Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread - Page 7 - AVS Forum
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Receivers, Amps, and Processors > Official Pioneer SC-75/77/79 Thread
HDTVAV's Avatar HDTVAV 07:48 PM 11-24-2013

So, the only difference is really that the 79 is better for:

 

The use of a computer with the AVR

The use of long run cables...?

 

That is worth $1,000 more?:)



David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 08:50 PM 11-24-2013
Not at all for better USB DAC just get Audioquest Dragonfly and for 10 BaseT connection you can get them anywhere for only $100 each
HDTVAV's Avatar HDTVAV 09:05 PM 11-24-2013

So...

 

Would the SC-68 or the SC-77 be the "better" of the two?


David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 09:40 PM 11-24-2013
I'd go with the 77 if you need phono and analog multi-ch input, if not, just get the 75
KC-Technerd's Avatar KC-Technerd 10:12 PM 11-24-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

I'd go with the 77 if you need phono and analog multi-ch input, if not, just get the 75

The SC-77 does not have analog multi-ch input, neither does the SC-79. The SC-68 does.
ss9001's Avatar ss9001 03:56 AM 11-25-2013
^^
+1 again smile.gif multichannel analogs are dropped in 2013 models.
ss9001's Avatar ss9001 03:58 AM 11-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTVAV View Post

So, the only difference is really that the 79 is better for:

The use of a computer with the AVR
The use of long run cables...?

That is worth $1,000 more?smile.gif

to some, obviously not to you, so why do you keep posting about it? just get the 77 wink.gifsmile.gif
oztech's Avatar oztech 08:03 AM 11-25-2013
At the bottom of the Elite page on AVR's is a comparison chart choose the one that meets your needs/wants its that simple but as with any mfg sometimes you have to get a model with more than you want just to get the things needed.
ss9001's Avatar ss9001 11:01 AM 11-25-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by oztech View Post

At the bottom of the Elite page on AVR's is a comparison chart choose the one that meets your needs/wants its that simple but as with any mfg sometimes you have to get a model with more than you want just to get the things needed.

true words
ghostdog4's Avatar ghostdog4 08:10 PM 12-01-2013
I'm having difficulty getting the sc75 to pass through DIRECTV signal when the receiver is in standby.
I have the (HDMI out) to TV in the second slot. the 1st slot says HDMI (control).
Thoughts on what I need to do to receive the SAT signal without turning on the Receiver?
David Susilo's Avatar David Susilo 08:25 PM 12-01-2013
In the home menu, set HDMI pass thru to the input of your choice.
legatus's Avatar legatus 10:50 PM 12-01-2013
I have one comment and one question. I recently purchased the SC-79 to replace my dear departed Denon AVR-5800. I has been wonderful not only to get modern gear (I love those Class-D amps!) and multi-channel formats, but I have been extremely happy with the sound. MCACC calibration (at least on "Keep SP settings") came very close (just a few tweaks afterwards) to a very desirable sound- I had to tone down the bass in my small but treated 10x12 ft room. I just haven't seen the brightness that several have complained of- quite the opposite.

However, one thing I wish could be improved is the USB-DAC implementation. I think for a user hooking up a laptop (which is what I think they intended it to be used with), it is great. But I have an HTPC as a source, and even though I can use HDMI to pass music to the receiver, I would like to be able to send it to the USB-DAC for jitter-reduction. Unfortunately, I need the HDMI video going through the receiver from the HTPC to actually do anything with the HTPC (including installing the USB-DAC drivers). Also, unfortunately, when you are not on the USB-DAC input on the receiver, the computer can't see it- presumably it is not getting any power. When I am on the USB-DAC input, I have no HTPC display. My workaround is to use my Mhdt Labs USBridge going into Coax1. I can queue up the music player on the HTPC and then switch to the Coax1, press play and get glorious re-clocked PCM- but this makes the USB-DAC useless and the USBridge has no DSD capability (luckily I don't have any DSD files at this point). One way to make it all work would be to allow me to see HDMI1 video while listening to the USB-DAC. The receiver will pass through HDMI1 video when in standby, but can't pass it through if it is powered on unless on that one HDMI1 input. If I was designing it, I probably would make all video and audio inputs freely assignable (like Aventages) or would at least allow video pass through when on a non-video input (as if in standby).

