Harman Kardon AVR 430 7.1 help - AVS Forum
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post #1 of 11 Old 07-12-2013, 08:50 PM - Thread Starter
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Hello, I am curious about a few things when it comes to the new amp. The amp is supposed to be capable of 7.1. I have set it up correctly from what I can tell. I have a LG 3d Blu-ray player hooked up to the amp via optical cable.

My question is, is the cable capable of sending the proper 7.1 signal to the amp? It says 7.1 but does not have an HDMI input so I used optical.

When I attempt to use it as a 7.1 system it always tells me "5.1+neo6" why wont it say 7.1?

Is there another setting I should have it on in order to get 7.1? If you need more info please ask, I am a little confused with this one, thanks!
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post #2 of 11 Old 07-13-2013, 10:52 AM
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Because you're not going to get true 7.1 from blu ray over optical. You would need HDMI for that. Most movies are 5.1 anyway.

The HK will take the DTS 5.1 signal and add Neo:6 to the back channels for 7.1. For Dolby Digital 5.1 signals it'll add Prologic IIx for 7.1.

My older HK AVR 325 does the same thing.

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post #3 of 11 Old 07-13-2013, 12:38 PM
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Depending upon the production date, later AVR430s had Dolby Pro Logic IIx factory-installed early ones did not..
Here is a link for the Dolby Pro Logic IIx upgrade..
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-CA/Products/Pages/ProductSupportDetails.aspx?PID=AVR+430

The AVR430 could take a Dolby Digital 5.1 stream and create a 7.1 adding back L/R surrounds. Also it could do this through the 5.1 Direct inputs as well.

The 430 was a well-built AVR in its day (2005)...πŸ˜‰
But again with all of the advances in the last 8 years to HD, HDMI, Blu-ray, you may have outgrown its capabilities..

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #4 of 11 Old 07-13-2013, 03:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input, I was just wondering if it was something I was doing wrong. It is still a million times better than the 5.1 sony I had last year. Much appreciated!
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post #5 of 11 Old 07-13-2013, 06:32 PM
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Quote:
Depending upon the production date, later AVR430s had Dolby Pro Logic IIx factory-installed early ones did not..
Here is a link for the Dolby Pro Logic IIx upgrade..
http://www.harmankardon.com/EN-CA/Products/Pages/ProductSupportDetails.aspx?PID=AVR+430

That's pretty strange M Code since my AVR 325 was manufactured in April 2003 and has Prologic IIx. Why was it not included in the 430 from the beginning since it is a newer model?

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post #6 of 11 Old 07-13-2013, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogtΒ View Post

That's pretty strange M Code since my AVR 325 was manufactured in April 2003 and has Prologic IIx. Why was it not included in the 430 from the beginning since it is a newer model?

You are confusing DPL2 with DPL2X..
DPL2X was not released until October, 2003....
Regarding the 430/630, I recall these models were essentially through development when Dolby released DPL2X. Harman management had to make a decision:
1. Hold the production start for the 430/630 waiting for DPL2X
2. Release production start for the 430/630 without DPL2X and do a running change, and provide a firmware update

They chose the #2....


Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #7 of 11 Old 07-15-2013, 04:44 PM
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Dolby PL2 is for taking 2.0 or 2.1 to 5.1.

Dolby PL2x is for expanding standard 5.1 to 7.1 by adding content for surround back channels. I"m pretty sure my receiver displays PLIIx when I have it set for 7 speakers. I could be wrong though. I'll check when I get home.

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post #8 of 11 Old 07-15-2013, 05:05 PM
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Check the 325, U will find it only has Dolby Pro Logic II... πŸ˜‰
However, the 325/525 were the 1st HK AVRs with Logic 7 7.1 Music & Cinema modes.

Here is a lift directly from the Dolby Pro Logic IIx marketing paper.

