly help me make the right decision. I'm sure there must be someone here using a PA 7-350 with their PT 7030 processor. I am in the middle of an installation and need urgent help / advice.

My 7-350 is on a dedicated 220V/30A circuit (as required and mentioned in the PA 7-350 manual). However, I am faced with a bit of a dilemma. As I get voltage fluctuations in the power grid, I am thinking of incorporating a voltage stabilizer to get constant 220V at all times. The problem I have is that a 20A stabilizer is reasonably priced but a 30A stabilizer is proving to be far too expensive.

I know lab conditions demands proper 30A at 220V for optimal results but will a 20A stabiliser in the mix be sufficient for movies and music considering the fact that I will be using seven 4 ohm speakers ?

Any help will be appreciated.
A 220V/30A circuit seems to be overkill for a home theater. This is from the manual:

Note: We STRONGLY recommend that the PA 7-350 be attached to a dedicated power
circuit. Under real-world conditions, with typical loads, playing music, the
PA 7-350 will deliver full dynamic power when attached to a single dedicated
115 VAC 20 A circuit! If the PA 7-350 is to be used for demanding commercial
applications or under laboratory conditions, a dedicated 230 VAC 30 A circuit
is REQUIRED.

Here is a link to Andrew Robinson's review of the amp:
http://www.andrew-robinson-online.co...wer-amplifier/

He used one dedicated 20A circuit and didn't mention any problems. A 20 Amp voltage regulator should suffice. Just make sure it's a 220V stabilizer of course.


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post #369 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 06:39 AM
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Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
A 220V/30A circuit seems to be overkill for a home theater. This is from the manual:

Note: We STRONGLY recommend that the PA 7-350 be attached to a dedicated power
circuit. Under real-world conditions, with typical loads, playing music, the
PA 7-350 will deliver full dynamic power when attached to a single dedicated
115 VAC 20 A circuit! If the PA 7-350 is to be used for demanding commercial
applications or under laboratory conditions, a dedicated 230 VAC 30 A circuit
is REQUIRED.

Here is a link to Andrew Robinson's review of the amp:
http://www.andrew-robinson-online.co...wer-amplifier/

He used one dedicated 20A circuit and didn't mention any problems. A 20 Amp voltage regulator should suffice. Just make sure it's a 220V stabilizer of course.
JVoth, I really appreciate your input and I think I will go for the 220V/20A stabiliser system. Do you think going for a 20A stabiliser instead of a 30A may compromise the performance of the 7-350 in any way ?

I too am of the opinion that a 20A stabiliser should suffice but it makes me wonder if a 30A stabiliser would be better in any way or is that a misconception ?
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post #370 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 06:41 AM
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I read Andrew Robinson's review - very informative
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post #371 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 06:58 AM
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BY the way, spoke to a techie at Emotiva - He said if I was running the 7-350 on 110V then it needs to be on a dedicated 20A circuit but if I am running it on a 220V and using 4 ohm speakers then I would need the amp on a 30A circuit.

The point is I have already incorporated a dedicated 220V/30A circuit for the amp. It's the stabiliser that I have an issue with. The 30A version costs 3 times as much as the 20A version.
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post #372 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 09:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
BY the way, spoke to a techie at Emotiva - He said if I was running the 7-350 on 110V then it needs to be on a dedicated 20A circuit but if I am running it on a 220V and using 4 ohm speakers then I would need the amp on a 30A circuit.

The point is I have already incorporated a dedicated 220V/30A circuit for the amp. It's the stabiliser that I have an issue with. The 30A version costs 3 times as much as the 20A version.
Sam - What you were told makes no sense to me. I'll use a table saw as an example as mine can be wired for 120V or 220V. At 120V, the table saw uses 20A but when you wire it to 220V, the amperage cuts in half to 10A. So what you were told related to needing more amperage on 220V seems flat out wrong. It's a simple equation. V=I*R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law)

So assuming we keep the Resistance(R), also known as load from your speakers, the same, if you double the voltage(V) then the amperage(I) will be cut in half. There, the math just answered your question so you don't have to listen to some engineer. So for me, if the 350 can run off of a 120V/20A circuit then there is no reason it shouldn't run off of a 220V/20A circuit. Now granted, the amp may try to produce more power because you increased the voltage but still, the amperage isn't going to go up that much...that starts to break the laws of physics.

