Denon E400 shuts off at high volume (80% + - ). Klipsch speakers. Ideas please? - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 11:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi and thanks for checking this out...

I'm researching for my friend who has a new Denon E400 with new Klipsch speakers. Unfortunately I don't have the model numbers of the speakers right now. I've been researching and have found 3 possibilities for this "high volume shut down" problem, and would like to get an opinion from your awesome Forum members.

The issue here is that the system plays fine until some volume (80% + - ) is added. The receiver shuts down completely. This usually after 1 - 2 songs.

My non-professional guess is that the speakers can't handle the power/volume. The "Front" speakers only have a 5" (approx.) main cone, and I think he needs bigger main speakers. Is this possible?

Other Possibilities:
1.) I've found the main cause for shut down is: Speaker wire shorted. This has been ruled out.

2.) From The Official Denon Thread:
d. AVR shuts down at higher volumes: A good rule of thumb is to not raise the master volume above 0db (relative) or 82 (absolute) as it may result in clipping/distortion from the speakers. You can set the "Volume Limit" setting to 0db to ensure this doesn't happen. If the AVR is shutting down at volumes lower than 0db (eg. -10db) then it is most likely the result of a loose speaker wire from one post on the back of the AVR touching another post so verify all speaker connections are clean.

3.) x. Why do my small speakers get set to LARGE?: The AVR will set any speaker to LARGE if it detects it can handle frequencies < 50hz in your room (regardless of what they are rated for on paper). If there is no sub in your setup, the front mains must default to LARGE, otherwise if there is a sub, then manually set the speaker to SMALL with at least a 60hz or 80hz crossover.

4.) Mis-matched speakers: These Klipsch speakers were recommended by Best Buy to go with the E400, but the Front (main) speakers just seem too small to me.

Anyway, if someone has any additional ideas, it would be greatly appreciated.

Thank You!
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post #2 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 12:16 PM
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Most common cause is speaker wires shorting out at either end due to loose strands touching each other which may or maynot be easy to spot.

The other is make sure the speaker impendence match what your receiver's supproted range. For 4ohm speakers, a lot receivers have either a software setting or hardware switch to allow receivers to handle this kind of speakers properly (basically add a load limiter to proactively prevent overload the amp. Some receivers don't support 4 ohms at all.
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post #3 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 12:22 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the response...

The Klipsch are 6 Ohm speakers which is acceptable for the E400. I am concerned they are just not large enough to handle the volume/power of the receiver.
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post #4 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 12:58 PM
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Actually that will be the other way around: that budget receiver may not have enough power to drive those speakers. But I would still double/triple check the speaker wires.
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post #5 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstring99 View Post

Thanks for the response...

The Klipsch are 6 Ohm speakers which is acceptable for the E400. I am concerned they are just not large enough to handle the volume/power of the receiver.

Actually the Klipsch speakers are well known to be super sensitive, mostly above 100 dB, so I don't think there is a power handling issue on the speaker side. High efficiency mean less power from the amp is needed to achive the same SPL (Sound Pressure Level).

Can you look up the exact Klpisch model #?

Tip: change the Master Volume setting from Relative (%) to Absolute (dB) and never go above 0 dB, which is know as movie reference level, or in other words a well calibrated system at 0 dB will play just as loud as the sound engineers set the soundtracks as you would hear them at your local movie theater. Boy, that's pretty loud at home, indeed. smile.gif
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post #6 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 01:12 PM - Thread Starter
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OK, thanks for the tip!

I'm waiting to hear from my friend the model numbers for the speakers, and will post them asap.

He can try this compilation of suggestions - hopefully today, then I'll post the results...... hopefully what the "fix" was.

I'm still curious if the E400 set at 85% volume could be too powerful for a 5" bookshelf Klipsch?
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post #7 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 01:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstring99 View Post

OK, thanks for the tip!


I'm still curious if the E400 set at 85% volume could be too powerful for a 5" bookshelf Klipsch?

I don't think that's it. If it's the B-20 Bookshelf speaker here: http://www.klipsch.com/b-20-bookshelf-speakers-pair then it's rated at 85 w RMS and 340 watts max. Is he running a sub and have it crossed over at 80 Hz? That could help take some of the strain off of the AVR.
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post #8 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 03:39 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

I don't think that's it. If it's the B-20 Bookshelf speaker here: http://www.klipsch.com/b-20-bookshelf-speakers-pair then it's rated at 85 w RMS and 340 watts max. Is he running a sub and have it crossed over at 80 Hz? That could help take some of the strain off of the AVR.
Thanks man, that's good to know. He is running a good size sub, but we don't know anything about "crossovers". If you have any further tips on the crossover deal, i'd appreciate it.
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post #9 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 03:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstring99 View Post

Thanks man, that's good to know. He is running a good size sub, but we don't know anything about "crossovers". If you have any further tips on the crossover deal, i'd appreciate it.

For the crossover deal I'd like to recommend the blog "Small vs. Large". You may find the link in my sig. smile.gif
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post #10 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 05:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by mogorf View Post

For the crossover deal I'd like to recommend the blog "Small vs. Large". You may find the link in my sig. smile.gif

Thanks! Great info, maybe a bit technical for me but... great stuff.

Question please?

Here is my plan right now:
1.) Set the Speakers (ALL Speakers) to SMALL.
2.) Set "Master Volume" at ZERO Decibels (0Db) (Relative) OR 82 (Absolute)
3.) Set "Volume Limit" to ZERO Decibels (0Db) (There are both Volume Limit AND Master Volume settings?)
4. Set Sub-Woofer to 1/2 Power (50% Volume) to make sure it is not part of the problem.

Any more thoughts or suggestions? And MANY THANKS for everyone's help!
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post #11 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 05:52 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sixstring99 View Post

Thanks man, that's good to know. He is running a good size sub, but we don't know anything about "crossovers". If you have any further tips on the crossover deal, i'd appreciate it.

Run all of his speakers as Small and cross them over at 80 Hz in the Bass Management section is a standard recommendation, but if his AVR has Audyssey then it could give a better picture--Sorry I haven't done my homework on his AVR. {EDIT: Even if the Denon recommends setting his speakers to Large (assuming it has Audyssey), set them to Small as you are planning on doing.}
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post #12 of 12 Old 07-05-2013, 06:04 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zen Traveler View Post

Run all of his speakers as Small and cross them over at 80 Hz in the Bass Management section is a standard recommendation, but if his AVR has Audyssey then it could give a better picture--Sorry I haven't done my homework on his AVR. {EDIT: Even if the Denon recommends setting his speakers to Large (assuming it has Audyssey), set them to Small as you are planning on doing.}

Yes, I definitely saw the "set speakers to Small" section. The E400 did originally recommen setting the Front (Main) Speakers to LARGE. This will be corrected.

OK Friends! Thank you all so much for all the time and great information. We will probably make all the changes tomorrow (Saturday), and I will post the results... hopefully: SOLVED!

Thanks again!
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