Official Sherbourn PT-7030 Thread - Page 14 - AVS Forum
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post #391 of 418 Old 09-28-2014, 08:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
The 7030 does process and upscale/convert video input. It uses the Genesis Torino video engine with the DCDi’s Cinema Format Conversion and Truelife video enhancer. Those aren't pass through video tools.
Direct quote from the PT-7030 manual:

"Note: The Video Resolution setting in this menu only applies when an analog video source (component or composite video) is selected. HDMI video is always passed to the output at the same resolution in which it is received."

Direct quote from Rotel RSP-1572 manual:

"High Definition TV Monitor Outputs
Two HDMI outputs of the unit send the High Definition video signals to your TV monitor. The HDMI outputs can send all enhanced or high
definition video signals to a high-definition TV 2D (480p/576p, 720p, 1080i, or 1080p) and 3D (up to 1080p/24Hz).

The output resolution is specified in the VIDEO/HDMI setup menu. Analog video signals (Composite and Component) in any resolution can be
converted to the desired resolution, except 3D and 1080p 24Hz signals at the HDMI outputs.

Note: HDMI Video signals are passed through without scaling.
"

I don't know how the Genesis® Torino/DCDi/Truelife™ technology is implemented on other processors but on the Sherbourn PT-7030 and Rotel RSP-1572 any scaling is limited to analog video only.

Sam Ash was asking about whether his Blu-ray player output would be scaled twice since his player's internal scaling can't be turned off. It's highly unlikely he's using an analog video connection so I assumed the connection is via HDMI. The 7030 does not scale HDMI video signals therefore his player's HDMI output is only being scaled once. He doesn't need to worry about double scaling because via HDMI his TV will receive a passed through signal from the 7030's HDMI output.

"I wonder if it'd be louder with bigger wires"
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post #392 of 418 Old 09-28-2014, 11:50 AM
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My bad - I know it converts/upscales analog only - and in light of that fact why does HDMI switching take so damned long? It reminds me of the UMC-1 which I owned briefly. Thats what I get for being in a hurry - bad info given out!

The 7030 upscales to whatever your display res is but isn't automatic. Mine is set at 720P which isn't native res for my display - 1080i is but the 7030 and my display didn't want to talk about that! Go figure - so I set it at 720P and it works! But it doesn't make my old Super Nintendo look any better than running straight into my display - FWIW. I had an Emotiva UMC-200/USP-1 setup for a while but I have only so much room in the audio rack which is why I dumped the USP-1. The UMC-200 does audio as good as the USP-1 IMO.

After having used the 7030 for the past few days its kind of growing on me. I like that I can assign a single audio input to multiple HDMI outputs. Why the hell many AVR/AVP's can't do this is beyond me. This lets me listen to music from my HTPC while watching tv. And the sound quality is very good IMO. I was thinking I'd sell this in a year or less and find something better but it is very flexible. I'll see what I get after running REW.

When all else fails - RTFM!

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Last edited by Knucklehead90; 09-28-2014 at 04:16 PM. Reason: edit in italics
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post #393 of 418 Old 09-28-2014, 02:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post
My bad - I know it converts/upscales analog only - and in light of that fact why does HDMI switching take so damned long? It reminds me of the UMC-1 which I owned briefly. Thats what I get for being in a hurry - bad info given out!

The 7030 upscales to whatever your display res is but isn't automatic. Mine is set at 720P which isn't native res for my display - 1080i is but the 7030 and my display didn't want to talk about that! Go figure - so I set it at 720P and it works! But it doesn't make my old Super Nintendo look any better than running straight into my display - FWIW. I had an Emotiva UMC-200/USP-1 setup for a while but I have only so much room in the audio rack which is why I dumped the USP-1. The UMC-200 does audio as good as the USP-1 IMO.

After having used the 7030 for the past few days its kind of growing on me. I like that I can assign a single audio input to multiple HDMI outputs. Why the hell many AVR/AVP's can't do this is beyond me. This lets me listen to music from my HTPC while listening to music over the mains. And the sound quality is very good IMO. I was thinking I'd sell this in a year or less and find something better but it is very flexible. I'll see what I get after running REW.
The PT-7030 does sound fine as a processor and also makes for surprisingly good analog playback in Bypass mode. I managed to get 9 years out of an Anthem AVM 30 processor before A/V synchronization issues finally drove me nuts enough to buy something with HDMI. I've owned various Rotel products over the years, I figured Sherbourn's implementation would retain Rotel's signature sound and the closeout price with a 5 year warranty didn't hurt. I prefer sound quality over features - the less foo-foo items and blinking lights the better.

