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post #1 of 18 Old 07-14-2013, 07:46 PM - Thread Starter
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Thankfully the company I ordered my Onkyo receiver through has great customer service. Almost a year to the day my 2nd Onkyo 616 goes out. First time around the whole thing stopped working. This time the sound comes through but no picture.

I told them that I'm not wanting another one and they're willing to refund my money towards another product that they carry. What should I look for that will last? I've been looking into Marantz a little but have been getting mixed feed back. I haven't owned Yamaha or Denon. It will be for a room that has TV/Movies only, rarely will music be played in there.

QUESTION: How often do you use your receiver to watch tv? Do you just use the pass-thru? or full on surround sound all the time. I'm wondering if I'm using mine too much or if I just have got bad ones (I know the 616 have a bad track record, just don't know if I'm using mine too much).


Thank you for any help. I'm going to be getting a return box Tuesday (16th). Budget wise, it depends on the quality and how long I can plan on keeping it.


***I'll be upgrading my speakers this Fall. Leaning towards NHT.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #2 of 18 Old 07-15-2013, 07:23 AM
 
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Well Randall, after two failed Onkyos, I can understand why you want to turn to other brands. smile.gif

My recommendation is to shoot for the AVR with the best version of Audyssey MultEQ you can afford. Each step up in MultEQ offers potential for a tangible improvements in audio quality, with MultEQ XT32 being top of the range. This chart shows the differences:



This excludes Yamaha and leaves you with the Marantz and Denon siblings (same parent company). Marantz tend to trade on their slick looks and "music first" (read: audiophile) reputation and roughly speaking for what you'll pay for a certain Marantz AVR, you'll get the next model up the line in a Denon AVR. IMO, there's superior value in the Denon range.

The xx13 Denons are being superseded by the new E and X series, so your company should be discounting the xx13 range. Do you feel comfortable telling us the name of the company?

In answer to your question, our AVR is used for 100% of our TV and PVR viewing and has been for the last two years. We process the PCM stereo or Dolby Digital (2.0) broadcast signal up to 5.1(2) channel using DTS Neo:6 Cinema or THX Cinema.
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post #3 of 18 Old 07-15-2013, 11:07 AM - Thread Starter
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Thank you for the reply.

I wasn't sure if I could say who I bought it from because they aren't a sponsor. So if this isn't suppose to be shown mods can delete it. I bought it through Amazon, I know they aren't "high end" but I am a prime member and like to take advantage of free shipping and getting it in 1-2 days.

That's what I do, we watch tv with it going through the receiver along with movies. Not sure why they keep going out after a year. I'd like to keep something for 3(?) years or so. I think in the year I've owned this one we listened to music one time. So would that mean Marantz wouldn't be a good option for me?

The speakers I'm looking at are the reason I've been looking into Marantz. Their tech/sales said that their speakers go great together.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #4 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 07:32 PM - Thread Starter
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No other input? I still haven't made up my mind yet.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #5 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 07:37 PM
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May want to look into the Denon XSeries. X3000 or even 4000. Give a call to Craig Peer on this site.
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post #6 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 08:32 PM - Thread Starter
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Thanks, how reliable is Denon? I use my receiver for everything so right now I'm not happy having to un-hook everything to switch blu ray, DirecTV, PS3 etc.. So I'm hoping to get something ASAP.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

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*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #7 of 18 Old 07-16-2013, 10:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Thanks, how reliable is Denon? I use my receiver for everything so right now I'm not happy having to un-hook everything to switch blu ray, DirecTV, PS3 etc.. So I'm hoping to get something ASAP.

denon is as reliable as marantz....afterall they are the same company.

I don't need snobs to tell me how to think, thank you!

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post #8 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 12:01 PM - Thread Starter
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So Denon is like VW while Marantz is an Audi? Basically the same but just with nicer options, more luxury?

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #9 of 18 Old 07-17-2013, 08:17 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Thank you for the reply.

I wasn't sure if I could say who I bought it from because they aren't a sponsor. So if this isn't suppose to be shown mods can delete it. I bought it through Amazon, I know they aren't "high end" but I am a prime member and like to take advantage of free shipping and getting it in 1-2 days.
Generally, I don't think there's a problem mentioning vendor names on AVS. If you're happy with the company and the price is competitive, there's no need to go high end. smile.gif

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

That's what I do, we watch tv with it going through the receiver along with movies. Not sure why they keep going out after a year. I'd like to keep something for 3(?) years or so. I think in the year I've owned this one we listened to music one time. So would that mean Marantz wouldn't be a good option for me?
I don't think Marantz is a good option for you because you can get better value elsewhere. See below about music reputation.

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

The speakers I'm looking at are the reason I've been looking into Marantz. Their tech/sales said that their speakers go great together.
Tech/sales is blowing smoke up your you-know-what. Ask him to explain exactly what specification metrics of the Marantz make his speakers perform better with it compared to other AVR's, and watch him squirm. There is no magic "synergy" between particular AVR's and speakers... it's all just simple science. Buy the AVR with enough power to cleanly drive your speakers to your preferred maximum volume level in your room and you're good to go.

