Looking for a new Denon receiver. Questions about upconverting signals for NES and SNES. - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

Level99's Avatar Level99
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07-13-2013 | Posts: 96
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I am interested in picking up a new receiver as my old one (Pioneer VSX-D411) does not have any HDMI or any of the newer surround formats. I am pretty set on getting a Denon as I am interested in giving Audyssey a try and I can get a pretty good deal at Accessories4less. I am considering the AVR-2312CI as it has MultEQ XT as well as video upconversion. The only reason I am interested in the upconversion though is to be able to hook up my older game systems such as NES and SNES through composite and S-video and have them upscaled to 1080p through hdmi for a hopefully better picture than my Panasonic 42S60 gives when hooking up straight through composite(it has no S-Video input). however While looking at the online manual for the receiver it says that a nonstandard signal may not work and These old systems put out something like 240p instead of 480i. Does anyone know if the upconversion would work the way I want it to? If not, I would rather just save some money and buy something like the AVR-1712.
Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge
09:03 PM Liked: 81
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Old consoles outputed NTSC standard video or they wouldn't have worked with any TV sold in the US or Japan. However, you may have compatibilty problems with older devices like the manual indicates. If this is important to you then I wouldn't recommend purchasing this or any AV receiver unless you can easily return it if it doesn't work.
Level99's Avatar Level99
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Interesting. I realize it is NTSC but have often read that they put out a lower resolution but tvs treat it as 480i. This wasn't a problem for old crts but hdtvs have some issues with it. The manual states "When a non-standard video signal from a game machine or some other source is input, the video conversion function might not operate". It doesn't say older devices just non-standard.
Level99's Avatar Level99
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Here is a Wikipedia page about it :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low-definition_television

A quote from the page:
"Older video game consoles and home computers generated a nonstandard NTSC or PAL signal which placed both fields on top of each other. This is equivalent to 240p and 288p respectively, and was used due to requiring less resources and producing a progressive and stable signal"
Ross Ridge's Avatar Ross Ridge
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07-14-2013 | Posts: 1,550
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Wikipedia is wrong. You can't "put fields on top of each other", and the referenced articles don't claim this.

CRT TVs didn't support multiple resolutions like way CRT computer monitors did, they only accepted video in one format. For TVs in North America and Japan that was in the format defined by NTSC standard. Lower resolution video simple weren't compatible. A so called 240p video signal is just an NTSC signal where either the interlaced frames are identical or one is blank.

It's possible that these older consoles, and it's only older consoles that cause problems, bent the rules in such away that make them incompatible with some modern equipment, but they weren't using entirely different video format or resolution.
Level99's Avatar Level99
11:10 AM Liked: 11
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07-14-2013 | Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ross Ridge View Post

Wikipedia is wrong. You can't "put fields on top of each other", and the referenced articles don't claim this.

CRT TVs didn't support multiple resolutions like way CRT computer monitors did, they only accepted video in one format. For TVs in North America and Japan that was in the format defined by NTSC standard. Lower resolution video simple weren't compatible. A so called 240p video signal is just an NTSC signal where either the interlaced frames are identical or one is blank.

It's possible that these older consoles, and it's only older consoles that cause problems, bent the rules in such away that make them incompatible with some modern equipment, but they weren't using entirely different video format or resolution.

Ok well whatever the way the so called 240p signal works, I'm not here to argue about it. I just want to know if anyone has had success hooking up one of these older consoles through one of these upscaling receivers either with composite or s-video and having it output through hdmi either at 480i/p or upconverted to 1080p. If no one has, I still want a new receiver anyway for Blu-ray ect. and would just get one without video processing to save some money. In this case I would just hookup the old consoles straight to the tv and deal with the subpar picture quality.
Level99's Avatar Level99
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Anyone?
Kilian.ca's Avatar Kilian.ca
08:14 PM Liked: 36
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This thread reports issues with 240p through a Denon:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?154278-Jittery-picture-w-NES-amp-SNES-through-A-V-receiver

Although the model isn't mentioned it is enough to suggest that it is potentially an issue, but when it happens it's possible to use a line doubler to put out 480p as a workaround:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432555/convert-nes-from-240p-to-480i

Having said that the Denon 2312 uses Analog Device vp chip not one of the big names by any means so I doubt it's going to make that MUCH of an improvement. If you're going to drop this idea and get a lower model and cheaper AVR without vp then it also drops Audyssey MultEQ XT too (except the 1712). But then you never find out if it works or not.
Knucklehead90's Avatar Knucklehead90
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Most tv's still accept legacy video connections. Why not just plug the game console into the tv?
Level99's Avatar Level99
08:41 PM Liked: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilian.ca View Post

This thread reports issues with 240p through a Denon:
http://www.digitpress.com/forum/showthread.php?154278-Jittery-picture-w-NES-amp-SNES-through-A-V-receiver


Although the model isn't mentioned it is enough to suggest that it is potentially an issue, but when it happens it's possible to use a line doubler to put out 480p as a workaround:
http://www.avsforum.com/t/1432555/convert-nes-from-240p-to-480i

Having said that the Denon 2312 uses Analog Device vp chip not one of the big names by any means so I doubt it's going to make that MUCH of an improvement. If you're going to drop this idea and get a lower model and cheaper AVR without vp then it also drops Audyssey MultEQ XT too (except the 1712). But then you never find out if it works or not.

Thanks for the links and good points! I might just go for the 1712 and figure out some other way to get these systems to look better on my tv. Maybe some mods or an external scaler or something. Although you are right about not finding out if an AVR with vp works or not if I don't get one. Hmm what to do...
Level99's Avatar Level99
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07-14-2013 | Posts: 96
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Knucklehead90 View Post

Most tv's still accept legacy video connections. Why not just plug the game console into the tv?

I have had them plugged straight into the tv and it works fine. It just that the picture looks crappy. I was hoping video scaling or upconversion would improve the picture.
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