Official Sherbourn PT-7030 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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post #181 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

John xlr do not have to be balanced to work. RCA can be converted to xlr with a passive adapter. The trouble is, when you do that you do not get the noise reduction intent of design that the xlr is designed for.

So you're accusing Emotiva of not using differential output on their XLR connectors? I can borrow my friend's O-scope, but I highly doubt that.

I never accused anything. I asked the question with honest intent 3x's on the Emotiva's forum thread for the 7030 processor. I was attacked by a couple of Emotiva readers, but my question remains unanswered by Emotiva mods or staff. I asked the question as simplistically as could be asked, given the scenario I have RCA cables, if I get XLR cables will there be any noise reduction potential with using the XLR jacks on the 7030 XLR output over using the RCA to my Sherbourn 7-350 amp or are the XLR on the 7030 just basically adapters and not trully balanced output. Three times I raised the question. The mods answered other questions around mine. Someone in this thread got an e-mail and posted it publically where the Emotiva CSR said the XLR adapters are not balanced output, but only balanced input. That would mean that the XLR outs are effectively adapters and not truly balanced. The question I asked was simple. There were multiple mod postings around my question to other questions, but not to my question. Based on the above, and still yet unanswered question in the thread - I am forced to surmise they are effectively XLR adapter outputs and will not produce a benefit over using the RCA output jacks on the 7030. No secrets here and no ill wished. I was just trying to get an answer.

RCA to XLR cables are passive, cheap, and to the majority of users will make not difference. It could EASILY be wired this way internally. In fact, if the 7030 does this it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me. it was the other bugs that scared me off. Though I would like to try true balanced XLR outputs because I get a soft hiss out of my pro amps and the 7-350 amp from the RCAs now on my Oknkyo AVR TX-NR1007.

Here is a $4 adapter that convers from RCA to XLR passively -- Obviously the connection wouldn't be balanced - but would be unblanced and still work (without the noise reduction benefit) I have cables like this I use now.
http://www.monoprice.com/Product?c_id=115&cp_id=11509&cs_id=1150902&p_id=4775&seq=1&format=2
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post #182 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 08:18 AM
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I used my 7030 to listen to music last night (classical guitar and piano), and it was a transcendent experience. 2.1 was nice, but I preferred the synthetic surround modes. I know that is lowbrow listening, but hey...
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post #183 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

RCA to XLR cables are passive, cheap, and to the majority of users will make not difference. It could EASILY be wired this way internally. In fact, if the 7030 does this it wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker for me. it was the other bugs that scared me off. Though I would like to try true balanced XLR outputs because I get a soft hiss out of my pro amps and the 7-350 amp from the RCAs now on my Oknkyo AVR TX-NR1007.

I'll try to get an O-scope to see whether the outputs are differential or not. Given Emotiva's press on the XMC-1, and the much lower price of the PT-7030, it seems likely that it's balanced without being differential. Do your amps only hiss when connected to your AVR? I'm getting no noise from my speakers with the PT-7030 and my XPA-5, using cheap 1m XLR cables. I know that's just one data point; maybe others who own the 7030 can weigh in.

BTW, what were the "bugs" that scared you off? And if they did, why are you still looking at the 7030 as a possible replacement for your Onkyo?
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post #184 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 09:48 AM
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Again,  many thanks!!!  I have a feeling that this is going to work and work well.... R

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post #185 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 09:51 AM
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Ha!  I'm with you on that one, as well.

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post #186 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 09:52 AM
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Again,  many thanks!!!  I have a feeling that this is going to work and work well.... R

Yep, the setup user interface is appalling, but if you can get past that you'll love it.
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post #187 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 09:54 AM
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I'm not really considering the 7030 at this time. I read through the 7030 thread about the various bugs that multiple people complained about -- realized the install base was very small and yet there were a lot of unique bugs for such a small install base to make so many vocal complaints. Things like the surround channels rotating 90 degrees after pausing a surround sound track, audio delays on tv commercials or new disc tracks, bluetooth drop-outs, limited parametric EQ band adjustments missing many important frequency ranges, etc -- plus many more. I google searched like a private eye for all the information I could digest on the unit. Checking google nearly daily with filters for the last 24 or 48 hours for any new reviews for like three weeks. I saw good and bad reviews. As best I could tell, most of the good reviews were from people coming from entry level equipment or who were the type to set and forget, and most of the bad reviews were from people who tinker and use their receiver in a rigorous capacity and all it's functionality to the fullest. I'm in the latter camp. I'm constantly adjusting settings, trying modes, and generally tinkering. My Onkyo TX-NR1007 never has any bugs save one. On occassion Pandora net mode will not connect and I have to power cycle to get Pandora to connect to the network. That's no longer an issue since I have the AVR hooked up to a $50 Roku, and I worked around the issue for the last couple years with no major frustation.

