What's most important - AMP, Subwoofer or Speakers? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 01:56 AM - Thread Starter
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I want to create a good system and all I have right now is T1 headphones. I currently have the opportunity to buy the Velodyne 10" SPL-Ultra for $937 which is a bargain - but bit more than I would have ever wanted to spend. Because I don't know much, out of the AMP, subwoofer and speakers, which is the most important where you should put most your money into?
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post #2 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 06:18 AM
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The best amp/receiver in the world won't make mediocre speakers sound good. Good speakers on a mediocre amp/receiver will still sound good. Spend significantly more on your speakers and sub, just buy a receiver that has the features and build quality you require. In my opinion of course.
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post #3 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 06:21 AM
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Agreed. Get good speakers and they will last you for a long time.

You will replace your AVR every 5 years as new technology makes that desirable, but good speakers can last for decades.

A good sub is nice, but not as important as good speakers. (Who cares if the explosion has some distortion, but you will really care if the voices sound bad.)

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post #4 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 06:31 AM
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I would have to say it's:

1. Speakers
2. Subwoofer
3. Receiver

As it's been said above me, good speakers with a mediocre receiver will give you much better performance than an expensive receiver with cheap/mediocre speakers.

While subs are very important, I don't think they would come before quality speakers.

Also, I wouldn't buy that Velodyne for $937. I personally wouldn't spend more than $200 on that thing. I have no desire for a sealed 10" sub though.

How much money do you have to spend on everything?

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post #5 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 07:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

I would have to say it's:

1. Speakers
2. Subwoofer
3. Receiver

As it's been said above me, good speakers with a mediocre receiver will give you much better performance than an expensive receiver with cheap/mediocre speakers.

While subs are very important, I don't think they would come before quality speakers.

Also, I wouldn't buy that Velodyne for $937. I personally wouldn't spend more than $200 on that thing. I have no desire for a sealed 10" sub though.

How much money do you have to spend on everything?
That 937 could buy a ID sub that will outperform it in all areas.
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post #6 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 07:36 AM
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I"m not sure where you're located but why does that 10" Velo sub cost so much? I can't see it being worth $937 US dollars.

Speakers are the most important part of your original question.

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post #7 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 08:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

That 937 could buy a ID sub that will outperform it in all areas.

That's what I'm thinking.

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post #8 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 10:44 AM
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What is more important: wheels, engine, or gas? Answer: They are all important. wink.gif

If the amp creates 1% distortion, then you are listening to 1% distortion.
If the speakers create 5% distortion, then you are listening to 6% distortion.
If the room creates 5% distortion, then you are listening to 11% distortion.
If the subwoofer creates 10% distortion, then you are listening to 21% distortion.
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post #9 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 11:11 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BassThatHz View Post

What is more important: wheels, engine, or gas? Answer: They are all important. wink.gif

If the amp creates 1% distortion, then you are listening to 1% distortion.
If the speakers create 5% distortion, then you are listening to 6% distortion.
If the room creates 5% distortion, then you are listening to 11% distortion.
If the subwoofer creates 10% distortion, then you are listening to 21% distortion.
While they are all important speaker choice and placement will have the most noticeable difference in sound.
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post #10 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 03:31 PM
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Some of the Velodyne bashing above is just silly. This is sub with auto-EQ and thus naturally a bit pricier than most of what the posters above are comparing it to.

While the price in not exactly a bargain, since this is a model replaced with the Optimum 10, it is not terrible, either, if in great condition. This is sub with a pretty good built-in auto-EQ and it is well made, with good fit and finish and for the size, it's not easy to beat the sum of its components, design and yes, price.

Can you go cheaper? Deeper? Sure, but there will be some trade-offs. People get a bit too excited about Internet Direct products, which like anything else, sometimes offer good value and sometimes do not. BTW, some of Velodyne's products are also ID nowadays.

Anyway, Velodyne makes good, well rounded subs and if you need auto-EQ (which is important in many HT set ups), then you'll likely be happy with it.

Since presumably the room is a given, I'd focus on speakers above all. Spend as much as you can on those.

Then probably go for a receiver, rather than an amp. An advantage of going for a receiver is that most will be multichannel and most nowadays come with some form of room-EQ, which in many HT environments will have a significant impact on the end SQ result.

