Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread - Page 4 - AVS Forum
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post #91 of 1012 Old 08-23-2013, 12:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BIslander View Post

THX receivers attenuate DTS tracks by 4dB. But, I believe they only do whatever the metadata tells them to do with DD 5.1, TrueHD, and dts-MA. DTS is different because there is no dialnorm data and THX decided to apply the Dolby default to those tracks.

While I laud your effort to determine what is going on with dialnorm and your Pioneer processor, remember this is only about small adjustments in overall volume. Most of us do those sorts of adjustments at the start of movie playback anyway because of varying volume levels from movie to movie.

Ah. I didn't catch that before. So standard DTS doesn't include dialnorm data, but the DTS-HD formats do (presumably as part of the -HD extension). All my previous comments about DTS were referring to DTS-HD Master.

I understand about this being only small adjustments (normally 4dB or less). One of the things I considered when evaluating whether I wanted a THX certified receiver or not, is that the THX volume indications are supposed to be relative to the actual reference level. In other words, if I set the volume to 0 dB, I should be hearing everything at the volume intended for a movie theater, and presumably the level heard in the dubbing theater. Dialog normalization seems to completely negate that aspect of THX, at least to the point where 0 dB on the volume control is now reference level, +/- something. It's still in the ballpark, probably no more than 8dB off, maybe even within 4dB. Displaying the DIAL NORM number offset (if Pioneer actually explained that in the Operator's Manual) should give enough information to re-establish reference level, but with all the variations in dialnorm implementation, determining the true reference volume level becomes somewhere between extremely complex to totally impossible. Granted, I almost never play anything at the 0dB level in my home theater. I usually run a maximum of -5dB. Of course that might actually be 9dB below reference, or perhaps 1dB below reference, or something in between. How do I know? In other words, dialog normalization has turned the THX volume indications into meaningless numbers as far as a reference level is concerned, unless you can figure out exactly what dialog normalization is doing.

My investigation into this actually started because I could hear the 4 dB difference in volume when I switched my Blu-ray player between bitstream and LPCM output while trying to check the A/V Synchronization to determine a proper audio delay setting the for BD input on the SC-77. Had I not noticed the volume difference, I probably would have just accepted that the dialog normalization was working as it should and never given it a second thought.
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post #92 of 1012 Old 08-24-2013, 10:55 AM
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I received my SC-77 yesterday. I ran the auto MCACC. Pretty happy with the settings. Sub level was lowered a little more than expected, but I will listen to it for a while before making changes.

One thing I'm finding challenging is trying to figure out how "optimum" audio processing is determined. It seems to down-sample DD True HD. If I change it to "Direct" it keeps the sample rate. Any advice for how to set up?

Also, I have a Pioneer Elite Blu Ray. Should I set the audio out to PCM or Bitstream for the best audio through the SC-77?

One last question (for now), does anyone have a recommendation for a DLNA-compliant media server that runs on Mac OS X ? I want to build a movie library of ripped DVDs and Blu Rays. Also would like it to support high def audio (FLAC, AIFF, DSD, etc.).

And, I LOVE the status screen on the iOS iControlAV app!! It shows info for audio and video pre and post SC-77 processing. Great way to see how the SC-77 is processing the signals.
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post #93 of 1012 Old 08-25-2013, 12:32 PM
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Appreciate all those chiming in on the audio volume, especially to KC-Technerd, ss9001, and BIslander. Solid informational reading. After a couple more days with it, I've come across a couple more things that I'm having difficulties trying to achieve.

A) radio tuner on screen display - is there anyway to get my hdtv to display anything whatsoever when one uses the radio tuner?
B) standby hdmi passthrough - is there anyway to get audio to passthrough? I can easily get video to passthrough to the hdtv when the receiver is on standby, but I'm having difficulties with sound on my htpc, and ps3.

Edit: still can't get the ps3 to output sound, but did manage to get the htpc to do what i want. I went into the menu hdmi setup screen (accessible only with pioneers remote but not with iControlAV). Under "hdmi standby through," there are the following available: BD, hdmi 12345678, and that's it.

