Older receivers that can output everything over HDMI - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 21 Old 07-12-2013, 05:13 PM - Thread Starter
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Hey guys,

Its been a while since I've looked into home theater receiver offerings, and I'm having a really tough time finding a used box that can handle what I need.

I've got a good location for my players/equipment connected to my TV via a ~8-10ft duct in the wall, through which I have passed a single HDMI cable. I'd really like to have only that HDMI cable run up to my TV.

So that means I need a box that can convert analogue video to digital. I used a Denon AVR-789 for my first home theater, and while it had everything we needed, I'm trying not to spend more than $150. That, and I'd like to try another brand now. I wasn't a huge fan of the Denon interface, although it is a great receiver.

I've seen plenty of Pioneer VSX-102x-K receivers for around $100, but I can't tell what receivers out of this series (1018 through 1022, or even the 818-822 or 918-922) offer the ability to output everything over HDMI.
I'm also considering other brands, namely Yamaha, Onkyo (SR-606 and 607), and HK, but the Pioneers seem more common.

As long as it has a few HDMI in, 5.1 with A and B speakers (or 7.1), and can handle digital audio and analogue-digital video, I'll be happy. Auto-calibration would be nice due to the room but not 100% necessary.

Thanks for any insight!
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post #2 of 21 Old 07-12-2013, 05:30 PM
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The VSX-1018 will output analog over HDMI. I have had mine for 4 years now, and it is still going strong. IIRC it was last of the Top-of-the-line non-elites that was the same as the low-end elites. It is identical to an elite in almost every way, except the display is blue instead of amber. It also has pre-outs for all channels.
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post #3 of 21 Old 07-12-2013, 05:49 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdcrox View Post

The VSX-1018 will output analog over HDMI. I have had mine for 4 years now, and it is still going strong. IIRC it was last of the Top-of-the-line non-elites that was the same as the low-end elites. It is identical to an elite in almost every way, except the display is blue instead of amber. It also has pre-outs for all channels.
Perfect, just the sort of info I was looking for smile.gif.
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post #4 of 21 Old 07-13-2013, 03:16 PM - Thread Starter
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Little bump.

As for Onkyo, is the lowest I can use the SR607/SR608?
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post #5 of 21 Old 07-13-2013, 05:39 PM
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My understanding is receivers with HDMI will generally output every video input over HDMI, i.e. transcode analogue to digital, but NOT every model will upscale SD video to HD or even has many or all types of legacy analogue video inputs.

According to the SR607 manual (http://www.intl.onkyo.com/downloads/manuals/pdf/tx-sr607_manual_e.pdf) p.5 and p.25, this model will indeed output and also upscale composite and component video to 1080i via HDMI.

You can usually download online user manuals and read for yourself (just type model + manual in Google) and this will often give you quicker answers.
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post #6 of 21 Old 07-13-2013, 09:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NateGr8 View Post

So that means I need a box that can convert analogue video to digital. I used a Denon AVR-789 for my first home theater, and while it had everything we needed, I'm trying not to spend more than $150.

afaik, converting analog video to hdmi ain't gonna happen for $150.

nobody wants that capability any more, so the manufacturers aren't putting it on the receivers.

just look at the picture on the back of the receiver, if there aren't any component/composite hookups, the receiver can't do it.
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post #7 of 21 Old 07-15-2013, 08:55 AM - Thread Starter
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Well I'm mainly looking at receivers from a few years ago (hence the Pioneer VSX-1018). Used prices bring these down to the $150 range, but most receivers from back then did not have analogue to digital converting.

I've also found that any receiver that can convert the signal also manages at least some form up upscaling.

Thanks for the input!
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post #8 of 21 Old 07-15-2013, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
I've also found that any receiver that can convert the signal also manages at least some form up upscaling.

Not quite true. I have a Denon AVR 591 that does analog to HDMI conversion but it does absolutely no upscaling. The Denon 1611 is the same way.

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post #9 of 21 Old 07-16-2013, 06:55 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Not quite true. I have a Denon AVR 591 that does analog to HDMI conversion but it does absolutely no upscaling. The Denon 1611 is the same way.
That's a bit of a bummer on the 1611. There's one local for $150ish but I don't really trust my (Samsung) TV to upscale worth a damn.

I might just jump on an Onkyo SR606. I was really hoping to find a 607 for the dual subs, dynamic volume, and front panel HDMI (for when I want to plug my laptop in), but this 606 has had the HDMI board fixed already, which is nice.
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post #10 of 21 Old 07-18-2013, 05:47 PM
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The dual sub outputs on the SR607 is just an internal Y connector. You can spend $2 or less and do the same thing on any receiver with a single sub output.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2

What analog video devices do you have that need upscaling?

I would still take the 1611 over the SR606/607 because of the better Audyssey MultEQ over 2EQ.