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

So Denon is like VW while Marantz is an Audi? Basically the same but just with nicer options, more luxury?
Pretty much. Except as I said previously, Marantz trade on a music first reputation and nice looks and you pay more for that than the equivalent Denon. In reality, there's no discernible difference in sound quality on music or other material between Marantz and other AVR's when run without DSP (in direct mode). What will make a tangible difference in AVR's is getting as high up the Audyssey MultEQ tree as you can reasonably afford.

If you're shopping with Amazon, the Denon AVR-3313CI looks cherry ripe: http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-3313CI-Networking-Receiver-Capacity/dp/B00829USKS/ref=pd_sim_e_5

For comparison, here's the equivalent Marantz: http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR7007-Home-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0081N91BM/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1374115037&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=marantz+sr7007

If the 3313 is a bit much, the Denon AVR-2313CI has the same level of Audyssey but sacrifices a little power (<1dB stereo into 8Ω): http://www.amazon.com/Denon-AVR-2313CI-Networking-Theater-Receiver/dp/B00829USMQ/ref=sr_1_cc_1?s=aps&ie=UTF8&qid=1374115528&sr=1-1-catcorr&keywords=denon+avr-2313ci

Oh what the heck! The closest Marantz: http://www.amazon.com/Marantz-SR5007-Home-Theater-Receiver/dp/B0081N9180/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1374117187&sr=1-1&keywords=marantz+sr5007
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post #10 of 18 Old 07-18-2013, 12:29 AM - Thread Starter
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I was just going to post those, you beat me to it. I was actually looking at the 3313CI. I was comparing it to the x3000(?) I think is the newer model. All I really need is HDMI, plenty of power and the option to add amps in the future if I feel the need. I've seen reviews and read on other posts about how much power the Denon 3313CI puts out, is it 7 channels driven? or just 2?

Once the tech/sales guy told me to go with a certain brand it did made me think about why? So I looked into it more and basically all I can see is because they ONLY sell Marantz on their website as far as electronics go. It is making me question going with them as my new speakers. The speakers I'm looking at are 6 ohm.



****Just got an email from Amazon about my "problem" now they want me to keep the receiver and only get a percentage back. Luckily I saved the 1st email from them saying I'll get a full refund if I return the Onkyo. I figured I'd give it one more shot of trying to get it to work. Well now no sound comes out either. Basically a paper weight now, just like the first one.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #11 of 18 Old 07-18-2013, 12:32 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the reply GIEGAR. In my opinion I'd rather spend a little more (couple hundred at most) to get all the stuff I'm looking for. I really want a reliable receiver that can last a couple years. The wife is even frustrated, we can't watch movies until a new one arrives and even watching TV sucks. You don't realize how much a HT improves the experience.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #12 of 18 Old 07-18-2013, 07:23 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

I was just going to post those, you beat me to it. I was actually looking at the 3313CI. I was comparing it to the x3000(?) I think is the newer model. All I really need is HDMI, plenty of power and the option to add amps in the future if I feel the need. I've seen reviews and read on other posts about how much power the Denon 3313CI puts out, is it 7 channels driven? or just 2?
The X3000 is the replacement for the 2313CI. The X4000 is the replacement for the 3313CI. The X3000/2313CI do not have main speaker pre-outs for hooking up external amps, so you'll need to step to the X4000/3313CI for 7.2 channel pre-outs.

Like most AVR's, the 3313CI's power rating is with 2 channels driven. I personally don't see this as an issue because all 7 channels being driven at full power simultaneously is a scenario that's never demanded of the amps by real program material.

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Once the tech/sales guy told me to go with a certain brand it did made me think about why? So I looked into it more and basically all I can see is because they ONLY sell Marantz on their website as far as electronics go. It is making me question going with them as my new speakers. The speakers I'm looking at are 6 ohm.
That would explain it Randall. The notion of beautiful amp/speaker "marriages" is a common misconception, so I wouldn't be too tough on them, especially if they're offering a good deal. Out of interest, what speakers are you considering?

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Thanks for the reply GIEGAR. In my opinion I'd rather spend a little more (couple hundred at most) to get all the stuff I'm looking for. I really want a reliable receiver that can last a couple years. The wife is even frustrated, we can't watch movies until a new one arrives and even watching TV sucks. You don't realize how much a HT improves the experience.
No problem. I can relate to your frustration. Our Onkyo's HDMI board is on its last legs and it intermittently loses all audio output. I dislike those days. Fortunately it's still under warranty... it just needs to be utterly FUBAR before we take it in for repairs, so they can replicate the fault.
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post #13 of 18 Old 07-18-2013, 11:59 AM - Thread Starter
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The speakers I'm looking at are NHT. I am going to be redoing my living room/HT room and the speakers will need to be placed close to walls. With them being a sealed box, I was told (forums, reviews, etc..) that these would work great for my room. I'm still looking though and if I stumble across something better for the $$$$ then I'll have to do a lot more research.