If you get a receiver which can do sub-equalization, you can probably get a sub without auto-eq, which will drive the price down significantly. The prices for Audyssey XT32 receivers have come down, or you can look at my personal favorite bargain, the Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer, which does sub-equalization and much more, for about $600 on closeout, which in my book as an outright steal. Look at accessories4less.com.

Good luck.
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post #11 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 04:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

Some of the Velodyne bashing above is just silly. This is sub with auto-EQ and thus naturally a bit pricier than most of what the posters above are comparing it to.

While the price in not exactly a bargain, since this is a model replaced with the Optimum 10, it is not terrible, either, if in great condition. This is sub with a pretty good built-in auto-EQ and it is well made, with good fit and finish and for the size, it's not easy to beat the sum of its components, design and yes, price.

Can you go cheaper? Deeper? Sure, but there will be some trade-offs. People get a bit too excited about Internet Direct products, which like anything else, sometimes offer good value and sometimes do not. BTW, some of Velodyne's products are also ID nowadays.

Anyway, Velodyne makes good, well rounded subs and if you need auto-EQ (which is important in many HT set ups), then you'll likely be happy with it.

Since presumably the room is a given, I'd focus on speakers above all. Spend as much as you can on those.

Then probably go for a receiver, rather than an amp. An advantage of going for a receiver is that most will be multichannel and most nowadays come with some form of room-EQ, which in many HT environments will have a significant impact on the end SQ result.

If you get a receiver which can do sub-equalization, you can probably get a sub without auto-eq, which will drive the price down significantly. The prices for Audyssey XT32 receivers have come down, or you can look at my personal favorite bargain, the Sherwood R-972 with Trinnov Optimizer, which does sub-equalization and much more, for about $600 on closeout, which in my book as an outright steal. Look at accessories4less.com.

Good luck.

No one is "bashing" the Velodyne. We've just made the observation that it's completely overpriced for a sealed 10" sub. EQ or not, you can do much better for a lot less money.

You could easily add your own miniDSP to any sub you buy. You could pick up a PSA XS15 (or better yet, an XV15) and a miniDSP for less than the cost of the Velodyne, and it would destroy the Velodyne in every aspect imaginable. Except for size of course. But it seems like the OP is more concerned with getting the most for his money, and wants quality sound.

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post #12 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 05:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

No one is "bashing" the Velodyne. We've just made the observation that it's completely overpriced for a sealed 10" sub. EQ or not, you can do much better for a lot less money.

You could easily add your own miniDSP to any sub you buy. You could pick up a PSA XS15 (or better yet, an XV15) and a miniDSP for less than the cost of the Velodyne, and it would destroy the Velodyne in every aspect imaginable. Except for size of course. But it seems like the OP is more concerned with getting the most for his money, and wants quality sound.

"Destroy?" "In every aspect imaginable?" Seriously?!

So, you dismissed the EQ, which is probably one of the most important aspects of getting decently controlled bass in the average consumer room and dismissed the size consideration. If you dismiss the fit and finish consideration, sure, you are probably close to the $200 price range you mention above.

As to something like the XV15, yes, it's a good sub and it's a bit cheaper, but it's also 24", which is huge compared to the Velodyne, its fit and finish are not as good, and it doesn't have an EQ.

As I said, there are tradeoffs and different aspects may be important to different people. In a smaller room the Velodyne may be more appropriate and it may in fact sound better than the XV15.
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post #13 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 05:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

While they are all important speaker choice and placement will have the most noticeable difference in sound.

I agree 100% smile.gif!

Bill
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post #14 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 06:10 PM
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I forgot to ask what size room are we talking about which would be a deciding factor on equipment along with a budget.
As for Velodyne I like their upper end products but they are pricey and have owned a couple of their 15inch models.
I never let room correction of anybodies flavor be my deciding factor as IMO they are all still needing improvements or the forums would not be swamped with unhappy results granted there is no cure for a bad room.
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post #15 of 71 Old 07-05-2013, 06:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

"Destroy?" "In every aspect imaginable?" Seriously?!

So, you dismissed the EQ, which is probably one of the most important aspects of getting decently controlled bass in the average consumer room and dismissed the size consideration. If you dismiss the fit and finish consideration, sure, you are probably close to the $200 price range you mention above.