Edit 2: success. managed to get the audio working for the ps3. Don't remember exactly if I had the receiver turned on or put in standby mode, but the important part is to go into the ps3 audio and video settings. Everything was done using the automatic option, and not using the cstom option. My htpc connected works great as well.

Edit 3: still looking for help regrding the radio tuner and having some sort of on screen display
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post #94 of 1012 Old 08-25-2013, 09:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryyogurt View Post

Edit 3: still looking for help regrding the radio tuner and having some sort of on screen display

Sorry, it looks like when the radio tuner is selected that the HDMI output is completely shut down. I'm not finding anyway to turn it back on.
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post #95 of 1012 Old 08-25-2013, 10:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CharleyC View Post

I received my SC-77 yesterday. I ran the auto MCACC. Pretty happy with the settings. Sub level was lowered a little more than expected, but I will listen to it for a while before making changes.

One thing I'm finding challenging is trying to figure out how "optimum" audio processing is determined. It seems to down-sample DD True HD. If I change it to "Direct" it keeps the sample rate. Any advice for how to set up?

Also, I have a Pioneer Elite Blu Ray. Should I set the audio out to PCM or Bitstream for the best audio through the SC-77?

One last question (for now), does anyone have a recommendation for a DLNA-compliant media server that runs on Mac OS X ? I want to build a movie library of ripped DVDs and Blu Rays. Also would like it to support high def audio (FLAC, AIFF, DSD, etc.).

And, I LOVE the status screen on the iOS iControlAV app!! It shows info for audio and video pre and post SC-77 processing. Great way to see how the SC-77 is processing the signals.

Welcome to the thread. According the manual:
Quote:
OPTIMUM SURR – In the Optimum Surround mode, this receiver automatically optimizes sound balance in each scene based on actually set volume. The sound balancer controls three major theater sound elements dialogue, bass and surround with original algorithm.

So it adjusts the balance of dialog, bass and surround for the particular volume level that you have set. To me, this sounds like Pioneer's own version of THX Loudness Plus. So far I'm not seeing any evidence of down-sampling on DD True-HD. Where were you getting the indication of this, and what was it down-sampled from and to?

With any Blu-ray player, theoretically, there should be no difference in audio quality using PCM or Bitstream output. Bitstream output lets the SC-77 do the codec to PCM conversion, where PCM will cause the codec to PCM conversion to take place in the Blu-ray player. No difference other than where the conversion takes place. In reality it seems that occasionally that an AVR (including the SC-77) may have difficulties decoding a Dolby or DTS codec, so if you ever get dropouts or no audio, then try switching to PCM, and that will often restore the audio. It is also possible that there will be a slight volume difference between the two based on how dialog normalization is applied.

So far I'm playing my iTunes library out directly on Airplay to the SC-77. I temporarily set up a DLNA server on my Mac using YazSoft Playback in order to assist someone who had a question about FLAC playback on the SC-77. It seemed to work fine, but I only used it for FLAC audio files. I did find out that the SC-77 only supports 2.0 channel FLACs. 5.1 is not supported. He also suggested Twonky Server which I did not use.
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post #96 of 1012 Old 08-28-2013, 05:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post

› USB-DAC 192 kHz/32-bit with DSD Native Playback
› HDBaseTTM Compatible (HDMI Extension via LAN)
&
› 850 W Multi ch Simultaneous Drive (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %)
› 255 W/ch (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 200 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 140 W/ch (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)

vs for the SC-77:

› 810 W Multi ch Simultaneous Drive (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %)
› 240 W/ch (4 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 190 W/ch (6 ohms, 1 kHz, 1 %, 2 ch Driven)
› 140 W/ch (8 ohms, 1 kHz, 0.08 %, 2 ch Driven FTC)

According to this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479035/new-pioneer-sc-79-flagship-info-on-pioneer-website the amps are the same but rated differently. See post #28 by David Susilo. "I don't see any point in upgrading to SC-79 over SC-77 as the difference is only on the HD Base-T. The power rating may be rated differently but based on the service manual and component list, SC 77 and SC 79 are identical in the amp and power supply area. Hence my wanting to upgrade to 77 but not 79."
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post #97 of 1012 Old 08-28-2013, 08:32 AM
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Has anybody noticed Any SQ difference with the new Sabre 32 DAC's
Compared to last years models ????
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post #98 of 1012 Old 08-29-2013, 10:18 PM
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ES DISCRETE That's something I've never seen before.