If you haven't already done so one thing that will help with HDMI switching speed is to set your Oppo and other sources to output to a specific resolution/colorspace instead of "AUTO". The less parameters that have to be negotiated during the handshake the faster switching occurs. Also, due to the weird nature of HDMI architecture keeping to 6' (or 2 meter) length HDMI cables can help. On some systems it doesn't seem to matter, on other systems a 1 meter or 3+ meter cable mixed in causes problems. I use the Monoprice 6' 24AWG High Speed for sources and to the TV, the cables are kinda stiff but function flawlessly and only cost $7 each. The Monoprice Redmere cables generally work good for long runs, I use a 15' length from a Mac mini to the 7030 without issues. I'm not trying to shill for Monoprice as there's tons of HDMI cable choices but overall I've had good luck with them.

My 7030 switches between a Cisco DVR (Cox cable), Roku 3, Oppo BDP-103 and Toshiba HD-XA2 within an average of 1-2 seconds. The video always locks in quickly but sometimes the audio takes another second or two depending on signal type. Most of the time video and audio lock in less than 2 seconds. The momentary audio delay is probably the most irritating issue but is supposedly due to the particular chipset Rotel used. It almost seems as if there's a lack of buffering as audio format changes on cable channels (program>commercial>back to program) are audible, with my old AVM 30 you never heard those changes unless there was a significant time lapse involved. For the most part HDMI is the spawn of Beelzebub and whoever's responsible for requiring HDCP should be lobotomized for the safety of future generations.

"I wonder if it'd be louder with bigger wires"
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post #394 of 418 Old 09-28-2014, 04:23 PM
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vabmwrider - thanks for the tips on HDMI switching. I'll set my 103 up for that and see how it works. My only HDMI connections to the 7030 is the Oppo and a sat box. I've had to turn the 7030 off then back on when switching to or from the Oppo a few times now - it seems to get hung up on switching to or from either. Not enough of a problem to get rid of it and I like the 2 channel sound I'm getting. It does as well as the USP-1 I had for over a year. It only has to please me in 2 channel and it does that very well IMO! I watched a couple of chapters of The Hobbit (first one) to see how good the multi-channel is. Sounds great to me. My Rat Shack SPL meter arrives tomorrow so I'll be able to get on with the task of setting the EQ of this thing to see what its capable of. I have a Dayton USB calibrated microphone ready to go and REW installed on the computer.

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post #395 of 418 Old 09-29-2014, 01:07 PM
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Thanks for your input and help guys, I appreciate it
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post #396 of 418 Old 10-06-2014, 11:10 PM
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I noticed that unlike receivers the 7030 processor does not have treble and bass controls on it, is this common on most pre/pros ?

Furthermore, it would have been nice to be able to control upscaling from HDMI sources simply because I presume the 7030 would be much better at scaling than most BD Players except the higher end ones such as Oppo. The beauty with Oppo is that one can switch to source direct to prevent the player from scaling.
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post #397 of 418 Old 10-07-2014, 06:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
I noticed that unlike receivers the 7030 processor does not have treble and bass controls on it, is this common on most pre/pros ?

Furthermore, it would have been nice to be able to control upscaling from HDMI sources simply because I presume the 7030 would be much better at scaling than most BD Players except the higher end ones such as Oppo. The beauty with Oppo is that one can switch to source direct to prevent the player from scaling.
It has PEQ which goes far beyond the standard bass/treble controls on other equipment.
Does your display unit do a poor job of scaling?
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post #398 of 418 Old 10-07-2014, 08:29 AM
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Originally Posted by MUDCAT45 View Post
It has PEQ which goes far beyond the standard bass/treble controls on other equipment.
Does your display unit do a poor job of scaling?
Hi Madcat, thank you for your input. Yes, you're right about the PEQ. Do you use the PEQ in conjunction with a measuring device or have you manually set it to suit your taste ?

Well, my BD Player does a better job of scaling than my display device. However, I believe the scaling chip/algorithms in the 7030 may be far superior than my player.
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post #399 of 418 Old 10-10-2014, 04:20 PM
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I will have to sell this complete POS pre/pro, if anyone will actually buy it.

1. Subwoofer crossovers are wrong.
2. Clips the subwoofer out (RCA and XLR) with a strong signal.
3. Noise floor is audible with high sensitivity speakers, and more so when the input is turned down to avoid #2 . I tried several different blu-ray players, The PT-7030 is the problem.
4. Turn on thump.
5. Turn off thump.
6. HDMI handshake issues.
7. Slow as hell to recognize audio type, when you go back a chapter, ~3 second lag-time for audio.
8. Parametric EQ is biggest POS of them all. Each band only adjustable within a narrow range, and 400Hz-1kHz, a CRUCIAL band for EQ and timbre matching, cannot be adjusted.
9. No firmware upgrades.
10. Emotiva could care less.

I am done with this box. It is worthless. Off to the Emo lounge to find a buyer.