As far as a deal goes, they haven't offered me any sort of special. I just remember that they had a few good sales last year and they seem to be doing the same ones this year.

Which Onkyo do you have? What are you looking to get next?


**** Amazon refunded my money and I just sent money for the 3313CI. It has a 3 year warranty, I'm glad the warranty is longer but hoping that I won't have to use it.

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #14 of 18 Old 07-18-2013, 12:22 PM
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Could the failures be due to insufficient ventilation? I know Onkyos are notorious for getting hot. If you are stuffing your receivers into a cabinet you maybe risking another short lived receiver. Just a thought. These newer receivers are getting more and more electronics packed into them which means more heat is being produced. Many cabinets are just not well suited for high end electronics. They were designed for looks and performance is just an afterthought if any thought was even put in in the first place.

I know I'm a bit late to this game, but I was going to recommend the discontinued Denon 4311. After checking Amazon though. I can't recommend it. They are still asking near full retail on those things. I got mine for far less than their current prices back in January.
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post #15 of 18 Old 07-19-2013, 10:31 AM - Thread Starter
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When I bought my first Onkyo HT receiver 4 years ago I picked up some USB powered fans to help keep it cool. My current receiver that went out has roughly 7-8" above it totally open. My whole entertainment center is a open design. I thought that the heat could cause the issue but I randomly touched it and it never was that much warmer than the room temp.

Denon receiver should be here today. Not sure if I'll notice the difference between the two right off the bat?

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
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post #16 of 18 Old 07-20-2013, 02:22 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

The speakers I'm looking at are NHT. I am going to be redoing my living room/HT room and the speakers will need to be placed close to walls. With them being a sealed box, I was told (forums, reviews, etc..) that these would work great for my room. I'm still looking though and if I stumble across something better for the $$$$ then I'll have to do a lot more research.
Yes, sealed speakers are much more forgiving in constrained placement situations. With the NHT's, you might be interested in this review: http://www.stereophile.com/content/nht-classic-absolute-tower-loudspeaker. (I skip the flowery prose and go straight to the specs and measurements.) I'm partial to sealed LCR's actually, but they're few and far between. Emotiva had sealed towers and a centre that, on paper, looked very impressive, but unfortunately they're now discontinued. There are a few others around though. They will all tend to roll off comparatively high for a tower speaker, so a good quality sub (or two) in important.

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As far as a deal goes, they haven't offered me any sort of special. I just remember that they had a few good sales last year and they seem to be doing the same ones this year.
I see NHT have a sale on at the moment.

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Originally Posted by Randall.White View Post

Which Onkyo do you have? What are you looking to get next?
I have a TX-NR1007. It's THX Ultra2+ certified and it's just a beast of a thing. The HDMI board issue is a pain, but other than that I love it. The HDMI issue is now well known and reportedly the fix works well, so I'm not actively looking for a new AVR. I still like Onkyo though, and would look seriously at a TX-NR3010. One of my aspirations is to go to active speakers all 'round, in which case I'd probably go for the PR-SC5509 pre-pro.

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**** Amazon refunded my money and I just sent money for the 3313CI. It has a 3 year warranty, I'm glad the warranty is longer but hoping that I won't have to use it.
The 3313CI is an excellent choice. Well done!

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Denon receiver should be here today. Not sure if I'll notice the difference between the two right off the bat?
I predict you will, with Audyssey MultEQ XT making the difference. The Denon will also sound clean and clear on peaks during high volume listening, where previously the Onkyo may have been sounding strained as distortion rose.
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post #17 of 18 Old 07-20-2013, 01:42 PM - Thread Starter
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Watched a couple movies last night to break it in. Going to watch another one tonight. I've noticed already that the speakers sound clearer, more detail? I would of liked to stay with Onkyo just because I know the general layout of them but really haven't had a good experience with them.

Hoping to pick up another LFM-1EX sub soon too, along with speakers. This is a never ending hobby. Once I'm happy with how it sounds I'm probably going to block this site lol.

I remember last year that a few companies had pretty sweet Black Friday sales. Hoping they do that again this year.

Personally I've never owned sealed HT speakers. Why do you like them better?

Living Room
*NHT ThreeC *NHT Classic Three's (4) *Denon 3313ci *Outlaw Audio LFM-1EX (2)

Game Room
*NHT Absolute Tower (2) *Denon E300
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post #18 of 18 Old 07-21-2013, 05:39 AM
 
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I've never owned sealed speakers either, so I can't unreservedly say I like them better. I guess you could say I'd look at sealed speakers favourably due to their placement flexibility and because usually the designs don't trade efficiency for unnecessary low end extension (everyone runs subs for HT use).

These are the sealed speakers I desire the most... too expensive for me at present though!


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