Yamaha HDMI handshake issue - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 07:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Hi, all. I recently purchased a Yamaha RX-V375BL receiver. I have a Sony BD player going out HDMI through the receiver to a Samsung plasma. About a third of the time I power on my system to watch a BD my TV shows an all red display. I've read that such a problem can be caused by a bad HDMI handshake. I've discovered that if I power my receiver off and on a few times that can often fix the problem, so I think the receiver is the weak link. Plus, before I got that receiver I had my BD player going straight to my TV via HDMI and I never had that issue.

I tried changing cables and that didn't help.

Do you think part of the problem could be that I'm using a Harmony One remote to power everything on? I hit one button and it turns on all the components. Do you think I need to start each component manually in a certain order to make the HDMI handshake more reliable? If so, in what order?

Or do you think I could just have a bad receiver?

The good news is once the handshake is established it never drops out during a movie. It's just a pain when it takes several minutes and multiple tries just to get everything working.
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post #2 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 08:02 AM
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I am currently using my Yamaha 373 (almost similar to 375) with no handshake problems. I have hooked up to HDMI my PVR, Xbox 360, PS3 and a Sony BD Player. Am also using a Harmony One. I click turns everything on almost instantaneously and changes between inputs immediately with no problems. So its obvious not the Harmony One. Really can't tell the problem but sometimes HDMI connections react differently. I've had other Receivers that never seemed to change properly until I pressed "HELP" on the Harmony or showed a blank screen for a long while.

If you have any doubt and are able to return the Receiver for another then I advise you to do so before the Store trial period expires. Why live with this annoyance.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 08:09 AM
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Try this power ON sequence..
1. Display
2. AVR
3. BD player

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 08:19 AM
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Make sure you are not using old HDMI cable. If you are using the 1.4 version, you may be able to correct the problem. I am using Yamaha A3020, and regardless of sequence, all connected device work as they should.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-08-2013, 10:21 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, all. I still have a few weeks left in the return period, so I'll try a new 1.4 cable first, and if it doesn't improve I'll return the receiver.
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post #6 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 06:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M CodeΒ View Post

Try this power ON sequence..
1. Display
2. AVR
3. BD player

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰

The order shouldn't matter. I have a Sony BD player hooked up via HDMI to my Onkyo receiver, with the receiver hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung LCD TV. I've had my setup that way for 2 years now and never encountered any such issue no matter what sequence of components I turn on.

The OP obviously isn't having a TV or BD player issue since it never happened until he bought the receiver. The problem has to be one of two things:

1) Bad HDMI cables.Try new ones. If that doesn't help, then the problem is....
2) Bad receiver. Maybe the receiver HDMI port is bad. Exchange the receiver with another one and see if the problem persists.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-11-2013, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHTΒ View Post

The order shouldn't matter. I have a Sony BD player hooked up via HDMI to my Onkyo receiver, with the receiver hooked up via HDMI to my Samsung LCD TV. I've had my setup that way for 2 years now and never encountered any such issue no matter what sequence of components I turn on.

The OP obviously isn't having a TV or BD player issue since it never happened until he bought the receiver. The problem has to be one of two things:

1) Bad HDMI cables.Try new ones. If that doesn't help, then the problem is....
2) Bad receiver. Maybe the receiver HDMI port is bad. Exchange the receiver with another one and see if the problem persists.

Incorrect...
AC Power Turn-ON order can be very crucial for HDMI components, especially when using an AVR with an HDMI Repeater..
Also since the Samsung display is not HDMI certified like many cable TV STBs, handshake problems can happen...
Thats why the better universal remote controls allow the user to program the specific component Turn-ON order plus adjust the respective time interval if required..

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-12-2013, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M CodeΒ View Post

Incorrect...
AC Power Turn-ON order can be very crucial for HDMI components, especially when using an AVR with an HDMI Repeater..
Also since the Samsung display is not HDMI certified like many cable TV STBs, handshake problems can happen...
Thats why the better universal remote controls allow the user to program the specific component Turn-ON order plus adjust the respective time interval if required..

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰

Then why don't I have any such issue no matter what order I turn on my components?

I'm not doubting you. I'm just curious why that order would be an issue for one person, but not another.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-12-2013, 06:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHTΒ View Post

Then why don't I have any such issue no matter what order I turn on my components?

