YPAO says polarity reversed? - AVS Forum

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Receivers, Amps, and Processors

mnc's Avatar mnc
03:48 PM Liked: 96
post #1 of 15
07-21-2013 | Posts: 1,855
Joined: Mar 2003
I have a Yamaha RX-V861 that I've owned for years and I have run YPAO many times and everything went fine. I just switched my Parasound amp from powering the built-in subs of my NHT VT-2 towers to powering them full-range. When I run YPAO, it tells me my Front Left and Right speakers are Reverse Phase. I have re-checked the wiring many times and re-run the YPAO many times and always the same result. Could something about the Parasound amp be reversing the polarity? I reversed the wires to my towers and re-ran YPAO and no more message about reverse wiring. How do I know which way is right? What would it sound like if wired out of phase? Any help is much appreciated.
Jon S's Avatar Jon S
10:36 AM Liked: 79
post #2 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 2,886
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Don't worry about it... My Pioneer did the same thing... Sometimes, the acoustics throws off the calibration...
oztech's Avatar oztech
11:24 AM Liked: 94
post #3 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 7,662
Joined: May 2005
Try using a tripod to mount the mic or move the mic just off to the side in either direction as Jon S pointed out the room acoustics or sometimes what you have the mic setting on can cause this.
Most of your test disc such as DVE will have test material telling you if a channel is truly out of phase which by the way has happened during assembly on some speakers (raw drivers) that have the same size spade lug for +/_.
M Code's Avatar M Code
12:26 PM Liked: 153
post #4 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 10,029
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Known issue with YPAO...
Double check your wire but likely no problem found...
Just my $0.02. wink.gif
KidHorn's Avatar KidHorn
01:03 PM Liked: 262
post #5 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 3,006
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I've had YPAO and audyssey do this to me. I checked it out and learned to ignore it.
mnc's Avatar mnc
06:02 PM Liked: 96
post #6 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 1,855
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If it's an issue with the YPAO, why does it only happen when using my Parasound amp for the mains? Anyway, when I switched the connectors and ran YPAO again, it says wiring is fine. Only thing I can tell sound-wise is that now I can hear the surrounds better. Strange!
M Code's Avatar M Code
06:19 PM Liked: 153
post #7 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 10,029
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Because within your room you have reflections which can alter the energy output phasing picked up by the microphone..

More advanced EQ systems such as the Harman/JBL such as EzSet/EQ II measure Near & Far Field output acoustic patterns...
Whereas YPAO only mesures Far Field...

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
mnc's Avatar mnc
06:31 PM Liked: 96
post #8 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 1,855
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So...the sound reflects differently in my room when using an outboard amp instead of the Yamaha?tongue.gif
M Code's Avatar M Code
08:48 PM Liked: 153
post #9 of 15
07-23-2013 | Posts: 10,029
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Issue is inherent in the YPAO software,changing amplifiers changes the room's acoustic footprint by level...
Also each amplifier may vary for phasing...

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
mnc's Avatar mnc
05:28 AM Liked: 96
post #10 of 15
07-24-2013 | Posts: 1,855
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Ok so bottom line, should I go with what the YPAO tells me or just keep everything wired "correctly"? Is it better to be "acoustically" in phase or electrically in phase?
M Code's Avatar M Code
09:02 AM Liked: 153
post #11 of 15
07-24-2013 | Posts: 10,029
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnc View Post

Ok so bottom line, should I go with what the YPAO tells me or just keep everything wired "correctly"? Is it better to be "acoustically" in phase or electrically in phase?

Electrically...

Assuming your factory loudspeaker and channel are wired properly..

Just my $0.02... wink.gif
mnc's Avatar mnc
09:25 AM Liked: 96
post #12 of 15
07-24-2013 | Posts: 1,855
Joined: Mar 2003
Well, after all this I decided to go back to bi-amping my mains. No matter what I did, it just didn't sound right when powering them full-range. When playing movies very loud, it was great. However, playing music there never was enough bass. Just didn't sound right. Now I'm back to bi-amping which has made a MASSIVE difference in bass output, especially at low to medium volume. This may not be as high quality as feeding my mains from just my Parasound but I just couldn't live with the lack of bass.

Now I'm off to find out which receiver to upgrade to.biggrin.gif
phannon's Avatar phannon
11:13 AM Liked: 11
post #13 of 15
07-24-2013 | Posts: 147
Joined: Feb 2007
On a similar note, I have an 861 that I use as a per/pro for movies and multi channel music (SACD, DVD-A and Blu-ray). I use outboard amps for L/R (Rotel RB-1572), Shure HTS-50SPA (bridged) for the centre and an amp for the surround speakers.....anyway, I originally had a Rotel RB-1080 amp for the L/R (Mirage OM-6) and after a while found that the surround sounded better with the phase to the surround channels (Ar-9) reversed. A couple years ago, I replaced the 1080 with the 1572 and one day just decided to try the surround speakers now in phase with the fronts and sure enough it now sounded better. I checked the phase with some test disc signals, as I did on the previous trials, but it is sort of hard to hear the differences over wide distances without moving the speakers closer, but it was now better....and I did not think much of it. More recently, I have been listening to more multi channel music including some three channel discs (Nat King Cole). The music sounded great....but there was "something" that wasn't quite right....could not really put my finger on it, but stereo discs had a bit more of a position in the room for voices whereas the 5.1 centre (from the dedicated speaker) was not quite as good!

I checked all the connections, all was good. I tried the "phasing" tests from discs but did not really learn anything. Just on a shot in the dark, I played a mono source through the L and centre speakers ( by reconnecting the patch cords from L/R to L/C) and with my head between the speakers at a crazy angle........the mono sound was diffuse, not centered! I reversed the phase on the centre speaker and low and behold, sharp centered sound between L/C and R/C for the mono signal. All the connections were correct previously, so somewhere along the electrical path, there is a component that reverses the phase relative the the other components.

The sound is now fantastic and sharp for music, with much more presence that sounds "right" vs the great but not quite there from before. Another component change during this time was from a Luxman stereo pre amp to a Rotel RC1580 pre amp that the L/R channels go through on the way to the power amp (stereo music goes through this more "pure" path only), so I do not know exactly when this "change" occurred. The movie sound is now better as well, but the nature of movie sound makes the reversed phase less noticeable than for carefully listened to music.

I do not know if this is helpful, but maybe something is reversing phase.....maybe try the mono listening trial and see what that gives. It can happen!

Cheers,
P.E.H.
mnc's Avatar mnc
12:22 PM Liked: 96
post #14 of 15
07-24-2013 | Posts: 1,855
Joined: Mar 2003
Thanks for all the help. Right now I am torn between better bass when bi-amping vs clearer, more dynamic sound when using my amp full range. I'm thinking I need to get a multi channel amp to get the best of both worlds!
mnc's Avatar mnc
07:35 AM Liked: 96
post #15 of 15
07-27-2013 | Posts: 1,855
Joined: Mar 2003
I've decided that my room must have a pretty big bass null in the listening position. When bi-amping, using the sub out, the YPAO sets the sub too high. I believe it is trying to overcompensate the null and as a result it is overworking them.
I ended up leaving my speakers powered full-range from my amp and increasing the bass tone control. So far this has given me the best sound. Also I am leaving EQ OFF. I am also leaving my speakers wired correctly, not changing the polarity as YPAO suggested.
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