As for my question(s): In Direct mode, is an analog signal (i.e. from a turntable) digitized and re-converted back to analog? I would assume it is if using EQ/S-wave, etc. or if in any Standard or Advanced Surr modes. What about just bass management? Is it then passing the analog direct and then sending ADC'd/DAC'd low-frequencies to the sub? I ask because I don't seem to be getting anything going to the sub in Pure (or rather Analog) Direct. My old AVR-5800 had bass management in the analog domain even in Pure Direct. When looking at the Audio parameters in Analog Direct, it has options for Memory Presets, Hibit32, upsampling, A.Scale, Dfilter, PQLS etc. (although the options for EQ and S-wave are gone) which seems odd for an Analog Direct mode. Are these dummy parameters while in Analog Direct? Also, it also has the LFE attenuation option, even though it doesn't seem to be using the sub. Just wondering aloud.

Regards,
Rob
ghostdog4's Avatar ghostdog4 05:20 AM 12-02-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Susilo View Post

In the home menu, set HDMI pass thru to the input of your choice.

Thank you.
legatus's Avatar legatus 11:26 AM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by legatus View Post

I have one comment and one question...
Interestingly, in Pure Direct all video processing and front display appear to be maintained. Another big difference from what I'm used to. So all kinds of video and audio processing and ADC/DAC activity are available and going on except Bass Management (ironically the only thing I would want in Pure Direct) and EQ in Analog (and Pure) Direct? Since it is possible to go Analog Direct (analog ins straight to the amps or is it?), I would think the wide variety of options available, both video and audio, in Pure Direct are a software/firmware decision by the designers. I guess I'm just curious about what is really going on inside the box- esp. having come from a 12-year old flagship which clearly did things differently.
LairdWilliams's Avatar LairdWilliams 01:11 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by legatus View Post

Interestingly, in Pure Direct all video processing and front display appear to be maintained. Another big difference from what I'm used to. So all kinds of video and audio processing and ADC/DAC activity are available and going on except Bass Management (ironically the only thing I would want in Pure Direct) and EQ in Analog (and Pure) Direct? Since it is possible to go Analog Direct (analog ins straight to the amps or is it?), I would think the wide variety of options available, both video and audio, in Pure Direct are a software/firmware decision by the designers. I guess I'm just curious about what is really going on inside the box- esp. having come from a 12-year old flagship which clearly did things differently.
What makes you believe that audio processing is happening in pure direct? Do you have access to some information from Pioneer about it?

The reason I ask is that the mere existence of an OSD is no indicator of the amount of processing going on, other than the video overlay.
legatus's Avatar legatus 01:47 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by LairdWilliams View Post

What makes you believe that audio processing is happening in pure direct? Do you have access to some information from Pioneer about it?

The reason I ask is that the mere existence of an OSD is no indicator of the amount of processing going on, other than the video overlay.

That is my question in a different way. In Pure Direct/Analog Direct, the OSD/front display options for EQ and S.Wave are removed and Phase Control does not function. They are not available or visible in Audio Parameters. However, just about everything else in Audio Parameters still are visible and selectable- and video processing is untouched and fully functional. Part of my question was whether or not these are dummy entries (i.e. they don't really do anything). Why remove some DSP parameters but not others? In Direct mode (not Pure Direct) with an analog source, can one disable EQ, S.Wave and Phase Control and still have the analog signal go from the RCA input to the amps? Or is it digitized no matter what in Direct? This has import not just for purely analog sources (like turntables) but for high-end digital sources (like the BDP-105 or fancier outboard DACs) which use higher-tier DAC stages than in the receiver, because one may be getting the receiver DSP/DACs no matter what (except Analog Direct which has no bass management). I'm just looking to find out what is actually happening to the audio signal in these modes because the manual is woefully un-descriptive. It is understood that the terms 'Pure Direct' and 'Direct' have no standardized meaning and each manufacturer is free to implement how they wish (or if they even use those terms at all). How it is really implemented by Pioneer in these excellent receivers is the heart of my questions.
flrun's Avatar flrun 05:52 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by legatus View Post

I have one comment and one question. I recently purchased the SC-79 to replace my dear departed Denon AVR-5800. I has been wonderful not only to get modern gear (I love those Class-D amps!) and multi-channel formats, but I have been extremely happy with the sound. MCACC calibration (at least on "Keep SP settings") came very close (just a few tweaks afterwards) to a very desirable sound- I had to tone down the bass in my small but treated 10x12 ft room. I just haven't seen the brightness that several have complained of- quite the opposite.