I'm not doubting you. I'm just curious why that order would be an issue for one person, but not another.

With the same components... confused.gif
HDMI operation is complex and HDCP handshakes between components can be critical, especially with older/dated HDMI components...
Also as mentioned previously certain HDMI brand/products are certified and many others are not such as the OP's Samsung display or the frequently posted HDMI handshake issue with cable TV STBs...
The reason for the order is simple to understand, the HD display is waiting for the handshake from the connected AVR or source. If just a source into the HD display the operation is simple. If going through an AVR (HDMI repeater) then the AVR has to handshake properly with the HD display before handlng the source stream. Also HDMI cable quality and length can influence its operation.
Later/newer HDMI components are more robust for Turn-On operation but still issues may pop up...
If you have no such issues, then consider yourself lucky... πŸ˜ƒ

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-12-2013, 07:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M CodeΒ View Post

With the same components... confused.gif

No, different ones.

Sony BDP-S360 hooked up via HDMI to the Onkyo TX-NR509 receiver, with the receiver hooked up via HDMI to the Samsung LN32A450 LCD TV. No "handshake" issues here no matter what order they're turned on.
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-12-2013, 10:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHTΒ View Post

No, different ones.

Sony BDP-S360 hooked up via HDMI to the Onkyo TX-NR509 receiver, with the receiver hooked up via HDMI to the Samsung LN32A450 LCD TV. No "handshake" issues here no matter what order they're turned on.

As I posted previously, check the threads about HDMI handshake issues...
For Samsung products and cable boxes... rolleyes.gif
Here is a starter just posted..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481413/nr-616-to-samsung-connection#post_23523189

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-13-2013, 06:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M CodeΒ View Post

As I posted previously, check the threads about HDMI handshake issues...
For Samsung products and cable boxes... rolleyes.gif
Here is a starter just posted..

http://www.avsforum.com/t/1481413/nr-616-to-samsung-connection#post_23523189

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰

I also have my cable STB hooked up via HDMI to the receiver like that guy does. No issues here. I have to assume the problem is either bad HDMI ports or bad HDMI cables. I don't think the order should matter. Like I said, I turned on my components in random order and don't experience any handshake problems.

And I wouldn't roll my eyes at Samsung products. They make the best HDTVs on the market.
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post #13 of 23 Old 07-13-2013, 08:26 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrHTΒ View Post

I also have my cable STB hooked up via HDMI to the receiver like that guy does. No issues here. I have to assume the problem is either bad HDMI ports or bad HDMI cables. I don't think the order should matter. Like I said, I turned on my components in random order and don't experience any handshake problems.

And I wouldn't roll my eyes at Samsung products. They make the best HDTVs on the market.

Again we don't agree.. rolleyes.gif
Since we do custom AV installations for a living for many years, we make it a point NOT to use Samsung products be it displays, blu-ray players, AVRs..
Regarding the best displays, we mostly use the Sharp Aquos products for LCD and Panasonic Pro plasmas..
As I posted previously the Samsung products are NOT HDMI certified, and if I have to send a technican out to an AV install to replace a Samsung product due to HDMI issues the expenses are too high...

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-13-2013, 11:19 AM
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I have a yamaha receiver, JVC projector, OPPO Bluray player, SAMSUNG HD player, and BELL FIBER TV all HDMI connected. REGARDLESS OF THE SEQUENCE of turning them on, I have no HANDSHAKE issue.
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-13-2013, 04:05 PM
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I used to have HDMI handshake issues between my HTPC, my Yamaha Aventage RX-A710 receiver and my Sharp Aquos TV. I bought the Gefen HDMI Detective from Amazon and the problem went away. May be something you want to check out.
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post #16 of 23 Old 07-14-2013, 06:33 PM - Thread Starter
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I think I may have discovered the problem. As I was replacing the HDMI cables and double-checking my connections, I realized that the TV port I have my receiver running into (HDMI 2) is labeled HDMI/DVI. I assumed both HDMI ports are the same, but apparently the Yamaha receiver doesn't like any ports that are also designed for DVI.

I moved my receiver to port 1, which is HDMI only, and moved my Tivo mini to port 2, the HDMI/DVI port. So far I've had no more red screen.