As to something like the XV15, yes, it's a good sub and it's a bit cheaper, but it's also 24", which is huge compared to the Velodyne, its fit and finish are not as good, and it doesn't have an EQ.

As I said, there are tradeoffs and different aspects may be important to different people. In a smaller room the Velodyne may be more appropriate and it may in fact sound better than the XV15.

I didn't dismiss the EQ. I clearly said the XV15 with a miniDSP would have the Velodyne beat in every aspect. Except for size. Which doesn't seem to be a factor for the OP, as he's looking for the best SQ for his buck, which clearly wouldn't be the Velodyne here.

I'm not trying to bash Velodyne as a brand here, just stating the obvious. That there are better options out there for less money, and much better options for the same amount of money, when talking about this particular sub.

This is AVS, there is no "appropriate". Ha. While the sealed 10" may do OK in a smaller room, it can't be denied that a beefier sub would do exceptionally well in the same size room.

Question: You wouldn't happen to own a Velodyne would you?

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post #16 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 01:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

...
I never let room correction of anybodies flavor be my deciding factor as IMO they are all still needing improvements or the forums would not be swamped with unhappy results granted there is no cure for a bad room.

I rather disagree with the EQ statement. Unhappy results are one of the main reasons people ever write in forums - those who are happy are less likely to feel the urge. Overall, room-EQ is probably the most exciting development in audio these days.

I actually have rather "bad" rooms: glass walls and sparse furnishing. (Nope, I am not about to treat them smile.gif

I also do have two Velodynes, one DD-10 and one Optimum-10. The EQ of both tamed the rooms significantly, although never perfectly. Still, with the built-in EQ on, both sounded far better than any other subs I've heard in this environment, including a couple of Sunfires.

What has made them perfect in the same environment nowadays is another room- EQ: the Trinnov Optimizer in the Sherwood R-972.

Don't get me wrong, I am convinced that proper room treatment is likely to be the best solution in virtually every scenario. But the reality is that the vast majority of consumers either cannot, or are unwilling to do it. Most rooms are far from perfect acoustically, so IMO good room-EQ is often one of the most effective methods of achieving good sound at home.
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post #17 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 06:53 AM
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EQ can only do so much. The subwoofer itself is a whole lot more important than the EQ software that may be built in.

Anyone can boost their sub's low end until it has a frequency response of 10-120Hz +-3dB. But I'm betting the overall SPL levels will be way down at this point.

The cost of the Optimum 10 is a bit jawdropping, IMO. For less than the price of an Optimum 10 you could've gotten a Rythmik FV15HP and a miniDSP.

With the Velodyne you're simply paying for a small form factor and a nice finish. The EQ may seem like a bonus here, but it's almost mandatory with a sub like this.

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post #18 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 09:01 AM
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For a subwoofer a Chase SS 18.1 and Berhinger 3000 DSP around $1000 and will outperform the Veodyne sub. a second sub can be added to the system for 1/2 the price of the setup. Speaker with good sensitivity will make the HT system shine. It will deliver more volume and is easier to drive. For example Klipsch, B&W, Paradigm speakers. Get nothing less than a mid grade amp due to features to get the sound in the room right and other option that will enhance the system. Something with a good preamp like a Pioneer will deliver power and room for tweaking the system. Denon, Onkyo, and other brand are also great choices. A great budget sub is the Premiere Acoustic PA 150. It is possible to get great sound without sub EQ. I have done it with and without EQ multiple times with different subwoofers. Good setup is always a key feature of a good sounding system.

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post #19 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 11:52 AM
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I would stay clear of Chase subwoofers.

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post #20 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 12:16 PM
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Quote:
I want to create a good system and all I have right now is T1 headphones. I currently have the opportunity to buy the Velodyne 10" SPL-Ultra for $937 which is a bargain - but bit more than I would have ever wanted to spend. Because I don't know much, out of the AMP, subwoofer and speakers, which is the most important where you should put most your money into?

Your questions is as open-ended as somebody saying I need a vehicle without specifying the usage. What if somebody suggests a sedan and you love doing off roading once every fortnight. In that case, a GMC blazer is a better fit.

So, state your usage i.e. HT, 2-Channel stereo music, multi-channel stereo, so on and so forth.