I'm also really enjoying listening to Pandora. I've never heard it sound so good on anything else. I'm hearing a lot of details I've never noticed before in songs that I thought I knew.
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post #99 of 1012 Old 08-29-2013, 10:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by randyc1 View Post

Has anybody noticed Any SQ difference with the new Sabre 32 DAC's
Compared to last years models ????

I'm curious about that myself. I was really hoping there'd be at least a few reviews of these units available by now. Of course it may be difficult to judge how much of any SQ change would be attributable specifically to the DACs. I'm not sure what else might have been changed.
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post #100 of 1012 Old 08-30-2013, 06:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post

According to this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479035/new-pioneer-sc-79-flagship-info-on-pioneer-website the amps are the same but rated differently. See post #28 by David Susilo. "I don't see any point in upgrading to SC-79 over SC-77 as the difference is only on the HD Base-T. The power rating may be rated differently but based on the service manual and component list, SC 77 and SC 79 are identical in the amp and power supply area. Hence my wanting to upgrade to 77 but not 79."

Any ideas why the different ratings?
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post #101 of 1012 Old 08-30-2013, 06:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post

Any ideas why the different ratings?

1. marketing - providing differentiation between the 2 models (along with HDBaseT & USB-DAC)
2. 850 watt vs 810 watt power supply
3. both

#3 is the right answer because #2 directly relates to #1 wink.gif
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post #102 of 1012 Old 08-30-2013, 06:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post

The power rating may be rated differently but based on the service manual and component list, SC 77 and SC 79 are identical in the amp and power supply area.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ss9001 View Post

2. 850 watt vs 810 watt power supply

That doesn't sound "identical".
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post #103 of 1012 Old 08-30-2013, 07:33 PM
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The power is only identical at 2 channels driven at 8ohm at 6 and 4 the 79 has more not much but more.
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post #104 of 1012 Old 08-30-2013, 10:23 PM
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Hi all,

Apologies if this has already been covered, but here goes, anyhow.

I'm really enjoying my SC-75, but I'd like to be able to send audio out via HDMI to a second TV in the kitchen for occasional casual viewing. (For example, when the gang is over to watch a football game, the diehard fans are in the den with the surround sound cranked, but there's a spillover crowd milling about in the kitchen while getting snacks. That sort of thing.)

I have picture out to the second TV, but there's no sound being sent out from the SC-75 when the unit is on. (The sound reappears when the SC-75 is shut off.) Is there any way to make this happen?

Thanks,

Ed
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post #105 of 1012 Old 08-31-2013, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post

According to this thread http://www.avsforum.com/t/1479035/new-pioneer-sc-79-flagship-info-on-pioneer-website the amps are the same but rated differently. See post #28 by David Susilo. "I don't see any point in upgrading to SC-79 over SC-77 as the difference is only on the HD Base-T. The power rating may be rated differently but based on the service manual and component list, SC 77 and SC 79 are identical in the amp and power supply area. Hence my wanting to upgrade to 77 but not 79."
Quote:
Originally Posted by KC-Technerd View Post


That doesn't sound "identical".

You miss the point; the components are the same yet rated differently , sounds like marketing to me. I doubt that the same components in those areas would account for a different output regardless of load.
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post #106 of 1012 Old 08-31-2013, 09:30 PM
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Maybe Walkamo could chime in and shed some light on the power differences.
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post #107 of 1012 Old 09-01-2013, 09:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rickcfer View Post


You miss the point; the components are the same yet rated differently , sounds like marketing to me. I doubt that the same components in those areas would account for a different output regardless of load.

You missed my point.
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post #108 of 1012 Old 09-01-2013, 04:03 PM
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I'm a new owner of an SC-75 and a new member on this forum.