I'm sure people can find flaws in my logic but I personally would run a 350 amp all day on a 220V/20A circuit and wouldn't expect any performance issues. (This assumes the amp is the only load on that 220V/20A circuit).
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post #373 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 02:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
Sam - What you were told makes no sense to me. I'll use a table saw as an example as mine can be wired for 120V or 220V. At 120V, the table saw uses 20A but when you wire it to 220V, the amperage cuts in half to 10A. So what you were told related to needing more amperage on 220V seems flat out wrong. It's a simple equation. V=I*R (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohm%27s_law)

So assuming we keep the Resistance(R), also known as load from your speakers, the same, if you double the voltage(V) then the amperage(I) will be cut in half. There, the math just answered your question so you don't have to listen to some engineer. So for me, if the 350 can run off of a 120V/20A circuit then there is no reason it shouldn't run off of a 220V/20A circuit. Now granted, the amp may try to produce more power because you increased the voltage but still, the amperage isn't going to go up that much...that starts to break the laws of physics.

I'm sure people can find flaws in my logic but I personally would run a 350 amp all day on a 220V/20A circuit and wouldn't expect any performance issues. (This assumes the amp is the only load on that 220V/20A circuit).
Thanks dgage, I really appreciate your kind and informative input. Seems like I'll be going for the 220V/20A Stabiliser tomorrow morning.
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post #374 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 04:09 PM
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Originally Posted by skinnydoggy View Post
Has anyone noticed that 'sometimes' the menu will pull up a black screen and will not display? It seems random, but happens far more often than I would like. I have no idea why the setup text will not appear. I can't seem to find a way to fix it after it acts up... is it just me?
nobody has experienced this? I guess I can live with it, but it does annoy me
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post #375 of 379 Old 09-19-2014, 04:22 PM
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nobody has experienced this? I guess I can live with it, but it does annoy me
I've got one better for you. I've tried giving two demos and both times my system simply wouldn't work. I don't know what caused it but nothing/nadda would come out sound wise. I'd unplug it and come back a day or two later and its working again. I tell you, I give a hell of a demo...if the 7030 allows me. Anybody have some spare C4 that I could do some testing with?
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post #376 of 379 Old 09-20-2014, 06:19 AM
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I've got one better for you. I've tried giving two demos and both times my system simply wouldn't work. I don't know what caused it but nothing/nadda would come out sound wise. I'd unplug it and come back a day or two later and its working again. I tell you, I give a hell of a demo...if the 7030 allows me. Anybody have some spare C4 that I could do some testing with?
Oh dear. C4 the control unit, or C4 the explosives?
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post #377 of 379 Old 09-20-2014, 11:55 AM
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Oh dear. C4 the control unit, or C4 the explosives?
I use CharmedQuark for my home automation so I think I'm looking for the one that goes boom. Maybe I should just stick with letting my subs go boom...assuming the 7030 continues to let me.
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post #378 of 379 Old 09-20-2014, 09:15 PM
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Thanks maxmercy. I haven't done any testing but I think I was seeing the same duplication of midbass and it didn't sound good...now I know why. I'm now using a MiniDSP NanoAVR so can circumvent those limitations.
I have one on order to solve this same problem. If anyone knows of a good 8-channel 'bump box' that is quiet and has full bandwidth (1.5Hz-20kHz), I would no longer need the Sherbourn when I add the nanoAVR to the signal chain.

Any word on possible firmware upgrades? Or is this unit a write-off? If so, Emotiva will never see another one of my dollars....

JSS
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post #379 of 379 Old 09-20-2014, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post
Any word on possible firmware upgrades? Or is this unit a write-off? If so, Emotiva will never see another one of my dollars....
Around the time these were on clearance there was a promise of a firmware upgrade. They conveniently decided they wouldn't update the firmware after they had sold all of the units so I'd say the unit is as good as its going to get. And speaking of get, Emotiva will also never get any of my dollars.
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