However, one thing I wish could be improved is the USB-DAC implementation. I think for a user hooking up a laptop (which is what I think they intended it to be used with), it is great. But I have an HTPC as a source, and even though I can use HDMI to pass music to the receiver, I would like to be able to send it to the USB-DAC for jitter-reduction. Unfortunately, I need the HDMI video going through the receiver from the HTPC to actually do anything with the HTPC (including installing the USB-DAC drivers). Also, unfortunately, when you are not on the USB-DAC input on the receiver, the computer can't see it- presumably it is not getting any power. When I am on the USB-DAC input, I have no HTPC display. My workaround is to use my Mhdt Labs USBridge going into Coax1. I can queue up the music player on the HTPC and then switch to the Coax1, press play and get glorious re-clocked PCM- but this makes the USB-DAC useless and the USBridge has no DSD capability (luckily I don't have any DSD files at this point). One way to make it all work would be to allow me to see HDMI1 video while listening to the USB-DAC. The receiver will pass through HDMI1 video when in standby, but can't pass it through if it is powered on unless on that one HDMI1 input. If I was designing it, I probably would make all video and audio inputs freely assignable (like Aventages) or would at least allow video pass through when on a non-video input (as if in standby).

As for my question(s): In Direct mode, is an analog signal (i.e. from a turntable) digitized and re-converted back to analog? I would assume it is if using EQ/S-wave, etc. or if in any Standard or Advanced Surr modes. What about just bass management? Is it then passing the analog direct and then sending ADC'd/DAC'd low-frequencies to the sub? I ask because I don't seem to be getting anything going to the sub in Pure (or rather Analog) Direct. My old AVR-5800 had bass management in the analog domain even in Pure Direct. When looking at the Audio parameters in Analog Direct, it has options for Memory Presets, Hibit32, upsampling, A.Scale, Dfilter, PQLS etc. (although the options for EQ and S-wave are gone) which seems odd for an Analog Direct mode. Are these dummy parameters while in Analog Direct? Also, it also has the LFE attenuation option, even though it doesn't seem to be using the sub. Just wondering aloud.

Regards,
Rob

Rob
I was reading your post and this particular line; I ask because I don't seem to be getting anything going to the sub in Pure (or rather Analog) Direct.

I have a SC77 and experienced that problem. Looking for a solution I came across this in a AVS thread, I formatted it to make easier to follow:

Press Receiver on the remote

Press: Standard - Dolby + Music

Press: Auto

Select: Direct


Select Pure Direct to go back to front speakers only

It didn't make sense to my logic because it sounds like you are playing your music in surround but I did it and checked all my speakers and the fronts and subs are the only ones on.
flrun's Avatar flrun 06:51 PM 12-03-2013
I have the SC-77 and found the sub does not work on standard definition channels, I replaced a Elite Vsx23 and it did work on that receiver.

I looked in the manual and contacted Pioneer support who eventually told me I need to have my receiver sent in for service. Here is the email.


When watching a movie on a Standard Definition channel I only get the front speakers I do not get the sub.
I realize the signal is not being received in 5.1 surround and the sub does work on HD channels but on my old VSX 23 Elite even on the SD channels the sub would work. Is there a setting I can change to get the sub to work on Standard Definition channels?

Pioneer - In the speaker setup change the subwoofer setting form YES over to PLUS and that will take care of it.

That did not work.

Pioneer - Looks like your Receiver will need to be checked by a service technician as the jacks should be sending signals to them with all sources when set to PLUS. Also make sure your receiver is not set to Direct or Pure Direct.


Has anyone else encountered this? I hope I do not need to return it, its only a couple of months old.

Thanks for any info,

Will
BIslander's Avatar BIslander 07:32 PM 12-03-2013
Stereo sources such as SD TV channels do not have LFE. The usual way to engage the sub with stereo sources is bass management. Set the speakers to Small and frequencies lower than the crossover get redirected from the full range channels to the sub. How are your speakers configured? How low is the crossover? If it is quite low, the sources you are playing may not have enough deep bass for much of anything to get sent to the sub.

The recommendation from support applies when your speakers are configured as Large. The Plus setting will then duplicate frequencies below the crossover so that they play in both the full range speakers and the sub.

You mention SD TV channels. What happens when you play other stereo sources such as a CD with lots of low bass?
flrun's Avatar flrun 07:56 PM 12-03-2013
All the speakers are on small and the sub is on Plus, from when I was emailing with Pioneer support.