Furthermore: I wasn't particularly excited that the Emotiva mods kept ignoring my questions about the balanced question. In addition I shared several PMs with others who had purchased the 7020, or the 7030 including two guys who had a comparable Onkyo to mine (one with the 805, and one with the 3009, and both said they really didn't see any tangible benefit from the upgrade. Some users I spoke through PM said it worked fine, some said they had loads of frustrating bugs and felt they made a mistake since all sales were final. I finally concluded around the week of thanksgiving the unit was not something I was interested in, but I do hope others enjoy it, and it serves them well. I also hope the upcoming firmware annoucement that Emotiva promised fixes a lot of the little nusance bugs. For me I think I just need to focus on a more polished unit from a mainstream manufactorer. I also am not even really 'needing' an upgrade, so I'm deal hunting -- which is why the 7030 appealed to me initially.

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post #188 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 10:01 AM
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My cheap 1m & 2m XLR's do work fine also...as do longer runs for subs, & a (of course, different) AES/EBU long or short run for CD....  Will, however be interested in what a scope tells...prob. as stated being balanced, sans differential. -R

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post #189 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 10:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

I also am not even really 'needing' an upgrade, so I'm deal hunting -- which is why the 7030 appealed to me initially.

Same here; I could probably have gotten by with my Pioneer SC-05 doing pre/pro duty. But I'm happy that I traded up.
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post #190 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 03:57 PM
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I can confirm that the 7030 does NOT support DSD input; you'll need to select PCM on your source device.

A side rant on Sony: I got used to having SACD via HDMI supported by my "fat" PS3. When it died and I replaced it with a "slim" PS3, I just assumed that it supported SACD too. Wrong - I've been listening to the CD layer all this time! But just as I was about to write Sony off, I discovered that my $120 Sony BDP-S590 does support SACD (including DSD and DSD-PCM conversion). Go figure. OK Sony, I forgive you this time! Now I can afford to buy some good multichannel reference SACDs, since I don't need to pay for an Oppo.
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post #191 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 05:27 PM
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Originally Posted by John Schlarb View Post

I can confirm that the 7030 does NOT support DSD input; you'll need to select PCM on your source device.

A side rant on Sony: I got used to having SACD via HDMI supported by my "fat" PS3. When it died and I replaced it with a "slim" PS3, I just assumed that it supported SACD too. Wrong - I've been listening to the CD layer all this time! But just as I was about to write Sony off, I discovered that my $120 Sony BDP-S590 does support SACD (including DSD and DSD-PCM conversion). Go figure. OK Sony, I forgive you this time! Now I can afford to buy some good multichannel reference SACDs, since I don't need to pay for an Oppo.

John,

If you use the analog input of the 7030 with the analog outputs of an Oppo 103/105 you can use the DSD setting as the Oppo will do the DSD to analog conversion. I do this with my 103 and Parasound 2100 preamp. Chances are good that I would not be able to tell the difference between DSD and PCM. But I like the idea of using DSD as it eliminates the added DSD to PCM conversion.

Bill


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, watch it grow and my wallet shrink ;-).

 

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post #192 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 06:34 PM
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Original post:

Ugh, I think I've found another problem - a big one for me, and for people who want things to "just work". The PT-7030 doesn't seem to support the automatic audio syncing capability that's been around since HDMI1.3 (optional, but come on). I took this for granted with my Pioneer Elite SC-05 and my Panny AE-3000U: A/V sync just worked. Now I'm back to adjusting lip synch manually in the setup menu? Tonight I just wanted to enjoy a BluRay and soak up the new audio gear. Instead, I'm in the 7030 setup menu again! Sure, I can do the adjustments. But what about variations in video rendering speed, due to the different modes my PJ supports?

If audio is lagging video, there's no fix - because there's no adjustment less than 0 for "Lip Sync" on the PT-7030. "Auto-Audio-Sync" was invented to make audio processors slow down for video processors, not the other way around. Sherbourn's site explains clearly that the PT-7030 doesn't do HDMI video processing, so they can't insert a delay for the video.