Long way around for me to obtain the receiver (full story below if interested) and have had it for about 1 week. I am using a 5.1 speaker set up with Cambridge Soundworks Ensamble II and BassCube 12. These speakers are over 10 years old and I have no issues with them, but I am considering replacing down the road a ways. I have not spent as much time as I'd like with the receiver, still many settings at default values. I have ran the MCACC calibration and am pleased with the results.

Back in early May I "purchased" a SC-65 at what I believed to be a wonderful price, $1070. It was a special order product for the retailer with an expected arrival date of mid-June. That date came and went so I contacted the retailer, was informed the SC-65 was discontinued and they could not fulfill the order. However, they did offer to provide a SC-75 at the same price. I said yes. Several missed expected arrival dates for the 75 later I finally got it about a week ago. Long wait, but the sound I am now experiencing was worth the wait.

My first Pioneer was a SX-450 back in the mid-late 70's, then a SX-850, then a VSX-D466S. All but the 450 are still in operation. 30 years on the 850 is still putting out good sound!

Looking forward to gaining knowledge here and hope to provide useful input.

Kind regards,
dbrown
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post #109 of 1012 Old 09-02-2013, 10:31 PM
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Hello Everyone.

I am new member on the forum and I just purchased the SC-79.

The specific reason I went with the SC-79 over the SC-77 is I actually wanted the USB DAC to use so I could play DSD audio files from my computer and have the amplifier decode them properly.

I am somewhat upset that the SC-79 USB-DAC does not support multichannel DSD playback yet. I hope Pioneer will release a firmware update in the future that will enable multichannel DSD playback capability. What is funny is that all of Onkyo's new A/V receivers (which are a LOT cheaper) will be receiving a firmware update for all 2013 models that will enable multichannel DSD playback (per email direct from Onkyo support). I almost bought an Onkyo for that reason alone until I saw the audio specs were not near as good as the Pioneer specs and the reviews of the Onkyo in 2 channel mode were not very good. Also the Pioneer supports 2 versions (sampling rates) of 2 channel DSD. Onkyo only supports one sampling rate of DSD.

The other option I was considering over getting the pioneer was getting a OPPO-105 bluray disc player which can decode multichannel DSD files and then buy an a/v receiver with multichannel analog input connections that I can feed to the OPPO. I found that the cost of buying the OPPO just to use as a DAC then having to buy an A/V receiver with analog multichannel input at the same specs of the pioneer, I rather just go ahead and buy the SC-79 and call it done.

My SC-79 was just ordered and should be in my possession next week. It will be used only in 7.1 mode since I do not plan on buying more speakers. I haggled a really good price for a brand new SC-79 (no where near the outrageous MSRP!). I hope the SABRE USB DAC inside the SC-79 lives up to the promise because otherwise I would of just got an SC-77.
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post #110 of 1012 Old 09-07-2013, 06:06 AM
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Anybody setup a URC 980 with the SC-79 yet? Just picked up a SC-79 and was just updated the URC SW and SC-79 is not listed. I will try the SC-68 but was wondering if anyone has heard if they are planning to add SC-79.
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post #111 of 1012 Old 09-07-2013, 07:05 AM
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definitely try the SC-68 codes. I have the MX5000 but not the SC-79, but there's a good chance the codes for the 68 are going to work for you. many of the codes for the SC-68 also work on my SC-09 so Pioneer re-uses codes on some players & receivers.

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post #112 of 1012 Old 09-07-2013, 02:04 PM
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I have an SC-79 and I am hoping it will work with my Logitech harmony one remote. Logitech is usually pretty good at keeping their code database up to date so I expect i will find it. Otherwise I will try it with an older Pioneer receiver's code.
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post #113 of 1012 Old 09-08-2013, 03:54 PM
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SC-68 codes did not work for the SC-79. So I guess I will have to use the iPhone app for now. Hopefully URC will have an update soon. I will try some of the other codes to see if I can get one to work.
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post #114 of 1012 Old 09-08-2013, 04:13 PM
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^ just scroll thru the other Pioneer codes, find one that turns it on, and you'll be set. I've had to do this on occasion for some particular piece of gear when URC hasn't updated the database yet. I think you'll find one of those Pio codes works.