I am not sure what you mean as far as how the speakers are configured? Unless you are referring to Small. I have a 7.2 setup with 2 Def Tech subs. The crossover is on 80Hz.
The subs also have volume control on them. I know the bass level is fine, it works in BD and HD channels just ask the neighbors.

Bass is as it is supposed to be on music, movies, everything else.
legatus's Avatar legatus 08:04 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrun View Post

Press: Auto

Select: Direct


Select Pure Direct to go back to front speakers only

Thanks, I'm aware that Pure Direct is just the fronts for stereo and that Direct will give me bass management. My concern is that I would like to preserve the analog signal from a turntable and still get some bass management. Despite several DSP options being apparently available in Analog Direct, I'm fairly sure it is a straight analog signal going through. I'm not sure Direct does that. I may contact Pioneer and see if they are willing to present some details about how it processes Direct and Pure Direct. If Direct preserves the analog signal (assuming EQ, etc. are turned off), then that is what I will use because it will allow me to move my speakers further from the back wall (where they are getting some bass reinforcement) and maybe add some soundstage depth. As of now, I'm getting adequate bass in Analog Direct by keeping the speakers closer to the wall. I'm more curious than anything because I want to know how things actually work and what they are actually doing to the signals input. If I'm receiving a digital signal, I am more than happy (ecstatic even!) with this receiver, probably because I personally don't mind DSPing the heck out of any digital signal. biggrin.gif
flrun's Avatar flrun 08:16 PM 12-03-2013
Legatus

More detail than what is on page 63 of the manual I take it? ( for the 77 ) If you get the info from Pioneer I would be curious to see what they say.
BIslander's Avatar BIslander 08:18 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrun View Post

All the speakers are on small and the sub is on Plus, from when I was emailing with Pioneer support.

I am not sure what you mean as far as how the speakers are configured? Unless you are referring to Small. I have a 7.2 setup with 2 Def Tech subs. The crossover is on 80Hz.
The subs also have volume control on them. I know the bass level is fine, it works in BD and HD channels just ask the neighbors.

Bass is as it is supposed to be on music, movies, everything else.
I do not own a Pioneer, but the usual meaning of Plus (and my recollection of reading Pioneer manuals in the past) is that it only comes into play when speakers are configured as Large. It's what Denon calls LFE + Main or what ifs commonly known as double bass.

I was not talking about the volume of your sub. Rather, I was asking whether the source material has much in the way of bass below the crossover.

Regardless, are you saying your sub is active with other stereo material, just not with SD TV as the source? If so, have you tried swapping inputs on the receiver to see whether the problem follows whatever input is associated with the SD TV or if it happrns with whatever material is using that one input?
flrun's Avatar flrun 08:40 PM 12-03-2013
It lets you change it to Plus whether the speakers are on small or large.

When you say, not with SD TV as the source I may not have been clear enough. I have DishNetwork and when I am on a HD channel the receiver automatically switches to surround, when I go to a SD channel it changes to stereo and of course, the bass shuts off. The Dish receiver to the SC77 is by HDMI using the SAT input on SC77.
I have not tried swapping inputs.
BIslander's Avatar BIslander 09:11 PM 12-03-2013
Just to confirm... If you play a CD or a movie with a stereo soundtrack, your sub is active. If so, that means your receiver is properly performing bass management to redirect low frequencies from Small speakers to the sub, at least on the input associated with your disc player.

But, when you watch an SD channel in stereo, the sub is not ever active. So, what's different? Swapping the inputs between the one that works and the one that doesn't will help isolate the cause of the problem.
legatus's Avatar legatus 10:00 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrun View Post

Legatus

More detail than what is on page 63 of the manual I take it? ( for the 77 ) If you get the info from Pioneer I would be curious to see what they say.