I've ordered the Spears and Munsil BluRay so I can quantify what I'm seeing.

EDIT/UPDATE: I found my Digital Video Essentials disc, and I've proven to myself that video is actually lagging audio, and by less than 1 frame (1/24 of a second). TLDR: There is no A/V sync problem.

Details: I watched "Constantine" with my son, and he couldn't see any lip synch problems at all. We watched the whole movie, and gradually I stopped "seeing" the problem. But who needs perceptions when we have science?! I played the 1080P "A/V Timing" test track from DVE, confirming that the 7030 was decoding TrueHD. I recorded this video and dragged it into PowerDirector, and I can clearly see that the audio waveform starts before the sweep hits the 12:00 position. It's less than half of a frame, 20-40 msec off. This is great news. I can tweak the audio delay for my A/V sources methodically.

I will never trust my eyes and ears again!
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post #193 of 395 Old 12-13-2013, 10:48 PM
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I spent some time on the phone with the tech help at Emotiva after hooking up my 7030 and experiencing some silence in the audio signal as codecs changed on my cable box. I also experienced dropouts of audio and video while streaming or playing a BluRay through my DVD.

The TV audio dropout was fixed by going into my TV cable box setup and changing the audio output from "Auto" to "PCM". No more dropouts.

The audio/video dropout experienced through the DVD player was a handshake issue. I upgraded my HDMI cable and the problem went away.

I have not experienced any synch problems with any of my audio/video sources. Picture and sound are properly synched. I'm sorry to read others are having that problem. I can only suggest that your source output settings match the input settings on the processor.

I'm very happy with my PT-7030. It's much more musical, with a wider and deeper soundstage, than my Integra processor provided. The detail and decay when using the PT-7030 to process 2-channel stereo is impressive. I do use the dedicated stereo XLR inputs for 2-channel.

I'm glad I got mine.
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post #194 of 395 Old 12-14-2013, 08:30 AM
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I'll call their tech support line today. I'm not sure what you mean by matching the source output settings to the 7030's input settings. What HDMI input settings does the 7030 have? I've set my sources to output PCM, so I'm not sure what else to try.

I hope I can resolve this; I agree that it's a great prepro other than this one issue. Has anyone else had a problem with lip sync? I'll try using the Toslink connection.
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post #195 of 395 Old 12-14-2013, 08:42 AM
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From what I could read last night a bit on the audio video synch features - it requires HDMI to function.

It seems complex to find clear information on this --- to determine which manufacturer models have or don't have this feature you referred to.

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post #196 of 395 Old 12-14-2013, 11:52 AM
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The reasons for my hesitation have just been compounded - after seeing your posts... and in my particular case... the shipping alone will be $220 and the duty possibly another $200... neither of which are refundable
and if for some reason I do have to ship it back... and when they send it back after fixing it... the duty is payable again...

I'm gonna wait a while to see if Emotiva can fully confirm if the DAC output is balanced and if it is maintained throughout the line stage to the XLR... instead of just connecting it as you would an RCA to XLR jack...

If the DAC and balancing has been done somewhat properly - I'd still go for the PT-7030 - as its an unbeatable value... without the balanced outputs I can't justify even a penny on this.
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post #197 of 395 Old 12-14-2013, 12:53 PM
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Please see my post #192 above - I resolved my AV sync problem.

After some tweaking, I found that lip sync is perfect with the delay set to 35 msec (your setting will vary, obviously). I also discovered that you don't have to go into the setup menu to play with the delay. Just press the "SPKR" button on the remote, and click right until you see "Group Delay". Then click up or down to change the value. I'm pretty sure that in order to make that value "stick", you need to go into the menu - but it's really nice to be able to adjust it "on the fly" to experiment.
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post #198 of 395 Old 12-17-2013, 02:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yamaki View Post

I spent some time on the phone with the tech help at Emotiva after hooking up my 7030 and experiencing some silence in the audio signal as codecs changed on my cable box. I also experienced dropouts of audio and video while streaming or playing a BluRay through my DVD.

The TV audio dropout was fixed by going into my TV cable box setup and changing the audio output from "Auto" to "PCM". No more dropouts.

The audio/video dropout experienced through the DVD player was a handshake issue. I upgraded my HDMI cable and the problem went away.