The precedence slightly shifts if your main purpose of piecing together the system changes. For example, B&W diamond series speakers in a 2-channel stereo setup virtually nullify the use of a subwoofer but they do demand quality amplification may it be in the form of an integrated or a setup built on separates. But the same speakers might struggle in an HT setup running pod emerging scene from War of the Worlds at reference volume, so a quality sub becomes equally important.

History is written by those who have hanged heroes ...

The best EQ is no EQ ...

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post #21 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 02:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

...

With the Velodyne you're simply paying for a small form factor and a nice finish. The EQ may seem like a bonus here, but it's almost mandatory with a sub like this.

O.K., I have to ask you, what do you base your strongly held opinions on?

The Velodynes are flat, go deep and are well controlled. They are generally easy to integrate well. The benefit of a larger sub is mostly volume-related, but in an average size room the 10" Velodynes provide more than enough, in my experience.

Design, size and fit and finish are important to many and are worth the extra cost. The integrated EQ has definitely made a significant difference for the better in my environment and I personally prefer to have the EQ built-in than look at wires.

Please explain your "Destroy... In every aspect imaginable" claims, so that I can at least understand what you are talking about. Otherwise it's utter nonsense.
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post #22 of 71 Old 07-06-2013, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

O.K., I have to ask you, what do you base your strongly held opinions on?

The Velodynes are flat, go deep and are well controlled. They are generally easy to integrate well. The benefit of a larger sub is mostly volume-related, but in an average size room the 10" Velodynes provide more than enough, in my experience.

Design, size and fit and finish are important to many and are worth the extra cost. The integrated EQ has definitely made a significant difference for the better in my environment and I personally prefer to have the EQ built-in than look at wires.

Please explain your "Destroy... In every aspect imaginable" claims, so that I can at least understand what you are talking about. Otherwise it's utter nonsense.

Sure the Velodyne in question here may be "flat, goes deep, and well controlled", but it doesn't make it worth the price. I would like to know what SPL levels you're getting at 30Hz and 20Hz. I promise you aren't getting near the volume of other subwoofers in this price range.

You continue to talk of the "integrated EQ" as if it's some magical characteristic only found in the Velodyne. I don't know how many times I have to write "miniDSP" to make it clear. Any subwoofer can be EQ'd and integrated into a room with a miniDSP.

What I mean by "destroy in every aspect imaginable", is that you could spend less/equal money and get better overall performance than the Velodyne. You can get a subwoofer that is flat, actually goes deep (deeper than 24Hz), and that is extremely well controlled. An XV15 would dig deeper than the Velodyne without the miniDSP (or any EQing) at equivalent or higher SPL levels. Adding the miniDSP would allow for EQ and room integration.

For the price of the Optimum 10 you could buy the Rythmik FV15HP and a miniDSP. The Rythmik FV15HP is one of the most well regarded subwoofers around. I would like to find someone who would choose the Optimum 10 over the FV15HP.

Again, the Velodyne is a good option for someone who's main focus is getting the smallest "high" performing sub available. Fit and finish can be had with most subwoofers, so this really isn't a plus for the Velodyne here.

Check this out. Use this to see a comparison of the Velodyne DD18+ and the Rythmik FV15HP. As you can see, the Rythmik looks flatter across the board, with higher SPL down to 12.5Hz, where it drops off. This is a comparison of a $1200 Rythmik to the top dog Velodyne at $4999. If the DD18+ can't keep up with the FV15HP, what makes you think the Optimum 10 can? ..It wouldn't..
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post #23 of 71 Old 07-07-2013, 02:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Louquid View Post

Sure the Velodyne in question here may be "flat, goes deep, and well controlled", but it doesn't make it worth the price. I would like to know what SPL levels you're getting at 30Hz and 20Hz. I promise you aren't getting near the volume of other subwoofers in this price range.

You continue to talk of the "integrated EQ" as if it's some magical characteristic only found in the Velodyne. I don't know how many times I have to write "miniDSP" to make it clear. Any subwoofer can be EQ'd and integrated into a room with a miniDSP....

Again, the Velodyne is a good option for someone who's main focus is getting the smallest "high" performing sub available. Fit and finish can be had with most subwoofers, so this really isn't a plus for the Velodyne here. ...

Dude, you kind of got it with the "smallest high performing" bit, but then went back to bombastic nonsense about hight SPL levels at 12Hz. Really, what material are you going to play that contains such information, and are you really going to hear it? It's a bit like the guys who brag about their 1200W amps driving perfectly efficient speakers in a 12'x15' room and then wax poetic about the added "airiness."