Yes, it is page 63 in the SC-79 manual as well. For Pure Direct, it says that it "plays back unmodified sound from source with only minimal digital treatment." That's it. I still haven't figured how 'unmodified' correlates with 'minimal digital treatment'. It seems like an oxymoron to me. What does the 'minimal digital treatment' entail? Clearly not simple bass management. For Direct, it says that it only adds MCACC calibration and Phase Control to Pure Direct. Unfortunately, since the description of Pure Direct is so unclear, Direct is by virtue also unclear. In fact, I don't think there is a meaningful difference between Direct and the Standard Stereo mode since Direct has all the DSP bells and whistles. Bear in mind, an AVR owner's manual being detailed and clear is extremely rare regardless of manufacturer so I don't see this as a "Pioneer" thing. smile.gif
legatus's Avatar legatus 10:13 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by flrun View Post

It lets you change it to Plus whether the speakers are on small or large.
This had me for a bit too. It does indeed let you select Small speakers and Plus on the subwoofer together, but, who knows, it may be another dummy setting that doesn't really do anything. Plus should only work with Large speakers. Small speakers should already be sending low frequencies to the sub. That said, if your speakers are set to Small, I don't know why any stereo input would not utilize the sub unless it had no sounds below 80Hz. Even if you were getting a Dolby Digital signal that only had L and R channels and an empty LFE (are you?), the low frequencies on the L/R should be redirected to the sub.
strawberryyogurt's Avatar strawberryyogurt 10:28 PM 12-03-2013
How do i select hdmi 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 on my remote control (pioneer elite sc77), especially hdmi 5678 without having to press the hdmi button to toggle between each one of those? It seems like the following buttons on the remote .... BD=hdmi 1, DVD=hdmi 2, CBL/SAT=hdmi 3, MHL=hdmi 5. How do I have a designated button for hdmi 6 7 8 and video (video=hdmi 4).

Note. I have been using my ipad icontrol av but would like to know about the remote itself.
legatus's Avatar legatus 10:44 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by strawberryyogurt View Post

How do i select hdmi 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 on my remote control (pioneer elite sc77), especially hdmi 5678 without having to press the hdmi button to toggle between each one of those? It seems like the following buttons on the remote .... BD=hdmi 1, DVD=hdmi 2, CBL/SAT=hdmi 3, MHL=hdmi 5. How do I have a designated button for hdmi 6 7 8 and video.

Note. I have been using my ipad icontrol av but would like to know about the remote itself.
Wow! I'm impressed if you have that many inputs! If using the OEM remote, the only thing I can think of is to assign whatever HDMI inputs you need to existing buttons' inputs on the input setup menu. If you are using HDMI 1 thru 4 (or whatever) for those, you may just run out of buttons. If I had that many inputs, I probably would get a fancy programmable universal remote. Then again, I use the CD button for my turntable (I have an outboard phono preamp). I also have it so that the 'Input Select' arrow buttons only bring up inputs that I have actually installed or in use.
strawberryyogurt's Avatar strawberryyogurt 11:20 PM 12-03-2013
Quote:
Originally Posted by legatus View Post

Wow! I'm impressed if you have that many inputs! If using the OEM remote, the only thing I can think of is to assign whatever HDMI inputs you need to existing buttons' inputs on the input setup menu. If you are using HDMI 1 thru 4 (or whatever) for those, you may just run out of buttons. If I had that many inputs, I probably would get a fancy programmable universal remote. Then again, I use the CD button for my turntable (I have an outboard phono preamp). I also have it so that the 'Input Select' arrow buttons only bring up inputs that I have actually installed or in use.

The question is how do I get into my setup menu and assign one of those buttons on the remote to specifically (in the below example) be HDMI 6 = xbox 360? I know I can simply hit the "hdmi" button on the remote to toggle between HDMI 5, 6, 7, 8 but it's difficult to tell since I usually have my pioneer receiver on standby mode. If I have it in standby mode, I don't think the "input select" arrow responds at all.

Note: My receiver is placed inside a "closet" / behind "closed door", so I can't really see what's going on without OSD (on screen display) on my TV.

In other words,
(A) can I assign the "NET" or "ADPT" button as one of the HDMI6, 7, or 8?
(B) is there a way for me to assign the OEM remote to press "HDMI" then "6" to bring up HDMI6, or press "HDMI" then "7" to bring up HDMI7, etc.?

1. BD = HDMI 1 = PS4
2. DVD = HDMI 2 = PS3
3. BDR/DVR = HDMI 4 = HTPC
4. SAT/CBL = HDMI 3 = Laptop
5. HDMI 5/MHL = nothing at this point
6. HDMI 6 = Xbox 360
7. HDMI 7 = nothing at this point
8. HDMI 8 = nothing at this point

I realized that the HDMI 5/MHL is actually on the front panel of the elite sc77 receiver. If I ever get a Wii-U or xbox one, these will need additional available HDMI slots.
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