I have not experienced any synch problems with any of my audio/video sources. Picture and sound are properly synched. I'm sorry to read others are having that problem. I can only suggest that your source output settings match the input settings on the processor.

I'm very happy with my PT-7030. It's much more musical, with a wider and deeper soundstage, than my Integra processor provided. The detail and decay when using the PT-7030 to process 2-channel stereo is impressive. I do use the dedicated stereo XLR inputs for 2-channel.

I'm glad I got mine.

+1 that, very happy
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post #199 of 395 Old 12-18-2013, 10:04 PM
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Folks,
The mystery surrounding the "balanced output" on the PT-7030 has finally been resolved
Quote:
Keith L of Emotiva says:

"Unfortunately, there seems to be a lot of misunderstanding about what balanced actually means (and what differential means).

The outputs on the PT-7030 are indeed fully balanced (which means that the two pins carry equal and out-of-phase signals); which is what gives you the noise-immunity which is the main benefit of a balanced CONNECTION.
The signal path for the DAC outputs themselves to the outputs on the PT-7030, however, is not fully DIFFERENTIAL.
The outputs of the DACs themselves are fully differential, but they do pass through a non-differential stage on their way to the output.

So....
the outputs are indeed fully balanced;
and the DACs themselves are fully differential;
but the entire signal path from the DACs to the output is not fully differential."

The question I have to ask now is: Does the same apply to the other processors in the price-range - Onkyo PR-SC5509/Integra DHC80.3 and Marantz AV7701/AV8801?
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post #200 of 395 Old 12-19-2013, 01:36 PM
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Folks,
The mystery surrounding the "balanced output" on the PT-7030 has finally been resolved
The question I have to ask now is: Does the same apply to the other processors in the price-range - Onkyo PR-SC5509/Integra DHC80.3 and Marantz AV7701/AV8801?

Thank you! that explains a lot; really appreciate it.

And i will say this again; the 7030 with the 7-350 is by far (very far) the best sounding system I've ever owned. it is my first set of separates but the sound field depth, texture, clarity, and uncolored reproduction of voice and instruments vastly improves on everything I've owned (ever) or listened to (at even three times the price). are there better systems; undoubtedly. Am I ever planning on an upgrade; no.

Just wish i waited until the $699 price ;-)
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post #201 of 395 Old 12-19-2013, 02:19 PM
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DPmurphy - please list the AVRs you have owned for comparison. (not listened to in other rooms - because who knows about the remote setups - but just AVR/Receivers you've owned to compare the 7030 to)

I'm legitimately interested. Have you owned anything comparable like the Onkyo or Integra, Denon or Marantz, Yamaha - preamps?

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post #202 of 395 Old 12-20-2013, 10:21 PM
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Folks, If anyone is looking to sell their PT-7030 - pl. PM me.
I'm looking to buy urgently and would prefer to take a pre-owned to save-up for some room treatments...

not sure if its ok to make a post like this... pl. let me know... and I will edit the post
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post #203 of 395 Old 12-27-2013, 10:43 PM
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Can someone with a 7030 tell me if the XLR outputs are switchable between consumer level (-10dBv) and pro (+4dBu)? I ask this because on their website it states that the outputs are "pro" but i'm not sure if they actually mean pro audio stuff or just a marketing thing. Thanks!
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post #204 of 395 Old 12-27-2013, 10:47 PM
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Troyd,

I don't think they are switchable. I don't see any option to 'switch' anything on the back of my unit. The XLR inputs are significantly louder if using a true XLR input from a pre-pro. However, if you just use a RCA to XLR adapter and use the RCA pre-outs on your AVR and the XLR input the volume is pretty much equitable. So I was under the impression it is the fact that the pre-amp is putting out higher voltage on the XLR connector into the XLR input.

I've had my 7-350 hooked up to both an Onkyo TX-NR1007 through RCA to RCA and RCA to XLR adapters, and then hooked up to my pre-pro Onkyo PR-SC5508 through RCA to RCA and XLR to XLR.

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post #205 of 395 Old 12-28-2013, 07:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Archaea View Post

Troyd,

I don't think they are switchable. I don't see any option to 'switch' anything on the back of my unit. The XLR inputs are significantly louder if using a true XLR input from a pre-pro. However, if you just use a RCA to XLR adapter and use the RCA pre-outs on your AVR and the XLR input the volume is pretty much equitable. So I was under the impression it is the fact that the pre-amp is putting out higher voltage on the XLR connector into the XLR input.