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post #11 of 21 Old 07-18-2013, 09:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

The dual sub outputs on the SR607 is just an internal Y connector. You can spend $2 or less and do the same thing on any receiver with a single sub output.

http://www.monoprice.com/products/product.asp?c_id=102&cp_id=10218&cs_id=1021803&p_id=663&seq=1&format=2

What analog video devices do you have that need upscaling?

I would still take the 1611 over the SR606/607 because of the better Audyssey MultEQ over 2EQ.

It would be for older game consoles. I wonder if I would even notice the up-scaling.

Basically everything I watch or listen to is run through an HTPC by HDMI.

And thanks for the heads up on the 607. I thought it was for a large vs small sub, or left vs right.
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post #12 of 21 Old 07-18-2013, 10:04 PM
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Your older game consoles are probably not widescreen and your TV/receiver cannot make something with low resolution look like 1080p. The units probably use composite output not component video or HDMI. There are limitations to what scalers can do.

How does it look when you directly connect your gaming devices to the TV?

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post #13 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 03:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

Your older game consoles are probably not widescreen and your TV/receiver cannot make something with low resolution look like 1080p. The units probably use composite output not component video or HDMI. There are limitations to what scalers can do.

How does it look when you directly connect your gaming devices to the TV?
Blurry? Not pixelated, but everything is definitely blurred. That's why I think letting an AVR handle any upscaling would help. And some of them are indeed widescreen, though you're right they're composite.
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post #14 of 21 Old 07-19-2013, 05:55 PM
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The only thing that's likely to be make a significant increase in video quality would be the ability to accept S-Video or component video. If any of your consoles support component video (eg. PlayStation 2, original Xbox) then hooking them up directly to your TV would likely be your best option. For S-Video (supported by a fair number of older consoles) then your options would be a probably used AV receiver from back when they still had S-Video or a new high-end Yamaha that's way outside of your budget.
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post #15 of 21 Old 07-20-2013, 12:10 AM - Thread Starter
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Let's go with the example of the PS2. Why not run component cables to a receiver that can convert it to HDMI to send to the TV? I would have to use an extension cable for the component cables to reach my TV (stock PS2 cables are only about 2/3 the length of my in-wall cable duct).
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post #16 of 21 Old 07-20-2013, 01:01 AM
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Because your budget doesn't seem to give you that option. An even cheaper solution than using that extension cable would be to hook up the PlayStation 2 component cable directly to the TV and leave it hanging behind the TV somewhere out of sight. When you want to use the PS2, and I'm assuming this will be relatively rare occurence, place it near the TV and connect the component cable. Not an elegant solution, but you're probably going to have make compromises somewhere.
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post #17 of 21 Old 07-20-2013, 11:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

Because your budget doesn't seem to give you that option. An even cheaper solution than using that extension cable would be to hook up the PlayStation 2 component cable directly to the TV and leave it hanging behind the TV somewhere out of sight. When you want to use the PS2, and I'm assuming this will be relatively rare occurence, place it near the TV and connect the component cable. Not an elegant solution, but you're probably going to have make compromises somewhere.

That's an idea I hadn't thought of before... Only problem would be getting audio from the TV back to the receiver. The TV can output TOSLINK but can only input 2 channel RCA. So I would lose 5.1 from the PS2.

I am finding plenty of used receivers that can upconvert composite/component to HDMI in my budget:

Onkyo SR606 with the HDMI board fixed for $160
Denon 1611 for $155
a Pioneer 920k for $125
There was a Pioneer 821k that sold for $100 shipped on ebay
and a 1022k that sold for $160 that I wish I had jumped on.
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post #18 of 21 Old 07-20-2013, 04:35 PM
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Surround sound support on the PlayStation 2 was pretty poor. Many games didn't support it all, and those that did almost all used pre-recorded Dolby ProLogic II soundtracks. ProLogic matrixes surround sound in a stereo signal so it works just as well over stereo analogue connections as it does over optical digital audio cables. Only a very few PS2 games used licenced DTS encoders to allow for dynamic 5.1 surround sound. No game supported Dolby Digital except in cut scenes.
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post #19 of 21 Old 07-25-2013, 11:38 AM - Thread Starter
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Alright, well I managed to find an Onkyo SR606 locally for $110! It should be pretty comparable to my Denon AVR-789 feature-wise. I won't be able to compare the sound, as the Denon only ever had my Paradigm Monitor 7s hooked up to it, and here all I have is a pair of Boston bookshelves (for now).

I will update this with how it upscales. I'm honestly not looking for much other than analogue to digital converting, but I'll play with the upscaling to see what looks best.

Thanks to everybody for the input!
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post #20 of 21 Old 07-25-2013, 04:44 PM
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As long as you're aware of the Onkyo HDMI board failures this is a good price. Hope it works out for you.

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post #21 of 21 Old 07-26-2013, 09:25 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogt View Post

As long as you're aware of the Onkyo HDMI board failures this is a good price. Hope it works out for you.

The previous owner had it repaired already smile.gif. I peeked inside and it looks like a new HDMI board instead of just new caps, so we'll see how long it lasts.
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