Again, the Velodynes are good subs and for their size, they provide a good balance between form and function and the integrated EQ helps with room idiosyncrasies.

Sure, you can get louder if you go bigger and sure, you can get cheaper. If you go DYI, you can probably get the best value for your $. You can also use the miniDSP (or a better box).

But this is not the point here. For the average room, if your sub is reasonably well integrated, you are unlikely to ever need high SPL at extremely low frequencies, even if you can find non-test material which goes that deep. For the average non-basement room, and for most non-basement dwellers who care about the visual appeal of their surroundings, smaller size and an integrated look does have an appeal and it is often worth a few extra $$$.

Frankly, I personally find the Optimum 10 a little big for what it is and don't particularly love the tapered look. But is sounds good in my space (and it is sort of hidden, so I don't really have to look at it). It is plenty loud, in fact I had to go to a curve which shaves 3dB off, so that it integrates better. I have tried it, I am happy with it and I can recommend it with clear conscience.

I have the DD in a large room (over 60' in length) and it performs perfectly for music. I have had louder subs in the same room and I personally did not find that appealing, at least to my taste.

At the end, I am sure that the OP can find cheaper, as well as more expensive subs than the Velodyne. Depending on the room and on the listening preferences, they may want louder, or they may not. But there is rarely the need to tell them that based on some graph you half understand, some other brand would "destroy" whatever they are are asking about.

Cheers.
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post #24 of 71 Old 07-07-2013, 03:58 AM
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post #25 of 71 Old 07-07-2013, 04:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Anon2 View Post

I want to create a good system and all I have right now is T1 headphones. I currently have the opportunity to buy the Velodyne 10" SPL-Ultra for $937 which is a bargain - but bit more than I would have ever wanted to spend. Because I don't know much, out of the AMP, subwoofer and speakers, which is the most important where you should put most your money into?

You need to learn to distinguish between a good deal for a certain product and a product that has a lot of value for its price. I don't doubt that a $grand is a good price for a Velodyne 10" SPL-Ultra but $1K for a 10" sub seems like a lot. Looking at Velodyne's web site I can't find any mention of it.
http://velodyne.com/support/downloads/datasheets
Does it have some other name?


No matter what, your best value in a subwoofer is probably not the smallest one for the price. You are probably paying a premium for the small physical size.

That all said, putting a lot of money into the subwoofer is a pretty good idea. For a stereo system, I can see a balance of costs something like this:

AVR - $200 - Denon AVR 1613 from accessories4less.com or ecost
L & R speakers - $300 - Infinity Primus P163 or Pioneer BS22 from Amazon
Subwoofer - $200 and up - BIC acoustech F12 or PL200 for starters

And, to address the equalizer issue, the Audyssey in the AVR works over the whole system, not just the sub.
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post #26 of 71 Old 07-07-2013, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Ryan1 View Post

Dude, you kind of got it with the "smallest high performing" bit, but then went back to bombastic nonsense about hight SPL levels at 12Hz. Really, what material are you going to play that contains such information, and are you really going to hear it? It's a bit like the guys who brag about their 1200W amps driving perfectly efficient speakers in a 12'x15' room and then wax poetic about the added "airiness."

Again, the Velodynes are good subs and for their size, they provide a good balance between form and function and the integrated EQ helps with room idiosyncrasies.

Sure, you can get louder if you go bigger and sure, you can get cheaper. If you go DYI, you can probably get the best value for your $. You can also use the miniDSP (or a better box).

But this is not the point here. For the average room, if your sub is reasonably well integrated, you are unlikely to ever need high SPL at extremely low frequencies, even if you can find non-test material which goes that deep. For the average non-basement room, and for most non-basement dwellers who care about the visual appeal of their surroundings, smaller size and an integrated look does have an appeal and it is often worth a few extra $$$.

Frankly, I personally find the Optimum 10 a little big for what it is and don't particularly love the tapered look. But is sounds good in my space (and it is sort of hidden, so I don't really have to look at it). It is plenty loud, in fact I had to go to a curve which shaves 3dB off, so that it integrates better. I have tried it, I am happy with it and I can recommend it with clear conscience.