JSS
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post #400 of 418 Old 10-10-2014, 06:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxmercy View Post
I will have to sell this complete POS pre/pro, if anyone will actually buy it.

1. Subwoofer crossovers are wrong.
2. Clips the subwoofer out (RCA and XLR) with a strong signal.
3. Noise floor is audible with high sensitivity speakers, and more so when the input is turned down to avoid #2 . I tried several different blu-ray players, The PT-7030 is the problem.
4. Turn on thump.
5. Turn off thump.
6. HDMI handshake issues.
7. Slow as hell to recognize audio type, when you go back a chapter, ~3 second lag-time for audio.
8. Parametric EQ is biggest POS of them all. Each band only adjustable within a narrow range, and 400Hz-1kHz, a CRUCIAL band for EQ and timbre matching, cannot be adjusted.
9. No firmware upgrades.
10. Emotiva could care less.

I am done with this box. It is worthless. Off to the Emo lounge to find a buyer.

JSS
Post back if you find a sucker.
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post #401 of 418 Old 10-11-2014, 03:04 PM
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I am having handshake issues too which is very very frustrating. Has anyone managed to resolve this issue ?
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post #402 of 418 Old 10-11-2014, 05:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Ash View Post
I am having handshake issues too which is very very frustrating. Has anyone managed to resolve this issue ?
I haven't had handshake issues lately but I'm using fairly recent equipment in a recent Sony bluray and a Oppo 103...but I also have a MiniDSP NanoAVR in the mix. I'd likely work on power on order...starting with the 7030 and working your way towards the display device. And if that doesn't work...go from the display to the 7030.

But it also could be the device or settings on the device. You may want to review some of the audio and video settings on your device.
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post #403 of 418 Old 10-11-2014, 10:28 PM
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Unhappy Handshake problem :(

Still struggling with the annoying handshake problem on the 7030. Anyone out there with a solution. I really like the 7030's simplicity and performance and would hate to replace it just because of the handshake issue
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post #404 of 418 Old 10-11-2014, 11:16 PM
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What equipment is involved?
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post #405 of 418 Old 10-12-2014, 10:59 PM
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Unhappy Handshake problem :(

Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
What equipment is involved?
Hi Dgage, the equipment involved is as follows:-

1. PT-7030
2. Optoma HD83 MkII Projector
3. Pioneer BDP-160K blu ray player

I am using the PA 7-350 with the 7030 and absolutely love the performance. Just need to find a way to resolve the handshake issue which has been frustrating me.

The HDMI cable from the 7030 to the projector is just over 49 feet and I think that is what may be causing the problem. You can see the 7030 struggling to maintain a connection with all sorts of shapes and half an image appearing on the screen in a repeated process. Up to 1080i seems to eventually work, 1080p 24Hz also does eventually work after a struggle but 1080p 60Hz does not work at all. 3D does not work at all.

Thanks,

Sam
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post #406 of 418 Old 10-13-2014, 07:56 AM
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The HDMI cable/distance could definitely be causing the issue and wouldn't necessarily be the fault of the 7030. I just hung a projector and have an HDMI Extender over CAT6 that I'll be using (arrives this week). I'll let you know how that goes in case that is an option for you.

David
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post #407 of 418 Old 10-13-2014, 08:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dgage View Post
The HDMI cable/distance could definitely be causing the issue and wouldn't necessarily be the fault of the 7030. I just hung a projector and have an HDMI Extender over CAT6 that I'll be using (arrives this week). I'll let you know how that goes in case that is an option for you.

David
Thanks David, I will really appreciate that. I am hoping it is not the fault of the 7030 because I really like it.

How about a 5V injector ? Do you think it might help ?

Furthermore, at times the 7030 seems to work in 1080p 24Hz but when I press the info button on the remote under the volume control it displays some information. Incoming colour signal is normally 8-bit, should this not be higher ?
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post #408 of 418 Old 10-13-2014, 05:05 PM - Thread Starter
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Not sure about the 8 bit color but I think that would be from the source not a 7030 issue since it is strictly a pass thru on the HDMI inputs. It doesn't do any processing or anything like that with HDMI video. And I definitely agree with dgage, that 49 ft. HDMI cable could definitely be causing some issues for you. I'm not having any issues as far handshake problems and I am using a 50 ft. Redmere HDMI cable from Monoprice. I'm not guaranteeing that's your problem but like dgage said, it's the first place to start.
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post #409 of 418 Old 10-13-2014, 05:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Maxmercy,
I did some research on the dedicated LFE channel and turns out I was wrong after all. For years I thought the LFE channel was just the sum of the bass below the crossover point from the other 7 channels. From what I've read, it is a discrete channel as well as the sum of the bass from the other 7 channels. Is that correct?