I've had my 7-350 hooked up to both an Onkyo TX-NR1007 through RCA to RCA and RCA to XLR adapters, and then hooked up to my pre-pro Onkyo PR-SC5508 through RCA to RCA and XLR to XLR.

Thank you sir! That is what i wanted to know. It seems after reading some other posts, most pre/pro's with XLR do output a hotter signal out the XLR outputs. That wasn't the case with my old Denon and with my current Emotiva which only has XLR for the sub. I'm driving all Crown pro amps which have an input sensitivity for full output of 1.4V.
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post #206 of 395 Old 12-28-2013, 08:46 PM
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I have been lingering around this thread for a few weeks as I have been trying to decide between the Marantz 7701 and the Sherbourn 7030. I read all the kudos and gripes in this thread regarding the 7030. All in all it is a solid unit just looking for the right complementary hardware. Ultimately, despite fewer features on the Sherbourn, it is abundantly clear to me that for $699, and therefore $1000 less than the Marantz, this is a no brainer. The decision was made easier by the need to purchase a new Oppo BD player which for me will be the 103D model for $599. The outstanding digital audio processing of the Oppo was helpful, but the HDMI IN on the Oppo allowing me to plug the cable box in and get the processing and upscaling that the 7030 will not do with a digital source, clinched the deal. The Oppo also does the job on the networking via wi-fi and ethernet for sourcing internet material, so the inability to do so with the 7030 is no longer an issue. These 2 components are like peas and carrots as the Oppo cross covers for the minor deficiencies in the 7030. For the price of $1298 for the two units all bases are covered that I care about without dropping a boatload of bucks on a pre/pro as we await the maturation of the 4K world in the next 5 years. Can't wait to get this system together.
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post #207 of 395 Old 12-28-2013, 09:20 PM
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Originally Posted by cogipro View Post

I have been lingering around this thread for a few weeks as I have been trying to decide between the Marantz 7701 and the Sherbourn 7030. I read all the kudos and gripes in this thread regarding the 7030. All in all it is a solid unit just looking for the right complementary hardware. Ultimately, despite fewer features on the Sherbourn, it is abundantly clear to me that for $699, and therefore $1000 less than the Marantz, this is a no brainer. The decision was made easier by the need to purchase a new Oppo BD player which for me will be the 103D model for $599. The outstanding digital audio processing of the Oppo was helpful, but the HDMI IN on the Oppo allowing me to plug the cable box in and get the processing and upscaling that the 7030 will not do with a digital source, clinched the deal. The Oppo also does the job on the networking via wi-fi and ethernet for sourcing internet material, so the inability to do so with the 7030 is no longer an issue. These 2 components are like peas and carrots as the Oppo cross covers for the minor deficiencies in the 7030. For the price of $1298 for the two units all bases are covered that I care about without dropping a boatload of bucks on a pre/pro as we await the maturation of the 4K world in the next 5 years. Can't wait to get this system together.

I'm also in the same boat with the 7701 or 7030, but what about the Denon DN-500AV? Why should i go with the 7030 over the 500AV? Even since I've read about that Denon, i'm liking it more and more.
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post #208 of 395 Old 12-29-2013, 10:45 AM
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Ive had mine for 2 weeks now and am very happy ,one question i have is that my Subwoofer volume output seams awfully low ,like its starving. I have to turn the Gain almost 3/4, is there a way to manage/configure this ?
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post #209 of 395 Old 12-29-2013, 01:52 PM
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Originally Posted by dkloosh View Post

Ive had mine for 2 weeks now and am very happy ,one question i have is that my Subwoofer volume output seams awfully low ,like its starving. I have to turn the Gain almost 3/4, is there a way to manage/configure this ?

This is a known issue from many 7030 users including myself. But with the EQ it isn't too hard to fix. I increased the lowest 3 bands as well as moved the frequency range of those three bands and had great results.

I do agree though it shouldn't be that hard to get the LFE how it should be.
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post #210 of 395 Old 12-29-2013, 04:32 PM
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Troyd,

That Denon unit looks pretty good. That is s judgment call as to whether it is worth the extra $400 bucks for the Denon. Looks like either would be a good call. I just wanted to get a good pre/pro at a low price knowing that this purchase will be relegated in the next 5 years to another room when all the HDMI 2.0, HDbaseT and 4K issues get worked out and prices fall. Good luck with your decision.
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