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post #115 of 1012 Old 09-10-2013, 11:08 PM
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I may have missed this I didn't read through every page....

I am trying to decide between the SC-75 and 77, does anyone have any input on this? This is what I have found so far:

The difference between the SC75 and 77

Air Studio certification ( What does it do and will I notice any difference without it? )

The different types of THX ( I believe one is for larger spaces? ( I am in a 1 bedroom apartment but power hungry what can I say )

By the way with the D3 amplifiers will I notice in difference over the older AB amplifiers?

What I have now:
Pioneer Elite VSX-23TXH
Pioneer Elite BlueRay
B&W CDM7 SE fronts
Martin Logan 5.1 surrounds ( Lower models )

In the process of upgrading the surrounds to B&Ws most likely.

Thanks for any advice.
Will
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post #116 of 1012 Old 09-11-2013, 10:03 AM
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A 77 vs 75 feature set comparison is here:
http://www.storemob.com/vs/pioneer-sc-77-vs-pioneer-sc-75/

Also, on the Pioneer web site, if you read the Product Sheet for each model you will see items in bold. Those are items not found on the next lower model in the line up.

I can not hear any artifacts from the class D amp, seems some folks are able to however.
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post #117 of 1012 Old 09-11-2013, 05:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dbrown3611 View Post

A 77 vs 75 feature set comparison is here:
http://www.storemob.com/vs/pioneer-sc-77-vs-pioneer-sc-75/

Also, on the Pioneer web site, if you read the Product Sheet for each model you will see items in bold. Those are items not found on the next lower model in the line up.

I can not hear any artifacts from the class D amp, seems some folks are able to however.

Thanks dbrown3611, the storemob one was a little more helpful I have read the pioneer one.


Still doesn't tell me about the AIr Studio certification and if I would miss it.

About the two THX certifications

And difference between USB DSD Playback 2.8Mhz (versus 5.6Mhz)
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post #118 of 1012 Old 09-11-2013, 06:53 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flrun View Post

Still doesn't tell me about the AIr Studio certification and if I would miss it.

did you try reading the information on what Air Studios is, what their cert means on Pioneer's web site? or googling it?

Air Studios is where George Martin mastered all the Beatles albums for starters. and Pioneer uses them for all their final MCACC & amp design tuning. as to whether you'd "miss it", only you would know that rolleyes.gif

why would you expect US to answer this for you...I figured out what Air Studio meant all on my own 10 yrs ago with my 1st flagship Elite AVR.

do some homework

and the differences between the THX certifications is well documented & explained on THX's site for many years.

do some homework of your own, before asking folks to regurgitate what THX has written about Ultra2 vs Select2:

http://www.thx.com/files/2012/08/THX-AVR-Certification.pdf

DSD sampling rates...very very few probably have had the opportunity to listen to files at 5.8 MHZ since up until very recently

1. standalone remotely affordable DAC's and processors with native DSD file support weren't available
2. downloadable DSD files at 5.8 MHZ hasn't been available until VERY recently
3. and even SACD's are 2.8 MHZ
4. NO receiver existed before now that can directly decode 5.8 MHZ DSD. only hi-priced, hi-end DACS's (see #1).

so you probably won't see too many to be able to answer that question from hands-on experience. the higher sampling rate is greater resolution so should theoretically be better but whether it's audible to you or not depends on your hearing, your speakers, your room acoustics, and the mastering of the recording itself.

sampling rates described -
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_Stream_Digital

Steve
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post #119 of 1012 Old 09-14-2013, 10:26 AM
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Any owners out there of the 79 who've tried the HDBaseT connection? I'm interested in how it worked out, stability, ease of getting gear to handshake, etc.
Thanks!

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post #120 of 1012 Old 09-19-2013, 06:10 PM
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I have the SC-79 and have not used the HD-baseT connection yet but I do plan to eventually to wire one additional TV in another room in my house via Ethernet cable using this.
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