My Tivo mini is always on so I anticipate no handshake issues with it.

I hope that was my problem. It could just be the re-seating of the cables that fixed it, though, or just luck so far.
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-18-2013, 10:12 AM - Thread Starter
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Well, I guess that wasn't the problem after all. After everything worked fine for several days I got a red screen last night. I turned off the TV and the receiver and then turned them back on with the BD player still on and that fixed it.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 06:11 AM - Thread Starter
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I've determined that the Yamaha is just a POS. It will work fine for several days and then go red screen again. Unfortunately I'd had it longer than I thought and I was past the return date before I discovered the problem, so I'm stuck with it. I could ship it to a Yamaha repair center but it's probably just a flaw in the design and not a defective part.

I've found a lot of complaints online about HDMI handshake issues with Yamaha receivers. Apparently they're just very finicky. I'm just glad I didn't pay full price for it (open box buy).

I might try a different BD player with it someday and see if that makes a difference. Or I might try using the "fast boot" option where the player stays in stand-by mode rather than completely powering off. My player takes a good while to boot up, and I think that contributes to the problem when using my Harmony remote to turn everything on at once. I seem to have the best luck when I turn on my BD player and let it boot fully before turning on the TV and receiver. I still get red screen with that method occasionally though.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 11:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZeppelinΒ View Post

I've determined that the Yamaha is just a POS. It will work fine for several days and then go red screen again. Unfortunately I'd had it longer than I thought and I was past the return date before I discovered the problem, so I'm stuck with it. I could ship it to a Yamaha repair center but it's probably just a flaw in the design and not a defective part.

I've found a lot of complaints online about HDMI handshake issues with Yamaha receivers. Apparently they're just very finicky. I'm just glad I didn't pay full price for it (open box buy).

I might try a different BD player with it someday and see if that makes a difference. Or I might try using the "fast boot" option where the player stays in stand-by mode rather than completely powering off. My player takes a good while to boot up, and I think that contributes to the problem when using my Harmony remote to turn everything on at once. I seem to have the best luck when I turn on my BD player and let it boot fully before turning on the TV and receiver. I still get red screen with that method occasionally though.

As I posted previously..
The Samsung display is not HDMI certified while the Yamaha AVR and Sony BDP are..
Certain Korean display brands, Samsung and LG or products built by them for other OE customers such as Vizio are also not HDMI certified...
You can try other brands of AVRs and/or blu-ray players, and might get lucky without any HDMI issues but the basic issue remains with the Samsung display..

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 05:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M CodeΒ View Post

As I posted previously..
The Samsung display is not HDMI certified while the Yamaha AVR and Sony BDP are..πŸ‘πŸ˜‰

I don't question you word on that, but I do question why the Samsung works perfectly when the Yamaha isn't in the mix. Wouldn't the lack of certification affect the display directly from my BD player as well?
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-30-2013, 07:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZeppelinΒ View Post

I don't question you word on that, but I do question why the Samsung works perfectly when the Yamaha isn't in the mix. Wouldn't the lack of certification affect the display directly from my BD player as well?

Because an AVR has the difficult/complex task of repeating the HDMI stream..
The AVR must extract the stream w/HDCP on the input side and re-encode the stream w/HDCP when sending out to the display.
When plugging an HDMI source directly into a display, the only process required is to extract and decode the stream no re-encoding is done. Samsung like other HDMI source component suppliers know that the majority of HDMI sources such as blu-ray players, set-top-boxes are connected directly into the display without an AVR..

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #22 of 23 Old 07-31-2013, 05:08 AM - Thread Starter
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That makes sense. It would also stand to reason, then, that some AV receivers do a better job repeating the HDMI stream than others.
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post #23 of 23 Old 07-31-2013, 08:02 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RedZeppelinΒ View Post

That makes sense. It would also stand to reason, then, that some AV receivers do a better job repeating the HDMI stream than others.

There are crucial HDMI design specs for timing of the HDCP encryption, many brands such as Samsung fail to meet these..
End-result are handshake problems like blank screen, audio but no video, delayed boot-up time for audio/video.
HDMI certification tests for those specs, without close adherence to these specs interoperability and compatibility between components can be mixed especially with AVRs.

Just my $0.02....πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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