I have the DD in a large room (over 60' in length) and it performs perfectly for music. I have had louder subs in the same room and I personally did not find that appealing, at least to my taste.

At the end, I am sure that the OP can find cheaper, as well as more expensive subs than the Velodyne. Depending on the room and on the listening preferences, they may want louder, or they may not. But there is rarely the need to tell them that based on some graph you half understand, some other brand would "destroy" whatever they are are asking about.

Cheers.

Hm.

I feel like we're just going in circles here.

You ask why I feel other subs would "destroy the Velodyne.." but disregard the information I provide. You're basically saying that the Velodyne is all a person really needs, and that output below the Optimum 10's lowest usable point (about 24Hz) isn't necessary. There doesn't need to be a ton of content at 12Hz to benefit from a subwoofer capable of hitting this.

The point here is that the OP isn't asking for "the smallest high performing sub available". He wants to get the most for his money, and the Velodyne simply isn't the way to go here. If the OP had wanted a small subwoofer, then sure, the Velodyne might be a good option.

While I couldn't find a direct comparison of the Optimum 10's frequency response/output, I found information for the best Velodyne sub available. Looking at the graphs you can easily see the DD18+ simply doesn't outperform the Ryhtmik FV15HP, despite being roughly 4 times the price. The Optimum 10 simply wouldn't be able to keep up with the FV15HP, if the DD18+ can't.

I have no problem with you owning the Velodyne subs and being happy with their performance.

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post #27 of 71 Old 07-07-2013, 03:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You need to learn to distinguish between a good deal for a certain product and a product that has a lot of value for its price..

This is golden.

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post #28 of 71 Old 07-08-2013, 02:06 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arnyk View Post

You need to learn to distinguish between a good deal for a certain product and a product that has a lot of value for its price. I don't doubt that a $grand is a good price for a Velodyne 10" SPL-Ultra but $1K for a 10" sub seems like a lot. Looking at Velodyne's web site I can't find any mention of it.
http://velodyne.com/support/downloads/datasheets
Does it have some other name?


No matter what, your best value in a subwoofer is probably not the smallest one for the price. You are probably paying a premium for the small physical size.

That all said, putting a lot of money into the subwoofer is a pretty good idea. For a stereo system, I can see a balance of costs something like this:

AVR - $200 - Denon AVR 1613 from accessories4less.com or ecost
L & R speakers - $300 - Infinity Primus P163 or Pioneer BS22 from Amazon
Subwoofer - $200 and up - BIC acoustech F12 or PL200 for starters

And, to address the equalizer issue, the Audyssey in the AVR works over the whole system, not just the sub.

It's a discontinued model, but if you do a search, you'll find that it gets very good reviews and it measures very well -- it's fast, accurate and very well controlled. No, it does not go to 12Hz, but then humans generally do not hear below 18Hz and there is virtually no media content below 25Hz or so (other than for test purposes) -- so lower numbers may get you bragging rights on the forums and make for good marketing, but are of no real practical use. As far as size, I think some of the posters here confuse loudness with SQ: a 10" sub is more than sufficient for most home use (unless you hang out

One point I should make about the above-recommended AVR: it features the cheapest Audyssey EQ, which is not very effective at bass management. Even the XT version is not very good at it (I've had it for a while).

If you are going to rely on the AVR for bass management, I'd go for the cheapest box with MultiEQ XT32, or something like Anthem, or, as I noted above, the R-972 on closeout, which provides what is probably by far the best EQ platform under $2k or so.
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post #29 of 71 Old 07-08-2013, 02:29 PM
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There is plenty of media out there with content below 25Hz. If we don't take loudness/spl levels into consideration when discussing sound quality, then we're really not discussing sound quality.

You may not find much practical use in output below 25Hz, but many people do. Those who have experienced it typically want to continue experiencing it.

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post #30 of 71 Old 07-08-2013, 03:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kjohn View Post

I would stay clear of Chase subwoofers.

Why, I have not read any negative post on the quality, performance, durability or customer service of their sub and the CEA data is very positive.

Klipsch RF 7 based HT 7.4, Pioneer SC 35, Acurus Five 200 amp, Chase SS 18.2(2), VS 18.1(2), Samsung BDP F 7500, Asus/My Book Live HPC 4 TB

Yaquin VK 2100 amp, McIntosh XR 5 speakers, Samsung BDP F 7500
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