Either way, I changed my sub crossover on the 7030 to 120 Hz. I don't think I've noticed a difference really but I haven't done any critical listening yet. I can say that there is no boomy sound or anything like you described. I watched Transformers Age of Extinction and I thought the bass was perfect. It was phenomenal. I'm not saying what your hearing is not actually happening. I'm not saying that at all. But, I am wondering if your unit has something wrong with it. I guess I should say, I wonder if your 7030 has another thing wrong with it to add on to the things that wrong with every other unit that was produced.

I do agree with you that this thing has some oddities. The thumping when turning on and off is an easy fix. The subwoofer out getting attenuated with a dual sub is really odd but manageable I guess. I got both of my subs tuned and sounding good but it is a very strange thing when you hook up a second sub and the output from the subs is almost inaudible. I had never experienced that with any receiver or processor I had used before. I've used Marantz, Denon, Integra, and now this 7030. This thing sounds great but it is frustrating. The thing that pisses me off the most is that this thing can provide 0 feedback to IRule. The RS-232 command structure is goofy as hell and only seems to work with the Control4's and Crestron's of the world. The unit would make a great multi zone audio only preamp though. It has 3 zone capability and is really great sounding but it's just not ready for a serious home theater.
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post #410 of 418 Old 10-13-2014, 05:33 PM
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Jvoth - Here is a MiniDSP NanoAVR bass management doc that discusses LFE routing and I think supports what you learned.

http://www.minidsp.com/applications/...ass-management
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post #411 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JVoth View Post
Not sure about the 8 bit color but I think that would be from the source not a 7030 issue since it is strictly a pass thru on the HDMI inputs. It doesn't do any processing or anything like that with HDMI video. And I definitely agree with dgage, that 49 ft. HDMI cable could definitely be causing some issues for you. I'm not having any issues as far handshake problems and I am using a 50 ft. Redmere HDMI cable from Monoprice. I'm not guaranteeing that's your problem but like dgage said, it's the first place to start.
Thanks JVoth, I really appreciate the fact that you and David are trying to help me resolve this issue. I own an HDMI cable made by QED, its very high quality and I remember I paid a lot of money for it. Will try the QED HDMI cable and see if it makes a difference although I just read about the RedMere cable. They have an IC chip known as the RM1689 IC which helps to maintain excellent signal quality through thinner and longer HDMI cables.

How much did you pay for the 50 ft cable JVoth ?
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post #412 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 06:00 AM
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The QED HDMI cable is a thicker and better insulated cable but I doubt it has any built-in cuircuitry to enhance the signal like the Redmere.
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post #413 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 10:15 AM - Thread Starter
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I paid $60 or so.
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post #414 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 10:27 AM
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I've seen a few cheap and expensive 6' (same length) cables have problems with different equipment so cost and thickness does not necessarily mean a good HDMI cable.
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post #415 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 04:56 PM - Thread Starter
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Same here. I went through a phase where I thought more expensive cables meant better sound and video. Yes I was one of those suckers. I have a few 6 ft. silver plated HDMI cables from Bettercables. I had more trouble from those than any cable I've ever owned in my life. Before I remodeled my theater I was using two cheap 25 ft. HDMI cables connected with a passive coupler and somehow never had a problem with it.
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post #416 of 418 Old 10-14-2014, 05:25 PM
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I now purchase either HDMI cables from Monoprice or highly reviewed ones from Amazon. Haven't had any issues with either but the longest cable I've tried is 20'.
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post #417 of 418 Old 10-18-2014, 03:17 AM
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Unhappy Handshake Update

Hi Guys,

As you may remember, I am having handshake problems between the 7030 and my projector. Establishing a connection at 1080p 60Hz has not been possible (1080p 24Hz and 1080i 60Hz have worked and lower resolutions work easily).

I disconnected my 49 feet HDMI cable from behind the 7030 and inserted it directly into my BD player. Guess what ! ? - It works, I am able to achieve a connection at 1080p 60Hz. As usual, the projector flickers once and makes the connection successfully. I wish my BD player had 2 HDMI-out sockets and had the ability to send video through one and audio through the other. The problem is that using coax to deliver sound data to the 7030 would not allow HD sound. I am waiting to receive a 5V injector that I can insert at the source and am really hoping that my problem will be resolved. I am quite frustrated.

By the way, has anyone successfully achieved 3D via the 7030 ? Is it possible to playback 3D movies at different resolutions e.g. 1080p or 720p ?
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post #418 of 418 Old 10-21-2014, 06:13 AM - Thread Starter
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3D shouldn't be a problem for the 7030. It is a true HDMI pass through design. If I'm watching TV and I turn the 7030 off and leave the projector on, there is still a picture on the screen. There's no sound off course, but whatever I'm watching is still being displayed. It's kind of odd really. I've never had a receiver or preamp do that before.
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