β€’ Dolby Pro Logic IIx is ideally suited for the early adopter home A/V enthusiast upgrading
their 5.1-channel or Dolby Digital EX home theater to 7.1-channel status. It also provides a Dolby solution for home theater enthusiasts who have already invested in a system with 7.1- channel capability.
β€’ Dolby Pro Logic IIx is the ideal choice for the discerning listener of multichannel music
who demands a seamless, enveloping listening experience and the most versatility from their
7.1-channel surround sound system."
β€’ Dolby Pro Logic IIx is the ideal technology for the home theater enthusiast who demands the highest degree of surround sound ambience and quality from their surround sound system. Dolby Pro Logic IIx processes stereo and 5.1-channel sources for playback in a dramatic 7.1-channel environment characterized by a seamless, enveloping surround sound experience.
β€’ Music lovers seeking a highly dramatic and natural sounding multichannel listening experience from compact discs, cassettes, MP3s, and high-quality FM stereo broadcasts will appreciate the highly sophisticated decoding and steering technology of Dolby Pro Logic
IIx. When used in a 7.1-channel environment, Dolby Pro Logic IIx provides a seamless, enveloping surround sound listening experience.
β€’ Video game enthusiasts will appreciate the engaging spatial effects and imaging provided by the Pro Logic IIx decoding algorithm as well as the low-frequency background ambience provided during playback of video game content
β€’ Home entertainment enthusiasts seeking highly advanced 7.1-channel playback technology developed by the most recognized and trusted name in surround audio

Though it was 10 years ago, I recall the performance of DPLIIx was far superior to DPLII. But its main target was to support EX 6.1 which was really pushed by THX, and Dolby wanted to take it a step higher to 7.1. HK never really supported 6.1 as the center surround speaker was a bad idea greatly reducing surround channel separation so HK went right to 7.1 both for Logic 7.1 (developed by Lexicon) and to get the (2) additional amplifiers for Zone II operation.

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #9 of 11 Old 07-15-2013, 06:11 PM
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You probably right but somehow I got sound out of the surround back channels when watching Dolby 5.1 or DTS movies.

That receiver barely gets used now so it isn't a big deal. Its more of a curiosity than anything. I'll check it when I get home.

The Logic 7 in 7.1 only worked when applied to two channel sources. Other higher end HK receivers would let you apply it to 5.1 sources too.

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post #10 of 11 Old 07-15-2013, 06:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by afrogtΒ View Post

You probably right but somehow I got sound out of the surround back channels when watching Dolby 5.1 or DTS movies.

That receiver barely gets used now so it isn't a big deal. Its more of a curiosity than anything. I'll check it when I get home.

The Logic 7 in 7.1 only worked when applied to two channel sources. Other higher end HK receivers would let you apply it to 5.1 sources too.

For the 325/525, one would get output from the back L/R surrounds with either a DD or DTS 5.1 stream when NEO 6 was ON. But then you were actually getting 6.1 as the back L/R surrounds were outputting the same post-processed signal. The Cirrus Logic DSP could not overlay a DD or DTS 5.1 with Logic 7 (full process) to 7.1, only an HK AVR with an TI DSP could do this...
I recall the 1st HK AVR with an TI DSP with full-process Logic 7 was the 440/640/740 platform...
I may be hazy on some of the models and intro dates, but I think am correct..
If not maybe some other HK guru can comment further.. πŸ˜„

Just my $0.02... πŸ‘πŸ˜‰
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post #11 of 11 Old 07-15-2013, 11:38 PM
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So I connected my DirecTV HD sat receiver to my HK AVR 325 and set the HK for 7.1 by turning surround backs on.

1. Dolby Digital 2.0 channels end up with Dolby Digital plus PLII - 5 channels only (no pl IIx)
2. Dolby Digital 5.1 signals ends up becoming Dolby Digital EX with the surround back playing a mono signal in each speaker. Must be an EX flag sent by DirecTV
3. Stereo signal becomes Logic 7 7.1

Too much trouble to connect DVD player and try DTS movies. My guess is I'd get DTS-ES when setup for 7 channels.

So I guess you were right M Code. No PLIIx on this receiver.

Thanks

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